Thaksin corruption claims stoke Thai protest outrage

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand endures a complex relationship with corruption characterised by weak governance, opaque webs of political patronage and an expectation of under-the-table payments to get things done.

Demonstrators trying to rid the country of Thaksin's influence by ousting the government led by his sister Yingluck Shinawatra believe he has broken the kingdom's tacit contract with graft, says political commentator Voranai Vanijaka of the Bangkok Post.

"Thai people are quite pragmatic... we understand that everybody takes a little bite of the apple," he told AFP.

"The problem with Thaksin is that he put a sign on the whole apple tree saying 'property of the Shinawatra family'... that's dangerous to do here."

And herein lies the entire problem facing Thailand.

It will be a problem never resolved when it's the level of corruption that is tolerated, not that there is corruption. Who determines when that level is OK, or OTT? Who should be the beneficiaries of the corruption? Everyone, or just those who feel entitled?

Like everything here, there is supposedly a rule book, or laws, but they are subject to interpretation, and that interpretation depends on who you are, or how much you pay, (to ignore them). It's cultural, it's feudal. Unfortunately the country cannot progress unless it is addressed, which is very sad.

Thailand is a fantastic place, but consider how much more fantastic it could be.

There will always be corruption in any country, but start with the concept that it is illegal; start with observance and enforcement of the rule of law, for everyone, equally.

"I have a dream..."

It basically means that it is admitted that a politician is always under someone's thumb.

No wonder there is no principle in thailand when everyone is bent.

It's their culture to have the big man... which is why so many can't understand the politics here.

That's true. There is always a pooyai...always. With no pooyai, there is no hierarchy.

[Thaddeus]

Well, ... as we all knew, these protests have nothing to do with "reforms".

It is just about the hate for only one man.

What is a pity is that many people, Suthep and Abhisit in the front line, do not hesitate to destroy democracy, only because of their hate.

Totally irrational...

Removing that 'one man' would be a major reform in itself, for the better.

[Melyn]

That Land Scandal just wont go away.

Who is on it? surely there must be plots and maps of the land in question. Been very hushed up since the first coup. when they took over the DSI and lately when the PDRC raided the DSI again.

Co-incidence that last 2 coups revolved around this land grab investigation?

Sutheps followers really showing that they do not understand him, and showing they are far from the level oc critical or anylitacl thinking required to move Thailand forward... as they are on Red side as well.

Problem is that the Educated think they are above the poor.... They are not. They think in the same way and have their opinions dictated to them by their masters.

The reform here needs to go way way beyond Thaksin, and well into the Forces and the backers.... Or else.. It's just another Coup and grab for power.

It's a Coup unless you reform the army and courts as well. Any offers from them..... 555555555555555 in your dreams

Your constant invention straddles poor fiction and insanity with your land grab plot.

You also sound a bit like you're singing a duet with Jatuporn with coup coup as the chorus

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[SheungWan]

If this (together with the silly letter to Obama) is to be part of the international campaign to explain why Thaksin is no good, they can forget it. It won't work. No one in the west wants to hear: "this is Thailand, yes we are corrupt but that nasty guy just stole too much". That will be greeting with the derision it deserves.

The campaign needs to be: too much, NO more. Quite simple. How to achieve it..another matter entirely

"The campaign needs to be: too much, NO more. Quite simple. How to achieve it..another matter entirely"

Forgive me if I'm oversimplifying your point, but isn't that exactly what's going on right now...?

No, I don't believe so. I cannot imagine that a campaign, already announced, to explain why Thaksin is "toxic" will be given any credibility if part of the explanation includes the idea that a bit of corruption is culturally acceptable/normal. The whole focus has been on Thaksin...that is a huge and fundamental mistake, IMHO

I'm sure you would have also raised a laugh in the Philippines for saying 'Its Not About The Marcos Family'. Just a piss-poor attempt to deflect the heat really.

[ttthailand]

Its very simple....These problems will never end until corruption is not accepted at any level. To say that it is ok to be corrupt but not too corrupt is stupid , just stupid ! If you don't have to follow the laws or rules why would anyone limit themselves. It will never happen but you have to push for zero corruption. Plain and simple !

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Baerboxer]

Thaksin has been convicted for fraud, chose to flee and become a fugitive from justice rather than appeal and fight the conviction. There are numerous outstanding serious criminal charges for which some warrants have already been issued. Thaksin chooses not to fight these in the courts, The HR issues regarding his war on drugs and the Tae Bak massacre may also yet come back to haunt him.

His sister's government's response - illegally issue a new Thai passport to him, via his cousin the foreign minister, and refuse for over 2 years to answer the Ombudsman's questions or comment on it, openly meet with him and take advice from him, and then try to ram a blanket amnesty whitewash for him through parliament by cheating the parliamentary procedures. During this time his personal wealth has increased 450%

Hard to see how anyone, in the West or anywhere really, could take these corruption claims seriously.

[Prbkk]

Its very simple....These problems will never end until corruption is not accepted at any level. To say that it is ok to be corrupt but not too corrupt is stupid , just stupid ! If you don't have to follow the laws or rules why would anyone limit themselves. It will never happen but you have to push for zero corruption. Plain and simple !

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

absolutely. Even though some would say it's all about Thaksin, in fact, he is a distraction in their campaign....no matter what side of the fence you sit.

[gabruce]

"Let me tell you how it will be

There's one for you, nineteen for me

'Cause I'm the Thaksman, yeah, I'm the Thaksman"

very creative!!!

[Prbkk]

Thaksin has been convicted for fraud, chose to flee and become a fugitive from justice rather than appeal and fight the conviction. There are numerous outstanding serious criminal charges for which some warrants have already been issued. Thaksin chooses not to fight these in the courts, The HR issues regarding his war on drugs and the Tae Bak massacre may also yet come back to haunt him.

His sister's government's response - illegally issue a new Thai passport to him, via his cousin the foreign minister, and refuse for over 2 years to answer the Ombudsman's questions or comment on it, openly meet with him and take advice from him, and then try to ram a blanket amnesty whitewash for him through parliament by cheating the parliamentary procedures. During this time his personal wealth has increased 450%

Hard to see how anyone, in the West or anywhere really, could take these corruption claims seriously.

yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...but that argument can never be won with what is being presented now. It's so pathetic.....like lonely hearts night in the local OKE bar....they can never win with a strategy of "we will be less corrupt"

[PREM-R]

Well, your post is certainly "totally irrational", and whilst you can speak for yourself, you certainly can't speak for "all of us"...!

The current protests have everything to do with reforms, and those that are protesting don't harbor any hatred towards anyone in particular, that's the sole domain of the Red Shirt activists.

The destruction of democracy in Thailand has come about as a result of the greed of your beloved leader and his followers, and that is why the people are on the streets, because they have had enough of it.

You can continue to put a spin on anything anyone says, but you can never give a clear answer as to how this megalomaniac and his puppet government have been allowed to rape the country of its assets for so long with such impunity.

"you certainly can't speak for "all of us"...!"

Suthep says he speaks "For the People" but will not allow elections to take place in which "ALL of the people" would be able to speak for themselves.

"The current protests have everything to do with reforms, and those that are protesting don't harbor any hatred towards anyone in particular"

I am interested to know what these 'reforms' are, Suthep has never given any indication of what he wants other than to "Eradicate the Shinawatra family from Thailand". Doesn't eradication of an entire family indicate hatred towards them?

Once Suthep has removed democracy (the ability of the people to vote for their leaders) then it will never return, there will always be a "It's not the right time" or "The situation is too difficult for elections right now". If Suthep succeeds Thailand will never recover.

[Prbkk]

Well, your post is certainly "totally irrational", and whilst you can speak for yourself, you certainly can't speak for "all of us"...!

The current protests have everything to do with reforms, and those that are protesting don't harbor any hatred towards anyone in particular, that's the sole domain of the Red Shirt activists.

The destruction of democracy in Thailand has come about as a result of the greed of your beloved leader and his followers, and that is why the people are on the streets, because they have had enough of it.

You can continue to put a spin on anything anyone says, but you can never give a clear answer as to how this megalomaniac and his puppet government have been allowed to rape the country of its assets for so long with such impunity.

"you certainly can't speak for "all of us"...!"

Suthep says he speaks "For the People" but will not allow elections to take place in which "ALL of the people" would be able to speak for themselves.

"The current protests have everything to do with reforms, and those that are protesting don't harbor any hatred towards anyone in particular"

I am interested to know what these 'reforms' are, Suthep has never given any indication of what he wants other than to "Eradicate the Shinawatra family from Thailand". Doesn't eradication of an entire family indicate hatred towards them?

Once Suthep has removed democracy (the ability of the people to vote for their leaders) then it will never return, there will always be a "It's not the right time" or "The situation is too difficult for elections right now". If Suthep succeeds Thailand will never recover.

I agree. Looking at it from an anti-govt perspective, they need to dump Suthep right now and have those waiting in the shadows ( not in a sinister sense), stand up and be counted...to at least put up a decent ( political) fight

[KarenBravo]

Just love the way posters that support Suthep keep using The People to describe the anti-government protesters, conveniently forgetting the millions in the North and north-east who voted in the PTP.

Please don't think all TV posters are so dumb that we can't see through that little lie.

[Theoutsider]

What this, no honor among thieves.

[SheungWan]

Just love the way posters that support Suthep keep using The People to describe the anti-government protesters, conveniently forgetting the millions in the North and north-east who voted in the PTP. Please don't think all TV posters are so dumb that we can't see through that little lie.

We know some who can't see through Thaksin ^^^

[speedtripler]

have a look at sutheps history as far as corruption goes

he seems to be a very wealthy man who profited billions due to

a palm oil shortage when he was in charge of that and on another

occasion he was responsible for allocating land to the poor and ended up

giving it to his wealthy friends

sure ,thaksin scammed more $$$ but he had more opportunies as he was king of the castle

for longer ,suthep might have scammed as much or maybe more if he was in thaksins position

for that many years

suthep is more trustable because he scammed less billions from the taxpayer

so he should be the new leader ??

[transam]

Why has no Thai out there asked the protest leader has he ever paid or received corruption money..................

[Sealbash]

An Asian country without corruption. What a novel but unrealistic concept.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[transam]

An Asian country without corruption. What a novel but unrealistic concept. Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

For sure, but it seems the protest is about a certain families corruption, BUT the complainers are perhaps not corruption free, unless you know otherwise ?

[Thai at Heart]

Well, your post is certainly "totally irrational", and whilst you can speak for yourself, you certainly can't speak for "all of us"...!

The current protests have everything to do with reforms, and those that are protesting don't harbor any hatred towards anyone in particular, that's the sole domain of the Red Shirt activists.

The destruction of democracy in Thailand has come about as a result of the greed of your beloved leader and his followers, and that is why the people are on the streets, because they have had enough of it.

You can continue to put a spin on anything anyone says, but you can never give a clear answer as to how this megalomaniac and his puppet government have been allowed to rape the country of its assets for so long with such impunity.

"you certainly can't speak for "all of us"...!"

Suthep says he speaks "For the People" but will not allow elections to take place in which "ALL of the people" would be able to speak for themselves.

"The current protests have everything to do with reforms, and those that are protesting don't harbor any hatred towards anyone in particular"

I am interested to know what these 'reforms' are, Suthep has never given any indication of what he wants other than to "Eradicate the Shinawatra family from Thailand". Doesn't eradication of an entire family indicate hatred towards them?

Once Suthep has removed democracy (the ability of the people to vote for their leaders) then it will never return, there will always be a "It's not the right time" or "The situation is too difficult for elections right now". If Suthep succeeds Thailand will never recover.

Indeed.

If he doesn't come up with some meat on the bones if his policy, it's impossible to support him.

Presumably, any real reform would disqualify himself and his family from politics whilst claiming back massive amounts of I'll found wealth.

Is he man enough for that? What do you think?

[speedtripler]

An Asian country without corruption. What a novel but unrealistic concept. Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

For sure, but it seems the protest is about a certain families corruption, BUT the complainers are perhaps not corruption free, unless you know otherwise ?

there is nobody in contention who isnt crooked who might be able to win an election

thats the problem

everybody in politics has been dealing from the bottom of the deck if you care to check

them out

some of them have been caught stealing more than others but none of them seem fit or

qualified to run a country and i doubt any would pass an audit of their personal wealthy

compared to years worked x salary earned ......

[FangFerang]

Both sides are using ration to arrive at irrational conclusions. There is a really well balanced article written by The Nation, surprisingly, that deals with the issue from both sides, using two different writers who collaborated, front page titled "Non-Extremists are Reaching a Consensus".

[Chang_paarp]

Suthep accusing Thaksin of corruption is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Then he wants to be the upholder of democracy by removing the vote to those he deem unsuitable to vote.

[diehard60]

"Thai people are quite pragmatic... we understand that everybody takes a little bite of the apple," he told AFP." Wow that means that it is ok to have corruption and Thai people love it. I wonder who the idiot is that said that.

[fab4]

"And a recent survey by the University of the Thai Chamber of Commerce found that businesses were paying between 25-35 percent of the value of contracts to grease the palms of government officials, up from 5-10 percent in 1990".

If anybody is interested in the demographic spread of this "survey" it is this

The UTCC's Corruption Situation Index (CSI) is based on 2,400 respondents in the business and government sectors, and the score was 39 points in December last year, down from 41 points in June. This level is regarded as critical, as above 40 is considered moderate. The closer a CSI score is to zero, the higher the level of corruption, while 100 shows high transparency and a lack of graft.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/markets/news/article.asp?docKey=600-201401170001KRTRIB__BUSNEWS_23714_26137-1

So it's "critically" 1 point below moderate according to their interpretation...............

[patjem]

"Let me tell you how it will be

There's one for you, nineteen for me

'Cause I'm the Thaksman, yeah, I'm the Thaksman"

One for Juttaporn to sing:

He is the head man

We are his henchmen

And I am a Walrus, coup! coup! coup! coup!

[badmedicine]

 

IIRC the whole thought process behind initially backing Thaksin was he's so rich he won't need to be corrupt. Well they got that one wrong didn't they?

Nope, I never heard that one before. Thaksin's whole selling point has always been "Yeah, he's corrupt, but he's a strong leader who gets things done". In contrast, Abhisit was seen (after his first and likely only shoe-in as PM) as weak and ineffectual. All talk and no trousers.

Even some of those who supported the ouster of Thaksin in 2006 turned round and voted for Yingluck in 2011 because they felt that the country would move forward (economically) better under Thaksin-by-phone than under Suthep-by-Abhisit.

Sad state of affairs. The Dems need to dump Abhisit quick sharp, and if the affiliates and second-rung lieutenants of PTP/TRT lot have any sense, they'll find a way to politically prosper without Thaksin and his toxic family.

[Spartakos]

Thailand endures a complex relationship with corruption characterised by weak governance, opaque webs of political patronage and an expectation of under-the-table payments to get things done.

Demonstrators trying to rid the country of Thaksin's influence by ousting the government led by his sister Yingluck Shinawatra believe he has broken the kingdom's tacit contract with graft, says political commentator Voranai Vanijaka of the Bangkok Post.

"Thai people are quite pragmatic... we understand that everybody takes a little bite of the apple," he told AFP.

"The problem with Thaksin is that he put a sign on the whole apple tree saying 'property of the Shinawatra family'... that's dangerous to do here."

And herein lies the entire problem facing Thailand.

It will be a problem never resolved when it's the level of corruption that is tolerated, not that there is corruption. Who determines when that level is OK, or OTT? Who should be the beneficiaries of the corruption? Everyone, or just those who feel entitled?

Like everything here, there is supposedly a rule book, or laws, but they are subject to interpretation, and that interpretation depends on who you are, or how much you pay, (to ignore them). It's cultural, it's feudal. Unfortunately the country cannot progress unless it is addressed, which is very sad.

Thailand is a fantastic place, but consider how much more fantastic it could be.

There will always be corruption in any country, but start with the concept that it is illegal; start with observance and enforcement of the rule of law, for everyone, equally.

"I have a dream..."

Corruption is endemic and institutionalized here, with or without Thaksin's involvement, and backed by some very big players. Thaksin and his cronies are corrupt, but consider this:

Do people really believe that Thaksin is solely responsible for all the corruption that Thailand suffers and endures, or that his brand of corruption is an worse or any different than that of the other leeches who have been bleeding the people of Thailand dry for so long?

Do people really believe that the Thaksin's influence is wholly responsible for the day to day corruption perpetrated by the back street gangsters and mafia bosses where I live.

Where I work, the local cops get paid of by the bloke who sells copy DVD's outside 7/11, the street vendors pay off the market inspectors and the local money lender operates in plain view. Who's responsible for that? Thaksin?

People have short memories. The past and recent history of Thailand's corruption - political or otherwise - is littered with cases: The Klong Dam project, the Hopewell project and the Klong Chan Credit Union scandals to name but a few.

Politics in Thailand is a business opportunity, plain and simple.

When the Thaksin influence finally dissipates, you can bet with 100% certainty that there will be others - the usual suspects? - who will pick up the pieces and carry on as they have always done.

And if Thaksin ifluence does not fade away soon I ( and most of the protesters) am afraid that there will not be other person in power for a looong time. You got to admit that his side is not even a side, or party, or clan ,or family it literally is 1 man who wields the power. Can continue this line of thoughts and suggest an even more lucrative position than president that he aims for. That is outright scary prospect, forget the corruption.

[Bernard Flint]

Thailand endures a complex relationship with corruption characterised by weak governance, opaque webs of political patronage and an expectation of under-the-table payments to get things done.

Demonstrators trying to rid the country of Thaksin's influence by ousting the government led by his sister Yingluck Shinawatra believe he has broken the kingdom's tacit contract with graft, says political commentator Voranai Vanijaka of the Bangkok Post.

"Thai people are quite pragmatic... we understand that everybody takes a little bite of the apple," he told AFP.

"The problem with Thaksin is that he put a sign on the whole apple tree saying 'property of the Shinawatra family'... that's dangerous to do here."

And herein lies the entire problem facing Thailand.

It will be a problem never resolved when it's the level of corruption that is tolerated, not that there is corruption. Who determines when that level is OK, or OTT? Who should be the beneficiaries of the corruption? Everyone, or just those who feel entitled?

Like everything here, there is supposedly a rule book, or laws, but they are subject to interpretation, and that interpretation depends on who you are, or how much you pay, (to ignore them). It's cultural, it's feudal. Unfortunately the country cannot progress unless it is addressed, which is very sad.

Thailand is a fantastic place, but consider how much more fantastic it could be.

There will always be corruption in any country, but start with the concept that it is illegal; start with observance and enforcement of the rule of law, for everyone, equally.

"I have a dream..."

Why would it be MUCH more fantastic.I thought middle class farangs love corruption,they drink and drive,and the few brain cells they have left,think they can buy themselves out of trouble.

Drive without a crash helmet,one gets 400 baht fine,some say, 200 if its offered to khun policeman.Even beating someon to a pulp can be addresses with a big envelope.Drive bike on pavement,up and down the soi,the wrong way,do i need to go on.Corruption is endemic in Thailand whether red, yellow or pink

[julemanden]

IIRC the whole thought process behind initially backing Thaksin was he's so rich he won't need to be corrupt. Well they got that one wrong didn't they?

More wants more...

[JRSoul]

"And a recent survey by the University of the Thai Chamber of Commerce found that businesses were paying between 25-35 percent of the value of contracts to grease the palms of government officials, up from 5-10 percent in 1990".

If anybody is interested in the demographic spread of this "survey" it is this

The UTCC's Corruption Situation Index (CSI) is based on 2,400 respondents in the business and government sectors, and the score was 39 points in December last year, down from 41 points in June. This level is regarded as critical, as above 40 is considered moderate. The closer a CSI score is to zero, the higher the level of corruption, while 100 shows high transparency and a lack of graft.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/markets/news/article.asp?docKey=600-201401170001KRTRIB__BUSNEWS_23714_26137-1

So it's "critically" 1 point below moderate according to their interpretation...............

I bet you've said "But I only just failed!" many times.