To Barack Obama: Mr President, some facts you should know about the Thai political crisis

[newcomer71]

Some facts of this letter are undoubtedly true and well written, but the fact is that it's incomplete.

You cannot explain situation in Thailand only talking about Thaksin, because is not a full analysis but smell of biased view.

He should have also explained about endemic corruption in Thai society, corruption that had been not fight under Dems government.

He should have also explained about the obscure background of the protest leader, that preaches evil good and scratching.

He should have also explained how that dictatorship (as he calls it) has been replaced by a military coup and a judicial coup, and the temporary governments had before rewrote Constitution to prevent Thaksin gain power, then Democrats have had the chance to make reforms for more than 2 years but with no avail.

Also he should have also explained that Thailand needs a good and neutral leader. Able to overcome the hatred bring up from the two sides that only bring Thailand on the brink of a civil war or armed revolution. Someone who is not involved in the power games of the actual two leaders.

Khun Vanina also consider himself a pro-democracy, so he should have dissociated himself from some actions of the actual protest as the attack and siege of the place where Election Candidate Registration was held, provoking clash, with weapons, injured and deaths and trying to prevent (preventing in the South) people's rights to vote. That can't be called "civil" disobedience. But uprising, revolt. That's not democracy.

I read lots of this nonsense every day. And as it's clear Shinawatra should be able to think and give up on their influence in Thai politics, for Thais and Thailand, the same should be for many Dems, revolution leaders as Suthep, army leaders and police high ranks as well.

There's too much to do in this country and it can't be done in a short time. But is time for a change, not again with a coup. Not again with a dictatorship.

[Fryslan boppe]

I'm curious about the answers of some of the simplistic anti-Suthep pro Thaksin TV members

Let me not dissapoint you. Please forgive me for a repeat of a Post some time ago, that addresses your curiosity:

1..What are protests all about ....Not as stated being anti-Thaksin....They are about unelectables seeking alternative paths to political power. In this case via a coup, using either military, judicial or street activism as the vehicle. Coup-mongers seeking to cover their true motives started off with the anti-amnesty thing, then to anti-Thaksin rhetoric, than anti-electoral, than Electoral delay ostensibly for vague self-serving, holier-than-thou Reform demands. Bottom line, it as all election-avoidance, coup-intentioned, using contrived issues as cover. When one issue doesn't give them traction, they move to another one. It is noted that any of these issues could be "Parliamentirized", subject to electoral review by voters the next election.

2. Who are competing protest groups?...There are no competing protest groups. There is only one protest group comprising of electoral minorities with coup intentions in order to avoid an election they will lose. They have incited opposition to their non-democratic, non-electoral plans however. Elections do not serve these people well. They are trying to change electoral systemics rather than reforming themselves to appeal to a diverse Thai electorate.

3. What are the possible scenarios?...An election on Feb. 2nd. Anything else would effectively be a coup. Certainly not pro-Govt. protests by Red Shirts as reported above. Red Shirt activism is focussed on protecting Electoral Democracy in reaction to protests by those who want it otherwise. The notion that there are two protest groups is not correct. The Govt. attempts to mollify coup-mongers short of a coup is naive. Everything from shelving legislation on the basis of which they were elected, to dissolution of Parliament is evidence of that.

4. Could the army or courts intervene. Yes they could, depending on which vehicle the Electoral Minority elites prefer. At this point, it appears that the politicized judiciary is the preferred vehicle, and a number of initiatives have already been launched by the elites in this regard. International entities would look unfavorably on a coup using the military as the enablers. I am guessing it is felt that using the politicized judiciary would create enough smoke to cover what is called a 'judicial coup', considering that internationally the judiciary is considered normal.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Fryslan boppe

[Prbkk]

The twitters do offer some stunning insights and analysis:

Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize, you're a mile away with their shoes.

[LarryBird]

FWIW, the 'Thai Culture' aspect of it , is extremely overplayed. Thais act on incentives, just like everyone else. Who ever the main players are, and their backgrounds , etc etc, can be explained to Obama via the US Intel that is given to him. He will have a better understanding of the situation than the rest of us, sorry.

[Bakseeda]

Wow OP, as a US trained lawyer as you claim then you would understand that weather you, Suthep, the Dem's or whistle blowers like it or not,

that this government was elected and those trying to overthrow the government are not respecting the vote of the people, ie the democratic process,

Also you as a US trained lawyer you would also know that the correct way to remove a government leader is to impeach them, clearly show corruption or breaches of laws, but this has not been shown has it.

But the US are well known for their style of removing government they no longer have use for yes?

Scrambled eggs for brains it seems..

[geriatrickid]

The twitters do offer some stunning insights and analysis:

Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize, you're a mile away with their shoes.

As I said before, the self proclaimed "princess" is trying to survive in Bangkok. Let's cut her some slack. She may have been having a bad day and suffered a crisis. Maybe she ran out of skin whitening crème or Starbucks couldn't make her frappucino fast enough. Or maybe, one of those icky poor people touched her on the way to the beauty salon to get her nails done. Hopefully this won't impact her "important" litigation.

Edited January 20, 2014 by geriatrickid

[tonyPhuket]

http://nsnbc.me/2014/01/19/us-creeping-front-thailand/ this article seems to be more relevant to OP, I think...

[Thait Spot]

Wow OP, as a US trained lawyer as you claim then you would understand that weather you, Suthep, the Dem's or whistle blowers like it or not,

that this government was elected and those trying to overthrow the government are not respecting the vote of the people, ie the democratic process,

Also you as a US trained lawyer you would also know that the correct way to remove a government leader is to impeach them, clearly show corruption or breaches of laws, but this has not been shown has it.

But the US are well known for their style of removing government they no longer have use for yes?

What's the weather got to do with it?

Impeachment doesn't work if you have a majority in the house that vote for the party and not the truth.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[bkkfaranguy]

While much of this letter has truth along with propaganda, its kind of hypocritical and very typical of whats going on. Waa waa they did this and they did that, coming from both sides. Everyone knows that Thaksin is corrupt, just as everyone knows that the people opposing him are just as corrupt if not worse. Not a very smart move on the Senators part to be associated with such corrupt people he should have stayed nuetral. I would think that the USA probably knows far more whats going on than most of us here in Thailand, farang or Thai, with all the phone tapping, spying etc. that the do on a daily baisis.

I would also imagine Obama is very concerned about the policy of not allowing people to vote unless they meet the Dems education standards, if that ever where to gain traction in the USA democratic system his party would be in big trouble in the USA!

Edited January 20, 2014 by cdnvic
Fixed irregular font

[newcomer71]

Some facts of this letter are undoubtedly true and well written, but the fact is that it's incomplete.

You cannot explain situation in Thailand only talking about Thaksin, because is not a full analysis but smell of biased view.

He should have also explained about endemic corruption in Thai society, corruption that had been not fight under Dems government.

He should have also explained about the obscure background of the protest leader, that preaches evil good and scratching.

He should have also explained how that dictatorship (as he calls it) has been replaced by a military coup and a judicial coup, and the temporary governments had before rewrote Constitution to prevent Thaksin gain power, then Democrats have had the chance to make reforms for more than 2 years but with no avail.

Also he should have also explained that Thailand needs a good and neutral leader. Able to overcome the hatred bring up from the two sides that only bring Thailand on the brink of a civil war or armed revolution. Someone who is not involved in the power games of the actual two leaders.

Khun Vanina also consider himself a pro-democracy, so he should have dissociated himself from some actions of the actual protest as the attack and siege of the place where Election Candidate Registration was held, provoking clash, with weapons, injured and deaths and trying to prevent (preventing in the South) people's rights to vote. That can't be called "civil" disobedience. But uprising, revolt. That's not democracy.

I read lots of this nonsense every day. And as it's clear Shinawatra should be able to think and give up on their influence in Thai politics, for Thais and Thailand, the same should be for many Dems, revolution leaders as Suthep, army leaders and police high ranks as well.

There's too much to do in this country and it can't be done in a short time. But is time for a change, not again with a coup. Not again with a dictatorship.

Learn to write properly before you post in here...it helps us uneducated people understand what you are saying..!

Sorry, I am not an English native and I am trying my best to express my opinions.

Learn to respect other people before to post here as well. Bashing me for my English language skill does not bring anything to the discussion.

Edited January 20, 2014 by newcomer71

[asiaexpat]

Some facts of this letter are undoubtedly true and well written, but the fact is that it's incomplete.

You cannot explain situation in Thailand only talking about Thaksin, because is not a full analysis but smell of biased view.

He should have also explained about endemic corruption in Thai society, corruption that had been not fight under Dems government.

He should have also explained about the obscure background of the protest leader, that preaches evil good and scratching.

He should have also explained how that dictatorship (as he calls it) has been replaced by a military coup and a judicial coup, and the temporary governments had before rewrote Constitution to prevent Thaksin gain power, then Democrats have had the chance to make reforms for more than 2 years but with no avail.

Also he should have also explained that Thailand needs a good and neutral leader. Able to overcome the hatred bring up from the two sides that only bring Thailand on the brink of a civil war or armed revolution. Someone who is not involved in the power games of the actual two leaders.

Khun Vanina also consider himself a pro-democracy, so he should have dissociated himself from some actions of the actual protest as the attack and siege of the place where Election Candidate Registration was held, provoking clash, with weapons, injured and deaths and trying to prevent (preventing in the South) people's rights to vote. That can't be called "civil" disobedience. But uprising, revolt. That's not democracy.

I read lots of this nonsense every day. And as it's clear Shinawatra should be able to think and give up on their influence in Thai politics, for Thais and Thailand, the same should be for many Dems, revolution leaders as Suthep, army leaders and police high ranks as well.

There's too much to do in this country and it can't be done in a short time. But is time for a change, not again with a coup. Not again with a dictatorship.

The letter was obviously not intended to be an all encompassing history of Thai politics, but a plead to learn of the reasons behind a movement. Thailand is not a part of the USA and the view point quit different based on history and culture. US politicians have no responsibility or place in Thai politics and should refrain from remarks.

[icare999]

its high time those in west and a number of naive posters here were told the truth but of course like totally brainwashed reds I doubt some here would see truth if it kicked them in the face

[Prbkk]

Of course she's entitled to her opinion. I just don't see why that opinion is put here as news.

[templedog]

While much of this letter has truth along with propaganda, its kind of hypocritical and very typical of whats going on. Waa waaa they did this and they did that, coming from both sides. Everyone knows that Thaksin is corupt, just as everyone knows that the people opposing him are just as corrupt if not worse. Not a very smart move on the Senetors part to be associated with such corrupt people he should have stayed nuetral. I would also imagine that the USA probably knows far more whats going on than most of us here in Thailand farang or Thai, with all the phone tapping, spying etc. that the do on a daily baisis.

I would also imagine Obama is very concerned about the policy of not allowing people to vote unless they meet the Dems education standards, if that ever where to gain traction in a democratic system his party would be in big trouble in the USA!

Don't you think that The USA wouldn't bother with Thailand's problems had they not had a dog in the fight? I've read some things about a deal where Thaksin would allow USA military base expansion as the USA is trying to encircle China (google it). Also, I've read something about a USA Thaksin oil deal for the gulf waters in Thailand. Well, just some things I've read, but it makes perfect sense for USA gov't to go along with ANY corrupt regime, if there is something in it for them. History will clearly support that claim. Read some Chomsky, to start.

[NomadJoe]

Wow OP, as a US trained lawyer as you claim then you would understand that weather you, Suthep, the Dem's or whistle blowers like it or not,

that this government was elected and those trying to overthrow the government are not respecting the vote of the people, ie the democratic process,

Also you as a US trained lawyer you would also know that the correct way to remove a government leader is to impeach them, clearly show corruption or breaches of laws, but this has not been shown has it.

But the US are well known for their style of removing government they no longer have use for yes?

Democratic elections and be run, and won, illegally.

[Local Drunk]

FWIW, the 'Thai Culture' aspect of it , is extremely overplayed. Thais act on incentives, just like everyone else. Who ever the main players are, and their backgrounds , etc etc, can be explained to Obama via the US Intel that is given to him. He will have a better understanding of the situation than the rest of us, sorry.

Disagree... He'd be briefed and instruct a press secretary to write some seemingly innocuous and meaningless politically correct press release that bends towards whatever policies that the US currently has or is planning with Thailand.

Thai culture is the real reason that all of this mess is happening. It is the base of understanding Thai politics. If you don't understand the culture, then you can't understand the politics.

[jayboy]

Well written and 100% true. Good to educate some of the westerners who talk a lot about 'democracy' but don't seem to know the crimes which include the murders done under the Shinawatras.

And yes, the democratic system here has failed miserably.

Not actually very well written (verbose and lacking in structure) but let that pass.As a rejoinder to the Congressman's letter it is a failure because it veers from point to point aimlessly, and lacks a clear conclusion.

It concentrates on the abuses of the Thaksin era but omits mentioning the complicity of the army and the unwillingness/inability of the Abhisit government to pursue justice on these issues.

[Snig27]

Well written and 100% true. Good to educate some of the westerners who talk a lot about 'democracy' but don't seem to know the crimes which include the murders done under the Shinawatras.

And yes, the democratic system here has failed miserably.

Except it's kinda not true. But don't let that get in the way of your post. "the most tyrannical and dictatorial leader in history" - seriously? Did this lawyer buy her degree?

We know - and the Dems have admitted this - that the Dems spent more buying votes than PT last time, but it didn't work. There are facts in that letter, mixed with opinion masquerading as fact and plain untruths.

I'm no friend of Thaksin and his government but simply making stuff up and them hailing it as "100%" true does your argument no favours.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Snig27

[cdnvic]

Just a reminder that accusations that another member's opinion has been paid for will result in losing your posting privileges. It's an unfair, and rather cowardly debating tactic that we won't tolerate.

[Scamper]

This is a perfectly composed letter to Mr. Obama. No doubt he will not be surprised by the contents of this letter, as I'm sure he's pieced this together in his mind for some years now. As president of the United States, as always, he has to walk a very cautious line, because public opinion has not yet caught up with this issue - certainly not yet in the United States. The talking points have up to this point stressed the line of the administration - that this is the simple issue of holding an election. Those who know more about this know of course that that is not the case. Having said that, the situation on the ground is now so fluid and changing that it is becoming now clearer to international coverage. So that particular hurdle of perception will be an eventual reality. The United States will likely be the most cautious, however, in taking any definitive stance. Once the reform process is underway, they will likely take a wait and see approach. But in terms of tensions on the ground - privately at least - there will be something of a collective sigh of relief, as the country takes what will appear to be a step towards stability.

[iancnx]

I know I am naive.... But I'll say it anyway. Let's hope every newspaper in the land publishes this letter in Thai, that it is covered on Ch3, and discussed on every local radio station in the land.

[Kilgore Trout]

The US Gov. know about all that issues mention, but they don't care.

There isn't a true Democracy in US either with 2 Party system, or State in State system (NSA).

It's all about INFLUENCE and POWER

What is a "true" democracy?

In an absolute democracy if the majority deemed that the minority should be killed then that would be right, just and correct.....according to the principles of "democracy."

There is no such thing as a "true" democracy as we know that it would never work. The majority is sometimes wrong.

What we are hearing is all just rhetoric, and has nothing to do with "democracy."

[Ricardo]

It might be interesting to see the text, of the Congressman's original letter to President Obama, which the permanent secretary of defence Nipat Thnglek (who works for caretaker-DM Yingluck) reportedly showed to reporters yesterday, and which resulted in the reply in the OP ?

What has the Congressman been saying, about Thailand and the current situation, to which some Thais might take exception ?

I'd link to confirm that story, but it's in the BP, so can't.

[chooka]

I'd like to see the OP show just as much effort in reporting the history of Suthep and Mark and some of their associates,

I wonder if he can????????????

I wonder if you can stick to the subject instead of deflecting things into the tiresome " but Abhisit/Suthep..."?

Isn't Suthep an integral part of the subject?

Seeking the support of Obama / the U.S is well and fine but when you try and recruit by just giving a bias one sided plea isn't going to help. Sure Thaksin is a wanted criminal and no angel but if you wanted me to choose between two people I would be asking what is the history and current status of the other party. I want make a decision until I am provided with a complete unbiased profile of both then I may not choose either.

[KimoMax]

Obama and his Government could care less about dictatorial foreign governments.

He is like two peas in a pod to Mr T's style of doing things his way regardless of the people.

[chooka]

I'm curious about the answers of some of the simplistic anti-Suthep pro Thaksin TV members

Let me not dissapoint you. Please forgive me for a repeat of a Post some time ago, that addresses your curiosity:

1..What are protests all about ....Not as stated being anti-Thaksin....They are about unelectables seeking alternative paths to political power. In this case via a coup, using either military, judicial or street activism as the vehicle. Coup-mongers seeking to cover their true motives started off with the anti-amnesty thing, then to anti-Thaksin rhetoric, than anti-electoral, than Electoral delay ostensibly for vague self-serving, holier-than-thou Reform demands. Bottom line, it as all election-avoidance, coup-intentioned, using contrived issues as cover. When one issue doesn't give them traction, they move to another one. It is noted that any of these issues could be "Parliamentirized", subject to electoral review by voters the next election.

2. Who are competing protest groups?...There are no competing protest groups. There is only one protest group comprising of electoral minorities with coup intentions in order to avoid an election they will lose. They have incited opposition to their non-democratic, non-electoral plans however. Elections do not serve these people well. They are trying to change electoral systemics rather than reforming themselves to appeal to a diverse Thai electorate.

3. What are the possible scenarios?...An election on Feb. 2nd. Anything else would effectively be a coup. Certainly not pro-Govt. protests by Red Shirts as reported above. Red Shirt activism is focussed on protecting Electoral Democracy in reaction to protests by those who want it otherwise. The notion that there are two protest groups is not correct. The Govt. attempts to mollify coup-mongers short of a coup is naive. Everything from shelving legislation on the basis of which they were elected, to dissolution of Parliament is evidence of that.

4. Could the army or courts intervene. Yes they could, depending on which vehicle the Electoral Minority elites prefer. At this point, it appears that the politicized judiciary is the preferred vehicle, and a number of initiatives have already been launched by the elites in this regard. International entities would look unfavorably on a coup using the military as the enablers. I am guessing it is felt that using the politicized judiciary would create enough smoke to cover what is called a 'judicial coup', considering that internationally the judiciary is considered normal.

Watched the BBC news today and they say the protests are a result of Sutheps deep seated personal hatred of Yingluk and her family and he will not cease the protests until her entire family leave the country with just the clothes on their backs.

[Credo]

I am guessing that this letter will go in the file with the correspondence from Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez et. al..

[ChrisY1]

Wow OP, as a US trained lawyer as you claim then you would understand that weather you, Suthep, the Dem's or whistle blowers like it or not,

that

Also you as a US trained lawyer you would also know that the correct way to remove a government leader is to impeach them, clearly show corruption or breaches of laws, but this has not been shown has it.

But the US are well known for their style of removing government they no longer have use for yes?

"this government was elected and those trying to overthrow the government are not respecting the vote of the people, ie the democratic process, "

You're correct of course....PTP were elected....and there were some good populist policies implemented by the past Thaksin regimes.....Village fund, 30 Thb health fund & etc......however...in the highly populated North and NE regions prior to the last election, evidence is blatantly obvious of vote buying....(Youtube has several videos of Reds passing out 1000Thb bills for their vote).

Coupled with the massive corruption that is now coming to light....the NACC is due to charge several MPs and included YL...the people have had enough!

Albeit with plenty of notice again for these people to move their funds.

[Prbkk]

the CC to Michael Turner is interesting. He is the congressman being criticised by Tony Cartalucci. Michael Yon gets a tweet as well

Edited January 20, 2014 by Prbkk

[Snig27]

Obama and his Government could care less about dictatorial foreign governments.

He is like two peas in a pod to Mr T's style of doing things his way regardless of the people.

The US has a long history of preferring a friendly government over the rights of the people governed by that government and Obama has continued that unpleasant tradition, it's true. The US will do as the US thinks is best for the USA, as it did in Thailand in the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s and 1970s when it supported far worse regimes than anything the PT might represent, ahead of any democratic process. The United States failures to support the democratic processes in Thailand over those decades - preferring to support ruthless strongmen who were allies in the proxy cold wars - is a primary reason Thailand is in the mess it's in now. So, no Thaksin is not "the most tyrannical and dictatorial leader in history" even in Thai terms.

It's incredible how a person can be so educated (as implied by a law degree) and yet so oblivious to Thai history.