Thaksin corruption claims stoke Thai protest outrage

[jpeg]

" Thai people are quite pragmatic... we understand that everybody takes a little bite of the apple. The problem with Thaksin is that he put a sign on the whole apple tree saying 'property of the Shinawatra family'... that's dangerous to do here. "

This analogy says it perfectly. In so doing Thaksin crosses " the line " . It is a line understood in Thai culture, between dipping and outright possession. But Thaksin has also been very transparent, bold, even boastful about it. That's another no-no. He wants it all.

And the people are saying no.

We must then applaud Taksin for (albeit inadvertently) bringing the issue of endemic corruption to the fore. As so many posters on here seriously believe a 500 baht vehicular fine (bribe) haven't equated this with say, fraudulently changing/filing documents to steal someone's property or paying a bribe to allow a condominium to be built slap up against someone's one storey house, a 'resort' on park land. They ARE all the same. You can't be a 'little bit pregnant'. you're corrupt, or you're not.

BTW As to K Voranai, I am slightly sickened by the gushing expats who see him as 'one of us'. Much like them being overawed by the sight of a chimp wandering out of the jungle and ordering a G&T. Don't be so condescending.

[samuiwonder]

The name of this website is Thai Visa. Why are all you Thai's on here expressing your vitriolic, polar opinions. Get the hell off this website and go

express yourself in your own "free press" or at the ballot box or on the streets. Just take your poisonous speech of this site.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jpeg]

The name of this website is Thai Visa. Why are all you Thai's on here expressing your vitriolic, polar opinions. Get the hell off this website and go express yourself in your own "free press" or at the ballot box or on the streets. Just take your poisonous speech of this site. Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Firstly, WHO THE HELL ARE YOU????

[KarenBravo]

A wannabe moderator......obviously.

[build6]

An Asian country without corruption. What a novel but unrealistic concept. Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I'm told pretty good things about Singapore.

[Jonmarleesco]

Apathetic, rather than pragmatic, better describes the Thais' view of corruption. But it's difficult to argue with Noppadon's disputing that the Shinawatras monopolise corruption. It does, after all, take two to 'tangle'.

[Jonmarleesco]

Thailand endures a complex relationship with corruption characterised by weak governance, opaque webs of political patronage and an expectation of under-the-table payments to get things done.

Demonstrators trying to rid the country of Thaksin's influence by ousting the government led by his sister Yingluck Shinawatra believe he has broken the kingdom's tacit contract with graft, says political commentator Voranai Vanijaka of the Bangkok Post.

"Thai people are quite pragmatic... we understand that everybody takes a little bite of the apple," he told AFP.

"The problem with Thaksin is that he put a sign on the whole apple tree saying 'property of the Shinawatra family'... that's dangerous to do here."

And herein lies the entire problem facing Thailand.

It will be a problem never resolved when it's the level of corruption that is tolerated, not that there is corruption. Who determines when that level is OK, or OTT? Who should be the beneficiaries of the corruption? Everyone, or just those who feel entitled?

Like everything here, there is supposedly a rule book, or laws, but they are subject to interpretation, and that interpretation depends on who you are, or how much you pay, (to ignore them). It's cultural, it's feudal. Unfortunately the country cannot progress unless it is addressed, which is very sad.

Thailand is a fantastic place, but consider how much more fantastic it could be.

There will always be corruption in any country, but start with the concept that it is illegal; start with observance and enforcement of the rule of law, for everyone, equally.

"I have a dream..."

Why would it be MUCH more fantastic.I thought middle class farangs love corruption,they drink and drive,and the few brain cells they have left,think they can buy themselves out of trouble.

Drive without a crash helmet,one gets 400 baht fine,some say, 200 if its offered to khun policeman.Even beating someon to a pulp can be addresses with a big envelope.Drive bike on pavement,up and down the soi,the wrong way,do i need to go on.Corruption is endemic in Thailand whether red, yellow or pink

And Thais don't drink and drive? Though they might be safer on the road in that state.

[ilovemuangthai]

Small time corruption is quite allowable

Thaksin did it really big

This for us is not acceptable

Be practical - we are all a little corrupt

Let's march the streets

To make sure that Thaksin should never erupt

We the people are not the idealistic kind

We prefer to differ

Why should we strain our happy minds ?

[rametindallas]

Looking back to the time when Thaksin first appeared in court charge with concealing assets and was acquitted by a majority of one vote, the judge whose vote was credited with achieving the majority was quoted as saying he believed Thaksin was guilty but because he was PM decided to give him a chance.

I have no idea where that judge is now or even if he's still alive but I wonder if he ever looked back in later years and considered what his vote had meant to the country.

A couple of years later, the judge's son got a scholarship to an English university c/o Thaksin

[rametindallas]

And the protesting side officials have never paid or received corruption payments eh ?.. .......................

Non of the protest leaders were responsible for 2,500 extra-judicial killings of Thais in the name of drug suppression. Non of the protest leaders took a relatively peaceful Malay South from a situation where the Army, through the SBPC, was beginning to give the locals control of their lives and turned it over to the Police which is why the South is 'restive' now. Non of the protest leaders had their rubber-stamp government loan Burma billions to buy telecoms services from Thaksin's telecoms company, Non of the protest leaders have run the country from abroad because they are a felon, convicted of graft, and on the run to avoid a prison sentence. Non of the protest leaders paid a Red mob to descend on Bangkok, choke the central business district, pour blood on the PM's residence, invade a hospital, burn buildings, kill soldiers, shoot grenades at BTS stations, etc.

Lastly, none of the protest leaders will be a part of the group that writes the new reform rules nor will they serve in a future government. Too bad you can't see the difference between the protest leaders and Thaksin Shinawatra.

[rametindallas]

Well, ... as we all knew, these protests have nothing to do with "reforms".

It is just about the hate for only one man.

What is a pity is that many people, Suthep and Abhisit in the front line, do not hesitate to destroy democracy, only because of their hate.

Totally irrational...

Well... what could that one man have done to generate so much hatred?

[farang4thailand]

You've seen the news reports, read the newspapers now see what the current Thai government really wants!!



Thai people no matter whether red or yellow all share a common goal and love for their country, this is what the government really wants!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu23Ob4BA3o&feature=youtu.be

[rametindallas]

That Land Scandal just wont go away.

Who is on it? surely there must be plots and maps of the land in question. Been very hushed up since the first coup. when they took over the DSI and lately when the PDRC raided the DSI again.

Co-incidence that last 2 coups revolved around this land grab investigation?

Sutheps followers really showing that they do not understand him, and showing they are far from the level oc critical or anylitacl thinking required to move Thailand forward... as they are on Red side as well.

Problem is that the Educated think they are above the poor.... They are not. They think in the same way and have their opinions dictated to them by their masters.

The reform here needs to go way way beyond Thaksin, and well into the Forces and the backers.... Or else.. It's just another Coup and grab for power.

It's a Coup unless you reform the army and courts as well. Any offers from them..... 555555555555555 in your dreams

Your constant invention straddles poor fiction and insanity with your land grab plot.

You also sound a bit like you're singing a duet with Jatuporn with coup coup as the chorus

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Pipkin doesn't write original posts; he simply repeats Red Shirt propaganda.

[Thai at Heart]

You've seen the news reports, read the newspapers now see what the current Thai government really wants!!

Thai people no matter whether red or yellow all share a common goal and love for their country, this is what the government really wants!!!

Problem is, if all sides of the debate love Thailand , how can one be wrong and one be right.

This is a bit like a Jew, a Moslem and a christian sitting in hospital arguing about whether they are a going to heaven.

[rametindallas]

have a look at sutheps history as far as corruption goes

he seems to be a very wealthy man who profited billions due to

a palm oil shortage when he was in charge of that and on another

occasion he was responsible for allocating land to the poor and ended up

giving it to his wealthy friends

sure ,thaksin scammed more $$$ but he had more opportunies as he was king of the castle

for longer ,suthep might have scammed as much or maybe more if he was in thaksins position

for that many years

suthep is more trustable because he scammed less billions from the taxpayer

so he should be the new leader ??

he seems to be a very wealthy man who profited billions due to

a palm oil shortage when he was in charge of that and on another

occasion he was responsible for allocating land to the poor and ended up

giving it to his wealthy friends

If you gave real evidence of Suthep's guilt, you should bring it to the authorities, I'm sure the Yingluck/(Thaksin) government would love to see it. As far as I know, Suthep has never been charged with those crimes so why do you bring it up? (to distract form the current government's corruption?) Thaksin was charged and convicted and chose not to contest his conviction, even though he had won most court cases against himself before. That tells me he knew he was guilty.

BTW Maybe you haven't got the message. Suthep will not be part of any reform committee nor will he hold any political office once this corrupt government resigns.

[rametindallas]

An Asian country without corruption. What a novel but unrealistic concept. Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

How about an Asian country without a wannabe dictator?

[tomyummer]

The reason Thailand's infrastructure and government projects are such a mess is because of this inflation of tea money. It's true, I remember in the mid 90's it was only 10% and now it's over 30%. Each and every project is that much weaker and under developed. And the foreign taxpayers contribute to that unwillingly. Sucks.

[rametindallas]

" Thai people are quite pragmatic... we understand that everybody takes a little bite of the apple. The problem with Thaksin is that he put a sign on the whole apple tree saying 'property of the Shinawatra family'... that's dangerous to do here. "

This analogy says it perfectly. In so doing Thaksin crosses " the line " . It is a line understood in Thai culture, between dipping and outright possession. But Thaksin has also been very transparent, bold, even boastful about it. That's another no-no. He wants it all.

And the people are saying no.

We must then applaud Taksin for (albeit inadvertently) bringing the issue of endemic corruption to the fore. As so many posters on here seriously believe a 500 baht vehicular fine (bribe) haven't equated this with say, fraudulently changing/filing documents to steal someone's property or paying a bribe to allow a condominium to be built slap up against someone's one storey house, a 'resort' on park land. They ARE all the same. You can't be a 'little bit pregnant'. you're corrupt, or you're not.

BTW As to K Voranai, I am slightly sickened by the gushing expats who see him as 'one of us'. Much like them being overawed by the sight of a chimp wandering out of the jungle and ordering a G&T. Don't be so condescending.

We must then applaud Taksin for (albeit inadvertently) bringing the issue of endemic corruption to the fore

Here, let me slice you with my knife and then you can applaud me for bringing the fact that knives are dangerous, to the fore.

[smedly]

Thailand endures a complex relationship with corruption characterised by weak governance, opaque webs of political patronage and an expectation of under-the-table payments to get things done.

Demonstrators trying to rid the country of Thaksin's influence by ousting the government led by his sister Yingluck Shinawatra believe he has broken the kingdom's tacit contract with graft, says political commentator Voranai Vanijaka of the Bangkok Post.

"Thai people are quite pragmatic... we understand that everybody takes a little bite of the apple," he told AFP.

"The problem with Thaksin is that he put a sign on the whole apple tree saying 'property of the Shinawatra family'... that's dangerous to do here."

And herein lies the entire problem facing Thailand.

It will be a problem never resolved when it's the level of corruption that is tolerated, not that there is corruption. Who determines when that level is OK, or OTT? Who should be the beneficiaries of the corruption? Everyone, or just those who feel entitled?

Like everything here, there is supposedly a rule book, or laws, but they are subject to interpretation, and that interpretation depends on who you are, or how much you pay, (to ignore them). It's cultural, it's feudal. Unfortunately the country cannot progress unless it is addressed, which is very sad.

Thailand is a fantastic place, but consider how much more fantastic it could be.

There will always be corruption in any country, but start with the concept that it is illegal; start with observance and enforcement of the rule of law, for everyone, equally.

"I have a dream..."

The level of corruption is out of hand when it's bankrupting the country as PTP are doing now - the fact they even asked the Agri Bank to pay rice bills from reserves and depositors is quite frankly shocking - we'll pay you back later - sounds like insolvency and they would do anything to get money

[tingtongteesood]

Well, ... as we all knew, these protests have nothing to do with "reforms".

It is just about the hate for only one man.

What is a pity is that many people, Suthep and Abhisit in the front line, do not hesitate to destroy democracy, only because of their hate.

Totally irrational...

Total rubbish from your red addled self as usual.

They have everything to do with reforms and they can't happen whilst your dearly beloved leader fugitive skiing on the sand dunes has any power here as he won't allow them to because he wants to keep robbing the country blind as he has done continually for much of the last 10 years....

The only people destroping democracy are Taksin and the Please Taksin party...

Yes, they are totally irrational, much like yourself...

[Baerboxer]

Thaksin has been convicted for fraud, chose to flee and become a fugitive from justice rather than appeal and fight the conviction. There are numerous outstanding serious criminal charges for which some warrants have already been issued. Thaksin chooses not to fight these in the courts, The HR issues regarding his war on drugs and the Tae Bak massacre may also yet come back to haunt him.

His sister's government's response - illegally issue a new Thai passport to him, via his cousin the foreign minister, and refuse for over 2 years to answer the Ombudsman's questions or comment on it, openly meet with him and take advice from him, and then try to ram a blanket amnesty whitewash for him through parliament by cheating the parliamentary procedures. During this time his personal wealth has increased 450%

Hard to see how anyone, in the West or anywhere really, could take these corruption claims seriously.

yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...but that argument can never be won with what is being presented now. It's so pathetic.....like lonely hearts night in the local OKE bar....they can never win with a strategy of "we will be less corrupt"

Indeed - but this thread is about Thaksin and his corrupt behaviors. Too many people want to divert attention from those facts and play them down with pitiful excuses like blaming others before him. This situation is very contextualized by Thaksin and is thirst to return whitewashed and take power officially again, Painting him as some kind of people's savior is, quite frankly <deleted> with his track record.

Eliminating corruption will require a massive mindset and behavioral change, over time and with very careful open and transparent change management. Can you see anyone currently involved capable of this?

[speedtripler]

have a look at sutheps history as far as corruption goes

he seems to be a very wealthy man who profited billions due to

a palm oil shortage when he was in charge of that and on another

occasion he was responsible for allocating land to the poor and ended up

giving it to his wealthy friends

sure ,thaksin scammed more $$$ but he had more opportunies as he was king of the castle

for longer ,suthep might have scammed as much or maybe more if he was in thaksins position

for that many years

suthep is more trustable because he scammed less billions from the taxpayer

so he should be the new leader ??

he seems to be a very wealthy man who profited billions due to

a palm oil shortage when he was in charge of that and on another

occasion he was responsible for allocating land to the poor and ended up

giving it to his wealthy friends

If you gave real evidence of Suthep's guilt, you should bring it to the authorities, I'm sure the Yingluck/(Thaksin) government would love to see it. As far as I know, Suthep has never been charged with those crimes so why do you bring it up? (to distract form the current government's corruption?) Thaksin was charged and convicted and chose not to contest his conviction, even though he had won most court cases against himself before. That tells me he knew he was guilty.

BTW Maybe you haven't got the message. Suthep will not be part of any reform committee nor will he hold any political office once this corrupt government resigns.

Google it or go back and newsapers if you dont belive ,there are many sources of information regarding the whole afair ,yinluck is not in any position to talk about corruption or accuse anyone without it blowing back 100 fold on her but that doesnt prove sutheps is not bent and most crimes have by both of them have went "unproved"

thaksin ordered a shitload of murders without trials in 2002 did he not ? and nobody has ever charged him with that so get your "evidence "

before asking me for mine

[boomerangutang]

IIRC the whole thought process behind initially backing Thaksin was he's so rich he won't need to be corrupt. Well they got that one wrong didn't they?

I remember that. It's a reflection of the Thai psyche, that such a warped concept could even be floated, let alone embraced by so many suckers.

".....too rich to be corrupted by offers of money." Uh huh. Here's another one: Buy this 300 baht talisman in the shape of Minnie Mouse, I made it out from tin can top. Hang it in your car, and you'll be immune from evil ghosts and car wrecks. Buy ten and get an added one free!

[Thai at Heart]

Thaksin has been convicted for fraud, chose to flee and become a fugitive from justice rather than appeal and fight the conviction. There are numerous outstanding serious criminal charges for which some warrants have already been issued. Thaksin chooses not to fight these in the courts, The HR issues regarding his war on drugs and the Tae Bak massacre may also yet come back to haunt him.

His sister's government's response - illegally issue a new Thai passport to him, via his cousin the foreign minister, and refuse for over 2 years to answer the Ombudsman's questions or comment on it, openly meet with him and take advice from him, and then try to ram a blanket amnesty whitewash for him through parliament by cheating the parliamentary procedures. During this time his personal wealth has increased 450%

Hard to see how anyone, in the West or anywhere really, could take these corruption claims seriously.

yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...but that argument can never be won with what is being presented now. It's so pathetic.....like lonely hearts night in the local OKE bar....they can never win with a strategy of "we will be less corrupt"

Indeed - but this thread's is about Thaksin and his corrupt behaviors. Too many people want to divert attention from those facts and play them down with pitiful excuses like blaming others before him. This situation is very contextualized by Thaksin and is thirst to return whitewashed and take power officially again, Painting him as some kind of people's savior is, quite frankly <deleted> with his track record.

Eliminating corruption will require a massive mindset and behavioral change, over time and with very careful open and transparent change management. Can you see anyone currently involved capable of this?

Yes and no. If it's a matter of looking for solutions, pointing out the hypocrisy of the opposition is hardly clouding the issue.

Why trust someone who is so obviously lacking principles. Why trust someone with such a dubious history. It cuts both ways.

Thaksin is a corrupt man, but so are the rest. That's the truth of the matter and if you are searching for a solution does bring is own problems.

This is not a problem of absolute solutions. Thaksin bad, so the others good. That is extremely childish. It is not diverting the issue but a reality.

Do you really trust Suthep to put something in place that will reform the government to improve the future for all Thais?

I am not remotely convinced.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[BirdsandBooze]

In effect what the author is saying is that the Democrats corrupt politicians are less corrupt than Thaksin and his gang but it's okay because they're skimming off less cream. The ordinary people protesting might have high ideals about ending corruption but the reality is that those bankrolling these protests seek to replace the present incumbents feeding head and shoulders in the trough with themselves, but will be less obvious about their misdemeanors.

[bigbamboo]

Thailand endures a complex relationship with corruption characterised by weak governance, opaque webs of political patronage and an expectation of under-the-table payments to get things done.

Demonstrators trying to rid the country of Thaksin's influence by ousting the government led by his sister Yingluck Shinawatra believe he has broken the kingdom's tacit contract with graft, says political commentator Voranai Vanijaka of the Bangkok Post.

"Thai people are quite pragmatic... we understand that everybody takes a little bite of the apple," he told AFP.

"The problem with Thaksin is that he put a sign on the whole apple tree saying 'property of the Shinawatra family'... that's dangerous to do here."

And herein lies the entire problem facing Thailand.

It will be a problem never resolved when it's the level of corruption that is tolerated, not that there is corruption. Who determines when that level is OK, or OTT? Who should be the beneficiaries of the corruption? Everyone, or just those who feel entitled?

Like everything here, there is supposedly a rule book, or laws, but they are subject to interpretation, and that interpretation depends on who you are, or how much you pay, (to ignore them). It's cultural, it's feudal. Unfortunately the country cannot progress unless it is addressed, which is very sad.

Thailand is a fantastic place, but consider how much more fantastic it could be.

There will always be corruption in any country, but start with the concept that it is illegal; start with observance and enforcement of the rule of law, for everyone, equally.

"I have a dream..."

It basically means that it is admitted that a politician is always under someone's thumb.

No wonder there is no principle in thailand when everyone is bent.

It's their culture to have the big man... which is why so many can't understand the politics here.

Are we back to Nine Inch Nookey again?

[tilac2]

And the protesting side officials have never paid or received corruption payments eh ?.. .......................

Non of the protest leaders were responsible for 2,500 extra-judicial killings of Thais in the name of drug suppression. Non of the protest leaders took a relatively peaceful Malay South from a situation where the Army, through the SBPC, was beginning to give the locals control of their lives and turned it over to the Police which is why the South is 'restive' now. Non of the protest leaders had their rubber-stamp government loan Burma billions to buy telecoms services from Thaksin's telecoms company, Non of the protest leaders have run the country from abroad because they are a felon, convicted of graft, and on the run to avoid a prison sentence. Non of the protest leaders paid a Red mob to descend on Bangkok, choke the central business district, pour blood on the PM's residence, invade a hospital, burn buildings, kill soldiers, shoot grenades at BTS stations, etc.

Lastly, none of the protest leaders will be a part of the group that writes the new reform rules nor will they serve in a future government. Too bad you can't see the difference between the protest leaders and Thaksin Shinawatra.

You omitted another difference between the protest leaders and Thaksin. Thaksin is widely admired all over the N/NE of Thailand. The protest leaders are not.

Certainly one can't admire everything that Thaksin did, but I think it's a bit much to belabour him for the War on drugs. Such a war was suggested by His Majesty who appreciated how Thaksin had handled it. The war or campaign was quite effective in limiting drug use. And no extrajudicial killings were linked to Thaksin's government despite the best efforts of his opponents to find such. I might add that, at the time the campaign was going on, I can't recall any reports of Thai villagers being seen wandering round in tears wailing, "Oh woe is me: someone's killed our local drug dealers".

[3NUMBAS]

you cant eradicate corruption as its in their DNA ,one corrupt lot of piggys will only be replaced by a similar trough of piggys ,with an insatiable appetite to gobble up more of the countries wealth instead of for the common good. look at old Rayban monk nengkham still on the run after chiseling billions from some unknown source and never heard of him again .theyre all at it

[Thaddeus]

The name of this website is Thai Visa. Why are all you Thai's on here expressing your vitriolic, polar opinions. Get the hell off this website and go express yourself in your own "free press" or at the ballot box or on the streets. Just take your poisonous speech of this site. Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

This may just be a wild stab in the dark, but I'm guessing that you were not on your schools debating team.

[rametindallas]

have a look at sutheps history as far as corruption goes

he seems to be a very wealthy man who profited billions due to

a palm oil shortage when he was in charge of that and on another

occasion he was responsible for allocating land to the poor and ended up

giving it to his wealthy friends

sure ,thaksin scammed more $$$ but he had more opportunies as he was king of the castle

for longer ,suthep might have scammed as much or maybe more if he was in thaksins position

for that many years

suthep is more trustable because he scammed less billions from the taxpayer

so he should be the new leader ??

he seems to be a very wealthy man who profited billions due to

a palm oil shortage when he was in charge of that and on another

occasion he was responsible for allocating land to the poor and ended up

giving it to his wealthy friends

If you gave real evidence of Suthep's guilt, you should bring it to the authorities, I'm sure the Yingluck/(Thaksin) government would love to see it. As far as I know, Suthep has never been charged with those crimes so why do you bring it up? (to distract form the current government's corruption?) Thaksin was charged and convicted and chose not to contest his conviction, even though he had won most court cases against himself before. That tells me he knew he was guilty.

BTW Maybe you haven't got the message. Suthep will not be part of any reform committee nor will he hold any political office once this corrupt government resigns.

Google it or go back and newsapers if you dont belive ,there are many sources of information regarding the whole afair ,yinluck is not in any position to talk about corruption or accuse anyone without it blowing back 100 fold on her but that doesnt prove sutheps is not bent and most crimes have by both of them have went "unproved"

thaksin ordered a shitload of murders without trials in 2002 did he not ? and nobody has ever charged him with that so get your "evidence "

before asking me for mine

thaksin ordered a shitload of murders without trials in 2002 did he not ?

If you believe that, why do you keep trying to put Suthep in he same category as a mass murderer? Why are you trying to make them morally equivalent? Why are you still taking Thaksin's side?