But Just How Poor Is Thailand?

[ColPyat]

One of my employee : good income (25 - 30 000 THB + 10 000 for his wife). 35 years old.

He took a loan for 1 million THB to buy land+building house.

On 30 years !

Minimum Lending Rate after 3 years (3 first years have fixed rates : 4.5 then 6 then 6.5). The MLR is now 7 % or 7.25.

So, in a way, he is not poor. But in another way, he is a slave.

I don't see this much different from most western countries in which people buy their own houses on financing.

[thaihome]

[it is difficult to say.

Thailand has with China the biggest gap between the poor and the rich in Asia. You have approximately 10% who are rich, and own about 90% of the land and assets. You have about 20% - 30% middle class with access to proper financing and credit, who appear richer as they are in reality.

The rest are poor. I don't know the exact percentage, but there are large sectors of those poor who own 5 rai or less land, and have to make do with a yearly income of ten to twenty thousand baht per family. Many of those do during long periods of the year mainly eat what they can hunt and gather in the fields and forests as employment for them is mainly seasonal, during planting and harvest season.

The poor are nowadys in huge debt thanks to Thaksin's easy loan schemes (and the traditional neglectance of the previous governments as well). Especially harmful will turn out the change in the sor por kor 401 legislation (land that is originally reserved for the poor), where different than before that land title can now be given as security to loans. Due to the lack of education and money management skills there is a very high possibility that those sectors will within the next few years slip into even more trouble.

There is a steady migration to the few industrial centres from the vast underdeveloped areas upcountry, which does cause enormous stress to the village societies, and contributes to the rising violence in these industrial centres.

The poverty is also mainly regional. I would say that nowadays the poorest areas are in the north, closely followed by Isaarn (some might disagree there). The south is generally better off, due to more rain and a generally better educational level.

A very good analysis, which you will note has been ignored while the sick buffalo and loan shark posts continue. I do disagree that Thailand and China are comparable in the disparity between the rich and the poor. I would suggest that China is probably more on the level of Cambodia, Vietnam, or Myanmar in that regard. In fact, the so called China Miracle is actually only enjoyed by the 10% of the population, most of whom live along the east coast, and even probably 90% of those people endure a very hard life, just above the poverty line.

Also, Southern Thailand is generally acknowledged to be the most poverty stricken areas of country, one of the main factors in the current insurrection.

TH

[Heng]

All the country works and thinks like that, that's the main issue.

All the people who live beyond their means think like that. All the people who do not, well they live quite comfortably and are content with their wealth or lack there of.

And yes, interest is well on its way up. 10% MLR is not far off.

Edited May 23, 2006 by Heng

[ColPyat]

A very good analysis, which you will note has been ignored while the sick buffalo and loan shark posts continue. I do disagree that Thailand and China are comparable in the disparity between the rich and the poor. I would suggest that China is probably more on the level of Cambodia, Vietnam, or Myanmar in that regard. In fact, the so called China Miracle is actually only enjoyed by the 10% of the population, most of whom live along the east coast, and even probably 90% of those people endure a very hard life, just above the poverty line.

Also, Southern Thailand is generally acknowledged to be the most poverty stricken areas of country, one of the main factors in the current insurrection.

TH

Yes, you may be right about the three Changwats, but i can't say much about them as i have never been there. The rest of the southern provinces though are better off then the rest of the country.

I do share you sentiments about China, don't forget though the insane wealth of Shanghai and the SEC's on the eastern and southern cost, which does make the gap between the rich there, and the poor in the rest of the country, huge.

I believe if that the gap between rich and poor is socially and politically extremely explosive if the new found wealth does not trickle down into development for the poor. I believe from what i have seen recently in India that there is more hope for the future than in Thailand and China, even though it may appear poorer.

[Heng]

double double post.

Edited May 23, 2006 by Heng

[Heng]

double post

Edited May 23, 2006 by Heng

[Heng]

Anything over 3% interest a month is illegal if you happen to come across it. 1-3% is the norm, with goods or land (the Land Department won't accept any contracts drawn over 3% per month interest) as collateral.

As for "easy credit" from banks, it's there for some cases, but it's not as easy as some people seem to think. If it were that easy, there wouldn't be such a huge market for non-bank / non-finance company financing at 12-36% per year interest.

[cobra]

Within the urban illusion of a sophisticated metropolis, Bkk would hardly be considered 3rd world,

and as in many other countries, the division of wealth is anything but equitable,

Still, on a basic level very few go hungry, as opposed to the abject poverty of India, the African sub-continent, etc, where starvation is a fact of life, and the rich could care less about the poor.

[samran]

However on the poverty scale Thailand is not too bad.

Go over to India and see the people who live and beg on the streets.

It is quite distressing.

You do not see that level of poverty in LOS.

Agree. And hopefully.

On the "credit" problem now : it is pandemic.

One of my employee : good income (25 - 30 000 THB + 10 000 for his wife). 35 years old.

He took a loan for 1 million THB to buy land+building house.

On 30 years !

Minimum Lending Rate after 3 years (3 first years have fixed rates : 4.5 then 6 then 6.5). The MLR is now 7 % or 7.25.

So, in a way, he is not poor. But in another way, he is a slave.

If interest rates shot up (and they might), he will pay, pay, pay, all his life.

One accident (30 years...), and the house will be seized.

All the country works and thinks like that, that's the main issue.

Australians are no different...mortgaged to the hilt as well. Incomes may be more, but so are house prices!

[dairy queen]

Thailand is not a poor country...Far from it in fact...The problem is that very few people have access to the $$$...From what i've been told, about 20 families pretty much own the country...

[jdinasia]

not that you'd trust it .... but take a look at the CIA world factbook .... the pattern of wealth dispersal is almost identical to the USA ... just starts out on a MUCH lower level

[astral]

One of my employee : good income (25 - 30 000 THB + 10 000 for his wife). 35 years old.

He took a loan for 1 million THB to buy land+building house.

On 30 years !

Minimum Lending Rate after 3 years (3 first years have fixed rates : 4.5 then 6 then 6.5). The MLR is now 7 % or 7.25.

So, in a way, he is not poor. But in another way, he is a slave.

If interest rates shot up (and they might), he will pay, pay, pay, all his life.

Not so different to the West.

Not sure what is acceptable these days, but when I started out I borrowed 3x my salary and really struggled for the first couple of years.

This sounds about the same.

Now 30 years later I am clear of all debt!!

Edited May 24, 2006 by astral

[Galong]

Credit I understand,but in order to obtain credit they must have good ratings from a bank,therefore no credit risk,therefore a good income,surely?

Credit cards are available to those that make US$390 a month.... (15,000 baht)

Yep, my wife makes 20K/month and got two credit cards. I make several times that and get refused every time I apply. I guess they would rather get screwed by a Thai than risk trusting a spooky farang....

[Galong]

You're all familiar with TRT. But the reality is TYT. Thai Y*t Thai.

Just like most countries, there are loads of rich Thais who will do everything within their power to screw over other Thais. If it gets too serious though, they can always blame whitey.... you know, like when the baht crashed... it was the IMF who got the bad press. All of the bad loans to Thais had nothing to do with it... no way man. There's no such thing as personal responsibility in this country.

My poorer Thai friends are all nice people. My wealthier Thai friends are possessed by $$. Guess who I like to hang out with?

[siam-i-am]

Thailand is not a poor country...Far from it in fact...The problem is that very few people have access to the $$$...From what i've been told, about 20 families pretty much own the country...

20 families do not account for all the luxury cars and big homes bought nor does buying on credit. This is the land of graft, drugs, and copyright infringment. All cash and all has to be spent, I used to go with a girl that worked in a gold shop a million bhat in

purchases for days take was not that rare.

Edited May 24, 2006 by siam-i-am

[longway]

A very good analysis, which you will note has been ignored while the sick buffalo and loan shark posts continue. I do disagree that Thailand and China are comparable in the disparity between the rich and the poor. I would suggest that China is probably more on the level of Cambodia, Vietnam, or Myanmar in that regard. In fact, the so called China Miracle is actually only enjoyed by the 10% of the population, most of whom live along the east coast, and even probably 90% of those people endure a very hard life, just above the poverty line.

Also, Southern Thailand is generally acknowledged to be the most poverty stricken areas of country, one of the main factors in the current insurrection.

TH

Yes, you may be right about the three Changwats, but i can't say much about them as i have never been there. The rest of the southern provinces though are better off then the rest of the country.

I do share you sentiments about China, don't forget though the insane wealth of Shanghai and the SEC's on the eastern and southern cost, which does make the gap between the rich there, and the poor in the rest of the country, huge.

I believe if that the gap between rich and poor is socially and politically extremely explosive if the new found wealth does not trickle down into development for the poor. I believe from what i have seen recently in India that there is more hope for the future than in Thailand and China, even though it may appear poorer.

Why do you think India has more hope than China or thailand? Whats so different about India? Lack of decent infrastructure, a still growing population, massively corrupt institutions, incredible imbalances in society, indifference to some important issues. can describe all 3 to a varying extent. I saw the BBC today and an Indian activist stated that 65% of Mumbai's population dont have access to clean drinking water. thats out of an estimate of 7 million. The scale of India's issues dwarf Thailands. BTW India is much poorer than either Thailand or China.

All 3 far to go, each has some common features and its own unique issues. Am not saying none of them will succeed. China has gone a lot further down the road of development than India so far as far as I can tell.

[ColPyat]

Why do you think India has more hope than China or thailand? Whats so different about India? Lack of decent infrastructure, a still growing population, massively corrupt institutions, incredible imbalances in society, indifference to some important issues. can describe all 3 to a varying extent. I saw the BBC today and an Indian activist stated that 65% of Mumbai's population dont have access to clean drinking water. thats out of an estimate of 7 million. The scale of India's issues dwarf Thailands. BTW India is much poorer than either Thailand or China.

All 3 far to go, each has some common features and its own unique issues. Am not saying none of them will succeed. China has gone a lot further down the road of development than India so far as far as I can tell.

India has a far cleaner government, led by a highly educated, intelligent and integer man (unlike Thailand ). India has a far better infrastructure, more railwaylines, indigenous industries (especially good is manufacturing), better universities (some world niveaux, with visiting top lecturers from all over the globe). Their development plan is more intelligent, built to attract long term foreign investors. And, India has a proper constitution, is a relatively stable democracy unlike China and Thailand.

Yes, India has still enormous problems, but the present boom in India is more than impressive, especially because it is controlled better than in China.

Corruption in India is massive, though it clearly is declining compared to before. This cannot be said about Thailand and China.

China is cowboy land, uncontrolled boom, the biggest bubble economy on earth. And it's heading for desaster.

Many long term investors have started to move from China to India in the last two or three years ad India gives them better legal protection as well. And, most important - India has a far better educated workforce than both Thailand and China.

In India it depends all on the next few years, if the government manages that the boom also trickles down to the poor. Presently i believe that they manage better than both Thailand and China in this respect.

[longway]

Why do you think India has more hope than China or thailand? Whats so different about India? Lack of decent infrastructure, a still growing population, massively corrupt institutions, incredible imbalances in society, indifference to some important issues. can describe all 3 to a varying extent. I saw the BBC today and an Indian activist stated that 65% of Mumbai's population dont have access to clean drinking water. thats out of an estimate of 7 million. The scale of India's issues dwarf Thailands. BTW India is much poorer than either Thailand or China.

All 3 far to go, each has some common features and its own unique issues. Am not saying none of them will succeed. China has gone a lot further down the road of development than India so far as far as I can tell.

India has a far cleaner government, led by a highly educated, intelligent and integer man (unlike Thailand ). India has a far better infrastructure, more railwaylines, indigenous industries (especially good is manufacturing), better universities (some world niveaux, with visiting top lecturers from all over the globe). Their development plan is more intelligent, built to attract long term foreign investors. And, India has a proper constitution, is a relatively stable democracy unlike China and Thailand.

Yes, India has still enormous problems, but the present boom in India is more than impressive, especially because it is controlled better than in China.

Corruption in India is massive, though it clearly is declining compared to before. This cannot be said about Thailand and China.

China is cowboy land, uncontrolled boom, the biggest bubble economy on earth. And it's heading for desaster.

Many long term investors have started to move from China to India in the last two or three years ad India gives them better legal protection as well. And, most important - India has a far better educated workforce than both Thailand and China.

In India it depends all on the next few years, if the government manages that the boom also trickles down to the poor. Presently i believe that they manage better than both Thailand and China in this respect.

as much as id lime to agree with you, you seem to pull 'facts' out of thin air. Direct inward investment into India $5 billion, China $50 billion. Manufacturing is in fact the base for China's growth, 80% of the worlds consumer electronics are made in China, as I understand it.

Indias infrastructure better? How can you possibly make a claim like that? Come off it. Declining corruption perhaps but it ranks about 80 in the world thailand ranks about 50.

In terms of planning, come on? China is a heavily controlled society, Chnia has been planning this 'bubble boom' since 1980. This boom is the direct result of policies they have been follwing for decades. India's boom in fact has just happened, its far from planned, but thats India,

I'm sorry but much of what you say is untrue. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages. never underestimate the chinese, or the thais in fact. all 3 have had bad histories and have managed to land on their feet so to speak. thailand managed to ally itself with japan and america at the same time in ww2. gave the finger to the uk to boot. and managed to give the french a bashing. the mind boggles on how they pulled that off.

Edited May 24, 2006 by longway

[ColPyat]

as much as id lime to agree with you, you seem to pull 'facts' out of thin air. Direct inward investment into India $5 billion, China $50 billion. Manufacturing is in fact the base for China's growth, 80% of the worlds consumer electronics are made in China, as I understand it.

Indias infrastructure better? How can you possibly make a claim like that? Come off it. Declining corruption perhaps but it ranks about 80 in the world thailand ranks about 50.

In terms of planning, come on? China is a heavily controlled society, Chnia has been planning this 'bubble boom' since 1980. This boom is the direct result of policies they have been follwing for decades. India's boom in fact has just happened, its far from planned, but thats India,

I'm sorry but much of what you say is untrue. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages. never underestimate the chinese, or the thais in fact. all 3 have had bad histories and have managed to land on their feet so to speak. thailand managed to ally itself with japan and america at the same time in ww2. gave the finger to the uk to boot. and managed to give the french a bashing. the mind boggles on how they pulled that off.

Sorry, but i belive you have never been in India, especially not recently.

The opening India's happened not "just now", but was orchestrated by the present Prime Minister Manmohar Sing while he was cabinet member under Rao in the early 90's. The following BJP government, bad as the were in the communal problems, followed Sings's economical opening.

China's opening was, and still is chaotic, the result is that the rich areas are mostly along the coastal lines, while the interior is dirt poor. In the eighties China's economy was destroeyed, and additionally the south forced Deng to open China far too rapidly. China is a heavily controlled society, but only in terms of intellectual freedom. In terms of business it is wild west.

India though has a far better plan, in which gradually all of India gets developed. It's slower, but far safer. And it has paid off so far.

Yes, all the electronics are made in China, and some iron as well. Only, most is cheap rubbish. India has far better capabilities for high precision manufacturing. My dad did business in India (high precision manufacturing) when China was still in the cultural revolution.

India is a far more stable economy, and a far more stable political system.

Never underestimate the Chinese? I am tired of platitudes like this. Please look at the facts. Fact is, that China has no transperancy, harldy any legal protection, and it has a huge bubble economy. India has transperancy, a strong legal system, freedom of speach, freedom of the media, uncomparably better universities.

Development is not just the highest numbers on paper.

Edited May 24, 2006 by ColPyat

[longway]

as much as id lime to agree with you, you seem to pull 'facts' out of thin air. Direct inward investment into India $5 billion, China $50 billion. Manufacturing is in fact the base for China's growth, 80% of the worlds consumer electronics are made in China, as I understand it.

Indias infrastructure better? How can you possibly make a claim like that? Come off it. Declining corruption perhaps but it ranks about 80 in the world thailand ranks about 50.

In terms of planning, come on? China is a heavily controlled society, Chnia has been planning this 'bubble boom' since 1980. This boom is the direct result of policies they have been follwing for decades. India's boom in fact has just happened, its far from planned, but thats India,

I'm sorry but much of what you say is untrue. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages. never underestimate the chinese, or the thais in fact. all 3 have had bad histories and have managed to land on their feet so to speak. thailand managed to ally itself with japan and america at the same time in ww2. gave the finger to the uk to boot. and managed to give the french a bashing. the mind boggles on how they pulled that off.

Sorry, but i belive you have never been in India, especially not recently.

The opening India's happened not "just now", but was orchestrated by the present Prime Minister Manmohar Sing while he was cabinet member under Rao in the early 90's. The following BJP government, bad as the were in the communal problems, followed Sings's economical opening.

China's opening was, and still is chaotic, the result is that the rich areas are mostly along the coastal lines, while the interior is dirt poor. In the eighties China's economy was destroeyed, and additionally the south forced Deng to open China far too rapidly. China is a heavily controlled society, but only in terms of intellectual freedom. In terms of business it is wild west.

India though has a far better plan, in which gradually all of India gets developed. It's slower, but far safer. And it has paid off so far.

Yes, all the electronics are made in China, and some iron as well. Only, most is cheap rubbish. India has far better capabilities for high precision manufacturing. My dad did business in India (high precision manufacturing) when China was still in the cultural revolution.

India is a far more stable economy, and a far more stable political system.

Never underestimate the Chinese? I am tired of platitudes like this. Please look at the facts. Fact is, that China has no transperancy, harldy any legal protection, and it has a huge bubble economy. India has transperancy, a strong legal system, freedom of speach, freedom of the media, uncomparably better universities.

Development is not just the highest numbers on paper.

You keep on changing the goal posts. You make broad generilisations that cant be supported. Some of what you say may be true but so much is not. You must be a salesman of some sort.

From Wikipaedia:

Since 1978 the People's Republic of China (PRC) government has been reforming its economy from a Soviet-style centrally planned economy to a more market-oriented economy but still within the political framework, provided by the Communist Party of China. This system has been called "Socialism with Chinese characteristics" and is one type of mixed economy.

.....The government also has focused on foreign trade as a major vehicle for economic growth. The result has been a tenfold increase in GDP since 1978.

A bubble of 28 years and counting. Naturally the coastal areas are rich, they are the ports through which China exports her goods. The hinterland is poor, you dont think rural India is dirt poor too???

India liberalised in the early 90s after an economic crisis. And has generally done well since then with a few hiccups. Its certainly not planned, there were a variety of reforms of varying success over the next 10 years. It was more of a hodge podge of good and bad. Am not putting the country down just trying to be objective. I am buying land in Goa later this year in fact. I was in India last christmas.

Its nice to hear someone talking the country up, but some of the statements you made like the infrastructure being far superior made wonder if you had ever been there myself, but was too polite to say so.

Speaking of platitudes 'Numbers dont mean development'

Rank Country GDP (PPP)

2 People's Republic of China 9,412,361 1

4 India 3,633,441

I could go on but i suspect your mind is made up for some reason, so i wont bother.

I dont know who will ultimately succeed, but i dont see any reason to make stuff up.

[dairy queen]

Thailand is not a poor country...Far from it in fact...The problem is that very few people have access to the $$$...From what i've been told, about 20 families pretty much own the country...

20 families do not account for all the luxury cars and big homes bought nor does buying on credit. This is the land of graft, drugs, and copyright infringment. All cash and all has to be spent, I used to go with a girl that worked in a gold shop a million bhat in

purchases for days take was not that rare.

A million baht a day is not even pocket fluff compared to what the big Thai owned corporations make...Admittedly smaller than back home, but still significant...

I'm talking about families like: Shinawatra (obviously), Pokphand Family, Sirivadhanabhakdi Family, Yoovidhya Family...I won't go on...You'll find that it's these guys that own the country, and most of the wealth...Credit is responsible for most of the luxury cars etc.

[ColPyat]

I could go on but i suspect your mind is made up for some reason, so i wont bother.

I dont know who will ultimately succeed, but i dont see any reason to make stuff up.

GDP is not the only factor to measure development status.

No, i am not a salesman of any sort. I have been in India twice this year, and more times than i can count in the last two decades. I have been many times in China as well.

As far as "Socialism with Chinese characteristics" goes - it is <deleted>. China has the rawest and roughest capitalism found on earth nowadays, paired with very little intellectual freedom, no transperency, very little legal protection. The '97 crises in south east Asia should have tought us that unhindered growth in the two digits without the necessary control mechanisms is a recepy for desaster. It appearantly has not.

India goes slower, but far more controlled, and it does have transparency, legal protection and freedom of speach and thought. And, i don't know how often i can repeat that - a far higher level of education under the workforce.

Development is not just numbers on paper, it also contains other factors. And sorry, i don't see the necessary ground work done in China for a stable future development.

[longway]

I could go on but i suspect your mind is made up for some reason, so i wont bother.

I dont know who will ultimately succeed, but i dont see any reason to make stuff up.

GDP is not the only factor to measure development status.

No, i am not a salesman of any sort. I have been in India twice this year, and more times than i can count in the last two decades. I have been many times in China as well.

As far as "Socialism with Chinese characteristics" goes - it is <deleted>. China has the rawest and roughest capitalism found on earth nowadays, paired with very little intellectual freedom, no transperency, very little legal protection. The '97 crises in south east Asia should have tought us that unhindered growth in the two digits without the necessary control mechanisms is a recepy for desaster. It appearantly has not.

India goes slower, but far more controlled, and it does have transparency, legal protection and freedom of speach and thought. And, i don't know how often i can repeat that - a far higher level of education under the workforce.

Development is not just numbers on paper, it also contains other factors. And sorry, i don't see the necessary ground work done in China for a stable future development.

Ok maybe youre right, but judging from your apprasial of India i can only take what you with a pinch of salt followed by a large tequilla. all i know of china is a visit by my dad last year and my uncle is married to a chinese lady so he has been there too. They have invited me to come with them the next time they go, so i will see for myself one day.

Socialism with Chinese characteristics is how it is described by the Chinese not by me.

Its just your talk of control, planning, infrastructure, strong legal system, transparency etc in India is not really true.

One of the big advantages in India is a skilled low cost english speaking workforce. I belive India continue to do well also.

I think Bill gates said after the Chinese the smartest people in the world are the South Indians

Edited May 25, 2006 by longway

[ColPyat]

Ok maybe youre right, but judging from your apprasial of India i can only take what you with a pinch of salt followed by a large tequilla. all i know of china is a visit by my dad last year and my uncle is married to a chinese lady so he has been there too. They have invited me to come with them the next time they go, so i will see for myself one day.

Socialism with Chinese characteristics is how it is described by the Chinese not by me.

Its just your talk of control, planning, infrastructure, strong legal system, transparency etc in India is not really true.

One of the big advantages in India is a skilled low cost english speaking workforce. I belive India continue to do well also.

I think Bill gates said after the Chinese the smartest people in the world are the South Indians

I don't say that India has not huge problems. There is still the ongoing civil war in Kashmir, the near anarchy and incredible poverty in Bihar, UP and parts of Andhra Pradesh, a rising maoist problem, etc.

Yes, there are also still problems with the legal system, planning and control, though the system generally does work along established due process, with checks and balances. This does not exist in China.

India, different than China, does not hide it's social tensions and problems. Impossible, as India has a free press (and in my opinion the best quality press presently in the world). I do see serious intensions in the Indian government to tackle those problems. Which i don't see in China. The regular farmers revolutions in China are swept under the carpet, without trying to solve the base problems. In China the financing of the boom is/always has been highly dubious.

"Socialism with Chinese characteristics" is a bit of a joke nowadays in China, sort of keeping up the face of egality in a strange mix of communist mind control and semi feudal capitalism. When you go to China one day, make sure that you not only visit places like Shanghai and Shenzhen, but also the incredibly poor and backward interior.

[Diablo Bob]

India has a far better educated workforce than both Thailand and China.

Ok what are you saying here?

Inasmuch as India has the lowest literacy rate when compared to China or Thailand, what are you trying to say........

Thailand - 96%

China - 85%

India - 65%

In my experience, most of the educated Indians leave India and go to the USA where they become Engineers, Doctors and 7-11 owners.

[ColPyat]

India has a far better educated workforce than both Thailand and China.

Ok what are you saying here?

Inasmuch as India has the lowest literacy rate when compared to China or Thailand, what are you trying to say........

Thailand - 96%

China - 85%

India - 65%

In my experience, most of the educated Indians leave India and go to the USA where they become Engineers, Doctors and 7-11 owners.

This number does not show much. You have federal states such as Bihar where the literacy rate is very low, but you have Kerala, where the literacy rate is closed to 100%.

Most educated Indians can hardly leave to the US as the US would suddenly double their population. What though is a problem since a long time is India's brain drain - US companies hire the top students directly from India's universities by offering stupid amounts of money they could never earn in India.

Fact is that India has now a solid middle class of 30%, that is up from 10% only less than two decades ago. Who can make it to school and university in India is generally very well educated as India's universities are very good.

Go and have a look yourself. Less than 20 years ago you could only see 2 different cars on India's roads - the old Ambassador and the Fiat. Now you have all makers, joint ventures with Suzuki and Mercedes Benz, plus the imported cars. Where 2 decades ago you could get no Coca Cola, now you have fancy fusion restaurants all over. Boom towns and their "High Tec" cities are jumping up all over India.

Look at Haydarabad, for example, 12 years ago it was a sleepy town in Andhra Pradesh's interior, and now on the way to compete with Bangalore (even further in the interior).

This does show a very careful planning by the Indian government, to strategically have cities all over the country taking part of the development, and not just some coastal towns.

[Diablo Bob]

This number does not show much. You have federal states such as Bihar where the literacy rate is very low, but you have Kerala, where the literacy rate is closed to 100%.

Most educated Indians can hardly leave to the US as the US would suddenly double their population. What though is a problem since a long time is India's brain drain - US companies hire the top students directly from India's universities by offering stupid amounts of money they could never earn in India.

Fact is that India has now a solid middle class of 30%, that is up from 10% only less than two decades ago. Who can make it to school and university in India is generally very well educated as India's universities are very good.

Go and have a look yourself. Less than 20 years ago you could only see 2 different cars on India's roads - the old Ambassador and the Fiat. Now you have all makers, joint ventures with Suzuki and Mercedes Benz, plus the imported cars. Where 2 decades ago you could get no Coca Cola, now you have fancy fusion restaurants all over. Boom towns and their "High Tec" cities are jumping up all over India.

Look at Haydarabad, for example, 12 years ago it was a sleepy town in Andhra Pradesh's interior, and now on the way to compete with Bangalore (even further in the interior).

This does show a very careful planning by the Indian government, to strategically have cities all over the country taking part of the development, and not just some coastal towns.

No, What the number say's is quiet clear, 35 of every 100 people in India is not literate!

But, to address the off-topic issue of development in India, in my journeys I have not found India to be that well developed. The countries capitol does not have full time power (24 hour). The countries capitol airport is litteraly a cesspool. It is filthy and disgusting.

So all this carefull slow planned development is happening elsewhere you say, and being funded by their current economic boom you say,

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Surprise! India's reign as the world's "Outsourcing King" may be slipping, even with its rock-bottom call center costs.

A new report from market research firm Gartner, Inc. warns that a labor crunch and rising wages could erode as much as 45 percent of India's market share by 2007.

Full story: http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/23/news/inter...rcing/index.htm

It seems that all is not well in India.

[ray23]

Boy all this is interesting but is Thialand poor?

Edited May 26, 2006 by ray23

[bannork]

Figures can be so misleading, everyone's heard of the impoverished north-east.

But in our village near Bandung, Udon Thani, pickups abound; the owner may have a shop making about 200 baht a day profit but he or she has got sons or daughters working abroad or in one of Thailand's industrial centres sending money back every month.

One of my nephews works in Rayong as a welder making 700 baht a day, he sends back 10,000 a month. His mother owns 30 rai( inherited) now full of eucalyptus trees and yet it's rare to see her spend more than 100 baht a day.

My brother-in-law catches fish, frogs, has his own chickens and ducks, he lives on 2000 baht a month or less, yet he owns a 6 wheel truck( bought by a loan from the agricultural bank) used for transport or for rice threshing, 2 motorbikes, a house and 15 rai.

The poorest people in the village go out in the morning with a cart, collect firewood, crabs, insects,morning glory and work in the rice fields of others for a share of the rice. Corrugated iron sheets for windows, they still have a TV and can get hospital care with free transport there from the village headman.

The average income earned by the villagers may look very small statistically but when monies received from offspring and their low cost of living are considered poverty is not a word I would use.

[ColPyat]

It seems that all is not well in India.

You should finish reading your own supplied text before posting it:

Chohan isn't worried about India losing it lead in IT outsourcing. "India dominates now and will continue to do so in the future because of the sheer scale of skills in the country at low costs. The only exception is China which has become very visible in this space within the last six months.

Apart from that, as the article also states, it is important that India does not sit on it's laurels and improves it service in the outsorcing business to higher quality products. Which is happening already, outsorcing is not just call centres, but also software development in many fields.

And outsorcing is not the only branch that Indian companies work.

How does that relate to Thailand's development status? If Thailand does not solve it's political and social problems very fast, including an educational reform, Thailand will lack behind India and Malaysia further than it already does.

Just a having a nice airport does not equate development when the other important factors are not put into place.