corruption,love it

[true blue]

thank u mr policeman,after all it was a only a u turn,wasnt it,glad u excepted my apology and donation to the police benevolent fund,my god i love this country.

[Chiengmaijoe]

And that from a guy who's been here for 15 years!

[true blue]

always a first time for everything,hers to the next 15 years,please please.

[Chiengmaijoe]

always a first time for everything,hers to the next 15 years,please please.

Was it an illegal u-turn, and if so where was the corruption? As far as I know there is always an option to take a ticket and pay at the station. The only way corruption comes into it is if you offer a bribe instead, in which case you are aiding corruption.

[FolkGuitar]

Personally, I'd rather see the guy on the street who's risking his life every time he makes a traffic stop (who knows if the driver isn't some wacked-out ya-ba freak with a machete?) when we break a law designed to keep others safe get the money, rather than some big muckety-muck sitting safely behind a desk.

Corruption? Sure it is.

Did we break the law that endangered others? Sure we did.

Who took the risk to protect others?

If neither of us broke the law, there really wouldn't be an issue, would there.

[true blue]

always a first time for everything,hers to the next 15 years,please please.

Was it an illegal u-turn, and if so where was the corruption? As far as I know there is always an option to take a ticket and pay at the station. The only way corruption comes into it is if you offer a bribe instead, in which case you are aiding corruption.

now thats a enlighting comment on the situation,aiding and abetting,wonder how much that costs????

[Chiengmaijoe]

Personally, I'd rather see the guy on the street who's risking his life every time he makes a traffic stop (who knows if the driver isn't some wacked-out ya-ba freak with a machete?) when we break a law designed to keep others safe get the money, rather than some big muckety-muck sitting safely behind a desk.

Corruption? Sure it is.

Did we break the law that endangered others? Sure we did.

Who took the risk to protect others?

If neither of us broke the law, there really wouldn't be an issue, would there.

I've only ever been fined 4 or 5 times in twenty years and each time it was because I committed an offence. Once I took the easy option of paying on the spot and on all other occasions I took a ticket and paid at the station. I don't see where the corruption comes into it. I committed a traffic offence and paid accordingly, and a relatively small fine each time with no topping of points or threats of losing my licence. Seems quite reasonable to me.

I'd rather pay a slightly higher fine at the station than pay a bribe, because I don't like the idea of paying bribes. If you prefer the bribe that doesn't bother me, but you have to accept the fact that you are perpetuating the very system that you oppose.

The argument that the police are ignoring bigger problems for financial gain is common in a lot of countries now, I hear, including the UK!! The big argument there seems to be that the police are more interested in generating revenue than solving serious crime. Whether that's true or not I don't know, but it sounds familiar.

[northernjohn]

Personally, I'd rather see the guy on the street who's risking his life every time he makes a traffic stop (who knows if the driver isn't some wacked-out ya-ba freak with a machete?) when we break a law designed to keep others safe get the money, rather than some big muckety-muck sitting safely behind a desk.

Corruption? Sure it is.

Did we break the law that endangered others? Sure we did.

Who took the risk to protect others?

If neither of us broke the law, there really wouldn't be an issue, would there.

I've only ever been fined 4 or 5 times in twenty years and each time it was because I committed an offence. Once I took the easy option of paying on the spot and on all other occasions I took a ticket and paid at the station. I don't see where the corruption comes into it. I committed a traffic offence and paid accordingly, and a relatively small fine each time with no topping of points or threats of losing my licence. Seems quite reasonable to me.

I'd rather pay a slightly higher fine at the station than pay a bribe, because I don't like the idea of paying bribes. If you prefer the bribe that doesn't bother me, but you have to accept the fact that you are perpetuating the very system that you oppose.

The argument that the police are ignoring bigger problems for financial gain is common in a lot of countries now, I hear, including the UK!! The big argument there seems to be that the police are more interested in generating revenue than solving serious crime. Whether that's true or not I don't know, but it sounds familiar.

So you are corrupt only 20 or 25% of the time. I am against corruption but at the same time the BIB due find them selves in some dangerous situations occasionally and they don't make that much plus they are obliged to buy there own uniforms and guns.

[kimbathewhitelion]

You, he sounds like an (excuse the color) colorful drainage leak from America. People either need to jade down their comments or apply sensible knowledge (simple smarts or whatever).

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[kimbathewhitelion]

You, he sounds like an (excuse the color) colorful drainage leak from America. People either need to jade down their comments or apply sensible knowledge (simple smarts or whatever).

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

sorry

Ignore...

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Thailand]

What are those white chalk marks on the road?

[Loaded]

I was stopped the other day at a checkpoint for not wearing a seat-belt. Before the policeman started writing the ticket he said the fine is 500 baht. He paused possibly waiting for me to respond with an offer. I didn't. At the station the next day I retrieved my license after paying a 200 baht fine.

[FolkGuitar]

'Like' corruption? Since when were visitors (be they tourists or expats,) ever asked by locals (regardless of the country) to like or not like the local system?

We're here now. This is the system in place. It's up to the indigenous population to make changes. We've just got to function within it.

'Accept' the fact that 99% of the time the situation arose with OUR violating a law. Had we not, we wouldn't be in the position in the first place.

Illegal U-turn, not wearing a helmet, not wearing a seat belt, exceeding the speed limit... We started the process by breaking the law. Let's not bitch that the local folk do the same.

'Prefer' that the money goes where it belongs? I think that's a different story.

[DiamondKing]

always a first time for everything,hers to the next 15 years,please please.

Was it an illegal u-turn, and if so where was the corruption? As far as I know there is always an option to take a ticket and pay at the station. The only way corruption comes into it is if you offer a bribe instead, in which case you are aiding corruption.

I just go with the system and happy to pay the cop on the street his 200 baht and not go the station and wait for a long time my time is worth more than that.

Thats the way it is here and I am just a farang living here not my business to try and change anything here thats for the thais to do.

Edited January 29, 2014 by DiamondKing

[mesquite]

I see the BIB all over these days, and many times farang tourists wearing helmets have been pulled over. I assume they nail them for no license?

Edited January 29, 2014 by mesquite

[DiamondKing]

I see the BIB all over these days, and many times farang tourists wearing helmets have been pulled over. I assume they nail them for no license?

Yep got pulled over the other day I had my helmet on nothing illegal done just pulled over at one of those where they jump out in front of you

I did not have my license on me so had to pay no big deal but targeted for sure.

[sam sen]

so many anti-corruption posts on tv

nice to see someone putting the case for corruption

giving a bit of balance to the argument

[FolkGuitar]

so many anti-corruption posts on tv

nice to see someone putting the case for corruption

giving a bit of balance to the argument

I don't see it so much as 'putting the case for corruption.'

I see it as not trying to force my views on how life should be lived onto another culture.

I see it as appreciating the people doing the actual street work, rather than the bosses behind the scenes.

Does anyone really know where to monies paid into the police station end up, or at what percentage?

[FolkGuitar]

I see the BIB all over these days, and many times farang tourists wearing helmets have been pulled over. I assume they nail them for no license?

Yep got pulled over the other day I had my helmet on nothing illegal done just pulled over at one of those where they jump out in front of you

I did not have my license on me so had to pay no big deal but targeted for sure.

Targeted? Do you mean they were NOT stopping Thais?

[edwinchester]

thank u mr policeman,after all it was a only a u turn,wasnt it,glad u excepted my apology and donation to the police benevolent fund,my god i love this country.

Maybe you can explain your love of corruption to my Thai mother in law. Her teenage son was killed by a drunk driver who paid off the police to avoid all charges and responsibility. He didn't die at the scene but spent a week in icu first.

[richard_smith237]

thank u mr policeman,after all it was a only a u turn,wasnt it,glad u excepted my apology and donation to the police benevolent fund,my god i love this country.

Maybe you can explain your love of corruption to my Thai mother in law. Her teenage son was killed by a drunk driver who paid off the police to avoid all charges and responsibility. He didn't die at the scene but spent a week in icu first.

People can accept minor corruption, on the surface it appears victimless and harmless to others.

The issue is the knock on effect this minor corruption creates... It shows how short sighted some can be for a simple personal gain.

'The thin end of the wedge'.... accepting minor corruption as the norm leads to greater complacency towards greater issues as the post above illustrates.

I for one am a hypocrite: I'll pay the local BiB 100B if pulled over for a minor traffic infraction, however, I'm not so short sighted as to believe that there is no knock on effect with regards to complacent attitudes and laziness in policing.

It's just the way things are here. Playing along is often the simplest path forwards even when doing so sometimes goes against the grain, just so long a our attitudes and moral standards don't become so distorted by our adopted tolerance of things 'not quite right'.....

[DiamondKing]

I see the BIB all over these days, and many times farang tourists wearing helmets have been pulled over. I assume they nail them for no license?

Yep got pulled over the other day I had my helmet on nothing illegal done just pulled over at one of those where they jump out in front of you

I did not have my license on me so had to pay no big deal but targeted for sure.

Targeted? Do you mean they were NOT stopping Thais?

I would say targeted because I watched him pick me out of all the others whom he let pass, even one without an helmet on, so YES I would call that targeting wouldn't you ???

[uptheos]

Personally, I'd rather see the guy on the street who's risking his life every time he makes a traffic stop (who knows if the driver isn't some wacked-out ya-ba freak with a machete?) when we break a law designed to keep others safe get the money, rather than some big muckety-muck sitting safely behind a desk.

Corruption? Sure it is.

Did we break the law that endangered others? Sure we did.

Who took the risk to protect others?

If neither of us broke the law, there really wouldn't be an issue, would there.

I've only ever been fined 4 or 5 times in twenty years and each time it was because I committed an offence. Once I took the easy option of paying on the spot and on all other occasions I took a ticket and paid at the station. I don't see where the corruption comes into it. I committed a traffic offence and paid accordingly, and a relatively small fine each time with no topping of points or threats of losing my licence. Seems quite reasonable to me.

I'd rather pay a slightly higher fine at the station than pay a bribe, because I don't like the idea of paying bribes. If you prefer the bribe that doesn't bother me, but you have to accept the fact that you are perpetuating the very system that you oppose.

The argument that the police are ignoring bigger problems for financial gain is common in a lot of countries now, I hear, including the UK!! The big argument there seems to be that the police are more interested in generating revenue than solving serious crime. Whether that's true or not I don't know, but it sounds familiar.

So you are corrupt only 20 or 25% of the time. I am against corruption but at the same time the BIB due find them selves in some dangerous situations occasionally and they don't make that much plus they are obliged to buy there own uniforms and guns.

They could mix concrete under the hot sun, less dangerous and will make less for sure. But the advantage is that they can wear the same rags day in day out and tools such as shovels and wheelbarrows are all provided free of charge.

[Loaded]

Paying a policeman a bribe to avoid an official fine is illegal. Although it's common practice here, there's always the possibility a particularly malicious policeman may spin this into a 'crime' that requires an even bigger cash payment. 200 baht at the police station feels OK with me if it avoids completely this possibility.

[uptheos]

Paying a policeman a bribe to avoid an official fine is illegal. Although it's common practice here, there's always the possibility a particularly malicious policeman may spin this into a 'crime' that requires an even bigger cash payment. 200 baht at the police station feels OK with me if it avoids completely this possibility.

I agree that one needs to be careful how it's offered and I suppose going to the office really isn't a big deal.

I've been stopped twice (going back a few years), both times on a bike and both times I was wrong.

All I said to the guy was, " is it possible to pay it now?". Both times it was 100 baht.

It was convenient and as far as I'm concerned it's the same as an 'on the spot fine' anywhere else.

It's not my business where the money goes after I've paid it, anymore than I never asked where the money went after getting a free COR from immigration for 500 Baht.

If the Thai's want to sort this out it's up to them, I'm just a guest as I' told ad nauseam, so I'll just go with the flow.

[lkn]

I did not have my license on me so had to pay no big deal but targeted for sure.

Driver’s license or license for the motorbike ownership?

I rented a small motorbike (scooter) and was stopped. The policeman quickly told me that the license of the bike was expired and I had to pay a fine.

I showed him the papers I had gotten from the rental shop, took a picture of the supposedly expired license, and told him he could write me a ticket, and I would pass it on to the rental shop.

He then changed the issue to be about my driver’s license, of which I had none (being here on a tourist visa), after a little arguing about wether or not I was supposed to have a driver’s license for renting a motorbike he asked about my passport, which I did not carry with me, which was another finable offense (according to him).

I showed him a picture of my passport that I had on my phone.

In the end I think he wrote me a ticket for not having a driver’s license, though I told him to write it for the expired license. I gave the ticket to the rental shop where the clerk seemed rather disinterested.

Does anyone know what the rules are for foreigners renting scooters and driver’s license?

Are foreigners supposed to carry a passport on them at all times?

And what happens with unpaid tickets? Does it get recorded against the vehicle?

[DiamondKing]

I did not have my license on me so had to pay no big deal but targeted for sure.

Driver’s license or license for the motorbike ownership?

I rented a small motorbike (scooter) and was stopped. The policeman quickly told me that the license of the bike was expired and I had to pay a fine.

I showed him the papers I had gotten from the rental shop, took a picture of the supposedly expired license, and told him he could write me a ticket, and I would pass it on to the rental shop.

He then changed the issue to be about my driver’s license, of which I had none (being here on a tourist visa), after a little arguing about wether or not I was supposed to have a driver’s license for renting a motorbike he asked about my passport, which I did not carry with me, which was another finable offense (according to him).

I showed him a picture of my passport that I had on my phone.

In the end I think he wrote me a ticket for not having a driver’s license, though I told him to write it for the expired license. I gave the ticket to the rental shop where the clerk seemed rather disinterested.

Does anyone know what the rules are for foreigners renting scooters and driver’s license?

Are foreigners supposed to carry a passport on them at all times?

And what happens with unpaid tickets? Does it get recorded against the vehicle?

Mine was Drivers License but they can also check the tax for the Bike and also if you have your passport on you (legally supposed too but rarely enforced) they are are all fineable offence's he could also ask for the Green book if he really wanted to be an ass, and lastly you most certainly need a licence to rent a scooter legally

Edited January 29, 2014 by DiamondKing

[northernjohn]

so many anti-corruption posts on tv

nice to see someone putting the case for corruption

giving a bit of balance to the argument

I don't see it so much as 'putting the case for corruption.'

I see it as not trying to force my views on how life should be lived onto another culture.

I see it as appreciating the people doing the actual street work, rather than the bosses behind the scenes.

Does anyone really know where to monies paid into the police station end up, or at what percentage?

The problem I see with it is that we or most of us expats see it as penny anney corruption and many are willing to take part in it and in fact OK it. As I said in an earlier post almost justify it. I said that in different words of course.

That is fine for the expat because they know the difference between 200 baht into an officers pocket and billions into the pocket of the government officials.

The average Thai doesn't have a clue as to the size of corruption. to him or her it is just a means for them to save a few baht on a fine.They have no idea of the size of it. Then when the pollsters come around and ask them if they think it is wrong the majority of them say no they have no problem with it.

So in an indirect way we are helping them to approve of it at the governmental level while at the same time we say it is wrong.

[uptheos]

I did not have my license on me so had to pay no big deal but targeted for sure.

Driver’s license or license for the motorbike ownership?

I rented a small motorbike (scooter) and was stopped. The policeman quickly told me that the license of the bike was expired and I had to pay a fine.

I showed him the papers I had gotten from the rental shop, took a picture of the supposedly expired license, and told him he could write me a ticket, and I would pass it on to the rental shop.

He then changed the issue to be about my driver’s license, of which I had none (being here on a tourist visa), after a little arguing about wether or not I was supposed to have a driver’s license for renting a motorbike he asked about my passport, which I did not carry with me, which was another finable offense (according to him).

I showed him a picture of my passport that I had on my phone.

In the end I think he wrote me a ticket for not having a driver’s license, though I told him to write it for the expired license. I gave the ticket to the rental shop where the clerk seemed rather disinterested.

Does anyone know what the rules are for foreigners renting scooters and driver’s license?

Are foreigners supposed to carry a passport on them at all times?

And what happens with unpaid tickets? Does it get recorded against the vehicle?

Mine was Drivers License but they can also check the tax for the Bike and also if you have your passport on you (legally supposed too but rarely enforced) they are are all fineable offence's he could also ask for the Green book if he really wanted to be an ass, and lastly you most certainly need a licence to rent a scooter legally

Has anyone got a link to where this is written in Thai law?

I'm not disputing it, but would be interested to see the actual law in writing.

[FolkGuitar]

Targeted? Do you mean they were NOT stopping Thais?

I would say targeted because I watched him pick me out of all the others whom he let pass, even one without an helmet on, so YES I would call that targeting wouldn't you ???

It is an ancient Mariner,

And he stoppeth one of three.

'By thy long grey beard and glittering eye,

Now wherefore stopp'st thou me?

Is it not possible that you were the easiest to stop? Is it not possible that he had something in his eye and didn't see the guy without the helmet? I can think of a dozen different reasons why he 'may' have let the others pass. Yet you are certain he was targeting 'you.' I'm a farang, I ride through the road blocks daily. Sometimes I get stopped, sometimes I don't. There are always just as many (or more) Thais sitting there looking chagrined as there are tourists. Oddly enough, I've never felt 'targeted.' Once, I was riding a bike that I had bought a couple of months before, and the tax sticker had expired the month before. I didn't know. My bad. Frankly, I was embarrassed. I felt foolish. So I asked him if it were possible to pay the fine here or did I have to go to the cop shop? He said here was OK. He then directed me to go to Nong Hoy and get a new sticker, which I did as soon as I got back on the bike. Since then, I've never had a problem with the road blocks. I have my drivers license, copy of passport, current tax and insurance papers, and they've never asked for anything else. They look at the papers, smile at me, we say thank you to each other, and I ride off into the sunset. And never feel targeted. The farang without the helmet and the tourist without the license... they feel targeted. For some reason, they never feel embarrassed or foolish for not following the law.

The average Thai doesn't have a clue as to the size of corruption. to him or her it is just a means for them to save a few baht on a fine.They have no idea of the size of it. Then when the pollsters come around and ask them if they think it is wrong the majority of them say no they have no problem with it.

So in an indirect way we are helping them to approve of it at the governmental level while at the same time we say it is wrong.

I doubt we do either...

That the Thai policeman may get a few hundred baht for his pocket doesn't really affect the local economy quite the same way that the Thai politician who gets a few hundred thousand baht for his pocket does. Or on many cases, a few million baht. I'd say we get off easy!

Edited January 29, 2014 by FolkGuitar