Thai farmers demand rice payment on Monday

[blokker]

This shows Sutheep and the gang should have called victory after the amnesty bill was retreated.

Then wait for the rice buying scheme and the government to collapse slowly but surely.

That way the Democrats may have actually convinced some people on the other side in Isaan, and win an election.

Now Sutheep's protest without end gives Thaksin and PT an excuse for the rice scheme failure: they can't pay cause the government has been shut down, or some crap like that.

Further, the red's base has been galvanized and strengthened by all the talk about uneducated farmers not being ready for democracy, etc ...

Its dumb against dumber.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited January 17, 2014 by blokker

[love1012]

C'mon the Farmers, turn and bite. This is more significant than any bombings in BKK. When the red tide up north turns, the game must be up for the Family Business. The timing of this is probably worrying ShinCo, it couldn't have worked out worse. It almost seems as if it is planned and executed by Govt opposition. It will be such a gloriously delicious case of 'som nom naaaa' if it is the Rice Scham which takes the Government down ..... given enough rope, they hung themselves!!!!

After all the shootings and deaths in 2010, and after seeing these Bangkok people and Southerners spouting absolute filth and horrid remarks about Isaan in 2010 and 2013 and now 2014, there is zero chance, in my opinion, of any change in red feelings.

As has been said, Thaksin must be very happy with Suthep and Abhisit as they have turned what could have been a sticky patch into a solid united red vote PTP hoard, in my opinion.

Have you ever considered why YL and PTP tried to push the amnesty bill just at this moment in time, ever considered the response from the Democrats and Elite is just what they wanted and expected, and they fell into the trap and have now created a massive anti-Democrat Party feeling over most of Thailand ?

Just my view.

We see 2 million people turning out in Bangkok this week - many of them from Isaan - the truth today is that it has shown the depth of feeling against your puppet master who sits trying to control things from his penthouse. Massive anti democrat feeling in Bangkok? Remeber the Pheu Thai were virtually wiped out in Bangkok last election - only the red shirt Isan and Chiang Mai saved them!!

Is that a "YON" 2 million, so you mean 2000 then ?

At the very peak there was only 160,000.

Now its down to a few thousand hardcore.

Have you ever seen a crown of 250,000 ? Its much bigger than any photo's you have seen of Bangkok Protests........... 160,000 maximum in most peoples views was the peak !

You see - if your Phua Thai Government would spend money on education instead of only promising broken cheap computers children in thyour village including your self would be able to read and to count - i said 2 million THIS WEEK - I also would comment that those are people who protested because they believe in what they are doing NOT because they were given haa loi baht by your square head!!

[love1012]

The government has consistently said the rice scheme is not a money making machine. Yes, there is a late payment, but the government did not say it will not honour the late payments. Efforts are being made and you can see it is going to be sabotaged by the EC commissioners because they weighted more on political considerations than the livelihood of the people. The rice pledging scheme face many challenges that are of political nature.The farmers' protest proved that they need the money. They must not forget they need the scheme for the money as well. It is an ongoing huge scheme with many challenges that the EC commissioners is going to kill and blocking their payments.

Needing a subsidy isn't much help when it doesn't arrive. How about something radical, start working in an industry that pays enough to live on, instead of bludging on your fellow Thais and selling your votes to those willing to pander to you. This theory is also known as "get a haircut and a real job'".

It is a rice pledging scheme, not a subsidy. If it is, then there is no need to pledge, just hand out the money. If it is subsidy, the oppositions will scream as well.

Yes a pledging scheme not a subsidy. And elected caretaker PM/DM Yingluck has stated that the scheme does not make a loss. It's only an accounting loss she said, not a real loss.

As she is self stated running the country herself, she will no doubt explain all this to the NACC when they probe her.

It's bound to make a loss because more is being paid for the rice than it can be sold for. If that wasn't the case it wouldn't be needed. That isn't really the problem as all subsidies work like this. The problem is the amount of overpayment and the apparent corruption and lies that's dragging it down.

hahaha you are so desperate - if it is not for the profit of the farmers why would they join the scheme? The Government PROMISED three years ago that if farmers could not sell the rice at a market price they would make up the difference - I can SHOW you the advery if you wold like to see it

Your Thai maybe not perfect - mine IS!!

You recently signed up didn't you ?

And you have a very abrasive nature in my opinion, attacking people and being insulting (I have replied to one of your insults already)

Did you get banned before and now have signed up a new user name ? Genuine question.

awww do you fear competition? you know the philosophy - when threatened throw a handgrenade!!! You of course do not have an abrasive nature do you - and trying to get moderators to help you shows your lack of class and your red shirt pedigree to stoop to the lowest trick you can sink to!!

[englishoak]

C'mon the Farmers, turn and bite. This is more significant than any bombings in BKK. When the red tide up north turns, the game must be up for the Family Business. The timing of this is probably worrying ShinCo, it couldn't have worked out worse. It almost seems as if it is planned and executed by Govt opposition. It will be such a gloriously delicious case of 'som nom naaaa' if it is the Rice Scham which takes the Government down ..... given enough rope, they hung themselves!!!!

After all the shootings and deaths in 2010, and after seeing these Bangkok people and Southerners spouting absolute filth and horrid remarks about Isaan in 2010 and 2013 and now 2014, there is zero chance, in my opinion, of any change in red feelings.

As has been said, Thaksin must be very happy with Suthep and Abhisit as they have turned what could have been a sticky patch into a solid united red vote PTP hoard, in my opinion.

Have you ever considered why YL and PTP tried to push the amnesty bill just at this moment in time, ever considered the response from the Democrats and Elite is just what they wanted and expected, and they fell into the trap and have now created a massive anti-Democrat Party feeling over most of Thailand ?

Just my view.

We see 2 million people turning out in Bangkok this week - many of them from Isaan - the truth today is that it has shown the depth of feeling against your puppet master who sits trying to control things from his penthouse. Massive anti democrat feeling in Bangkok? Remeber the Pheu Thai were virtually wiped out in Bangkok last election - only the red shirt Isan and Chiang Mai saved them!!

I thought you said you were educated ? if so maths wernt part of it. My dear chap nothing hes even been close to your number and BKK is not the rest of Thailand.

Making up numbers and pretending BKK is the be and end of all regarding peoples voting preference does not really make you very credible you know.

[love1012]

C'mon the Farmers, turn and bite. This is more significant than any bombings in BKK. When the red tide up north turns, the game must be up for the Family Business. The timing of this is probably worrying ShinCo, it couldn't have worked out worse. It almost seems as if it is planned and executed by Govt opposition. It will be such a gloriously delicious case of 'som nom naaaa' if it is the Rice Scham which takes the Government down ..... given enough rope, they hung themselves!!!!

After all the shootings and deaths in 2010, and after seeing these Bangkok people and Southerners spouting absolute filth and horrid remarks about Isaan in 2010 and 2013 and now 2014, there is zero chance, in my opinion, of any change in red feelings.

As has been said, Thaksin must be very happy with Suthep and Abhisit as they have turned what could have been a sticky patch into a solid united red vote PTP hoard, in my opinion.

Have you ever considered why YL and PTP tried to push the amnesty bill just at this moment in time, ever considered the response from the Democrats and Elite is just what they wanted and expected, and they fell into the trap and have now created a massive anti-Democrat Party feeling over most of Thailand ?

Just my view.

We see 2 million people turning out in Bangkok this week - many of them from Isaan - the truth today is that it has shown the depth of feeling against your puppet master who sits trying to control things from his penthouse. Massive anti democrat feeling in Bangkok? Remeber the Pheu Thai were virtually wiped out in Bangkok last election - only the red shirt Isan and Chiang Mai saved them!!

I thought you said you were educated ? if so maths wernt part of it. My dear chap nothing hes even been close to your number and BKK is not the rest of Thailand.

Making up numbers and pretending BKK is the be and end of all regarding peoples voting preference does not really make you very credible you know.

seems you too cannot read peoples posts - I said 2 million THIS WEEK!!!! and who said Bangkok WAS the rest of Thailand? Are you twisting my words like a redshirt? - go and learn to read!! My dear chap!! Why dont you google what happened in Pitsanulok, Sukhothai. Tak, Kampaeng Phet, Pattaya, Chonburi, and the South - that should find you some quiet time!!

Edited January 17, 2014 by love1012

[Thait Spot]

we hear of rice farmers not being paid..pledging scheme..

who can pledge rice..when people read farmers not paid,i think it is only the ones who have many rai of land...

so instead of selling it to the millers at say 12 bhat...they took the big bucks of selling it to the pledge for a lot more...so got stuffed...

so how many rai do you need to join the scheme....

Go sell your logic to the rice farmers.

You'll find as many takers as you will here

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Thait Spot]

The farmers cannot be paid as Suthep demanded the House dissolved and all the Democrat Party MP's resigned.

So this messed up the payments.

And until an election is carried out and a new government is installed, the payments cannot be made.

So really, Suthep and Abhisit/Democrats are to blame for the lack of payment in many peoples eyes and those same people want an election as soon as possible else they will months and months without payment.

Fail Fail for Suthep and Abhisit/Democrats.

Fail as they are getting blamed for late payment.

Fail as they want to delay the election.

In my opinion the above of course.

Maybe a better explanation is that the caretaker government, when in power, pledged to buy rice higher than the market price and have been unable to sell it. They've lied about G2G sales, for which they are now under investigation, and 60% of what's been paid out so far doesn't seem to have reached the farmers or be able to be accounted for. The inventories don't tally either.

This crap heap was unraveling way before the protests. Money was running out and the 2.2. trillion "fund all holes" loan was being rightly held up. Criticism of the scheme from Moody's, Bloomberg, IMF and others resulted in the sudden spate of GSG sales. Of course the actual details were top secret, so secret that it now appears not real but lies - presumably more little white lies to keep the minions happy.

PTP hoped to get the whitewash, 2.2 trillion loan. release of the 350 billion water management budget, and remove checks and balances all through parliament, into law and implemented before cash flow problems choked them and exposed the real situation. If successful they could have carried on robbing Peter to pay Paul whilst skimming off.

This is just an opinion of course, as no facts have been released and the brave MOF lady seems to have been silenced.

Yes, its just inventories.

The rice is in the warehouse and so your inventory level is high, and running up inventories will eat cash.

When you sell your inventory you have the cash back.

Quite simple accountancy procedures.

The government runs a deficit, whats the problem with that ? Its just distribution of the states money to farmers. What issue do you have ?

You do not like a government in effect running a deficit to help the poor rice farmers ?

Remember Abhisit borrowing money from China and Japan for "economic stimulus", one example is below :

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/03/25/business/business_30098784.php

And remember Abhisit giving people 2000 baht "free" as so called economic stimulus ? Was that not vote buying ?

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola/2009/01/25/entry-1

Funny that when the Democrats/Abhisit borrow money from abroad and dish it out free its not "vote buying" in some peoples eyes, but if PTP buys rice from farmers at a higher price its all vote buying !!

Call it a rice subsidy, call it economic stimulus, call it a "used car buy back scheme", all governments all over the world do it.

All in my opinion of course.

How many of them cream 50% off the top?

That's the difference

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Artisi]

The government has consistently said the rice scheme is not a money making machine. Yes, there is a late payment, but the government did not say it will not honour the late payments. Efforts are being made and you can see it is going to be sabotaged by the EC commissioners because they weighted more on political considerations than the livelihood of the people. The rice pledging scheme face many challenges that are of political nature.The farmers' protest proved that they need the money. They must not forget they need the scheme for the money as well. It is an ongoing huge scheme with many challenges that the EC commissioners is going to kill and blocking their payments.

Needing a subsidy isn't much help when it doesn't arrive. How about something radical, start working in an industry that pays enough to live on, instead of bludging on your fellow Thais and selling your votes to those willing to pander to you. This theory is also known as "get a haircut and a real job'".

It is a rice pledging scheme, not a subsidy. If it is, then there is no need to pledge, just hand out the money. If it is subsidy, the oppositions will scream as well.

Yes a pledging scheme not a subsidy. And elected caretaker PM/DM Yingluck has stated that the scheme does not make a loss. It's only an accounting loss she said, not a real loss.

As she is self stated running the country herself, she will no doubt explain all this to the NACC when they probe her.

It's bound to make a loss because more is being paid for the rice than it can be sold for. If that wasn't the case it wouldn't be needed. That isn't really the problem as all subsidies work like this. The problem is the amount of overpayment and the apparent corruption and lies that's dragging it down.

The government has indicated a few times and Thaksin has confirmed that this would be a profitable scheme for Thailand. Maybe Thailand and Shinawatras got mixed in the translation.

The farmers are promised payment, they provided their paddy and now they have nothing. So blame the government.

Without the scheme they would have sold directly to businesses and have money. The difference in price received would not be that much as seldomly poor farmers got the pledge price. A minimum price guarantee directly paid to them would help more.

BTW what's the difference of an accumulated loss requiring an extra loan of hundred++ billion Baht and a real loss? Especially as various government spokespersons, Ministers, etc. already confirmed losses between 40 to 400 billion Baht. They're still checking the book I guess to explain the wide gap.

But politicians and the world does not call it a loss.

They call it a deficit, a budget deficit to be precise, meaning the money the government is paying out is less than its getting in.

The USA is running with an ever increasing budget deficit.

Now, Suthep and the Democrats and many people on here would call that a loss would they ? Would they suggest people to be out protesting that the USA is losing more money every day, every second the LOSS is increasing ?

Running a government on a budget deficit is quite normal around the world, so please, do not say LOSS, just use the normal word of deficit............... a budget deficit.

Call it whatever you want, but at the end of the day the farmers haven't been paid - so they couldn't give a xxxx what it's called.

[Thait Spot]

The government has consistently said the rice scheme is not a money making machine. Yes, there is a late payment, but the government did not say it will not honour the late payments. Efforts are being made and you can see it is going to be sabotaged by the EC commissioners because they weighted more on political considerations than the livelihood of the people. The rice pledging scheme face many challenges that are of political nature.The farmers' protest proved that they need the money. They must not forget they need the scheme for the money as well. It is an ongoing huge scheme with many challenges that the EC commissioners is going to kill and blocking their payments.

Needing a subsidy isn't much help when it doesn't arrive. How about something radical, start working in an industry that pays enough to live on, instead of bludging on your fellow Thais and selling your votes to those willing to pander to you. This theory is also known as "get a haircut and a real job'".

It is a rice pledging scheme, not a subsidy. If it is, then there is no need to pledge, just hand out the money. If it is subsidy, the oppositions will scream as well.

Yes a pledging scheme not a subsidy. And elected caretaker PM/DM Yingluck has stated that the scheme does not make a loss. It's only an accounting loss she said, not a real loss.

As she is self stated running the country herself, she will no doubt explain all this to the NACC when they probe her.

It's bound to make a loss because more is being paid for the rice than it can be sold for. If that wasn't the case it wouldn't be needed. That isn't really the problem as all subsidies work like this. The problem is the amount of overpayment and the apparent corruption and lies that's dragging it down.

This scheme needed nobody the the PTP to sabotage it. It was in that state 5 months ago.

To blame the EC is dishonest of you

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[blokker]

C'mon the Farmers, turn and bite. This is more significant than any bombings in BKK. When the red tide up north turns, the game must be up for the Family Business. The timing of this is probably worrying ShinCo, it couldn't have worked out worse. It almost seems as if it is planned and executed by Govt opposition. It will be such a gloriously delicious case of 'som nom naaaa' if it is the Rice Scham which takes the Government down ..... given enough rope, they hung themselves!!!!

After all the shootings and deaths in 2010, and after seeing these Bangkok people and Southerners spouting absolute filth and horrid remarks about Isaan in 2010 and 2013 and now 2014, there is zero chance, in my opinion, of any change in red feelings.

As has been said, Thaksin must be very happy with Suthep and Abhisit as they have turned what could have been a sticky patch into a solid united red vote PTP hoard, in my opinion.

Have you ever considered why YL and PTP tried to push the amnesty bill just at this moment in time, ever considered the response from the Democrats and Elite is just what they wanted and expected, and they fell into the trap and have now created a massive anti-Democrat Party feeling over most of Thailand ?

Just my view.

We see 2 million people turning out in Bangkok this week - many of them from Isaan - the truth today is that it has shown the depth of feeling against your puppet master who sits trying to control things from his penthouse. Massive anti democrat feeling in Bangkok? Remeber the Pheu Thai were virtually wiped out in Bangkok last election - only the red shirt Isan and Chiang Mai saved them!!

Is that a "YON" 2 million, so you mean 2000 then ?

At the very peak there was only 160,000.

Now its down to a few thousand hardcore.

Have you ever seen a crown of 250,000 ? Its much bigger than any photo's you have seen of Bangkok Protests........... 160,000 maximum in most peoples views was the peak !

You see - if your Phua Thai Government would spend money on education instead of only promising broken cheap computers children in thyour village including your self would be able to read and to count - i said 2 million THIS WEEK - I also would comment that those are people who protested because they believe in what they are doing NOT because they were given haa loi baht by your square head!!

The rubber tappers from the south came here for free?

Or do the Hi-So people from BKK sleep on the streets and stand on Sutheep's frontline?

I don't see any difference between red and yellow; people being manipulated and bought to fight for the rights and benefits of some elite families. Lets not support any of those people.

Especially when they sow hatred and lawlessness.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited January 17, 2014 by blokker

[icommunity]

The government has consistently said the rice scheme is not a money making machine. Yes, there is a late payment, but the government did not say it will not honour the late payments. Efforts are being made and you can see it is going to be sabotaged by the EC commissioners because they weighted more on political considerations than the livelihood of the people. The rice pledging scheme face many challenges that are of political nature.The farmers' protest proved that they need the money. They must not forget they need the scheme for the money as well. It is an ongoing huge scheme with many challenges that the EC commissioners is going to kill and blocking their payments.

Needing a subsidy isn't much help when it doesn't arrive. How about something radical, start working in an industry that pays enough to live on, instead of bludging on your fellow Thais and selling your votes to those willing to pander to you. This theory is also known as "get a haircut and a real job'".

It is a rice pledging scheme, not a subsidy. If it is, then there is no need to pledge, just hand out the money. If it is subsidy, the oppositions will scream as well.

Yes a pledging scheme not a subsidy. And elected caretaker PM/DM Yingluck has stated that the scheme does not make a loss. It's only an accounting loss she said, not a real loss.

As she is self stated running the country herself, she will no doubt explain all this to the NACC when they probe her.

It's bound to make a loss because more is being paid for the rice than it can be sold for. If that wasn't the case it wouldn't be needed. That isn't really the problem as all subsidies work like this. The problem is the amount of overpayment and the apparent corruption and lies that's dragging it down.

The government has indicated a few times and Thaksin has confirmed that this would be a profitable scheme for Thailand. Maybe Thailand and Shinawatras got mixed in the translation.

The farmers are promised payment, they provided their paddy and now they have nothing. So blame the government.

Without the scheme they would have sold directly to businesses and have money. The difference in price received would not be that much as seldomly poor farmers got the pledge price. A minimum price guarantee directly paid to them would help more.

BTW what's the difference of an accumulated loss requiring an extra loan of hundred++ billion Baht and a real loss? Especially as various government spokespersons, Ministers, etc. already confirmed losses between 40 to 400 billion Baht. They're still checking the book I guess to explain the wide gap.

When did the Government and/or Thaksin said it is a money making scheme - you called it profitable for Thailand? The government never say it will be problem free. The farmers accepted the scheme and voted the PTP. They were never force to participate in the scheme. For their own good they should guard themselves against the temptation to exploit or create a loophole for corruption and irregularity and cooperate with the government to root them up. They knew they will be challenges from the oppositions.

To me, the real loss is when the scheme do not better the life of those farmers who work hard and result in domestic spending and growth in related industries. At the moment from your posting it is hard for me to know what you are looking for. I may be wrong, you are focusing more on the balance sheet instead of the economy of the country as a whole. Using manufacturing as an example, investing in machinery or technology is a loss as far as book keeping is concerned. However, it is measured in the return of its investment. Funding in Investment of machinery or technology were usually through loan. The ROI in investing in the well being of rice farmers can be measured in term of food security, social security, related industries growth, development and expansion. The government can create opportunities, facilitate growth and encourage those who are willing to work hard and see the opportunities.

I don't know how you gather information. 40 to 400 millions is a wide gap. Which means all the figures so far are speculative and from different methods and book-keeping perspective.

I believe the Government is continually fine tuning the operations of its rice pledging scheme while the oppositions focus on smearing it.

[kimamey]

The government has consistently said the rice scheme is not a money making machine. Yes, there is a late payment, but the government did not say it will not honour the late payments. Efforts are being made and you can see it is going to be sabotaged by the EC commissioners because they weighted more on political considerations than the livelihood of the people. The rice pledging scheme face many challenges that are of political nature.The farmers' protest proved that they need the money. They must not forget they need the scheme for the money as well. It is an ongoing huge scheme with many challenges that the EC commissioners is going to kill and blocking their payments.

Needing a subsidy isn't much help when it doesn't arrive. How about something radical, start working in an industry that pays enough to live on, instead of bludging on your fellow Thais and selling your votes to those willing to pander to you. This theory is also known as "get a haircut and a real job'".

It is a rice pledging scheme, not a subsidy. If it is, then there is no need to pledge, just hand out the money. If it is subsidy, the oppositions will scream as well.

Yes a pledging scheme not a subsidy. And elected caretaker PM/DM Yingluck has stated that the scheme does not make a loss. It's only an accounting loss she said, not a real loss.

As she is self stated running the country herself, she will no doubt explain all this to the NACC when they probe her.

It's bound to make a loss because more is being paid for the rice than it can be sold for. If that wasn't the case it wouldn't be needed. That isn't really the problem as all subsidies work like this. The problem is the amount of overpayment and the apparent corruption and lies that's dragging it down.

The government has indicated a few times and Thaksin has confirmed that this would be a profitable scheme for Thailand. Maybe Thailand and Shinawatras got mixed in the translation.

The farmers are promised payment, they provided their paddy and now they have nothing. So blame the government.

Without the scheme they would have sold directly to businesses and have money. The difference in price received would not be that much as seldomly poor farmers got the pledge price. A minimum price guarantee directly paid to them would help more.

BTW what's the difference of an accumulated loss requiring an extra loan of hundred++ billion Baht and a real loss? Especially as various government spokespersons, Ministers, etc. already confirmed losses between 40 to 400 billion Baht. They're still checking the book I guess to explain the wide gap.

But politicians and the world does not call it a loss.

They call it a deficit, a budget deficit to be precise, meaning the money the government is paying out is less than its getting in.

The USA is running with an ever increasing budget deficit.

Now, Suthep and the Democrats and many people on here would call that a loss would they ? Would they suggest people to be out protesting that the USA is losing more money every day, every second the LOSS is increasing ?

Running a government on a budget deficit is quite normal around the world, so please, do not say LOSS, just use the normal word of deficit............... a budget deficit.

I think 'budget deficit' is used in relation to a countries entire financial situation whereas 'loss' usually relates to one particular project however 'loss' and 'deficit' mean the same so it makes no difference which you use.

As I've said elsewhere it was always going to run at a loss or deficit, that's not the problem. The amount is obviously too high as the government tried to cut it back but there were protests from the farmers. Then there's the corruption, lies and lack of transparency. The question of whether the farmers got as much from this as they should have done and who is getting the money for the storage.

[icommunity]

The government has consistently said the rice scheme is not a money making machine. Yes, there is a late payment, but the government did not say it will not honour the late payments. Efforts are being made and you can see it is going to be sabotaged by the EC commissioners because they weighted more on political considerations than the livelihood of the people. The rice pledging scheme face many challenges that are of political nature.The farmers' protest proved that they need the money. They must not forget they need the scheme for the money as well. It is an ongoing huge scheme with many challenges that the EC commissioners is going to kill and blocking their payments.

Needing a subsidy isn't much help when it doesn't arrive. How about something radical, start working in an industry that pays enough to live on, instead of bludging on your fellow Thais and selling your votes to those willing to pander to you. This theory is also known as "get a haircut and a real job'".

It is a rice pledging scheme, not a subsidy. If it is, then there is no need to pledge, just hand out the money. If it is subsidy, the oppositions will scream as well.

Yes a pledging scheme not a subsidy. And elected caretaker PM/DM Yingluck has stated that the scheme does not make a loss. It's only an accounting loss she said, not a real loss.

As she is self stated running the country herself, she will no doubt explain all this to the NACC when they probe her.

It's bound to make a loss because more is being paid for the rice than it can be sold for. If that wasn't the case it wouldn't be needed. That isn't really the problem as all subsidies work like this. The problem is the amount of overpayment and the apparent corruption and lies that's dragging it down.

hahaha you are so desperate - if it is not for the profit of the farmers why would they join the scheme? The Government PROMISED three years ago that if farmers could not sell the rice at a market price they would make up the difference - I can SHOW you the advery if you wold like to see it

Your Thai maybe not perfect - mine IS!!

As usual, you often twist and distort and put words in the mouth of others.

[rice555]

This shows Sutheep and the gang should have called victory after the amnesty bill was retreated. Then wait for the rice buying scheme and the government to collapse slowly but surely. That way the Democrats may have actually convinced some people on the other side in Isaan, and win an election. Now Sutheep's protest without end gives Thaksin and PT an excuse for the rice scheme failure: they can't pay cause the government has been shut down, or some crap like that. Further, the red's base has been galvanized and strengthened by all the talk about uneducated farmers not being ready for democracy, etc ... Its dumb against dumber. Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

the amnesty bill is not finally dead yet, if PTP won the election and controlled things, it still

could go through till the court decides. One reason they want the Feb. 2 election.

But the rice scam, the government should try to run a world commodity business and pay

over market prices. World sales/demands are down as more countries are becoming self

sufficient.

Again, the not all POOR FARMERS are qualify for the scam, if you want to help the poor farmer, help them. Again most poor farmers only get one crop a year in Isan.

Lets pay more than the market price and try to sale in an over supplied world market, oh nobody wants to over pay for rice. So now we'll have to pay and store store it, Darn it's

rotting and big rats have carried some away.

They keep tripping over each others "White Lies", but the truth be told, they haven't given

any credible info on amount in storage/inked contracts/money spent/money earned.

It was an honest mistake, I didn't know about the money in my driver/maids account, and that

brings us to now, still the same incompetence from TLT to TRT.

rice555

[englishoak]

After all the shootings and deaths in 2010, and after seeing these Bangkok people and Southerners spouting absolute filth and horrid remarks about Isaan in 2010 and 2013 and now 2014, there is zero chance, in my opinion, of any change in red feelings.

As has been said, Thaksin must be very happy with Suthep and Abhisit as they have turned what could have been a sticky patch into a solid united red vote PTP hoard, in my opinion.

Have you ever considered why YL and PTP tried to push the amnesty bill just at this moment in time, ever considered the response from the Democrats and Elite is just what they wanted and expected, and they fell into the trap and have now created a massive anti-Democrat Party feeling over most of Thailand ?

Just my view.

We see 2 million people turning out in Bangkok this week - many of them from Isaan - the truth today is that it has shown the depth of feeling against your puppet master who sits trying to control things from his penthouse. Massive anti democrat feeling in Bangkok? Remeber the Pheu Thai were virtually wiped out in Bangkok last election - only the red shirt Isan and Chiang Mai saved them!!

I thought you said you were educated ? if so maths wernt part of it. My dear chap nothing hes even been close to your number and BKK is not the rest of Thailand.

Making up numbers and pretending BKK is the be and end of all regarding peoples voting preference does not really make you very credible you know.

seems you too cannot read peoples posts - I said 2 million THIS WEEK!!!! and who said Bangkok WAS the rest of Thailand? Are you twisting my words like a redshirt? - go and learn to read!! My dear chap!! Why dont you google what happened in Pitsanulok, Sukhothai. Tak, Kampaeng Phet, Pattaya, Chonburi, and the South - that should find you some quiet time!!

LOL fine I shall ask you again on Monday about your maths then, tell me do you mean the whole weekend or wish to add up the figure to include the whole 7 days ? do tell whats happening in the rest of the country, there is nothing but the wind and the farmers blocking the Asian highway as far as im aware.

Really you have a very bad attitude towards people, if you insist in throwing insults about I would suggest you missed going go to finishing school. Your not a very good advertisement for Thai people, most of my company cannot write English as well as you but they do have far better manners, proper education does not begin and end with a piece of paper and a pencil, etiquette in how to debate and behave seems to be missing from your repertoire

[djjamie]

The farmers cannot be paid as Suthep demanded the House dissolved and all the Democrat Party MP's resigned.

So this messed up the payments.

And until an election is carried out and a new government is installed, the payments cannot be made.

So really, Suthep and Abhisit/Democrats are to blame for the lack of payment in many peoples eyes and those same people want an election as soon as possible else they will months and months without payment.

Fail Fail for Suthep and Abhisit/Democrats.

Fail as they are getting blamed for late payment.

Fail as they want to delay the election.

In my opinion the above of course.

I think you need to get your head out of the Red Sand and look at what has happened with the

rice SCAM, they haven't sold any rice to pay the farmers back, there's no funds from rice sales to pay the farmers, NO MONY!!!! How can it be Suthep/Abhist/Dems fault? They aren the party cooking the books and telling porkers!

Under the Care Taker Govt, they can pay the farmers, BUT there's NO FUNDS.

Would you pay Bt. 1000 for Bt. 500 rice worth of rice??

rice555

Not sure about you, but what you said I assumed was common knowledge? It is all over the internet. It is in news articles Thai and English. It is not however on thairedshirt websites. Some of the comments i read here astound me in regards to the absolute gullibility of uninformed commentors. They have internet so they have no excuse unless the only book mark they have is thairedshirts.

What will the next excuse be? The DEMS made the PTP implement the rice scheme at an unsustainable level.

These comments are more at home on Iraqi, Syrian and Zimbabwe political websites. Not Thailand.

PTP implemented an unsustainable rice scheme to win votes. The DEMS said it would not work and the govt would not be able to pay for it. The PTP didn't listen and said we know best. The scheme failed due to the govt not being able to pay for it. It is the DEMS fault.

PTP LOGIC.

[oldthaihand99]

PTP implemented an unsustainable rice scheme to win votes. The DEMS said it would not work and the govt would not be able to pay for it. The PTP didn't listen and said we know best. The scheme failed due to the govt not being able to pay for it. It is the DEMS fault.

PTP LOGIC.

Not able to pay for it? Is the government broke or bankrupt? Incapable of printing money like the USA does?

"The GDP to debt ratio is still low so you can forget about all that bankruptcy nonsense. And as for corruption, according to the World Bank, it was somewhat better under Thaksin than under Abhisit and...oh...who was the other guy? Oh, yes. Suthep, a man whose personal corruption brought down the last elected Democrat government and who has since maintained his lifelong habit of shovelling as much public money into his own pockets as he can. But now – unfinished police-stations aside – he's magically become the saviour of public finances and – murder charges notwithstanding – the arbiter of what is right and wrong in public life. It's a plot twist of such a staggeringly stupid, unbelievable nature that even Channel 7 soap-writers wouldn't touch it. Really. If you want your transparently selfish, self-serving and, frankly, morally repulsive goals to be taken at least a little seriously, you're going to have to find a somewhat less cartoonishly hypocritical person to rally behind."

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/14/whats-behind-thai-protests/

[djjamie]

PTP implemented an unsustainable rice scheme to win votes. The DEMS said it would not work and the govt would not be able to pay for it. The PTP didn't listen and said we know best. The scheme failed due to the govt not being able to pay for it. It is the DEMS fault.

PTP LOGIC.

Not able to pay for it? Is the government broke or bankrupt? Incapable of printing money like the USA does?

"The GDP to debt ratio is still low so you can forget about all that bankruptcy nonsense. And as for corruption, according to the World Bank, it was somewhat better under Thaksin than under Abhisit and...oh...who was the other guy? Oh, yes. Suthep, a man whose personal corruption brought down the last elected Democrat government and who has since maintained his lifelong habit of shovelling as much public money into his own pockets as he can. But now – unfinished police-stations aside – he's magically become the saviour of public finances and – murder charges notwithstanding – the arbiter of what is right and wrong in public life. It's a plot twist of such a staggeringly stupid, unbelievable nature that even Channel 7 soap-writers wouldn't touch it. Really. If you want your transparently selfish, self-serving and, frankly, morally repulsive goals to be taken at least a little seriously, you're going to have to find a somewhat less cartoonishly hypocritical person to rally behind."

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/14/whats-behind-thai-protests/

I am sure others will jump all over this, but I wanted to get in first.

Not able to pay for it? Nope. They can't. The are a caretaker govt and have no money to pay for a rice scheme without getting a loan. To reiterate for the gullible they have, Zip. None. Zill. Zero. 0. Nada. Take a brick and take a brick away = what the PTP have regarding money to pay for the rice scheme. No bricks. I will stop at zilch. Nahh. A few more. Pensioners have more money to pay for rice than the PTP does and finally, 2 more, nix and naught. Phew.

Then we get into the GDP and corruption argument. I will let the NACC answer the corruption one. It is not about GDP though. It is about corruption.

GDP might be .0000000000001%, BUT if corruption is 99% of that is that acceptable?

I didn't read the rest due to the stitches I have. (They are not from an operation either)

Is there any other way I can say it to you so you understand the PTP have no money to pay for this?

The way you argue you are either getting some of the action or your gullible.

Which one is is it mate?

Edited January 17, 2014 by djjamie

[casualbiker]

PTP implemented an unsustainable rice scheme to win votes. The DEMS said it would not work and the govt would not be able to pay for it. The PTP didn't listen and said we know best. The scheme failed due to the govt not being able to pay for it. It is the DEMS fault.

PTP LOGIC.

Not able to pay for it? Is the government broke or bankrupt? Incapable of printing money like the USA does?

"The GDP to debt ratio is still low so you can forget about all that bankruptcy nonsense. And as for corruption, according to the World Bank, it was somewhat better under Thaksin than under Abhisit and...oh...who was the other guy? Oh, yes. Suthep, a man whose personal corruption brought down the last elected Democrat government and who has since maintained his lifelong habit of shovelling as much public money into his own pockets as he can. But now – unfinished police-stations aside – he's magically become the saviour of public finances and – murder charges notwithstanding – the arbiter of what is right and wrong in public life. It's a plot twist of such a staggeringly stupid, unbelievable nature that even Channel 7 soap-writers wouldn't touch it. Really. If you want your transparently selfish, self-serving and, frankly, morally repulsive goals to be taken at least a little seriously, you're going to have to find a somewhat less cartoonishly hypocritical person to rally behind."

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/14/whats-behind-thai-protests/

Actually . Yes thankfully the GOVERNMENT IS INCAPABLE OF PRINTING MONEY.. THAT'S THE BANK OF THAILANDS JOB.. AND PRAISE BE THEY TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.

And i would LOVE your explanation of the unfinished police stations!

Edited January 17, 2014 by casualbiker

[aimbc]

He said the government should return the paddy to farmers so they could sell it to rice millers if it could not pay the debts.

Hmmmm, I am not really sure I would want my rice back if I was him. By now it will be mouldy, rotten, infested and who knows what else. Plus, you can pretty much guarantee that it would be the worst they could find if they had to actually return any to the farmers.

Yes agreed. If they get it back, they may be able to sell it way below market. And what rice would they get. They wouldn't get their own back. Also the international market knows that Thailand has a huge glut of rice. They will just buy it at a fire sale. I think that's what the government should do. Sale the rice at a lost and get that money to the farmers. You might not get all the money for the farmers, at least they won't starve. See no need for EC to approve any additional loans. Why can't they just do that. Do a fire sale. They need to stop shifting the blame on some else.

Edited January 17, 2014 by aimbc

[Baerboxer]

Yes a pledging scheme not a subsidy. And elected caretaker PM/DM Yingluck has stated that the scheme does not make a loss. It's only an accounting loss she said, not a real loss.

As she is self stated running the country herself, she will no doubt explain all this to the NACC when they probe her.

Agreed. BTW, are you a book-keeper/accountant or CEO/entrepreneur or financial officer?

Edited January 17, 2014 by Baerboxer

[aimbc]

The government has consistently said the rice scheme is not a money making machine. Yes, there is a late payment, but the government did not say it will not honour the late payments. Efforts are being made and you can see it is going to be sabotaged by the EC commissioners because they weighted more on political considerations than the livelihood of the people. The rice pledging scheme face many challenges that are of political nature.The farmers' protest proved that they need the money. They must not forget they need the scheme for the money as well. It is an ongoing huge scheme with many challenges that the EC commissioners is going to kill and blocking their payments.

Needing a subsidy isn't much help when it doesn't arrive. How about something radical, start working in an industry that pays enough to live on, instead of bludging on your fellow Thais and selling your votes to those willing to pander to you. This theory is also known as "get a haircut and a real job'".

It is a rice pledging scheme, not a subsidy. If it is, then there is no need to pledge, just hand out the money. If it is subsidy, the oppositions will scream as well.

Yes a pledging scheme not a subsidy. And elected caretaker PM/DM Yingluck has stated that the scheme does not make a loss. It's only an accounting loss she said, not a real loss.

As she is self stated running the country herself, she will no doubt explain all this to the NACC when they probe her.

It's bound to make a loss because more is being paid for the rice than it can be sold for. If that wasn't the case it wouldn't be needed. That isn't really the problem as all subsidies work like this. The problem is the amount of overpayment and the apparent corruption and lies that's dragging it down.

The government has indicated a few times and Thaksin has confirmed that this would be a profitable scheme for Thailand. Maybe Thailand and Shinawatras got mixed in the translation.

The farmers are promised payment, they provided their paddy and now they have nothing. So blame the government.

Without the scheme they would have sold directly to businesses and have money. The difference in price received would not be that much as seldomly poor farmers got the pledge price. A minimum price guarantee directly paid to them would help more.

BTW what's the difference of an accumulated loss requiring an extra loan of hundred++ billion Baht and a real loss? Especially as various government spokespersons, Ministers, etc. already confirmed losses between 40 to 400 billion Baht. They're still checking the book I guess to explain the wide gap.

But politicians and the world does not call it a loss.

They call it a deficit, a budget deficit to be precise, meaning the money the government is paying out is less than its getting in.

The USA is running with an ever increasing budget deficit.

Now, Suthep and the Democrats and many people on here would call that a loss would they ? Would they suggest people to be out protesting that the USA is losing more money every day, every second the LOSS is increasing ?

Running a government on a budget deficit is quite normal around the world, so please, do not say LOSS, just use the normal word of deficit............... a budget deficit.

I love the US and all, but no one and especially Thailand have to follow the US and be in debt. Don't make a silly statement. It's weak sauce man.

Besides, if all or most of the money getting farmers, I don't think most people will have a problem with borrowing some more. But the idea of borrowing because the corrupt politician stole the money or "Continue" to mismanage the program is inexcusable. Why should hard working people support this type of criminal act and carelessness. So stop it already trying to defend this sorry good for nothing administration. It's there destiny and they built it and with your support. Great going dude!

[djjamie]

PTP implemented an unsustainable rice scheme to win votes. The DEMS said it would not work and the govt would not be able to pay for it. The PTP didn't listen and said we know best. The scheme failed due to the govt not being able to pay for it. It is the DEMS fault.

PTP LOGIC.

Not able to pay for it? Is the government broke or bankrupt? Incapable of printing money like the USA does?

"The GDP to debt ratio is still low so you can forget about all that bankruptcy nonsense. And as for corruption, according to the World Bank, it was somewhat better under Thaksin than under Abhisit and...oh...who was the other guy? Oh, yes. Suthep, a man whose personal corruption brought down the last elected Democrat government and who has since maintained his lifelong habit of shovelling as much public money into his own pockets as he can. But now – unfinished police-stations aside – he's magically become the saviour of public finances and – murder charges notwithstanding – the arbiter of what is right and wrong in public life. It's a plot twist of such a staggeringly stupid, unbelievable nature that even Channel 7 soap-writers wouldn't touch it. Really. If you want your transparently selfish, self-serving and, frankly, morally repulsive goals to be taken at least a little seriously, you're going to have to find a somewhat less cartoonishly hypocritical person to rally behind."

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/14/whats-behind-thai-protests/

You better tell the rice farmers the govt can pay for it then. I think they are doubting you.

Print money heay? No idea about economics then right? I wish they did though. I have a lot of US dollars I would love to ship to Thailand when the change rate reaches 100 to the dollar.

GDP? It could be .00000000001% of the GDP, but when you have no money to pay the farmers (apparently they do according to you) then there are issues.

Again, the PTP implemented a scheme that apparently you still harold as a success even though the people that it is supposed to support are protesting it.

Come on then. How much are you getting paid to write? No one is that stupid...

BTW - I was not talking about Suthep. I was talking about the rice scheme. When there is an article about Suthep I will comment.

[oldthaihand99]

PTP implemented an unsustainable rice scheme to win votes. The DEMS said it would not work and the govt would not be able to pay for it. The PTP didn't listen and said we know best. The scheme failed due to the govt not being able to pay for it. It is the DEMS fault.

PTP LOGIC.

Not able to pay for it? Is the government broke or bankrupt? Incapable of printing money like the USA does?

"The GDP to debt ratio is still low so you can forget about all that bankruptcy nonsense. And as for corruption, according to the World Bank, it was somewhat better under Thaksin than under Abhisit and...oh...who was the other guy? Oh, yes. Suthep, a man whose personal corruption brought down the last elected Democrat government and who has since maintained his lifelong habit of shovelling as much public money into his own pockets as he can. But now – unfinished police-stations aside – he's magically become the saviour of public finances and – murder charges notwithstanding – the arbiter of what is right and wrong in public life. It's a plot twist of such a staggeringly stupid, unbelievable nature that even Channel 7 soap-writers wouldn't touch it. Really. If you want your transparently selfish, self-serving and, frankly, morally repulsive goals to be taken at least a little seriously, you're going to have to find a somewhat less cartoonishly hypocritical person to rally behind."

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/14/whats-behind-thai-protests/

I am sure others will jump all over this, but I wanted to get in first.

Not able to pay for it? Nope. They can't. The are a caretaker govt and have no money to pay for a rice scheme without getting a loan.

IOW they ARE able to pay for it, if:

1. they get a sufficient loan, or

2. they get ahold of enough newly printed money, or

3. they give back the rice that some farmers are demanding back, or

4. they sell the rice for that amount, or

5. the money stolen from TS is used for this, or

6. they use funds allocated for other unnecessary purposes, e.g. water flood control, or

7. they use funds which they have which you are not aware of, as you provided no evidence of your claim, just your word, or

8. after being reelected & no longer being a caretaker government, they have the funds, or

9. any combination of the above.

I rest my case, your honour.

[DGIE]

Mr Walit said farmers had submitted letters to the government twice, asking for speedy payment to them. (MCOT online news)

The problem is that, the government is not remedying millions but rather billion! Not just 2,3 or 10 billion.

If what I had read was correct, there is still 170 billion Baht to be paid to farmers.

[djjamie]

PTP implemented an unsustainable rice scheme to win votes. The DEMS said it would not work and the govt would not be able to pay for it. The PTP didn't listen and said we know best. The scheme failed due to the govt not being able to pay for it. It is the DEMS fault.

PTP LOGIC.

Not able to pay for it? Is the government broke or bankrupt? Incapable of printing money like the USA does?

"The GDP to debt ratio is still low so you can forget about all that bankruptcy nonsense. And as for corruption, according to the World Bank, it was somewhat better under Thaksin than under Abhisit and...oh...who was the other guy? Oh, yes. Suthep, a man whose personal corruption brought down the last elected Democrat government and who has since maintained his lifelong habit of shovelling as much public money into his own pockets as he can. But now – unfinished police-stations aside – he's magically become the saviour of public finances and – murder charges notwithstanding – the arbiter of what is right and wrong in public life. It's a plot twist of such a staggeringly stupid, unbelievable nature that even Channel 7 soap-writers wouldn't touch it. Really. If you want your transparently selfish, self-serving and, frankly, morally repulsive goals to be taken at least a little seriously, you're going to have to find a somewhat less cartoonishly hypocritical person to rally behind."

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/14/whats-behind-thai-protests/

I am sure others will jump all over this, but I wanted to get in first.

Not able to pay for it? Nope. They can't. The are a caretaker govt and have no money to pay for a rice scheme without getting a loan.

IOW they ARE able to pay for it, if:

1. they get a sufficient loan, or

2. they get ahold of enough newly printed money, or

3. they give back the rice that some farmers are demanding back, or

4. they sell the rice for that amount, or

5. the money stolen from TS is used for this, or

6. they use funds allocated for other unnecessary purposes, e.g. water flood control, or

7. they use funds which they have which you are not aware of, as you provided no evidence of your claim, just your word, or

8. after being reelected & no longer being a caretaker government, they have the funds, or

9. any combination of the above.

I rest my case, your honour.

1. they get a sufficient loan, (Shows the scheme is a failure.)

2. they get ahold of enough newly printed money, or (baht significantly devalued. Look no further than that other democracy, Zimbabwe's currency, for the effects of printing money to get out of trouble)

3. they give back the rice that some farmers are demanding back, or (good idea, but the PTP, but this is loss of face and the PTP apparently are never wrong)

4. they sell the rice for that amount, or (can't sell rice at 40% over market value)

5. the money stolen from TS is used for this, or (trolling) That comment says more about ones gullability that anything else.

6. they use funds allocated for other unnecessary purposes, e.g. water flood control, or (so rob Peter to pay Paul)

7. they use funds which they have which you are not aware of, as you provided no evidence of your claim, just your word, or (Pull the money out of thin air)

8. after being reelected & no longer being a caretaker government, they have the funds, or (so ensuring the failed unsustainable scheme continues and the loans get bigger and bigger and bigger and the interest gets bigger and bigger and bigger. Thats called unsustainable)

9. any combination of the above. (or they go with a sustainable rice scheme. Most farmers, millers, rice traders and exporters say they preferred the income-guarantee policy proposed for rice farmers by the Democrat Party) Even forbid the PTP listen to constructive advice.

So you still think this is a very successful flagship scheme of the PTP? Even when the people it is supposed to help are on the streets protesting not getting paid.

I would suggest you become the minister of propaganda for the PTP, but with the above arguments I doubt they would even hire you.

Print some money. Thats my favourite.

Edited January 18, 2014 by djjamie

[trainman34014]

Errrr; which Monday are the Farmers actually talking about ?

[oldthaihand99]

So you still think this is a very successful flagship scheme of the PTP?

I never commented on the success of it. Any government has 100's of items of business going on over the course of a term. It's unlikely they are going to bat a home run on every one of them. At least they helped the poor people get free medical care. How much is that worth & how many lives did it enrich & save?

P.S. BTW, how many billions or trillions have been lost through Suthep & BKK protests in the last 2 months?

Edited January 18, 2014 by oldthaihand99

[Thait Spot]

C'mon the Farmers, turn and bite. This is more significant than any bombings in BKK. When the red tide up north turns, the game must be up for the Family Business. The timing of this is probably worrying ShinCo, it couldn't have worked out worse. It almost seems as if it is planned and executed by Govt opposition. It will be such a gloriously delicious case of 'som nom naaaa' if it is the Rice Scham which takes the Government down ..... given enough rope, they hung themselves!!!!

After all the shootings and deaths in 2010, and after seeing these Bangkok people and Southerners spouting absolute filth and horrid remarks about Isaan in 2010 and 2013 and now 2014, there is zero chance, in my opinion, of any change in red feelings.

As has been said, Thaksin must be very happy with Suthep and Abhisit as they have turned what could have been a sticky patch into a solid united red vote PTP hoard, in my opinion.

Have you ever considered why YL and PTP tried to push the amnesty bill just at this moment in time, ever considered the response from the Democrats and Elite is just what they wanted and expected, and they fell into the trap and have now created a massive anti-Democrat Party feeling over most of Thailand ?

Just my view.

We see 2 million people turning out in Bangkok this week - many of them from Isaan - the truth today is that it has shown the depth of feeling against your puppet master who sits trying to control things from his penthouse. Massive anti democrat feeling in Bangkok? Remeber the Pheu Thai were virtually wiped out in Bangkok last election - only the red shirt Isan and Chiang Mai saved them!!

I thought you said you were educated ? if so maths wernt part of it. My dear chap nothing hes even been close to your number and BKK is not the rest of Thailand.

Making up numbers and pretending BKK is the be and end of all regarding peoples voting preference does not really make you very credible you know.

I believe a survey published over the past few days has shown that 20% of Bangkokians have attended the protest.

They font need to have all been there at the same time.

And this discounts the support from the rest of Thailand.

Starting Monday we will see the rice farmers get involved

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[oldthaihand99]

I believe a survey published over the past few days has shown that 20% of Bangkokians have attended the protest.

In the last 2 months total or in one day as Suthep claims?

Does this include all those who just stood by the road or at their shops as Suthep passed by?

What area was the survey conducted in, just those near the protest sites? The richer areas of the city?