The key to why most people who lose weight fail to maintain the weight loss

[Naam]

there was a time, many rainy seasons ago, when i was obsessed with weight control. being 1.83m my "fighting" weight was 78kg. i panicked whenever i saw the "8" on the scale which triggered most of the time a 3-5 day zero intake.

now, at adanced age, zero diet does not work anymore and my aim is not to panick but to aim seeing the "8" on my scale. in other words... the ~3kg i put on during the "festive" days (now @93kg) will take more than a month (perhaps two or even three) to get rid off with a rather moderate change of my eating habits.

yo-yo weight ±5kg is my partner since many years and i refuse to change my life style and waste precious life time on boring exercises or stupid diets.

[Jingthing]

A guaranteed three step plan to maintain weight loss:

1. Eat less than you did when you were fat.

2. Exercise more than when you were fat.

3. Repeat daily.

Roughly, that makes sense.

Roughly because the percentages would vary so just "less" isn't precise. It has to be monitored of course.

Also you don't really need to exercise more than before, if you compensate that with even fewer calories.

But still the overwhelming majority do fail with that long term.

The obesity scientist definition of long term in this context is five years.

Which relates to people referring to anecdotes, how many of those anecdotes are about significant numbers of people watched over five years.

I think popularly if a friend loses weight and keeps it off six months or a year, people think the battle is WON.

Nope, the vast majority of people like that will put on the weight again within five years. That is known.

The interesting thing I wanted to emphasize in this thread is the difference between losing weight and keeping it off.

It's known most fat people are capable of losing weight, often large amounts, so they DO succeed at that.

It's also known most fat people do not successfully perform the maintenance phase, long term, defined as five years minimum.

So there is a problem with that rest of your lifetime phase, a big problem, and people hoping for true success, do need to focus on what is statistically without a doubt, the least likely part for fat people to succeed at.

Going back to Gov. Huckabee, what could have communicated to him when he got down to his good weight that would have stopped his very visible failure?

He's a public figure, he talked a lot about obesity and his own weight loss, he had access to "experts", not a stupid man, how did it happen that he didn't know enough and/or couldn't succeed at maintenance? Many here might predictably say simple lack of will power. No doubt a factor, but I am guessing even this very informed man underestimated the challenges ahead. Figured, I won, I lost weight, time to party.

Don't even get me started about Oprah. Poor rich dear!

Another aspect of this is that many fat people will lose a chunk of weight, but not down to so called "ideal weight" and decide for whatever varied reasons that is their limit to lose weight. Those people are subject to the same issues for MAINTENANCE as people who have reduced to normal weight. Without changing the topic entirely, its interesting to note that the vast majority of morbidly obese people who get bariatric surgery and then lose weight do not actually lose to the point of not being obese at all anymore, but doctors still consider that a good outcome when starting at morbidly obese.

The point being I made the premise that it is easier for fat people to lose weight, even large amounts, (higher success rates) compared to long term maintenance, it is certainly NOT easy for VERY FAT people such as the morbidly obese to lose massive amounts of weight down to normal weight. In fact, obesity doctors would agree most won't ever accomplish that, with or without surgery.

I don't think most of us here are morbidly obese or ever have been, but if you are, even losing a good PERCENTAGE of that weight is a proven benefit, HEALTH-WISE.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Jingthing

[robblok]

there was a time, many rainy seasons ago, when i was obsessed with weight control. being 1.83m my "fighting" weight was 78kg. i panicked whenever i saw the "8" on the scale which triggered most of the time a 3-5 day zero intake.

now, at adanced age, zero diet does not work anymore and my aim is not to panick but to aim seeing the "8" on my scale. in other words... the ~3kg i put on during the "festive" days (now @93kg) will take more than a month (perhaps two or even three) to get rid off with a rather moderate change of my eating habits.

yo-yo weight ±5kg is my partner since many years and i refuse to change my life style and waste precious life time on boring exercises or stupid diets.

Yes Naam.. but you still keep it in check and change accordingly. You dont accept it if it goes up all the time. That is the whole point.

As for age and getting heavier.. sure that happens to some of us.

I am 1.80 cm.. and around 87 kg (i think that is even a bad BMI not that that means anything) Just as weight and height does not say much as 2 people could look totally different with the same numbers.

[Jingthing]

From the link supplied by RB before. This is a separate topic I think -- how to establish goals that are both ambitious AND realistic. Before I asserted fat people mostly CAN lose weight fairly easily and I believe that, but this is another wrinkle, the issue of the likelihood and difficulty level of being able to lose ALL the weight you might dream about. Definitely not as easy for everyone, particularly those starting very big.

This is linked though to this topic in another way. If many people are setting loss goals that are too ambitious based on their personal factors and fail at that and get frustrated, INSTEAD of being OK with the non-dream results and going to sincere MAINTENANCE mode, they would tend to go into GIVE UP yoyo time mode. So this is important.

I'm not sure you need to start out lowering your loss ambitions (for people smaller than morbidly obese anyway) but I think down the road it makes sense to be open minded about accepting a stopping OK WITH IT point if your experience shows making the dream level just isn't happening. Easier said than done.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/guide/ideal-weight-or-happy-weight

How Much Should I Weigh?

Most people overestimate how much weight they can lose, which leads to frustration, says Blatner. To find your happy or healthy weight, Blatner suggests looking back on your weight history as an adult and identifying a weight you were able to maintain fairly easily.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Jingthing

[robblok]

From the link supplied by RB before. This is a separate topic I think -- how to establish goals that are both ambitious AND realistic. Before I asserted fat people mostly CAN lose weight fairly easily and I believe that, but this is another wrinkle, the issue of the likelihood and difficulty level of being able to lose ALL the weight you might dream about. Definitely not as easy for everyone, particularly those starting very big.

This is linked though to this topic in another way. If many people are setting loss goals that are too ambitious based on their personal factors and fail at that and get frustrated, INSTEAD of being OK with the non-dream results and going to sincere MAINTENANCE mode, they would tend to go into GIVE UP yoyo time mode. So this is important.

I'm not sure you need to start out lowering your loss ambitions (for people smaller than morbidly obese anyway) but I think down the road it makes sense to be open minded about accepting a stopping OK WITH IT point if your experience shows making the dream level just isn't happening. Easier said than done.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/guide/ideal-weight-or-happy-weight

How Much Should I Weigh?

Most people overestimate how much weight they can lose, which leads to frustration, says Blatner. To find your happy or healthy weight, Blatner suggests looking back on your weight history as an adult and identifying a weight you were able to maintain fairly easily.

Of course set realistic goals (though I like to push myself). Looking back at your weight history will give you a idea that is one thing for sure. nothing wrong with that. You can always decide to go on if you reach the goal or not.

[robblok]

A reason maintenance mode is hard might be because you reached your goal and you relax.

I always look for a new challenge as i feel its easier to go for something as to maintain something. But i realize one thing.. I am fighting an uphill battle that I will loose (age) Does not mean I would grow fat period.. but will have to accept you cant be in top shape always. Though there are some great examples out there.. and I hope they are not genetic freaks.

[Jingthing]

I think most fat people deep down dream to be the same size as the fit 19 year old they never were! OK, some were.

[robblok]

I think most fat people deep down dream to be the same size as the fit 19 year old they never were! OK, some were.

We all have dreams.. sometimes you can get to them other times you cant. Going from obese to a fit 19 year old.. maybe.. but certainly not for most of them and certainly not without some professional help and a huge bit of comitment. (some good but expensive coaches out there)

But success motivates the more you loose the more you want to loose. Just like failure discourages that is why you are right with conservative goals (but challenging)

[Jingthing]

Personally I am doing my own thing. I can't really recommend it to anyone else. It isn't very realistic because I have been a lifetime yoyo obesity case, even obese as a young child, but shortish periods of pretty good weight. Sensible counselors would probably say don't be as ambitious, don't ever expect to be normal weight. I still have a very LONG TERM goal of either higher level normal chart weight or at worst lower level overweight BUT doing it super slowly, yes, over YEARS. In a weird way my current "program" is not a whole lot different than a future maintenance mode might be. Which is kind of the point for me. I want to eat and moderate exercise in a lifetime sustainable way. Right now, hopefully for years, I'm trying to make that include minor weight loss. It's possible the weight loss will stop and then I'll have to think hard about the next step. Perhaps better to think about it now. I guess it would mean considering accepting my current level which represents I think a reduction of about 15 percent. One benefit of the slow pace is my skin is adjusting well enough which is a worry for older people if you do RAPID loss. My food intake is about as minimal as I can accept, I don't want to make starvation my normal as I think that would backfire, and increasing exercise is not my style, besides I believe food intake is the more important part anyway. Please nobody lecture to me to exercise more, I do not welcome that. I already know what exercise is and the benefits and I have made my own choices about it.

I'm not anywhere near ready to accept my current 15 percent loss as my level.

BTW, one reason I have become passionate about the subject of obesity social policy is based on my own experience. Children don't have the same free will as adults. I was obese as a child before I knew what hit me. It's been a negative factor for me all my life, health and socially. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I think it is adults and society's obligation to try to figure out what more can be done to prevent more children from becoming obese in the first place. They deserve at least that fighting chance to start their lives.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Jingthing

[robblok]

Personally I doing my own thing. I can't really recommend it to anyone else. It isn't very realistic because I have been a lifetime yoyo obesity case, even obese as a young child, but shortish periods of pretty good weight. I still have a very LONG TERM goal of either higher level normal chart weight or at worst lower level overweight BUT doing it super slowly, yes, over YEARS. In a weird way it's not a whole lot different than a future maintenance mode might be. Which is kind of the point for me. I want to eat and exercise in a lifetime sustainable way. Right way I'm trying to make that include minor weight loss. It's possible the weight loss will stop and then I'll have to think hard about the next step. Perhaps better to think about it now. I guess it would mean considering accepting my current level which represents I think a reduction of about 15 percent. I'm not anywhere near ready to accept that as my level.

15 percent is not chopped liver like some on this forum would say.

I have no idea how old you are but maybe a spurt and then maintenance might be good as age does seem to slow things down.

But if your not ready to accept where you are then just go on till you don't loose anymore and then make some other changes you can live with.

[h90]

From the link supplied by RB before. This is a separate topic I think -- how to establish goals that are both ambitious AND realistic. Before I asserted fat people mostly CAN lose weight fairly easily and I believe that, but this is another wrinkle, the issue of the likelihood and difficulty level of being able to lose ALL the weight you might dream about. Definitely not as easy for everyone, particularly those starting very big.

This is linked though to this topic in another way. If many people are setting loss goals that are too ambitious based on their personal factors and fail at that and get frustrated, INSTEAD of being OK with the non-dream results and going to sincere MAINTENANCE mode, they would tend to go into GIVE UP yoyo time mode. So this is important.

I'm not sure you need to start out lowering your loss ambitions (for people smaller than morbidly obese anyway) but I think down the road it makes sense to be open minded about accepting a stopping OK WITH IT point if your experience shows making the dream level just isn't happening. Easier said than done.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/guide/ideal-weight-or-happy-weight

How Much Should I Weigh?

Most people overestimate how much weight they can lose, which leads to frustration, says Blatner. To find your happy or healthy weight, Blatner suggests looking back on your weight history as an adult and identifying a weight you were able to maintain fairly easily.

Well I disagree. You need ambitious goals. If you weight say 120 kg and your reasonable goal is to weight 100 kg. Which will fix a lot problems, you'll walk easier your back will hurt less etc.. But what goal is it? No one will mention it, you are still fat.

If your goal is to get 70 kg and have the abs so that you can show them on the beach, than you have a real goal.

You may not get it.....but it is worth to try....being a bit less fat to help my heart and back is reasonable but not motivating.....at least it wouldn't motivate me.

[Jingthing]

Well, don't think there is a right answer for EVERYONE.

Myself, I have set ambitious goals but tempered with realism that of GOING SLOWLY.

I think it's rare for most people to actually consciously get behind this GOING SLOWLY thing that I am doing, so not for everyone.

I think the point is there is risk in being too ambitious because if you fail because that disappointment could set a person up for another trip on the yoyo.

This whole game is psychologically tricky.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Jingthing

[robblok]

From the link supplied by RB before. This is a separate topic I think -- how to establish goals that are both ambitious AND realistic. Before I asserted fat people mostly CAN lose weight fairly easily and I believe that, but this is another wrinkle, the issue of the likelihood and difficulty level of being able to lose ALL the weight you might dream about. Definitely not as easy for everyone, particularly those starting very big.

This is linked though to this topic in another way. If many people are setting loss goals that are too ambitious based on their personal factors and fail at that and get frustrated, INSTEAD of being OK with the non-dream results and going to sincere MAINTENANCE mode, they would tend to go into GIVE UP yoyo time mode. So this is important.

I'm not sure you need to start out lowering your loss ambitions (for people smaller than morbidly obese anyway) but I think down the road it makes sense to be open minded about accepting a stopping OK WITH IT point if your experience shows making the dream level just isn't happening. Easier said than done.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/guide/ideal-weight-or-happy-weight

How Much Should I Weigh?

Most people overestimate how much weight they can lose, which leads to frustration, says Blatner. To find your happy or healthy weight, Blatner suggests looking back on your weight history as an adult and identifying a weight you were able to maintain fairly easily.

Well I disagree. You need ambitious goals. If you weight say 120 kg and your reasonable goal is to weight 100 kg. Which will fix a lot problems, you'll walk easier your back will hurt less etc.. But what goal is it? No one will mention it, you are still fat.

If your goal is to get 70 kg and have the abs so that you can show them on the beach, than you have a real goal.

You may not get it.....but it is worth to try....being a bit less fat to help my heart and back is reasonable but not motivating.....at least it wouldn't motivate me.

Goals depend on the person.. some get depressed if they don't make them. Others need ambitious goals.

I know that I am looking at some new goals (either more muscle or less fat) because I am one of those who would get bored of maintaining the status quo.

I think this all really depends on the personality of the person you are dealing with.

[David48]

I am not insulting you at all you just take it that way. you are also editing quotes of me and that is against regulations.

...

You are very much insulting me. You have done this countless times on the fat forum. You obviously disagree with my POV and I think you actually don't even understand it (perhaps a language barrier).

I would like to inform you I have broken no rules with my edits. SNIPPETS unless used maliciously to change meaning within the snippets are not only allowed but encouraged. Many people don't know that. You see if everyone always included all posts, it would waste so much space. There is no need to show an entire post when you are only replying to the INCLUDED part of it. Cheers.

It is wong if it takes a post out of context and that is what you always do with my posts.

I disagree with your POV but you seem to think that anyone disagreeing with your POV is bullying you. Bringing counter arguments is bullying.

Shooting down other arguments or not even going into them.. that is your style.

Rob, mate, your English is fine, comprehensible, articulate and your arguments, that I've read recently, make perfect sense.

Plus, you have the (relatively) recent experience of having to shed a reasonable percentage of your body weight.

Your posts are indeed positive, because you have a positive story to tell ... as opposed to those who seem offer up scientific theories as why the possible is impossible.

.

[Jingthing]

From the link supplied by RB before. This is a separate topic I think -- how to establish goals that are both ambitious AND realistic. Before I asserted fat people mostly CAN lose weight fairly easily and I believe that, but this is another wrinkle, the issue of the likelihood and difficulty level of being able to lose ALL the weight you might dream about. Definitely not as easy for everyone, particularly those starting very big.

This is linked though to this topic in another way. If many people are setting loss goals that are too ambitious based on their personal factors and fail at that and get frustrated, INSTEAD of being OK with the non-dream results and going to sincere MAINTENANCE mode, they would tend to go into GIVE UP yoyo time mode. So this is important.

I'm not sure you need to start out lowering your loss ambitions (for people smaller than morbidly obese anyway) but I think down the road it makes sense to be open minded about accepting a stopping OK WITH IT point if your experience shows making the dream level just isn't happening. Easier said than done.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/guide/ideal-weight-or-happy-weight

How Much Should I Weigh?

Most people overestimate how much weight they can lose, which leads to frustration, says Blatner. To find your happy or healthy weight, Blatner suggests looking back on your weight history as an adult and identifying a weight you were able to maintain fairly easily.

Well I disagree. You need ambitious goals. If you weight say 120 kg and your reasonable goal is to weight 100 kg. Which will fix a lot problems, you'll walk easier your back will hurt less etc.. But what goal is it? No one will mention it, you are still fat.

If your goal is to get 70 kg and have the abs so that you can show them on the beach, than you have a real goal.

You may not get it.....but it is worth to try....being a bit less fat to help my heart and back is reasonable but not motivating.....at least it wouldn't motivate me.

Goals depend on the person.. some get depressed if they don't make them. Others need ambitious goals.

I know that I am looking at some new goals (either more muscle or less fat) because I am one of those who would get bored of maintaining the status quo.

I think this all really depends on the personality of the person you are dealing with.

Sure but as that link suggested the actual level of realism for a person's goal can objectively be related to the individuals specific health and obesity history. For example, a morbidly obese person who decides I need to have a 30 inch waist, given the reality of the odds of that, an obesity specialist would know are very very poor even with surgery, it could be a mistake to begin with that frame of mind. I don't disagree there is a personality factor but I think there is an objective reality as well. Obviously if a person has that frame of mind, an objectively unrealistic goal, that's their business, they can't usually be lectured into not having it. I can relate to this issue because I think my own goal might be on the unrealistic side given my history (but not radically so, I know I will never be like a skinny young man), but I am set on that being my actual goal and I wouldn't care what any counselor told me about being more realistic.

It reminds me a bit of a cosmetic surgery kind of situation where a customer says make me look like a movie star, and the surgeon says, that's not ever gonna happen with your bones, buddy, but I can make you look less like Frankenstein, and the patient says OK, that's better than nothing. Because it's different. There the doctor does it to you. In weight loss and maintenance, no matter what help we might get, WE do it. So following the analogy, we can still be expecting to be a Movie Star when we're no movie star!

Edited January 12, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

This thread now seems to be about BOTH the challenges of weight loss maintenance subject from the OP and also about issues and risks when setting weight loss level goals.

As the OP, I say OK, why not, two for one, they kind of are related anyway ...

Especially in the sense that if you do lose weight, at SOME POINT, whether at your dream goal, or something not so dreamy, you're faced with the challenge of keeping off what you DID lose. Which is a lifetime challenge in the case you succeed.

So the weight loss phase is a shorter term thing (in my case, not so short! ), the successful maintenance phase is as long as your life, hopefully longer than it would have been without the weight loss.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

OK, I have what might be a fun participatory exercise. For all really, the obese, the never obese, the formerly obese, people who have never posted on the Fat forum before ... anyone.

To play, you have to go along with accepting the hypothetical example, whether you think it's realistic or not.

It's just a kind of test for discussion purposes.

Referring back to this link:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2011/12/29/the_new_york_times_magazine_the_fat_trap_and_the_impossibility_of_lasting_weight_loss.html

Supposing you were at a "happy" weight BUT in order to avoid gaining weight you needed to:

1. Restrict your calories to a starvation level of 500 per day for the rest of your life and also be EXTREMELY obsessive about food as from the link for the rest of your life:

This woman says that she is “always aware of food,” weighs herself every morning, weighs all her food, writes down everything she eats, counts every calorie and gram of protein that passes her lips, exercises from 100 to 120 minutes six or seven days a week, calculates exactly how many calories she burns during exercise, and avoids junk food, bread, pasta, and dairy.

2. Do lots of exercise, at least as much as someone who eats only 500 calories could do. Please don't get all anal about exactly how much exercise, you get the idea, don't you, it's just for the purpose of this hypothetical question.

QUESTION: Would you be willing to live the rest of your life like that OR would you choose no, I can't live like that and accept weight gain instead?

MY ANSWER: NO WAY!

I could not live like that for the rest of my life. I would NOT be willing to do that! That's too severe. While I have a strong commitment to improving my health and weight, the trade off of that regime is just too much.

What is YOUR answer? Please be honest. If you can't accept the boundaries of the hypothetical, then you're not playing!

Be clear, I am not suggesting for a moment that ALL successful maintainers need to be this restrictive, but article suggest that some actually do. Percentage-wise I have no idea. Personally I can even lose weight being much less restrictive than that, but again, this is just a test.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Jingthing

[h90]

This thread now seems to be about BOTH the challenges of weight loss maintenance subject from the OP and also about issues and risks when setting weight loss level goals.

As the OP, I say OK, why not, two for one, they kind of are related anyway ...

Especially in the sense that if you do lose weight, at SOME POINT, whether at your dream goal, or something not so dreamy, you're faced with the challenge of keeping off what you DID lose. Which is a lifetime challenge in the case you succeed.

So the weight loss phase is a shorter term thing (in my case, not so short! ), the successful maintenance phase is as long as your life, hopefully longer than it would have been without the weight loss.

how to maintain is topic that makes me a headache......

I went down 20 kg very fast......Diet the no carbs way is simple....eat no carbs or better don't eat anything.....Than I started to lift weights and the first problems began.

Lift weights, build some muscles needs a balance of things. While first it was easy for eat as less as possible you don't need to count any calories....

I fall below my minimum requirement of loosing 0.1 kg per day. Now I consider to relax it and focus more on building muscles, by keeping the weight constant or even accept a minimal increase. This is already a fleeing the problem because if I would have reached my target weight I wouldn't know how to maintain it. So I replace the diet with the muscle building task just to run away from the maintain thing.

I am sure I am unable to eat moderate without target. If I want to reach something I put all my willpower into it. But maintain something is not something I am good at.

That is kind of a problem....

[robblok]

JT

I call B.S on the 500 calories a day that i looked it up even in the death camps they got around 1.300-1.700 carlories a day

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/auconditions.html

I have posted a link before about the under reporting of calories by obese before.

500 calories.. no way not realistic and certainly not needed either.

Edited January 12, 2014 by robblok

[weary]

The fact is you don't value anything that says it can be done. You love blaming outside stuff all the time.

...

I would like to ask that you stop insulting me and trying to make this so personal, in a way its actually a kind of BULLYING.

I never said it can't be done or that people shouldn't try. In fact I EXPLICITLY said the opposite. I said it is very hard and I supported credible sources about the reasons. You don't have to agree of course, not saying that you do.

Motivation can come in many forms, but in my experience, if we are first taught that most people fail at what we are about to do, there is a significant number of people with low self confidence who will take the statistics to mean they must be doomed, too, and give up before even trying.

An attitude that focuses on enabling and encouraging people has always, in my life, proved way more effective than the information about how difficult stuff is. Statistics are useful and interesting for many purposes, but they only point to probability, and never ever determine individual outcomes.

At the end of the day, no matter what one is trying to achieve, success lies in the keeping keeping on, and seeing each failure as temporary, transient and interesting, rather than as a judgement about a lack in ability or character. Anyone who has ever succeeded in doing something difficult will be able to tell you that much.

I managed to quit smoking after 15 years' addiction, and have lost 17 kgs in the past 3 years after being obese and sedentary for 10 years. I am not finding it requires an extensive effort to keep up my new weight - but an effort of some kind is necessary, for sure.

Just another anecdote, but my hunch is it would be more productive to pump those who succeeded for info about what they did rather than reading statistics about those who failed.

[robblok]

JT,

To add.. 500 calories is totally unrealistic and unless done in a laboratory I don't believe one bit of it. Here an other nice bit about starvation in the famous Minnesota experiment .

You can even drop some calories because you are talking about a female not male but 500 calories is death

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment

Here a bit about under reporting of calories and how it affects studies

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-12-calorie-under-reporting-affects-national-obesity.html

[David48]

Motivation can come in many forms, but in my experience, if we are first taught that most people fail at what we are about to do, there is a significant number of people with low self confidence who will take the statistics to mean they must be doomed, too, and give up before even trying.

An attitude that focuses on enabling and encouraging people has always, in my life, proved way more effective than the information about how difficult stuff is. Statistics are useful and interesting for many purposes, but they only point to probability, and never ever determine individual outcomes.

At the end of the day, no matter what one is trying to achieve, success lies in the keeping keeping on, and seeing each failure as temporary, transient and interesting, rather than as a judgement about a lack in ability or character. Anyone who has ever succeeded in doing something difficult will be able to tell you that much.

I managed to quit smoking after 15 years' addiction, and have lost 17 kgs in the past 3 years after being obese and sedentary for 10 years. I am not finding it requires an extensive effort to keep up my new weight - but an effort of some kind is necessary, for sure.

Just another anecdote, but my hunch is it would be more productive to pump those who succeeded for info about what they did rather than reading statistics about those who failed.

That Sir ... is a great post ...

.

[Briggsy]

I did about 3 months of strict calorie counting. The strict part was the counting not so much the consuming. It was rather time consuming.

I aimed for 2000 calories a day. I usually ended up consuming about 2200 - 2300 calories a day.

I did at least half an hour's cardio 5 or 6 days a week, often a lot more exercise at the gym.

I lost a lot of weight.

I stopped counting and shortly after some of the weight came back.

For me strict counting seems to work. You gotta count.

[robblok]

I did about 3 months of strict calorie counting. The strict part was the counting not so much the consuming. It was rather time consuming.

I aimed for 2000 calories a day. I usually ended up consuming about 2200 - 2300 calories a day.

I did at least half an hour's cardio 5 or 6 days a week, often a lot more exercise at the gym.

I lost a lot of weight.

I stopped counting and shortly after some of the weight came back.

For me strict counting seems to work. You gotta count.

You got to do what works for you.. for me counting worked too. I stopped but kept eating my meals (i weigh my oats my meats ect) I dont count anymore as i keep the amounts similar. If i were to gain weight i might count to see if things slipped in.

For some it takes a bit more effort as others but do i think this is too much to do.. I dont but it might be hard if you want to eat out a lot.

Oh i always worked out hard 4 times a week for around an hour 45-60 minutes of heavy lifting.

When i was loosing weight i added a lot of cardio.. now not so much.

[tingtong]

well, i like the idea of "trigger weight".

but i like it, as a number not to go above, possible ever, vs. trying to go bellow constantly.

the said truth is, that often ppl dont pay attention to weight till it is too late, and then just let it go.

[robblok]

well, i like the idea of "trigger weight".

but i like it, as a number not to go above, possible ever, vs. trying to go bellow constantly.

the said truth is, that often ppl dont pay attention to weight till it is too late, and then just let it go.

Yes that is the whole point why i step on the scales a lot. How can i know where I am without weighing. How you interpret a trigger weight for yourself that is your choice.

You are right if you don't pay attention for a long while and then look at your weight and see how much you gained and loose all hope and give up.. it happens more as you think.

[Jingthing]

JT

I call B.S on the 500 calories a day that i looked it up even in the death camps they got around 1.300-1.700 carlories a day

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/auconditions.html

I have posted a link before about the under reporting of calories by obese before.

500 calories.. no way not realistic and certainly not needed either.

I'll put you down as a no then.

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[robblok]

JT

I call B.S on the 500 calories a day that i looked it up even in the death camps they got around 1.300-1.700 carlories a day

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/auconditions.html

I have posted a link before about the under reporting of calories by obese before.

500 calories.. no way not realistic and certainly not needed either.

I'll put you down as a no then.

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That is what i mean with countering with real facts. I just proven that 500 cals is impossible and you keep on going on with it without even looking into my arguments. You love to ignore all facts and counters that don't support your evidence.

[Jingthing]

It was a hypothetical question. Please again stop insulting me.

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[robblok]

It was a hypothetical question. Please again stop insulting me.

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It was a foolish question, as its impossible. If you want people to participate use some real numbers. Smart people don't like to participate in a exercise in futility. Also most of the people on this forum are male, they automatically consume even more as females.

If you want to set an experiment that is representative look at real numbers and people would participate, but I guess that was not the objective of the question. You wanted no's