Jump to content

Criteria for issuing permits to foreign teachers to be standardised, made stricter: Education Min


webfact

Recommended Posts

Not only would a majority of English teachers lose their jobs but there would be a ripple effect whereby a flood of experienced teachers with degrees would be flooding into surrounding countries as they are no longer allowed to work in Thailand.

Edited by alex88
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 139
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

If the same applies across the board to Thai teachers too, a lot of them from private schools, who are also underqualified, will also lose their jobs.

As I said before licensed teachers from western countries will not come to teacher classes of 50-60 students in unairconditioned classrooms for 30K a month. Forget it. This proposal will not fly. Maybe they are preparing for AEC and plan to have only non-native speakers and employ them on bargain basement salaries. After all, Dr Seri said asians are smarter than whites blink.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really wish people without degrees would stop crying about how they are being put upon and disenfranchaised. A degree has been a standard of entry to most jobs in the West for decades. Why on earth would it not be a requirement in academics?

Like my seventh grade teacher told me about math, if you would put the same effort into doing it as you do avoiding it you'd understand it.

You people are at the end of your rope, working in Thailand, illegally and want the system to make exceptions in what are common standards because you are such a brilliant teacher - but not brilliant or dilligent enough to get a bachelors degree.

I have a degree in an academic subject and studying for TCT tests. Yeah, there is something to being a teacher other than being able to "do the drill". Teaching is perhaps the one job that everyone thinks they can do naturally.

The best judge if you are a non degreed teacher is multiple years teaching at the same school with wp in bkk. Anything short of that and you are just fooling yourself.

Try the low end schools in Cambodia. You are done.

Stop trying to rationalize to people that have achieved their degrees that you deserve to be included in the club, just because. You don't.

College graduate is a standard for everything these days. What it shows if nothing else is diligence and determination. It also proves as fact you have studied in relation to English:

These are basics of any decent liberal arts BA. The diploma certifies you know this stuff.

Composition, Adv Comp

English

Literature

Humanities

Logic and critical thinking

In my major, tons of reading and writing

Senior paper

Teaching at this juncture will never, ever be reduced to "a job". If anything, it has been going in the opposite direction, for years. You have done nothing to assist yourself in this regard save for whining about how experience trumps all.

The only people that ever and I do mean ever, routinely slag degrees are the people that don't have one.

Move on. Move out, really.

I think you are missing the point of the OP. If they go ahead with the new proposal, your degree won't be enough. You will need a teaching license from your home country. I think you are probably an excellent teacher but these proposed rules wouldn't let you or I teach in Thailand with just our BA's and the TCT tests.

I don't know that that is exactly correct. According to the OP:

to have obtained a teaching permit from abroad or obtained an education certificate that required at least one year of study or a degree in another field with at least 24 units in teaching courses from an institute certified by the Teachers' Council of Thailand or that country's public sector, or authorised teaching profession agency while also obtaining at least one year of teaching in a school;

The 'or' allows some wiggle room. The changes are not all that great, but the idea of standardizing them is. Right now the TC is fairly consistent, but the Ministry of Labor isn't.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes the word 'or' provides a few options but each of those options is essentially 1 year of Western teaching training. Even the non teaching degree part requires that degree to have involved 24 units (about 1 year?) of teacher training.

However you look at it the thing that is implied is that somebody with a non teaching degree and a CELTA certificate will not be qualified to work in Thailand.

Edited by alex88
Link to comment
Share on other sites

At this stage they are talking about draft proposals which may or may not be modified, which may or may not be accepted; if they are accepted there will inevitably be tweaks before they're approved. So trying to predict the fine detail of the consequences at this stage of the game is a bit futile, though it does make for a lot of TV fun.

But looking at the bigger picture, the writing's been on the wall in LARGE BOLD LETTERS for quite a while now. The MoE is raising the bar for foreign teachers - as it has done for the visa-runners, as it will do for the retirees - 100% guaranteed.

And whether you do it now or later you will need to be a professionally qualifed teacher: ie a Bachelor's in another subject plus a 1 year post-grad in Education ; or a Bachelor's in Education. This is really not a big deal for entry to a profession.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chances are that by the time prospective teachers go back and get full teaching qualifications in their home country they will need to work there for a while to deal with the huge University debt they acquired and maybe by the time they are ready to come back to Thailand they will have other priorities and won't come.

Seems likely all the decent NES teachers will be replaced by cheap Filipino teachers.

Edited by alex88
Link to comment
Share on other sites

At this stage they are talking about draft proposals which may or may not be modified, which may or may not be accepted; if they are accepted there will inevitably be tweaks before they're approved. So trying to predict the fine detail of the consequences at this stage of the game is a bit futile, though it does make for a lot of TV fun.

But looking at the bigger picture, the writing's been on the wall in LARGE BOLD LETTERS for quite a while now. The MoE is raising the bar for foreign teachers - as it has done for the visa-runners, as it will do for the retirees - 100% guaranteed.

And whether you do it now or later you will need to be a professionally qualifed teacher: ie a Bachelor's in another subject plus a 1 year post-grad in Education ; or a Bachelor's in Education. This is really not a big deal for entry to a profession.

Not a big deal to spend $15,000 on a 1 year post grad education when the salary you earn after it is decent but to spend that kind of money to then go and work in Thailand for $1000 a month is a bit rough.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

At this stage they are talking about draft proposals which may or may not be modified, which may or may not be accepted; if they are accepted there will inevitably be tweaks before they're approved. So trying to predict the fine detail of the consequences at this stage of the game is a bit futile, though it does make for a lot of TV fun.

But looking at the bigger picture, the writing's been on the wall in LARGE BOLD LETTERS for quite a while now. The MoE is raising the bar for foreign teachers - as it has done for the visa-runners, as it will do for the retirees - 100% guaranteed.

And whether you do it now or later you will need to be a professionally qualifed teacher: ie a Bachelor's in another subject plus a 1 year post-grad in Education ; or a Bachelor's in Education. This is really not a big deal for entry to a profession.

Not a big deal to spend $15,000 on a 1 year post grad education when the salary you earn after it is decent but to spend that kind of money to then go and work in Thailand for $1000 a month is a bit rough.

I can't comment on the cost of a 1 yr postgrad in your country.

But an investment in professional qualifications always pays off imho, and not just financially: it opens many doors, doors somebody might not even know about when they're an undergrad. It also opens minds.

The equation really isn't about how much to invest to work in Thailand; it's the price for joining a profession. You can use those qualifications anywhere; and they will take you as high as you want to go.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you ignore negative things they don't exist. It's the Thai way biggrin.png

And now they're ignoring unqualified arrogant foreigners; excellent.

I see where you were coming from now as the post before mine seems to have been removed so the context of my post was lost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We all seem to agree, the system is broken. Continuing in the same vein of a sporadic few minutes of English twice weekly taught by a dubiously qualified English-speaking foreigner will never fix it. Attempting to get better qualified teachers is a step in the right direction, but so would increasing the English language contact-time and a permanent mind-set correction on the need for English-language capability among the Thais.

The entire structure of English language education in Thailand needs to change. Teaching English as a foreign language should be limited to the first few years in schools. After that, all courses need to be taught in English. To do this, of course, Thai teachers need to learn and to teach in English. However, that too requires a mind-set change, especially for Thai teachers.

The irony here is that there would still be a need for the dubiously qualified NES teachers--if for nothing more than teaching the Thai teachers.

Why is it I feel I am speaking fantasy?

I agree with everything you say except the "dubiously qualified foreigner" part.

My role is conversational English, listening and speaking. As an educated, degree holder (not education) , mature, Native English Speaker I am helping my students towards the goal of improving their language skill. I'm perfectly happy to take the tests etc to satisfy the Teacher's Council . The new rules as proposed would kick me out.

Thailand needs three times the NES teachers, one third the class size, and tons more contact time with the NES. It also needs to treat school more seriously. Student here spend more time practicing their singing for the grad ceremony, sports days, and camping days than they do in class studying to graduate.

I don't know how you can disagree with fact. I am not trying to paint all foreign English teachers with the same brush. I recognize some of the foreign English teachers are qualified and some of the unqualified ones are good teachers, but neither situation negates the fact that foreign English teachers are hired with dubious credentials, under equally dubious qualification standards, by even more dubious teacher contracting agencies. True or not?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There maybe teachers with dubious qualifications, but it far from easy. The degree alone is not generally acceptable, you must have the transcript and those are a lot more difficult to forge. It's not only the MOE that reviews the credentials, but the Teacher's Council and the Ministry of Labor (prior to issuing a work permit).

It is far easier now for someone to work without a degree and fly under the radar than it is to use a dodgy certificate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good, we need to get rid of the trash teachers who come here for a few months or want to stay to take care of their bar girl friend. I am happy to see this. But they also need to raise the salary of those who met the qualifications maybe even double it.

I really wish you wouldn't look at it this way for there are and have been thousands of very committed teachers struggling with trying to keep their jobs year after year because of the overpowering paperwork required time and time again to stay employed. There are those of us who have been teaching here for many years and now we are once we have given another yet another hurdle to jump instead of leaving us alone to get on with the matter at hand our job of trying to get our students to communicate using the target language which is English.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I cannot fault anyone with thinking they may deserve more and in doing so may well better themselves I'm afraid in this case I simply disagree.If I happen to be one who stayed in school rather than follow my peers footsteps and enter into the building trade and complete a degree and wrote a thesis on why the Thai school system fails the students I doubt that if Krusapa or the MOE got wind of it would they would readily grant me teaching privileges.

Granted there are a percentage of defunct teachers that once hailed the bar and needed to work in Thailand to remain there however there are those who after beginning to teach English here felt a great comfort in it enough to leave the drinking behind and settle down to teaching and become dedicated teachers while learning about all the difficulties teaching entails and there are many, to become efficient teachers adored by their students and respected by the other teachers and staff.

An even greater percentage came to Thailand and did not spend time in the bars but traveled around Thailand and Southeast Asia and they too needed a way to remain in this country they fell in love with. Some stayed on for many years.Some found they couldn't do it for what ever reasons.Many knew that a TEFL was required and this goes at a cost of about 1000 euro to begin with.Others came with the intent of teaching.

Now lets look at the decision that has recently been made. Why was there need of a change?Who said it wasn't working?I would have to say the greatest percentage to addressing a need to change were also the biggest contributors to bring to light that there was a problem to begin with and I dare say this same percentage played a huge part criticizing why there was a problem with a problem in the Thai education system in the first place. And who were they? I believe it was simply people concerned with the resulting failure of Thai students across the nation.Your guess is as good as mine as to who these people were.

I feel that from what I know now from living here and teaching that there is a lack of a tendency to admit fault or to even say " No.I disagree with your idea"And in doing this or rather not doing this, no ideas can really get bounced around leaving a truly inspirational or simple logical idea not even voiced at the table.Hence you have one person making all the decisions without a clue or care in the world that someone could be sitting right in front of them with the answer which tells me personally that a solution is not required nor is it entertained to begin with here in Thailand.

There are huge problems from the moment of entering the education system that are out of the students , the parents and the teachers up through the administration control in most if not all government schools throughout not only specific to the English language classes but in every subject.The list is massive but fixable with a price(time and effort)I am a simple carpenter who has been teaching for the past 4 years from Prathum to Mattayum and I can seriously say without a doubt that the problem is not going to be fixed by asking for more qualified teachers for they will struggle like thousands of us have and still deal with the system watching their students failing year after year because the last thing on the schools mind is the welfare of its students when copying either from the book or from another student all the way up to " I don't need to form my own grades for it will be done for me and it does not matter that the foreign teacher thinks I could do better" and give me the real grades in order for me to focus more and see that there is an incentive to actually doing the work is not only ignored but encouraged which I believe is so detrimental to these kids. But you cannot blame the Thai teachers or those way up the totem pole for they are only doing what they feel is the norm and so they cycle continues over and over again.I hope to hear some constructive comments as without sounding false I really would appreciate other comments to the contrary. Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There maybe teachers with dubious qualifications, but it far from easy. The degree alone is not generally acceptable, you must have the transcript and those are a lot more difficult to forge. It's not only the MOE that reviews the credentials, but the Teacher's Council and the Ministry of Labor (prior to issuing a work permit).

It is far easier now for someone to work without a degree and fly under the radar than it is to use a dodgy certificate.

I disagree, getting a fake diploma and transcripts is neither difficult nor costly--you don't have to believe me, just google "degrees and transcripts."

Additionally, l know two falangs who used fake degrees and transcripts to obtain work permits to teach English--neither had any college and one had not even graduated high school.

I live in a city only sparsely populated by falangs, most of whom are English teachers. We get our share of 7-month tourists, but there is a nucleus of long-term falang English teachers, a few over twenty years here. Talking over a beer with several of the teachers the other night, we came to the conclusion that perhaps 50% of them did not have a degree, but 100% of them--not the 7-month tourists--were good teachers. I would be reluctant to take those numbers to the bank--perhaps closer the other way round.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The school still is supposed to verify the degree. I know I always do as do the schools I am associated with. The written confirmation of the verification is submitted to the MOE. I think it's a little hard to get that verification unless you are impersonating someone who actually does have a degree, but then you would need a fake passport.

I didn't say it can't be done, I said it isn't easy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is far easier now for someone to work without a degree and fly under the radar than it is to use a dodgy certificate.

It would be a very dangerous policy for private schools to employ "teachers" without degrees/waivers/work permits (if that's what you're implying Scott); they would be running a very serious risk of being closed down - rightly too.

Edited by bundoi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am implying nothing. I am simply stating a fact. If people present a dodgy certificate, there are a number of places where it runs a chance of getting spotted.

Forging documents is quite serious and you run a chance of going to jail. It is fraud. Some years back this happened to some teachers and was reported in the news.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am implying nothing. I am simply stating a fact. If people present a dodgy certificate, there are a number of places where it runs a chance of getting spotted.

Yes obviously, but I was commenting on the other half of your statement.

A "teacher" can only work without the necessary educational qualifications, work permit etc - ie "under the radar" - if a school is prepared to take the risk of "employing" someone illegally. With the tightening up that we're seeing, those schools will be closed down, quite rightly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The school still is supposed to verify the degree. I know I always do as do the schools I am associated with. The written confirmation of the verification is submitted to the MOE. I think it's a little hard to get that verification unless you are impersonating someone who actually does have a degree, but then you would need a fake passport.

I didn't say it can't be done, I said it isn't easy.

Scott, I am not trying to discredit you or your agency and I agree, it should not be such a problem to tell the legitimate degrees from the fakes, but is the MOE equipped to do that check? The two people to which I referred, got their work permits in 2011 and did the 7-month tourist routine and left in early 2012. Perhaps it's more difficult to use a fake degree now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't work for an agency. I work for a school, actually several schools that are affiliated, by the way. Schools do not get shut down for employing teachers (or anybody else for that matter) illegally. The person working for the school may get into a heap of trouble, but for the school it's pretty minimal. I believe there is a fine on the books, but I've not heard of it being implemented. When people are sprung for working illegally, there name gets plastered all over the place, but not the name of the school.

With regard to fake degrees, I am sure it is quite possible to get one. It's possible to get forged passports as well. It's just not as easy as it once was and there are multiple checks. The degree is not hard to forge, but the transcript is a little trickier. The Teacher's Council, I believe, as well as the MOE have a list of accredited schools. The MOE does not usually do checks, however, I do know of them sending 3 degrees back to a school and saying they were fake. It seemed the same signature line appeared on all 3 and they were from different schools. So, somewhere, someone does take a look occasionally. When we apply for the non-immgrant B paperwork, I submit either a verification of the degree or a letter to the school requesting verification. When we apply for the TL/Work Permit the verification is with the other paperwork.

2011 is pretty recent. I was seeing them pretty routinely up until about 2005/06. After that they started to drop off rather drastically. I believe they had arrested some of the diploma vendors on Khao San Road and confiscated the hard disk from the computer with the names on the degrees. Around the same time, there were two teachers arrested for having fake degrees somewhere in the vicinity of Rama 2 road, I believe it was Bang Khu Tien area. After that, the big rage was the Life Experience Degree and people were getting employed with them. Some came with a transcript as well.

The problem with the Life Experience Degree was that they did not come from one of the approved, accredited schools listed by the MOE and TC.

Potential employees with a fake degree are committing an act of Fraud. It's very simple. It's quite illegal. In one instance, the school in the person's home country was planning on pursuing criminal charges against someone for using a fake degree from their school. I don't know what ever happened with that case.

On a regular basis people walk into a school without a degree and attempt to get work. Last year, the gov't was recruiting teachers with or without a degree to work in rural schools. They were paid 10,000 baht per month. I know a non-degreed person who took them up and got the job. No degree. He submitted his resume ONLY to the school and it was approved by someone up the ladder. He got a visa and a work permit. So what did he do that was illegal?

When that program ended, he was hired by a neighboring school and his visa and work permit were extended, but now he is paid a full wage of 30,000 baht.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The school still is supposed to verify the degree. I know I always do as do the schools I am associated with. The written confirmation of the verification is submitted to the MOE. I think it's a little hard to get that verification unless you are impersonating someone who actually does have a degree, but then you would need a fake passport.

I didn't say it can't be done, I said it isn't easy.

Or just find a graduate who has the same name as you and copy their transcript - i imagine they just verify the name...or the birth date as well? Some university verification letters cost money. Who pays for that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Or just find a graduate who has the same name as you and copy their transcript"

Security paper is quite a pain to forge or copy. so I doubt that will even help getting someone from the same school.

These policies will not change how many teachers there are.They will change in how many have work permits etc. As Scott stated it is often easier for schools to bypass the requirements than it is for teachers to work with fraudulent degrees etc. There are also lesser penalties for working under the table than there are for using fraudulent papers. The other failure in the system if it goes into effect is that it won't produce better standard of teachers. Those that have more to offer usually work abroad as Thailand will never pay the same levels as other countries for the same caliber of teachers.

Even now it is a requirement to have a degree to teach but as so many posters have stated on other threads as well, there are tons of teachers here working legally without degrees. They used to change the wording and hire them as specialists or consultants than teachers. Or as others have said all the white faces will be replaced with Filipinos with their 3 year education degrees. Imagine 1000's of 19 year old Filipinos replacing the over 50 crowd work force.

Until all the branches of the government get into check and stop creating populace policies, get back into the classroom and see first hand what is required, there will never be any real progress. All admin and members of MOE, or other governmental agencies making policy need to actually teach and continue teaching while doing their other duties. That way they are affected by the policies that they create. Teachers do all of the heavy lifting and are then blamed when things go wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The school still is supposed to verify the degree. I know I always do as do the schools I am associated with. The written confirmation of the verification is submitted to the MOE. I think it's a little hard to get that verification unless you are impersonating someone who actually does have a degree, but then you would need a fake passport.

I didn't say it can't be done, I said it isn't easy.

Or just find a graduate who has the same name as you and copy their transcript - i imagine they just verify the name...or the birth date as well? Some university verification letters cost money. Who pays for that?

When verifying the degree, you must include the birthdate. The birthdate and the matriculation number are generally also included on the transcript, which usually has a special seal which is multicolored.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The school still is supposed to verify the degree. I know I always do as do the schools I am associated with. The written confirmation of the verification is submitted to the MOE. I think it's a little hard to get that verification unless you are impersonating someone who actually does have a degree, but then you would need a fake passport.

I didn't say it can't be done, I said it isn't easy.

Or just find a graduate who has the same name as you and copy their transcript - i imagine they just verify the name...or the birth date as well? Some university verification letters cost money. Who pays for that?

'Just' find a graduate with your name? OK if your name is John Smith I guess.

The only way a fake degree will work is if the person checking it doesnt do their job properly.

While I support teachers who are good but lack a degree staying on, using a fake degree is not something I can support. I worked damn hard for years (and paid fees of tens of thousands of dollars) for my qualifications and I have little time for people buying theirs down Khao San Rd or on the net.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course there needs to be regulations to make sure that schools don't hire people who have no skills and no desire to gain skills. But skills aren't measured only by pieces of paper. Sorry to be self-centred, but again I bring up my own case:

I came to Thailand many years ago and found that I needed a teaching job to be able to stay. So I went and got one - easy, back then - no specific requirements needed. And I wasn't a very good teacher, either. But I have a philosophy of always doing something to the best of my ability, so I made a point of learning from my mistakes, my colleagues, and from some reading. Now I think I do a pretty good job - and most of my colleagues, bosses, students and their parents agree. But I don't have a degree, and so I have been told by the labour office that I won't be able to renew my work permit again.

This means that my 11 years of experience and my reputation count for nothing.

There needs to be some way of counting other forms of experience besides qualifications. I know several people like me that have left the country... and I'm to follow suit shortly.

You could have spent the past 11 years trying to get some kind of qualification though.

Nottocus - thats a very easy to make, obvious statement but it doesnt mean its wise. I'd take 11 years experience over an ornate piece of paper anytime. You only start really learning your stuff when you get into the real world. Preferring formal studies over extensive experience without looking further into the individuals ability is the easy way out and its hardly scientific or sensible in the current supply and demand situation Thailand faces in regards to teaching.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

There is a very good reason why formal training is required AS WELL as relevant experience.

Even with my training AND experience, my first few interviews at real schools in my home country were disasters.

Imagine being in a room with 10 teachers and administrators firing questions at you; you must be on your game.

The right applicant will be able to give good answers to all questions asked with regard to both the art(natural ability and experience) AND science (formal training, knowledge of pedagogy etc) of teaching.

If you want to have a real job, you must have real qualifications and experience.

But I do agree that the function of many "English teachers" at Thai schools should not require the training of a real teacher, as in many cases their job is not really "to teach."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really wish people without degrees would stop crying about how they are being put upon and disenfranchaised. A degree has been a standard of entry to most jobs in the West for decades. Why on earth would it not be a requirement in academics?

Like my seventh grade teacher told me about math, if you would put the same effort into doing it as you do avoiding it you'd understand it.

You people are at the end of your rope, working in Thailand, illegally and want the system to make exceptions in what are common standards because you are such a brilliant teacher - but not brilliant or dilligent enough to get a bachelors degree.

I have a degree in an academic subject and studying for TCT tests. Yeah, there is something to being a teacher other than being able to "do the drill". Teaching is perhaps the one job thst everyone thinks they can do naturally.

The best judge if you are a non degreed teacher is multiple years teaching at the same school with wp in bkk. Anything short of that and you are just fooling yourself.

Try the low end schools in Cambodia. You are done.

Stop trying to rationalize to people that have achieved their degrees that you deserve to be included in the club, just because. You don't.

College graduate is a standard for everything these days. What it shows if notbing else is diligence and determination. It also proves as fact you have studied in relation to English:

These are basics of any decent liberal arts BA. The diploma certifies you know this stuff.

Composition, Adv Comp

English

Literature

Humanities

Logic and critical thinking

In my major, tons of reading and writing

Senior paper

Teaching at this juncture will never, ever be reduced to "a job". If snything, it has been going in the opposite direction, for years. You have done nothing to assist yourself in this regard save for whining about how experience trumps all.

The only people that ever and I do mean ever, routinely slag degreesvare the people that don't have one.

Move on. Move out, really.

Good post

OK, I've got a degree and I'm saying it means jack s*#@t in many cases. Even a PhD can be fairly meaningless depending on what was studied and the personal aptitude of the teacher. This is based on interviewing, hiring and observing graduates and post grads over 10 years in a professional field.

And I wouldn't be getting too elitist about having a BA! I did some guest lecturing and testing of BA students in one of the better universities in Australia and was hardly impressed with what I saw. Perhaps you would've been one of the 5% in those classes who could string a legible argument together without paraphrasing from a book? In that case you'd have been part of a very small group! I doubt it's that different elsewhere except in the very best unis.

In my humble opinion, a BA is hardly up to the standard of a BLLb or BSc, which require (again in my opinion and from personal experience of all) a significantly higher pass standard in skills like argument development, written and verbal English expression and reading for understanding. As they used to say, 'oils ain't oils', and in the same vein some degrees simply aren't equivalent in terms of required English standards to others.

So what does this mean? A 'degree' or even a PhD on its own doesn't really say that much. It certainly doesn't fit you out as a competent NES teacher of foreign language students. It's more about your aptitude and ability to enthuse and communicate than how good you were at writing 2000 words on Aristotle or whipping out 4 essays in 3 hours in an exam 5 years ago (or whenever) (or sticking the course through years of hell to get your doctrate).

Many good teachers in this country with extensive experience would be unnecessarily affected by this proposal. I think those of us with formal qualifications should be supporting the good teachers among them, not lounging around in towers of fake ivory feeling superior because we spent 3 or 4 years cloistered in tutorials and lecture rooms while they gained real world experience (instead of just reading about it).

I would certainly not say; as you so eloquently put it, that a degree means jacksh&t, here's why.

A degree will get you a job. Without one you have little chance. Keeping said job will depend on your ability in the classroom.

Thats the reality of it, the long and short of it, the "it is what it is" of it etc.

I have little faith that whining about it will ever make a difference, but it is your right to do so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.





×
×
  • Create New...