Govt To Ask 33 Banks For Rice Money Loans

[Desert Rat]

The Shin`s stole it.

Make them pay it back.

[englishoak]

Good business sense put it out to the competitive market...

I'm sure a lot will be whining but at least they are trying to get the farmers paid for what they have already sold on promise.

I see a lot of posters hating the idea of for some reason and have no idea why they would wish hardship on hard working farmers. They deserve to be paid in full asap imo.

The government is using off balance sheet financing for the rice scheme, to hide the losses.

They are not even willing to tell tax payers what the losses are exactly.

Supporting poor people is fine; but I recommend just sending them a check in the mail, properly accounted for (as it is tax payers' money). Subsidizing farmers by rigging the whole rice market and trying to hide the losses is just plain stupid.

To be honest i dont care about the scandal details ive known its a joke since day 1. Just cant understand why people would wish ruin on some farmers and sit and debate about whos to blame instead of paying or allowing to pay the bill and then sort it out in court later.

Kittirat should ask the DSI to track down the crooks who have plundered from the rice pledging scheme and force them to repay what they stole and pay a penalty equivalent to 10 times the theft or have their assets liquidated immediately to pay it. Then he would be able to pay back the farmers with interest on their loan shark loans.

upside down thinking again, the farmers should be paid first and then as you suggest clawed back all well and good... your suggestion would mean years of delay for the poor farmer.. which i dont think is very helpful do you ?

Edited January 27, 2014 by englishoak

[heina]

What you don't understand is that government bonds are guaranteed by the full faith and credit of the Thai government and attract a risk asset weighting accordingly. A loan that is guaranteed by a caretaker government that might not have the legal authority to guarantee it is a different type of risk asset under prudential banking standards.

In my personal opinion Thailand do not need any loan as they have 50 billion USD in a US treasury bonds. Just get rid of it before Federal Reserve scam default happens.

[northernjohn]

No bank in their right mind is going to loan this administration a dime, unless it can secure it against assets. These criminals will sell out the country to line their own pockets.

Absolute BOCs

If I'm owed 50,000 baht by the government, I have an asset worth 50,000 baht that has the same quality as any other government debt. So a farmer can simply borrow against his givernment debt, no different than borrowing against a government bond.

I really believe you would do that. Pay interest on a 50,000 baht loan and not care a bit about it.

Any one with financial sense would be saying ha you owe me 50,000 baht pay up so I don't have to pay interest.

[scorecard]

No bank in their right mind is going to loan this administration a dime, unless it can secure it against assets. These criminals will sell out the country to line their own pockets.

Absolute BOCs

If I'm owed 50,000 baht by the government, I have an asset worth 50,000 baht that has the same quality as any other government debt. So a farmer can simply borrow against his givernment debt, no different than borrowing against a government bond.

Nice fix, congratulations!

What you fail to add is that he farmers shouldn't need to borrow more, they should have been paid, months ago.

[Smokemachine]

And the answer is NO!!!!!!!!! Totally insane. And later you wonder why politicians are so disrespected in Thailand. They must know what they do is bad. Just return those greedy farmers their rice. This is acceptable. There must be a lesson in it for the farmers too!

They will not return the rice to the farmers. They die die need to find payment for them. PTP still need their votes.

[BlueNoseCodger]

The government is using off balance sheet financing for the rice scheme, to hide the losses.

They are not even willing to tell tax payers what the losses are exactly.

Supporting poor people is fine; but I recommend just sending them a check in the mail, properly accounted for (as it is tax payers' money). Subsidizing farmers by rigging the whole rice market and trying to hide the losses is just plain stupid.

What are the losses exactly?

Who knows?!

They are the future selling price of the rice, minus the price paid, plus the interest on any bond financing used to bridge the time needed to sell it.

So what is the future selling price of the rice exactly? Not known, nobody has a crystal ball.

And how much will the bond finance cost? A lot more now that Suthep scuppered the bond issue, and drove down the value of the Thai baht, but basically nobody knows for sure, because the bonds haven't yet been issued and can't be till the election is over.

And how long will it take to sell the backlog? Don't know, depends on the weather/world rice supplies & demands.

So it's not possible to calculate an exact loss because the loss isn't known and on the books until the capital item (rice) sells.

So Suthep pulls some exaggerated number from is butt and tells his supporters it, then tells them they're hiding that number from them! Throwing in a few mindless catch phrases to sell it as fact.

Should Yingluk have done this program without knowing all these things before hand? Of course she should! Because nobody ever knows these things beforehand. Shes in power, she tries stuff, some works, great!, Some fails, bad!, Some works after fixes, rice pledge likely falls into this category.

Sending poor people a check in the mail is not a good idea, use the money instead to build a rice reserve, its the staple diet of Thailand and floods are making supplies less reliable, so its a better use of the money.

Edited January 27, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[northernjohn]

No bank in their right mind is going to loan this administration a dime, unless it can secure it against assets. These criminals will sell out the country to line their own pockets.

Absolute BOCs

If I'm owed 50,000 baht by the government, I have an asset worth 50,000 baht that has the same quality as any other government debt. So a farmer can simply borrow against his givernment debt, no different than borrowing against a government bond.

But the figures don't add up, but the debts are mounting.

Tis nothing but plunder. Arrrrgghh.

And? The farmers are so far borrowing zero against this asset. They should be able to borrow against the full value of this asset.

As to whether Thailand is downing in debt, no it isn't:

UK Debt / GDP is 91%

Germany 82%

Thailand 45%

Thailand can well afford to pump money into the economy. It's going to have to just to recover from Suthep damage, but probably should spend on infrastructure anyway.

If it can afford to pump money into the economy why doesn't it pay for the rice it was supposed to pay for in October?

In case you didn't know it that was before Suthep and before Yingluck dissolved the house to fool people like you.

Under the present government the household debt has risen far beyond 45%.

Out of curiosity do you believe this nonsense you post or are you just trolling?

Edited January 27, 2014 by northernjohn

[aaron ysl]

The anti government protesters will soon run out of idea to destroy the government's image!

Sent from my GT-I9082 using Tapatalk

[BlueNoseCodger]

If it can afford to pump money into the economy why doesn't it pay for the rice it was supposed to pay for in October?

In case you didn't know it that was before Suthep and before Yingluck dissolved the house to fool people like you.

Out of curiosity do you believe this nonsense you post or are you just trolling?

Because the bond issue was scuppered, and it can't pay the farmers now during an election without the EC screaming 'vote buying'. Refer to comments higher up for timings and details.

"Out of curiosity do you believe this nonsense you post or are you just trolling?"

I find when people resort to insults it's a sign they lost.

[ggold]

The government has enough money. They just can't access it because the government is in "caretaker" mode due to the elections.

So, basically ..the farmers are not being paid thanks to Suthep.

That really is twisted. The government probably don't have the money, why have the rice farmers been waiting since October for their money?

[northernjohn]

The government is using off balance sheet financing for the rice scheme, to hide the losses.

They are not even willing to tell tax payers what the losses are exactly.

Supporting poor people is fine; but I recommend just sending them a check in the mail, properly accounted for (as it is tax payers' money). Subsidizing farmers by rigging the whole rice market and trying to hide the losses is just plain stupid.

What are the losses exactly?

Who knows?!

They are the future selling price of the rice, minus the price paid, plus the interest on any bond financing used to bridge the time needed to sell it.

So what is the future selling price of the rice exactly? Not known, nobody has a crystal ball.

And how much will the bond finance cost? A lot more now that Suthep scuppered the bond issue, and drove down the value of the Thai baht, but basically nobody knows for sure, because the bonds haven't yet been issued and can't be till the election is over.

And how long will it take to sell the backlog? Don't know, depends on the weather/world rice supplies & demands.

So it's not possible to calculate an exact loss because the loss isn't known and on the books until the capital item (rice) sells.

So Suthep pulls some exaggerated number from is butt and tells his supporters it, then tells them they're hiding that number from them! Throwing in a few mindless catch phrases to sell it as fact.

Should Yingluk have done this program without knowing all these things before hand? Of course she should! Because nobody ever knows these things beforehand. Shes in power, she tries stuff, some works, great!, Some fails, bad!, Some works after fixes, rice pledge likely falls into this category.

Sending poor people a check in the mail is not a good idea, use the money instead to build a rice reserve, its the staple diet of Thailand and floods are making supplies less reliable, so its a better use of the money.

Well it is after hand how much did she sell it to Iran and the Ivory coast for. How much was China going to pay in the deal that hasn't gone through even though there has been much to do about it? How much a month are they paying to store the rice. This to is a loss one that they can tell us today.

Or as I suspect they haven't a clue to how much.

Why all of a sudden after it is three months old do they decide they are going to pay the money they owe. Why didn't they sell the bonds when the money was due and there was no EC or Constitutional reason holding them back.

No we will never know the loss because the Government makes deals and refuses to pass the cost along on them.

[ggold]

No bank in their right mind is going to loan this administration a dime, unless it can secure it against assets. These criminals will sell out the country to line their own pockets.

Absolute BOCs

If I'm owed 50,000 baht by the government, I have an asset worth 50,000 baht that has the same quality as any other government debt. So a farmer can simply borrow against his givernment debt, no different than borrowing against a government bond.

there is a reason why the government aren't issuing Bonds, there won't be any buyers! I really would like to see a farmer borrow against government debt! That's like borrowing the same money twice to two different people!

[blokker]

The government is using off balance sheet financing for the rice scheme, to hide the losses.

They are not even willing to tell tax payers what the losses are exactly.

Supporting poor people is fine; but I recommend just sending them a check in the mail, properly accounted for (as it is tax payers' money). Subsidizing farmers by rigging the whole rice market and trying to hide the losses is just plain stupid.

What are the losses exactly?

Who knows?!

They are the future selling price of the rice, minus the price paid, plus the interest on any bond financing used to bridge the time needed to sell it.

So what is the future selling price of the rice exactly? Not known, nobody has a crystal ball.

And how much will the bond finance cost? A lot more now that Suthep scuppered the bond issue, and drove down the value of the Thai baht, but basically nobody knows for sure, because the bonds haven't yet been issued and can't be till the election is over.

And how long will it take to sell the backlog? Don't know, depends on the weather/world rice supplies & demands.

So it's not possible to calculate an exact loss because the loss isn't known and on the books until the capital item (rice) sells.

So Suthep pulls some exaggerated number from is butt and tells his supporters it, then tells them they're hiding that number from them! Throwing in a few mindless catch phrases to sell it as fact.

Should Yingluk have done this program without knowing all these things before hand? Of course she should! Because nobody ever knows these things beforehand. Shes in power, she tries stuff, some works, great!, Some fails, bad!, Some works after fixes, rice pledge likely falls into this category.

Sending poor people a check in the mail is not a good idea, use the money instead to build a rice reserve, its the staple diet of Thailand and floods are making supplies less reliable, so its a better use of the money.

Checks don't get rotten or eaten by rats; the rice reserve does.

And why subsidize only rice farmers? What about poor people in general, and the farmers in the south of Thailand who grow other things? Direct transfers (checks) are much better, and more transparent.

Edited January 27, 2014 by blokker

[northernjohn]

If it can afford to pump money into the economy why doesn't it pay for the rice it was supposed to pay for in October?

In case you didn't know it that was before Suthep and before Yingluck dissolved the house to fool people like you.

Out of curiosity do you believe this nonsense you post or are you just trolling?

Because the bond issue was scuppered, and it can't pay the farmers now during an election without the EC screaming 'vote buying'. Refer to comments higher up for timings and details.

"Out of curiosity do you believe this nonsense you post or are you just trolling?"

I find when people resort to insults it's a sign they lost.

I asked a honest question. It was not an insult. Just curious why you post nonsense.

You and I both know they could have sold the bonds before they dissolved the house.

Yet you continually ignore that reality and bring up another reality that they caused to happen to help them evade the fact that they are incompetent. Blame it on some one who says let's be honest.

They didn't have to dissolve the house. But it sure got them out from a load of trouble that people with a wee bit of financial understanding could see right thru.

[MMarlow]

And the answer is NO!!!!!!!!! Totally insane. And later you wonder why politicians are so disrespected in Thailand. They must know what they do is bad. Just return those greedy farmers their rice. This is acceptable. There must be a lesson in it for the farmers too!

Greedy farmers, that's a bit harsh isn't it? Don't they simply want to get paid for their rice that the government is holding?

Edited January 27, 2014 by MMarlow

[Basil B]

What happens if they say no?

Tomorrows headline: "33 banks blacklisted by CMPO for supporting protesters"

[animatic]

The desperation to buy the rice farmers back into the voting fold is a fetidly rancid smell in the air.

Mortgaging all the next generation of Thais into debt for half their lives is their solution

for better governance. Pathetic, thoughtless and amoral. But what can you expect from this crew.

Edited January 27, 2014 by animatic

[MMarlow]

Farmers will learn the hard way that you sell your product for what markets pay or you grow something else. This time its hard to feel sorry for them. Those bankers are no bankers if they lend money. It must hurt but it's the only way out. You pay them and they will pledge crop for the next 10 years.

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

They did exactly that, sold their rice for the price the market (the government in this case) was offering.

[Thai at Heart]

Good business sense put it out to the competitive market...

I'm sure a lot will be whining but at least they are trying to get the farmers paid for what they have already sold on promise.

I see a lot of posters hating the idea of for some reason and have no idea why they would wish hardship on hard working farmers. They deserve to be paid in full asap imo.

The government is using off balance sheet financing for the rice scheme, to hide the losses.

They are not even willing to tell tax payers what the losses are exactly.

Supporting poor people is fine; but I recommend just sending them a check in the mail, properly accounted for (as it is tax payers' money). Subsidizing farmers by rigging the whole rice market and trying to hide the losses is just plain stupid.

Indeed, it seems that thaksin made the worst of all systems. There wasn't even a quota

[ggold]

The government is using off balance sheet financing for the rice scheme, to hide the losses.

They are not even willing to tell tax payers what the losses are exactly.

Supporting poor people is fine; but I recommend just sending them a check in the mail, properly accounted for (as it is tax payers' money). Subsidizing farmers by rigging the whole rice market and trying to hide the losses is just plain stupid.

What are the losses exactly?

Who knows?!

They are the future selling price of the rice, minus the price paid, plus the interest on any bond financing used to bridge the time needed to sell it.

So what is the future selling price of the rice exactly? Not known, nobody has a crystal ball.

And how much will the bond finance cost? A lot more now that Suthep scuppered the bond issue, and drove down the value of the Thai baht, but basically nobody knows for sure, because the bonds haven't yet been issued and can't be till the election is over.

And how long will it take to sell the backlog? Don't know, depends on the weather/world rice supplies & demands.

So it's not possible to calculate an exact loss because the loss isn't known and on the books until the capital item (rice) sells.

So Suthep pulls some exaggerated number from is butt and tells his supporters it, then tells them they're hiding that number from them! Throwing in a few mindless catch phrases to sell it as fact.

Should Yingluk have done this program without knowing all these things before hand? Of course she should! Because nobody ever knows these things beforehand. Shes in power, she tries stuff, some works, great!, Some fails, bad!, Some works after fixes, rice pledge likely falls into this category.

Sending poor people a check in the mail is not a good idea, use the money instead to build a rice reserve, its the staple diet of Thailand and floods are making supplies less reliable, so its a better use of the money.

They are the future selling price of the rice, minus the price paid, plus the interest on any bond financing used to bridge the time needed to sell it.

By the time the cost of buying has been deducted from the selling price, you are in already in the red, add the other costs of storage etc and your in the red even more, by the time you get to the financing and interest payments the government would have been looking for more money to pay off the bonds.

So it's not possible to calculate an exact loss because the loss isn't known and on the books until the capital item (rice) sells.

It is very possible to calculate the losses in relation the the above, for example, the value of the commodity on the market in relation to what the government are paying for it and the fact that they can't sell it above market value plus all the storage etc. OH and the financing! in fact if you search there is a post about someone who made all these fact known back in September/October she was told to shut up and pushed out of her job!

Should Yingluk have done this program without knowing all these things before hand? Of course she should! Because nobody ever knows these things beforehand. Shes in power, she tries stuff, some works, great!, Some fails, bad!, Some works after fixes, rice pledge likely falls into this category.

Really? Question, do you really believe the above, Or is it a case of you really don't know what you are talking about. I have to admit one thing though you saved The best comment for last

use the money instead to build a rice reserve, its the staple diet of Thailand and floods are making supplies less reliable

You do realise that Thailand do have a rice reserve, it consists of all the rice they have not been able to sell. It will grow even larger when the next harvest of rice comes in.

Edited January 27, 2014 by ggold

[Phatcharanan]

No bank in their right mind is going to loan this administration a dime, unless it can secure it against assets. These criminals will sell out the country to line their own pockets.

Absolute BOCs

If I'm owed 50,000 baht by the government, I have an asset worth 50,000 baht that has the same quality as any other government debt. So a farmer can simply borrow against his givernment debt, no different than borrowing against a government bond.

Interesting article by Forbes regarding Thailand's 'bubble'

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolombo/2013/11/04/thailands-bubble-economy-is-heading-for-a-1997-style-crash/2/

[phka]

If this is true then Thailand is in really deep crap. Rob from Peter to pay Paul? Where has the money gone from the countries treasury? Yingluck will need to be called forward and explain where it has all gone! This is not about reds or yellows but about the point that she has to account for the money that does not exist and where the hell did it go and more likely whos pockets it went into!

good point WHY DONT they just dip into there own pockets maybe they are empty could always print more money

[Jip99]

Could try Dubai ?

[Phatcharanan]

What are the losses exactly?

Who knows?!

They are the future selling price of the rice, minus the price paid, plus the interest on any bond financing used to bridge the time needed to sell it.

So what is the future selling price of the rice exactly? Not known, nobody has a crystal ball.

And how much will the bond finance cost? A lot more now that Suthep scuppered the bond issue, and drove down the value of the Thai baht,

The longer the rice is stored then the greater the losses. It's a depreciating asset when stored in conditions such as those that exist in Thailand.

Thai baht, same as most emerging market countries, will be driven down in response to the Feds's tapering of its quantitative easing program.

[american12bthai]

Good business sense put it out to the competitive market...

I'm sure a lot will be whining but at least they are trying to get the farmers paid for what they have already sold on promise.

I see a lot of posters hating the idea of for some reason and have no idea why they would wish hardship on hard working farmers. They deserve to be paid in full asap imo.

then why does the government need to make the loan first. why doesnt the bank just GIVE the money directly to the farmers. .and the "government" tab it. .. HEEEELLLOOOOO everyone...

[american12bthai]

What happens if they say no?

Tomorrows headline: "33 banks blacklisted by CMPO for supporting protesters"

lol lol

[aimbc]

Oh boy, Suthep will be steaming tonight...

Maybe...but I don't think so. Either way, if they do get the loan, they are risking breaking the election law and they will be disqualified for the election. If they don't get the loan, they are screwed by the farmers. But at the end, when all said and done, they are screwed anyway as investigation into the rice scheme will put some in jail including YS. That is how democracy works.

[mrtoad]

Oh boy, Suthep will be steaming tonight...

Maybe...but I don't think so. Either way, if they do get the loan, they are risking breaking the election law and they will be disqualified for the election. If they don't get the loan, they are screwed by the farmers. But at the end, when all said and done, they are screwed anyway as investigation into the rice scheme will put some in jail including YS. That is how democracy works.

That is why they are so desperate to get the money. YS seems to ave done her usual and vanished as the country slps into anarchy.

[aimbc]

For those TV poster that don't have an understanding of the rice scheme. Many of you may not know that the quality of rice is, how should I say, substandard. When the govt proposed the rice deal, many farmers were geared on getting the highest yield, so a lot of them use excessive amount of pesticides, because quality was no longer important to them. Just quantity. Of course most people know that they were penalized for too much moisture, but I am sure the govt still withdrew taxpayer's money for the full amount. That is just part of it.

The other part is the transaction. A lot of rice buyers had to sort of pay a fee to bid for the rice. Now how did the govt get away with it? Those that took care of the govt., would bid for bad rice, which was a lot cheaper than the good rice. But when the rice was shipped out, they shipped out new rice to them. So basically all other bidders couldn't compete. These are the things that most rice traders are talking about. But no one can confirm that it is true, because guess what, the government is not disclosing anything. But I think it's quite accurate.

So now what you will have are old unsellable rice. And it will fetch a pretty low price. And most traders know that Thai govt is strap for cash for the rice, they will even cut them down below market rate. You can be to on it.

I can go into theory why there are missing rice that the govt can't account for and what their excuse will be. Missing rice will be rice that was either sold out the back door or easier, never existed but was reimbursed by taxpayer's money/farmer's money. One of the reason the govt. is so reluctant to sell the rice is that they want the rice to rot. So that they can have a perfect alibi saying that they disposed of the bad rice to save the good stock. There you have it. Theories like this can be disprove quickly if the facts are given, but by the nature of the govt. not disclosing the facts, it's likely that there are very bad thing happening behind the warehouses. And I don't think I am that far off.