Living in Chiang Mai on $500 a month?

[pomchop]

Misleading headline....the article link actually says $1100 a month....which I suspect is attainable unless you are supporting some Thais and a booze and western food type habit. I have no doubt that it can be done in Chiang Rai for even less.

5. Chiang Mai, Thailand

Monthly budget: $1,100

Monthly rent: $400

[northernjohn]

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If you want to live like a Thai no problems with $500 per month.

2000 baht will get you a room with fan so that leaves you with 12000 to spend on all the other important things. Enjoy.

First you say $500 a month no problem

Misleading headline....the article link actually says $1100 a month....which I suspect is attainable unless you are supporting some Thais and a booze and western food type habit. I have no doubt that it can be done in Chiang Rai for even less.



5. Chiang Mai, Thailand

Monthly budget: $1,100

Monthly rent: $400

Then you say $1,100 a month you think is attainable.

Of course it is as many teachers live on it. But they tend to change careers or go home after a while. Many of them augment the income with tutoring and still leave the profession.

[uptheos]

Who said "poor Thais"? The other poster said "Thais" which I would take to mean lower middle-class on up. And YES when they travel on Air Asia, Nok Air, etc within their own country they buy travel insurance for 189 Baht.

I never realized it was that cheap. for that matter never considered it as the wife and I only get out of the country for short terms. But at that rate I will in the future insure her. Can you tell me where this travel insurance is available?

You really must read posts more carefully.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

If you want to live like a Thai no problems with $500 per month.

We live like any other Thai family in the same income group and we spend a lot more than $500.

But if you must link income to ethnicity then you may get closer (on average) with Burmese/Shan people.

[VegasVic]

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If you want to live like a Thai no problems with $500 per month.

We live like any other Thai family in the same income group and we spend a lot more than $500.

But if you must link income to ethnicity then you may get closer (on average) with Burmese/Shan people.

I think what balo was saying that if you live like the average Thai family then you can get along on $500/mo, not like any other Thai family in "your" particular income group as you put it I didn't read any prejudice or ethnic slight to Thais in his post, it was more a statement of fact, perhaps you need to lighten up a little

[uptheos]

Many years ago I lived on the top of a mountain in Chiang Rai for 6 months of the cool dry season.

The village is Lisu and I am a very good friend of a Dr. who also has a very modest house there.

I have to say that it was probably the most friendliest and helpful place that I have ever lived.

I shared a bamboo house with one Lisu guy, got involved in the work and helped with the nice P flowers at the time.

I can't say that I was ever bored, though night times were harder, centred around eating and copious amounts of moonshine.

If I had used $500 there I would have been seen as Lord of the Manor.

I've often thought in dire circumstances or terminal illness I might take that option again.

The care and pain relief would certainly be much superior to the lowland.

[amexpat]

"The care and pain relief would certainly be much superior to the lowland."

Nancy L has posted eye-opening and sobering information to the contrary. I think she knows.

[uptheos]

"The care and pain relief would certainly be much superior to the lowland."

Nancy L has posted eye-opening and sobering information to the contrary. I think she knows.

I think Nancy knows that pain relief in Thailand sucks!

Care, she knows a lot about and give some very helpful advice.

[amexpat]

Would Lisu pain relief be of a combustible nature?

[Dante99]

"The care and pain relief would certainly be much superior to the lowland."

Nancy L has posted eye-opening and sobering information to the contrary. I think she knows.

Where is this information from Nancy L about care and pain relief in Lisu villages compared to lowland care and pain relief? I can not recall her discussing hill tribe villages and would like to see what she has to say about them.

[amexpat]

Villages, country living, away from city hospitals, not necessarily hill tribe, OK?

[Dante99]

Villages, country living, away from city hospitals, not necessarily hill tribe, OK?

No not really ok. The differences from a Lisu village to what you mention are very large, it appears that you have little understanding of Lisu village life if you are able to consider it to simply be the same as living away from city hospitals.

[amexpat]

You are apparently very eager to exhibit your knowledge of Lisu villages, irrelevant though it is to this discussion.

Go ahead if you like. But I can wait for your book.

[uptheos]

Villages, country living, away from city hospitals, not necessarily hill tribe, OK?

No not really ok. The differences from a Lisu village to what you mention are very large, it appears that you have little understanding of Lisu village life if you are able to consider it to simply be the same as living away from city hospitals.

Probably thinks it's one of those places you stop off at as you glide along the river on a bamboo raft with six other tourists.

Lisu villages high up have certainly changed from the Lisu villages of 20-30 years ago, but they still have access to many things the lowland people do not.

[uptheos]

You are apparently very eager to exhibit your knowledge of Lisu villages, irrelevant though it is to this discussion.

Go ahead if you like. But I can wait for your book.

It's not irrelevant at all, we are discussing ways people from all walks of life might live on $500 a month.

It seems some people want to restrict it to 'how to live in a nice condo, eat drink and be merry....mainly at Dukes and have a bar social life' on $500 a month.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

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If you want to live like a Thai no problems with $500 per month.

We live like any other Thai family in the same income group and we spend a lot more than $500.

But if you must link income to ethnicity then you may get closer (on average) with Burmese/Shan people.

I think what balo was saying that if you live like the average Thai family then you can get along on $500/mo, not like any other Thai family in "your" particular income group as you put it I didn't read any prejudice or ethnic slight to Thais in his post, it was more a statement of fact, perhaps you need to lighten up a little

I'm perpetually lightened up. But the average Thai family lives on more than $500 a month.

Especially in urban areas in and around Chiang Mai, which is presumably where this budget applies. (Retirees would live in/around urban Chiang Mai)

[Dante99]

You are apparently very eager to exhibit your knowledge of Lisu villages, irrelevant though it is to this discussion.

Go ahead if you like. But I can wait for your book.

After you post THREE times related to Lisu villages, then you decide that somebody else doing it is not relevant to the discussion! Are you drunk?

It is not about my knowledge, it is about your lack of knowledge which you have demonstrated clearly.

[NancyL]

No, I know nothing about end-of-life care and pain relief in Lisu villages.

But I do know that end-of-life care for terminal illnesses involves more than just pain relief and I wonder if a Lisu village would be the best place to receive that care.

What people don't realize is that the end-of-life process is often slow and one loses control of important functions and abilities. Would the people in a Lisu village be able to bathe and dress a large westerner? How about access to adult incontinence products and laundry facilities for bedding? Would someone be available to turn the patient every few hours to prevent bedsores? Could palatable food appealing to western tastes be prepared and feed to someone who has largely lost the ability to chew and shallow? What about supplying stimulation via music, entertainment, and conversation in the person's native language using appropriate cultural touchstones to keep the person mentally centered? Would someone be available to discuss concerns and fears about what was to come using the same spiritual framework as the person?

And then there's the very real concern about pain control. Uptheos thinks that "Lisu moonshine" would do a good job of delivering pain control. How is that administered? Orally? What happens when the person can not longer swallow or vomits everything taken orally? Can "Lisu moonshine" be administered other forms -- like as a dermal patch, how about an IV drip, or maybe as a suppository?

Some of the common forms of end-of-life pain control aren't even available in hospitals here in Thailand. And forms of pain control that are permitted in a home hospice setting in the west must only be administered in hospitals here. Yes, Thailand is at least two generations behind the west with end-of-life care and I would expect the Lisu villages would be even further behind. I don't doubt their compassion and caring, but I just don't think they have the knowledge or resources to handle the needs of a western person who is much, much physically larger than a Lisu person.

Also, I've observed Thai people at the end of life and they somehow seem to be much more stoic and accepting. Or at least they don't seem to be in as much pain and they are much more sensitive to pain killing drugs. There are undoubtedly differences in spiritual traditions that account for this and probably even biology, but it could partially account for the reason that often the westerner's pleas for pain relief go unheeded.

[BritManToo]

Lisu are incorrigible growers of Opium poppies.

I'm thinking that their older people are pain free.

[uptheos]

No, I know nothing about end-of-life care and pain relief in Lisu villages.

But I do know that end-of-life care for terminal illnesses involves more than just pain relief and I wonder if a Lisu village would be the best place to receive that care.

What people don't realize is that the end-of-life process is often slow and one loses control of important functions and abilities. Would the people in a Lisu village be able to bathe and dress a large westerner? How about access to adult incontinence products and laundry facilities for bedding? Would someone be available to turn the patient every few hours to prevent bedsores? Could palatable food appealing to western tastes be prepared and feed to someone who has largely lost the ability to chew and shallow? What about supplying stimulation via music, entertainment, and conversation in the person's native language using appropriate cultural touchstones to keep the person mentally centered? Would someone be available to discuss concerns and fears about what was to come using the same spiritual framework as the person?

And then there's the very real concern about pain control. Uptheos thinks that "Lisu moonshine" would do a good job of delivering pain control. How is that administered? Orally? What happens when the person can not longer swallow or vomits everything taken orally? Can "Lisu moonshine" be administered other forms -- like as a dermal patch, how about an IV drip, or maybe as a suppository?

Some of the common forms of end-of-life pain control aren't even available in hospitals here in Thailand. And forms of pain control that are permitted in a home hospice setting in the west must only be administered in hospitals here. Yes, Thailand is at least two generations behind the west with end-of-life care and I would expect the Lisu villages would be even further behind. I don't doubt their compassion and caring, but I just don't think they have the knowledge or resources to handle the needs of a western person who is much, much physically larger than a Lisu person.

Also, I've observed Thai people at the end of life and they somehow seem to be much more stoic and accepting. Or at least they don't seem to be in as much pain and they are much more sensitive to pain killing drugs. There are undoubtedly differences in spiritual traditions that account for this and probably even biology, but it could partially account for the reason that often the westerner's pleas for pain relief go unheeded.

I did not say that!!!

My reference to moonshine was....... "I can't say that I was ever bored, though night times were harder, centred around eating and copious amounts of moonshine.

That whole paragraph is BS.

I did not say and I will not say exactly what kind of pain relief is superior to the lowlands!

[balo]

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If you want to live like a Thai no problems with $500 per month.

We live like any other Thai family in the same income group and we spend a lot more than $500.

But if you must link income to ethnicity then you may get closer (on average) with Burmese/Shan people.

I think what balo was saying that if you live like the average Thai family then you can get along on $500/mo, not like any other Thai family in "your" particular income group as you put it I didn't read any prejudice or ethnic slight to Thais in his post, it was more a statement of fact, perhaps you need to lighten up a little

I'm perpetually lightened up. But the average Thai family lives on more than $500 a month.

Especially in urban areas in and around Chiang Mai, which is presumably where this budget applies. (Retirees would live in/around urban Chiang Mai)

Can we get this converted into baht please , easier to understand the budget , $500 with todays rate is 16420 baht

No, a whole Thai family will struggle to live on that alone, but in a family more than one is working so they will probably have around 40k to pay for all the bills and feed the family .

If you're single you only have to think about yourself, right? So a room with a fan is around 2-3000 baht . Still 13000 baht to live on which in my opinion is more than enough if you live on Thai food and do not buy expensive clothes etc. You can even afford a beer once in a while.

[elektrified]

U will see the option on checkout when you book online.

Most of the budget airlines add it in unless you opt out at checkout before payment

You can also buy travel insurance from the banks....very cheap.

[NancyL]

No, I know nothing about end-of-life care and pain relief in Lisu villages.

But I do know that end-of-life care for terminal illnesses involves more than just pain relief and I wonder if a Lisu village would be the best place to receive that care.

What people don't realize is that the end-of-life process is often slow and one loses control of important functions and abilities. Would the people in a Lisu village be able to bathe and dress a large westerner? How about access to adult incontinence products and laundry facilities for bedding? Would someone be available to turn the patient every few hours to prevent bedsores? Could palatable food appealing to western tastes be prepared and feed to someone who has largely lost the ability to chew and shallow? What about supplying stimulation via music, entertainment, and conversation in the person's native language using appropriate cultural touchstones to keep the person mentally centered? Would someone be available to discuss concerns and fears about what was to come using the same spiritual framework as the person?

And then there's the very real concern about pain control. Uptheos thinks that "Lisu moonshine" would do a good job of delivering pain control. How is that administered? Orally? What happens when the person can not longer swallow or vomits everything taken orally? Can "Lisu moonshine" be administered other forms -- like as a dermal patch, how about an IV drip, or maybe as a suppository?

Some of the common forms of end-of-life pain control aren't even available in hospitals here in Thailand. And forms of pain control that are permitted in a home hospice setting in the west must only be administered in hospitals here. Yes, Thailand is at least two generations behind the west with end-of-life care and I would expect the Lisu villages would be even further behind. I don't doubt their compassion and caring, but I just don't think they have the knowledge or resources to handle the needs of a western person who is much, much physically larger than a Lisu person.

Also, I've observed Thai people at the end of life and they somehow seem to be much more stoic and accepting. Or at least they don't seem to be in as much pain and they are much more sensitive to pain killing drugs. There are undoubtedly differences in spiritual traditions that account for this and probably even biology, but it could partially account for the reason that often the westerner's pleas for pain relief go unheeded.

I did not say that!!!

My reference to moonshine was....... "I can't say that I was ever bored, though night times were harder, centred around eating and copious amounts of moonshine.[/size]

That whole paragraph is BS.[/size]

I did not say and I will not say exactly what kind of pain relief is superior to the lowlands![/size]

And Uptheos, as I pointed out in my little essay, there is much more to end-of-life care than delivering pain control, especially if it's available in just one form. I doubt the people in a Lisu village are equipped to provide the full spectrum of needs for a terminally ill person and that person will have a fairly barbaric end, as do others here who are living on $500 per month and have a long, painful terminal illness.

[uptheos]

No, I know nothing about end-of-life care and pain relief in Lisu villages.

But I do know that end-of-life care for terminal illnesses involves more than just pain relief and I wonder if a Lisu village would be the best place to receive that care.

What people don't realize is that the end-of-life process is often slow and one loses control of important functions and abilities. Would the people in a Lisu village be able to bathe and dress a large westerner? How about access to adult incontinence products and laundry facilities for bedding? Would someone be available to turn the patient every few hours to prevent bedsores? Could palatable food appealing to western tastes be prepared and feed to someone who has largely lost the ability to chew and shallow? What about supplying stimulation via music, entertainment, and conversation in the person's native language using appropriate cultural touchstones to keep the person mentally centered? Would someone be available to discuss concerns and fears about what was to come using the same spiritual framework as the person?

And then there's the very real concern about pain control. Uptheos thinks that "Lisu moonshine" would do a good job of delivering pain control. How is that administered? Orally? What happens when the person can not longer swallow or vomits everything taken orally? Can "Lisu moonshine" be administered other forms -- like as a dermal patch, how about an IV drip, or maybe as a suppository?

Some of the common forms of end-of-life pain control aren't even available in hospitals here in Thailand. And forms of pain control that are permitted in a home hospice setting in the west must only be administered in hospitals here. Yes, Thailand is at least two generations behind the west with end-of-life care and I would expect the Lisu villages would be even further behind. I don't doubt their compassion and caring, but I just don't think they have the knowledge or resources to handle the needs of a western person who is much, much physically larger than a Lisu person.

Also, I've observed Thai people at the end of life and they somehow seem to be much more stoic and accepting. Or at least they don't seem to be in as much pain and they are much more sensitive to pain killing drugs. There are undoubtedly differences in spiritual traditions that account for this and probably even biology, but it could partially account for the reason that often the westerner's pleas for pain relief go unheeded.

I did not say that!!!

My reference to moonshine was....... "I can't say that I was ever bored, though night times were harder, centred around eating and copious amounts of moonshine.[/size]

That whole paragraph is BS.[/size]

I did not say and I will not say exactly what kind of pain relief is superior to the lowlands![/size]

And Uptheos, as I pointed out in my little essay, there is much more to end-of-life care than delivering pain control, especially if it's available in just one form. I doubt the people in a Lisu village are equipped to provide the full spectrum of needs for a terminally ill person and that person will have a fairly barbaric end, as do others here who are living on $500 per month and have a long, painful terminal illness.

What people can or cannot do has nothing to do with your ashamedly, deliberate misquote!!

Saying "Uptheos thinks that "Lisu moonshine" would do a good job of delivering pain" is an outright lie!

Shame on you Nancy!

[amexpat]

Nancy L, please keep up the good work and don't waste any more of your time on this nonsense ^

[Bill97]

And then there's the very real concern about pain control. Uptheos thinks that "Lisu moonshine" would do a good job of delivering pain control. How is that administered? Orally? What happens when the person can not longer swallow or vomits everything taken orally? Can "Lisu moonshine" be administered other forms -- like as a dermal patch, how about an IV drip, or maybe as a suppository?

I just don't think they have the knowledge or resources to handle the needs of a western person who is much, much physically larger than a Lisu

.[/quote)

That is hilarious Nancy.

Dozens of elfin Lisau folks (known to be dramatically smaller than Thais) scampering around an obese farang applying dermal patches, inserting suppositories and arranging ropes and pulleys to roll them over.

Moonshine as a painkiller? Lisau are way ahead of that. How about a little respect?

[NancyL]

OK, Uptheos and HML367 -- you've got a point.

As I admitted, I know nothing about the end-of-life care and pain relief options available for foreigners in Lisu village. I didn't know this was an option that existed. Obviously my education has been lacking.

Could you please send me a PM about how to get in touch and help me to expand the range of resources that can be presented to those in need? Yes, McKean is definitely an option here, as is returning to one's home country (if one is still able to travel), so is getting set up for in-home care, or undergoing end-of-life in one of the private or government hospitals. There are many options and each has their own pluses and minuses. I'd like to learn about this option that is new to me, so I can add it to the list of options I present to people when they first contact me after receiving devastating news.

Part of what Lanna Care Net, Cancer Connect and other organizations here does is to help educate people about the end-of-life care options available and to guide them thru the process. It's a real shame if you're aware of a good path and not sharing it with others.

[hml367]

You indicated you did not want any PM's from me. No problem there for me.

Uptheos probably knows more about Thailand, and Chiang Mai in particular, than most foreigners in Chiang Mai will ever know.

As for you getting knowledge about what a Lisu village can or cannot provide, I would say go live in one for a while and keep an open mind. There used to be homestay available in Lisu villages as a "tourist attraction". That would not be anything like living there among them for obvious reasons.. I don't know if that is still an option. There were things attached to the homestay many years ago that attracted a certain group of people. That, also, is not the same as living among them. It would take some time living among them to gain any valuable knowledge of their customs, care for elders, etc. I believe many hilltribe communities worship the ancestors and elders, among other things.

All of that being typed, there are places you can visit in Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, and I am sure other places, which can give a rudimentary knowledge of such things. As was noted in an earlier post.... you have to spend time outside of the Ring Roads.

[northernjohn]

I hope your knowledge of the Lisu is better than your knowledge of what all Nancy does. If not you know nothing.

In favor of the Lisu people I would imagine all though there medical knowledge is not up to the Ram Hospital knowledge their comforting and support of the dying is probably better than the Ram.

As for pain I don't know.

A learned man once told me that the people who accepted that they are dying were for the most part not in as much pain as those who did not accept it. Not having the knowledge of the Lisu villages that some do I could be wrong but I think that death to them is a more real thing. They accept it better.

Just my ideas.

Edit Just read Nancy's request for the knowledge. Knowing a bit more about what she does I think it is a reasonable request and I hope uptheos responds to it with good information.

hm1367

Clumsy way of dodging the issue why don't you just come out and say you know nothing or not bother to reply at all. It was a reasonable request.

[NancyL]

My only regret is that I've not had an opportunity to learn more about how a Lisu village can assist an dying westerner. I've spent many hours, some of them hours overnight, next to the side of people dying at McKean, Suan Dok, CM Ram, Sripat, and at home. And less intense hours with ill people at McCormick, Rajavej and Nakorn Ping Hospitals. I have a better-than-average idea of how the end-of-life process works in those settings and I place myself in a very visible situation to help others who want to learn more if they find they must embark on that unfortunate journey.

Now, uptheos and hml367 come along and claim to be aware of another option and can only insult me because I'm not offering this option to the terminally ill. I can admit I was wrong in belittling the option to go to a Lisu village for end-of-life, but only after I've had a chance to evaluate it. And telling me to "head off to a Lisu village and live with them for a while" isn't an answer. I didn't form my opinion of end-of-life care at any of the institutions mentioned above by simply showing up and asking to hang out for a time. I was invited there to assist a specific person.