Another one bites the dust...

[David48]

really out of curiosity, i notice that you did have more than 3000 messages on tv, so here my question: Are you one of those members

who spent their times claiming how much their gf/wife is different, that she come from a good family, she is so honest, you can trust her with you life, she will never harm you, she is the best thing that did happen in your life, and she love you maak????!

(Well inspite of warning, the cultural gap, language barriere, difference of wealth, her family, etc etc)

Because if you are one of them, who spent his times to spread myths and <deleted> on tv, well in fact you might have fooled some other members, but the biggest victims is...you!

Now its time for some weeks holidays, and after to start to build back yourself, and dont run again in the same problems as it seems that some never learn.......

I am tempted to side your opinion, as the OP , with over 3200 posts on ThaiVisaForum, has obviously spend too much time behind the keyboard and left business to his Wife.

When you make the goat a gardener, don't cry over trampled,crushed and devoured flowers !!

I would be tempted for you to think outside your comment above.

Many guys, myself included, have lot's of posts here, but don't live on the forum.

We have our computer open for business and are occasionally tempted to read and post.

I know the OP well from this Forum over the years, and he is one of the good guys ... a 'Cricket Tragic', but that's another story.

Actually I applaud to the OP for coming forward with his story and shared it warts and all with no apologies or excuses for his Business mistakes he made. It's not another rehashed 'Thai Girl did me wrong' tale of woe.

This Forum is a better place for members like brit1984.

His OP is a lesson, or a reminder to us all of the perils of doing business in the Kingdom from his unique perspective.

[brit1984]

Sorry, for clarity on a few points...

Debts are mostly personal loans from mutual friends or people who I respect, hence why I will repay.

Our accountants were not responsible for handling cash / bank accounts, so it's not their fault. I trusted / allowed my wife to perform the treasury function, which was one of many stupid mistakes I made.

As my wife has not been paying rents, the landlords hold all the power and will support us to form new legal entities without my wife involved.

She has indeed defrauded the business, although sueing her would be pointless as we are quite sure she has already gambled away every baht but it remains an option for later.

My kids were living with us until this kicked off but they are better off with the in-laws until I get things under control, not least because the 20,000/month for the nanny is a luxury I cannot afford/justify right now.

After what has happened, I don't fully trust anyone (despite the in-laws appearing to be on my side) and am taking steps to protect my kids and secure custody of them, although my wife has never really bonded with them (I know that may be hard to imagine for anyone who has not met such a person).

Having Accountants that didn't warn you of large cash transactions,was no point in having them in the first place,and secondly,did you not look over,your Bank Statements? at least once a month?

I never looked at bank statements once in 4 years! I know that is stupid.

[brit1984]

Sorry, for clarity on a few points...

Debts are mostly personal loans from mutual friends or people who I respect, hence why I will repay.

Our accountants were not responsible for handling cash / bank accounts, so it's not their fault. I trusted / allowed my wife to perform the treasury function, which was one of many stupid mistakes I made.

As my wife has not been paying rents, the landlords hold all the power and will support us to form new legal entities without my wife involved.

She has indeed defrauded the business, although sueing her would be pointless as we are quite sure she has already gambled away every baht but it remains an option for later.

My kids were living with us until this kicked off but they are better off with the in-laws until I get things under control, not least because the 20,000/month for the nanny is a luxury I cannot afford/justify right now.

After what has happened, I don't fully trust anyone (despite the in-laws appearing to be on my side) and am taking steps to protect my kids and secure custody of them, although my wife has never really bonded with them (I know that may be hard to imagine for anyone who has not met such a person).

Having Accountants that didn't warn you of large cash transactions,was no point in having them in the first place,and secondly,did you not look over,your Bank Statements? at least once a month?

No need to rub it in IMO. OP, i perceive, knows already the mistakes he has made. What has been done cannot be changed anymore.

It's ok - criticism is often more useful than praise.

Having accountants more involved in the banking process is a good idea.

[brit1984]

I am curious what kind of business you were running. Can you do Bankruptcy 7,11, 13, or whatever in Thailand? Have the banks sell some assets, put her on the hook for whatever she signed, etc... and then move on in some sort of restructuring agreement? Loan sharks are something that seem need to be paid immediately. I have a feeling they are not covered in bankruptcy court. anyhow, i would also try to sell equity, create incentives for your employees, and, above all else, move forward. easier said than done.

We have an informal restructuring agreement / plan in place already. We could do bankruptcy but not much point as most debts are personal loans and most of our trade creditors have been reasonable about this. Anyway, we don't really need the entity that was controlled/owned by wife and can operate in the same with a new entity without her.

Basically landlords can control and keep all profit until they are made good then we will distribute all profits between lenders/other creditors equally thereafter, with exceptions made for any lender requiring (with good reason) faster repayment, and then we will negotiate a new shareholding structure once debts have been repaid or repaid down to reasonable levels, including any lenders who prefer to swap for equity.

Actually I have no intention of paying loan sharks ahead of other genuine lenders, or to pay them their outrageous (and un-contracted) interest rates. They have no rights to anything in the business (as all lease contracts in my wife's name have been cancelled by landlords) and they have already contacted my in-laws and seem willing to accept a much lower amount to settle (seems they have already made double/triple their money back from my wife, and she gave them a car as security anyway).

I have some professional restructuring experience as I used to work as a debt investor for a hedge fund in London, which I left to have (I thought) a less stressful life doing a family business together with my wife. One of the painful (or funny) ironies in all this (given the effect my wife's gambling habit has had on me) is that while still working I helped save/restructure a big casino/gaming company!

[brit1984]

really out of curiosity, i notice that you did have more than 3000 messages on tv, so here my question: Are you one of those members

who spent their times claiming how much their gf/wife is different, that she come from a good family, she is so honest, you can trust her with you life, she will never harm you, she is the best thing that did happen in your life, and she love you maak????!

(Well inspite of warning, the cultural gap, language barriere, difference of wealth, her family, etc etc)

Because if you are one of them, who spent his times to spread myths and <deleted> on tv, well in fact you might have fooled some other members, but the biggest victims is...you!

Now its time for some weeks holidays, and after to start to build back yourself, and dont run again in the same problems as it seems that some never learn.......

I am tempted to side your opinion, as the OP , with over 3200 posts on ThaiVisaForum, has obviously spend too much time behind the keyboard and left business to his Wife.

When you make the goat a gardener, don't cry over trampled,crushed and devoured flowers !!

You make a good point about the number of posts I have made on ThaiVisa but just to put it in perspective I am at my computer screen 15-20 hours/day (almost everyday) mostly for work and sometimes we all need a break.

I use the forum much less than I used to over recent months but in many ways the forum/its members have helped me, including your constructive criticism (which I very much appreciate).

I knew my wife was a goat and I was ok for her eat my flowers but I (maybe stupidly) did not expect her to jump over the high walls and eat the flowers in my neighbours' gardens.

[brit1984]

really out of curiosity, i notice that you did have more than 3000 messages on tv, so here my question: Are you one of those members

who spent their times claiming how much their gf/wife is different, that she come from a good family, she is so honest, you can trust her with you life, she will never harm you, she is the best thing that did happen in your life, and she love you maak????!

(Well inspite of warning, the cultural gap, language barriere, difference of wealth, her family, etc etc)

Because if you are one of them, who spent his times to spread myths and <deleted> on tv, well in fact you might have fooled some other members, but the biggest victims is...you!

Now its time for some weeks holidays, and after to start to build back yourself, and dont run again in the same problems as it seems that some never learn.......

I am tempted to side your opinion, as the OP , with over 3200 posts on ThaiVisaForum, has obviously spend too much time behind the keyboard and left business to his Wife.

When you make the goat a gardener, don't cry over trampled,crushed and devoured flowers !!

I would be tempted for you to think outside your comment above.

Many guys, myself included, have lot's of posts here, but don't live on the forum.

We have our computer open for business and are occasionally tempted to read and post.

I know the OP well from this Forum over the years, and he is one of the good guys ... a 'Cricket Tragic', but that's another story.

Actually I applaud to the OP for coming forward with his story and shared it warts and all with no apologies or excuses for his Business mistakes he made. It's not another rehashed 'Thai Girl did me wrong' tale of woe.

This Forum is a better place for members like brit1984.

His OP is a lesson, or a reminder to us all of the perils of doing business in the Kingdom from his unique perspective.

Thanks David.

I have gained a lot from the forum over the last few years (including respite from my abusive wife, information about Thailand and new perspectives on many subjects).

This thread is partly my way of giving back to the forum, even if that means providing entertainment for those who laugh at / or feel good by criticizing my stupidity.

The responses I have received to this thread / personal message have been very helpful, as has the process of writing down and communicating my thoughts.

[brit1984]

Thanks - that is really helpful advice. Your plan is a refined version of the basic plan I had in my mind, although I will wait until she needs my signature to remarry and trade for custody (rather than offering her more cash).

I will certainly try to cover all the bases back home in case either of us moves to a developed country (I suspect she has done so already actually, although I can't imagine she has a long-term visa) or in case Thailand becomes developed!

I'm on the same wavelength as you with regards to lacking interest in back-office/admin/treasury/etc and I'm know trying to remodel/grow my business in a way that minimizes the need for me to trust the people in these functions.

The reason I am feeling positive is that as well as all the business/money stuff, my wife also made by life living hell through verbal / emotional abuse and by cutting me off from my very loving family back home, with whom I can now reconnect.

Thanks, and of course it's your life, but from my experience:

Don't be proud about giving her money to get what you want, keep your focus on what's really important and try to keep your ego out of it.

IMO there's no way she'll give you what you want without any money at all unless you really play the hardest of hard ball plays like threatening her with arrest and jail time.

Don't forget she is the mother of your children and once you are sure you've protected yourself and them from her latent legal power to control your lives, it is in their interest (most important of all is the welfare of the kids) that you leave things open so they can have as good a relationship as possible with their natural birth mother, ideally spending time with her regularly.

I personally suspect that NOW is the time to move as aggressively as possible. Down the road she may well get more resources, advice confidence and self-justification to make things much more difficult and expensive for you.

Try to execute a complete and clean buyout ASAP.

Don't discount the dirty tricks that are so easy to do here, more so for the locals than we foreigners. And if she's a true sociopath she won't refrain from violence either.

I am not a very proud person and will indeed take a pragmatic approach to this as you suggest.

Whether my wife should have access to the kids (and if so how much) is something I need to think about more and discuss with a couple of members of my close family who are psychology professionals. From what they have explained thus far it seems the severity and nature of her NPD is such that her presence in their lives could be very destructive (and she may not even have any interest in having contact with them) but I have an open mind about this.

[robblok]

really out of curiosity, i notice that you did have more than 3000 messages on tv, so here my question: Are you one of those members

who spent their times claiming how much their gf/wife is different, that she come from a good family, she is so honest, you can trust her with you life, she will never harm you, she is the best thing that did happen in your life, and she love you maak????!

(Well inspite of warning, the cultural gap, language barriere, difference of wealth, her family, etc etc)

Because if you are one of them, who spent his times to spread myths and <deleted> on tv, well in fact you might have fooled some other members, but the biggest victims is...you!

Now its time for some weeks holidays, and after to start to build back yourself, and dont run again in the same problems as it seems that some never learn.......

I am tempted to side your opinion, as the OP , with over 3200 posts on ThaiVisaForum, has obviously spend too much time behind the keyboard and left business to his Wife.

When you make the goat a gardener, don't cry over trampled,crushed and devoured flowers !!

I would be tempted for you to think outside your comment above.

Many guys, myself included, have lot's of posts here, but don't live on the forum.

We have our computer open for business and are occasionally tempted to read and post.

I know the OP well from this Forum over the years, and he is one of the good guys ... a 'Cricket Tragic', but that's another story.

Actually I applaud to the OP for coming forward with his story and shared it warts and all with no apologies or excuses for his Business mistakes he made. It's not another rehashed 'Thai Girl did me wrong' tale of woe.

This Forum is a better place for members like brit1984.

His OP is a lesson, or a reminder to us all of the perils of doing business in the Kingdom from his unique perspective.

Same here.. many of us work behind a computer many posts does not mean a thing. Just an other idiotic assumption of those who envy others.

[robblok]

@brit.. is what your wife has cure-able / treatable.. and is it forgive able.. you should ask you those things. Personally I would have a real hard time forgiving even if its caused by a (mental) illness. But keeping kids from their mother however bad she is is never a real good idea. Unless there is a high risk of self harm and harming the children.

[Tolley]

Sorry, for clarity on a few points...

Debts are mostly personal loans from mutual friends or people who I respect, hence why I will repay.

Our accountants were not responsible for handling cash / bank accounts, so it's not their fault. I trusted / allowed my wife to perform the treasury function, which was one of many stupid mistakes I made.

As my wife has not been paying rents, the landlords hold all the power and will support us to form new legal entities without my wife involved.

She has indeed defrauded the business, although sueing her would be pointless as we are quite sure she has already gambled away every baht but it remains an option for later.

My kids were living with us until this kicked off but they are better off with the in-laws until I get things under control, not least because the 20,000/month for the nanny is a luxury I cannot afford/justify right now.

After what has happened, I don't fully trust anyone (despite the in-laws appearing to be on my side) and am taking steps to protect my kids and secure custody of them, although my wife has never really bonded with them (I know that may be hard to imagine for anyone who has not met such a person).

Having Accountants that didn't warn you of large cash transactions,was no point in having them in the first place,and secondly,did you not look over,your Bank Statements? at least once a month?

I never looked at bank statements once in 4 years! I know that is stupid.

I cant believe that you never checked any bank statements !

I take an active interest in all my company's financial transactions and often question my accountant.

What made you trust your wife to deal with financial matters?

Did she have any business of accounting credentials?

Sorry for your situation and hopefully you will get over it and come out of it much stronger.

And thanks for having the guts to post your story as a warning to others.

Good luck.

[Lancelot]

Sorry for your loss; sounds like you are relatively young and you can recover from this. Keep moving forward.

Ignore the criticism from the small minds here. Hind sight is always 20/20 and who among us has never made a mistake or misjudged a person?

Again, move forward and put it behind you

[theoldgit]

Further flame removed, if you've not got anything sensible to add please don't bother posting.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Suradit69]

My wife has severe NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) or to put it another way she is evil. She (as with others with NPD) is very egotistical/selfish, views the world as revolving around herself, and does not care how her pursuit of her wants/needs (or what she thinks she wants/needs) affects other people.

I am now an official member of the stupid-farang-sucker club,

Sounds like you were made for each other.

[Showbags]

20k for a Nanny...are you serious ?

With this NPD thingy...what was the most obvious symptom she had....I presume the gambling is a result of it, rather than the cause of it...was she generally a bitch all the time, some of the time, little bit and to who ? everyone, just you, kids, friends etc..

[recycler]

So whats the deal with the kids now then ?

They could become a bitter element in future dealings.

They are with in-laws who are also victims of this, but I have unlimited access.

I expect to swap custody for divorce once my wife inevitably finds a new guy.

As you mention in your post that there are also loan sharks involved you better be very careful about your kids!

I would even suggest you take them out of Thailand ASAP! Do they have UK passports?

As there are probably no real assets to grab, the loan sharks will do anything to improve their negotiation position with you.

Wish you all the wisdom to handle this situation and be very careful you're in a dangerous spot.

I can feel with you, but luckily got rid of my BDP Thai ex before she could damage my life seriously. For same reason these personality disorders are more common in Thailand than I've seen back home. I assume your life together wasn't much fun for a while already, but with kids and a common business together it's difficult to cut the ties.

[recycler]

@brit.. is what your wife has cure-able / treatable.. and is it forgive able.. you should ask you those things. Personally I would have a real hard time forgiving even if its caused by a (mental) illness. But keeping kids from their mother however bad she is is never a real good idea. Unless there is a high risk of self harm and harming the children.

I had a GF with BPD, a personality disorder of the same group including also anxiety etc. and did some research on it and treatment is extremely difficult.

Patients will always deny their condition and refuse treatment, if they agree on treatment it is to fool the medics as soon as they can and get out again. A temporary solution can be medication, but never on the long term.

Advice from most people is as soon as you discover this is RUN! Problem is that most people with personality disorders are very well trained in hiding their condition at first, so it all seems heaven on earth the first period until some unexpected emotional luggage is unpacked and their behavior towards you and others gradually changes. Most people with partners like this stay in denial for a long time, it often takes somebody else with experience to open your eyes.

[HooHaa]

reading up on NPD i am uncertain as to why it is so significant here.

She screwed you plain and simple.

[Showbags]

Sorry, for clarity on a few points...

Debts are mostly personal loans from mutual friends or people who I respect, hence why I will repay.

Our accountants were not responsible for handling cash / bank accounts, so it's not their fault. I trusted / allowed my wife to perform the treasury function, which was one of many stupid mistakes I made.

As my wife has not been paying rents, the landlords hold all the power and will support us to form new legal entities without my wife involved.

She has indeed defrauded the business, although sueing her would be pointless as we are quite sure she has already gambled away every baht but it remains an option for later.

My kids were living with us until this kicked off but they are better off with the in-laws until I get things under control, not least because the 20,000/month for the nanny is a luxury I cannot afford/justify right now.

After what has happened, I don't fully trust anyone (despite the in-laws appearing to be on my side) and am taking steps to protect my kids and secure custody of them, although my wife has never really bonded with them (I know that may be hard to imagine for anyone who has not met such a person).

Having Accountants that didn't warn you of large cash transactions,was no point in having them in the first place,and secondly,did you not look over,your Bank Statements? at least once a month?

I cannot fathom one of the main expenses of a business going unnoticed as not paid....the rent...crikey

I am curious what kind of business you were running. Can you do Bankruptcy 7,11, 13, or whatever in Thailand? Have the banks sell some assets, put her on the hook for whatever she signed, etc... and then move on in some sort of restructuring agreement? Loan sharks are something that seem need to be paid immediately. I have a feeling they are not covered in bankruptcy court. anyhow, i would also try to sell equity, create incentives for your employees, and, above all else, move forward. easier said than done.

We have an informal restructuring agreement / plan in place already. We could do bankruptcy but not much point as most debts are personal loans and most of our trade creditors have been reasonable about this. Anyway, we don't really need the entity that was controlled/owned by wife and can operate in the same with a new entity without her.

Basically landlords can control and keep all profit until they are made good then we will distribute all profits between lenders/other creditors equally thereafter, with exceptions made for any lender requiring (with good reason) faster repayment, and then we will negotiate a new shareholding structure once debts have been repaid or repaid down to reasonable levels, including any lenders who prefer to swap for equity.

Actually I have no intention of paying loan sharks ahead of other genuine lenders, or to pay them their outrageous (and un-contracted) interest rates. They have no rights to anything in the business (as all lease contracts in my wife's name have been cancelled by landlords) and they have already contacted my in-laws and seem willing to accept a much lower amount to settle (seems they have already made double/triple their money back from my wife, and she gave them a car as security anyway).

I have some professional restructuring experience as I used to work as a debt investor for a hedge fund in London, which I left to have (I thought) a less stressful life doing a family business together with my wife. One of the painful (or funny) ironies in all this (given the effect my wife's gambling habit has had on me) is that while still working I helped save/restructure a big casino/gaming company!

Do not repay loan sharks at all...they should be her responsibility alone....usually they are word of mouth deals, regardless you signed nothing, knew nothing of them and leave it that way....just say mai loo when they pop around

[cosmont]

really out of curiosity, i notice that you did have more than 3000 messages on tv, so here my question: Are you one of those members

who spent their times claiming how much their gf/wife is different, that she come from a good family, she is so honest, you can trust her with you life, she will never harm you, she is the best thing that did happen in your life, and she love you maak????!

(Well inspite of warning, the cultural gap, language barriere, difference of wealth, her family, etc etc)

Because if you are one of them, who spent his times to spread myths and <deleted> on tv, well in fact you might have fooled some other members, but the biggest victims is...you!

Now its time for some weeks holidays, and after to start to build back yourself, and dont run again in the same problems as it seems that some never learn.......

That is a very interesting post.

I'm one of the guys who didn't discover Thaivisa (or really know anything about Thailand) until AFTER I married my wife.

Now I would actually say my wife is very DIFFERENT because most Thai people are not evil monsters with NPD.

I have also met a similar Thai devil. Within a few years, it end in a divorce when I discovered her same bad side (NPD).

After the divorce who cost me lot of money to compensate her, she used the kid to blackmail and get more and more money and Thai justice doesn't care about it, I wasted 3 years in court, she is the mother and Thai, she can't even be blame !

Now she give me a break as she found another poor folk to treat in the same way. It will take some years to him to discover what monster he married... love make people blind...

Seems lot farangs don't learn about other farang stories. Luckily, I was aware and never involved her in my business and got prenuptial aggreement, so I saved my AS/SET even she tried to get half.

I wish you good luck for the future, you did not mention if she ran away with the kids or not... more than the money and wife Relationship, it might be the next painful point...

Edited January 27, 2014 by cosmont

[Johnnie99]

I still, after many years here, do not understand why people switch off their common sense when they clamber out of the aircraft.

I have often said to tourists here, albeit as somewhat gratuitous advice "Remember - don't stop thinking just because you are on holiday".

Perhaps this should be said here too - although the events of which we read are unfortunate, a little less trust of such as profoundly different culture might prevent future incidents.

[oogster8]

Sorry for your loss. You said you built the business not your wife. Who did the books?

accountants

Did you ask for a refund ?

maybe they were thai accountants......................lol. cannot refund!

bad thai girl- no biggie- happens all the time.

i want to hear about the big international business. Is the business still sound?

Edited January 27, 2014 by oogster8

[orpheus454]

One of the painful (or funny) ironies in all this (given the effect my wife's gambling habit has had on me) is that while still working I helped save/restructure a big casino/gaming company!

Jaw dropping irony. Well spotted.

You have an excellent perspective on things. You'll be fine.

[brit1984]

really out of curiosity, i notice that you did have more than 3000 messages on tv, so here my question: Are you one of those members

who spent their times claiming how much their gf/wife is different, that she come from a good family, she is so honest, you can trust her with you life, she will never harm you, she is the best thing that did happen in your life, and she love you maak????!

(Well inspite of warning, the cultural gap, language barriere, difference of wealth, her family, etc etc)

Because if you are one of them, who spent his times to spread myths and <deleted> on tv, well in fact you might have fooled some other members, but the biggest victims is...you!

Now its time for some weeks holidays, and after to start to build back yourself, and dont run again in the same problems as it seems that some never learn.......

That is a very interesting post.

I'm one of the guys who didn't discover Thaivisa (or really know anything about Thailand) until AFTER I married my wife.

Now I would actually say my wife is very DIFFERENT because most Thai people are not evil monsters with NPD.

I have also met a similar Thai devil. Within a few years, it end in a divorce when I discovered her same bad side.

After the divorce who cost me lot of money to compensate her, she used the kid to blackmail and get more and more money and Thai justice doesn't care about it, I wasted 3 years in court, she is the mother and Thai, she can't even be blame !

Now she give me a break as she found another poor folk to treat in the same way. It will take some years to him to discover what monster he married... love make people blind...

Seems lot farangs don't learn about other farang stories. Luckily, I was aware and never involved her in my business and got prenuptial aggreement, so I saved my AS/SET even she tried to get half.

I wish you good luck for the future, you did not mention if she ran away with the kids or not... more than the money and wife Relationship, it might be the next painful point...

Luckily mine is not really interested in the kids, other than her dream (which in her mind is reality) that they will become celebrities and share their fame and fortune with her.

With regards to her trying to taking money from me, the situation now (partly through design) is such that I will have no significant money until lenders/creditors have been made good (which will be a couple of years at least) and my wife will soon realize the only way for her to continue the lifestyle she feels accustomed to is to remarry (at which point I can trade divorce for custody of the kids) so by the time I have income/wealth again, she will have most likely forgotten I have existed (or been replaced in her mind by her dreamed up evil ex-husband who was too slow to make her as rich as she deserves).

[antimedia]

"My wife has severe NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) or to put it another way she is evil. She (as with others with NPD) is very egotistical/selfish, views the world as revolving around herself, and does not care how her pursuit of her wants/needs (or what she thinks she wants/needs) affects other people". - Thai women have a personality order, get out of here. I thought all asian women were born like that. Well thats the impression I have got after 4 marriages and 4 defacto relationships (5 Thais, 2 Indos and 1 Filipina.) People have suggested that I could be the problem but hard to believe after all I am a farang. Currently in another tumultuous relationship with a Thai for 4 years, nothing changed to alter my perception of these crazy bitches.

[In Search of Space]

A variation on the same theme, but it goes to show that time means nothing to some people, I would also appreciate some advice.

I will have been married for 26 years in April, known her for 29 years, she has lived in UK for 25 of those years and holds both Thai and UK passports. In 1990, I offered to bring her daughter to the UK (6 years old), at that time she then admitted to two more sons, so I said OK, and in 1990 all three went to UK and are now doing reasonably well, with four grandchildren. We also have a daughter of our own (23 years old) and in 2009 she admitted to another son that I never knew about !!

In 2008 I came into a bit of money and at the wife's begging I (stupidly) bought some land near Silverlake south of Pattaya. To give the short version, she sold the land 3 months ago at a very, very good profit but did not tell me until last week, the money (between 15 - 20 million baht - she wont say how much) is in a SCB savings account in her name and she thinks that she will now become a property speculator and no doubt she will lose it all in a year or two. She will buy land recommended by her friends who will all get a comission.

I have told her that unless she puts the money in to a joint account with two signatures required to withdraw money, I want a divorce. I can prove that the original land purchase money came from our joint UK account, in any case at that time we had been married 20 years. I don't believe that she wants to divorce so I might be able to push her down this road.

But I think that I have to move whilst the money is tied up in a six month interest account, either getting divorced in Thailand or UK. If we were to divorce in Thailand (we were originally married in Thailand), would the money be viewed as joint assets acquired during the marriage or would it be viewed as her's as it relates to a land sale ?

I am a card-carrying member of the dumb-ferang club !

[lostinsurin]

Strange that you can, as the business owner and manager, let debts become so large, without knowing about it.

Anyway, by the sounds of it you have a good business, so work around it and trade out if you can...think how good the future will be without her and her hands in the till........head down, arse up and make it happen.....for the kids if nothing else.

Thanks for the positive advice/outlook...

I was of course very stupid and there are about 20 other people who were stupid - but my wife was very clever to control information flow between people so although we all knew something, none of us knew the full story.

The business was growing so fast that it made sense (on paper) we had debt, and I knew about a lot of it, but I didn't know interest or repayments had not been made and that follow on loans had been made (so the total debt is more than double what we knew about and with many people expecting repayment much sooner than we can pay).

Luckily most lenders have been very understanding and the senior managers have agreed to stick around and basically work for free until we repay suppliers/landlords/lenders, etc. There will be a tough couple of years but I'm confident and quite excited about the future thereafter with the leakage now blocked...

This story doesn't sound right,

You seem to come out of it being some poor old victim. Fishy!!!

excited about the future? sure sounds like you fell on your feet IMO

[kennypowers]

Very sorry to hear about this. I truly hope you get back on your feet soon and that your kids come through fine too. What's interesting is that usually we are hearing stories about ex-bar girls and the poor, uneducated women gold digging and ripping off their sugar daddies. But this case is quite different. Your wife must have been pretty business savvy to have handled the finances and operation of the company, and indeed to hide what she did for so long, juggling the debt and expectations of those she was borrowing from and stalling for money. I'm interested to know whether she is well educated / from a middle-class family?

[brit1984]

I still, after many years here, do not understand why people switch off their common sense when they clamber out of the aircraft.

I have often said to tourists here, albeit as somewhat gratuitous advice "Remember - don't stop thinking just because you are on holiday".

Perhaps this should be said here too - although the events of which we read are unfortunate, a little less trust of such as profoundly different culture might prevent future incidents.

That's a good point and worth making, although I met and married my wife in London, and we only moved to Thailand later.

Maybe a better way to put it would be to always follow a path borne out of common sense and logical thinking, even when a pretty girl (or hunky guy for any female/gay readers) entices you down a different path.

[BlackJack]

Thai888 in Jomtien insists that all paperwork be in English so that these issues are minimised - you need contracts, proper management, legal advise, accounts etc.

Everyone in business in Thailand needs to keep an eye on things - even if you have been married for 20 years you need to spend a few hours a week checking things - dont listen to the mai pen rai as it will not be alright

It sounds like you wife has a gambling problem and so the loan sharks.

[brit1984]

Very sorry to hear about this. I truly hope you get back on your feet soon and that your kids come through fine too. What's interesting is that usually we are hearing stories about ex-bar girls and the poor, uneducated women gold digging and ripping off their sugar daddies. But this case is quite different. Your wife must have been pretty business savvy to have handled the finances and operation of the company, and indeed to hide what she did for so long, juggling the debt and expectations of those she was borrowing from and stalling for money. I'm interested to know whether she is well educated / from a middle-class family?

I would describe her as an Isarn "princess"... from maybe the wealthiest family in her small town in the middle of nowhere but still relatively poor compared to a lot of westerners (and very much lacking in class/culture/manners/etc).

She was spoilt rotten as a kid and studied at ABAC in Bangkok, where she mixed with and lots of other spoilt kids (and seemingly developed jealousy about some of them being from much wealthier/higher status familes from Bangkok).

She is very clever but also I was very stupid, as were many other people who were caught up in this.