corruption,love it

[uptheos]

Last time I was back home my granddaughter said to me, "don't park here" I said "why not" and she said because it's an 80 quid fine (4,000 + baht).

I think I like the 100 baht much better.

[northernjohn]

I did not have my license on me so had to pay no big deal but targeted for sure.

Driver’s license or license for the motorbike ownership?

I rented a small motorbike (scooter) and was stopped. The policeman quickly told me that the license of the bike was expired and I had to pay a fine.

I showed him the papers I had gotten from the rental shop, took a picture of the supposedly expired license, and told him he could write me a ticket, and I would pass it on to the rental shop.

He then changed the issue to be about my driver’s license, of which I had none (being here on a tourist visa), after a little arguing about wether or not I was supposed to have a driver’s license for renting a motorbike he asked about my passport, which I did not carry with me, which was another finable offense (according to him).

I showed him a picture of my passport that I had on my phone.

In the end I think he wrote me a ticket for not having a driver’s license, though I told him to write it for the expired license. I gave the ticket to the rental shop where the clerk seemed rather disinterested.

Does anyone know what the rules are for foreigners renting scooters and driver’s license?

Are foreigners supposed to carry a passport on them at all times?

And what happens with unpaid tickets? Does it get recorded against the vehicle?

Mine was Drivers License but they can also check the tax for the Bike and also if you have your passport on you (legally supposed too but rarely enforced) they are are all fineable offence's he could also ask for the Green book if he really wanted to be an ass, and lastly you most certainly need a licence to rent a scooter legally

Has anyone got a link to where this is written in Thai law?

I'm not disputing it, but would be interested to see the actual law in writing.

I would imagine it is written in Thai. Can you read Thai and correctly transfer it into English?

A lot can be lost in the translation.

[Paangjang]

I see the BIB all over these days, and many times farang tourists wearing helmets have been pulled over. I assume they nail them for no license?

Yep got pulled over the other day I had my helmet on nothing illegal done just pulled over at one of those where they jump out in front of you

I did not have my license on me so had to pay no big deal but targeted for sure.

Did you pay cash there and then or at the station? How much did you pay?

[blabth]

At least I take advantage by paying some tea money. Get my visa faster, don't have to go to the police ( specially when u r far away from your home ). That what the system is. The. Police is collecting the money and shares with their superiors. That goes up and up. And if you have done business here I am sure that some time extraordinary marketing expenses occurs, at least a round of Golf.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[LarryBird]

always a first time for everything,hers to the next 15 years,please please.

Was it an illegal u-turn, and if so where was the corruption? As far as I know there is always an option to take a ticket and pay at the station. The only way corruption comes into it is if you offer a bribe instead, in which case you are aiding corruption.

Nice grasp of ethics, pal.

Let me walk you through this... I'm speeding at 140 kmh in a 100kmh... I get stopped by a police officer. He tells me the appropriate fine "2000 Baht,",,, stares at me for a few seconds.. I show him 1000 baht, it's taken care of.

Who suffers? Me, or the police officer? Answer: Neither. The society which is a potential victim of behavior, but is never deterred as a result of a punishment which isn't severe enough due to the policeman looking to make a quick buck, and me looking to avoid a steeper penalty.

Your reply?

[Chiengmaijoe]

always a first time for everything,hers to the next 15 years,please please.

Was it an illegal u-turn, and if so where was the corruption? As far as I know there is always an option to take a ticket and pay at the station. The only way corruption comes into it is if you offer a bribe instead, in which case you are aiding corruption.

Nice grasp of ethics, pal.

Let me walk you through this... I'm speeding at 140 kmh in a 100kmh... I get stopped by a police officer. He tells me the appropriate fine "2000 Baht,",,, stares at me for a few seconds.. I show him 1000 baht, it's taken care of.

Who suffers? Me, or the police officer? Answer: Neither. The society which is a potential victim of behavior, but is never deterred as a result of a punishment which isn't severe enough due to the policeman looking to make a quick buck, and me looking to avoid a steeper penalty.

Your reply?

Thanks for walking me through that. My reply is I don't get your point. I said i normally pay at the station and at the same time I said the alternative is to pay a bribe and aid corruption. Due to the inconvenience of being restricted by time and being far from the city in Chiang Rai I did pay an on the spot fine once, but I would rather have not done it and I don't condone it. Whether that meets your ethical standards or not is of no concern to me, so need to reply, pal. Edited January 29, 2014 by Chiengmaijoe

[FolkGuitar]

always a first time for everything,hers to the next 15 years,please please.

Was it an illegal u-turn, and if so where was the corruption? As far as I know there is always an option to take a ticket and pay at the station. The only way corruption comes into it is if you offer a bribe instead, in which case you are aiding corruption.

Nice grasp of ethics, pal.

Let me walk you through this... I'm speeding at 140 kmh in a 100kmh... I get stopped by a police officer. He tells me the appropriate fine "2000 Baht,",,, stares at me for a few seconds.. I show him 1000 baht, it's taken care of.

Who suffers? Me, or the police officer? Answer: Neither. The society which is a potential victim of behavior, but is never deterred as a result of a punishment which isn't severe enough due to the policeman looking to make a quick buck, and me looking to avoid a steeper penalty.

Your reply?

Please permit me to question your question...

I know that this situation exists here. Doesn't bother me one way or the other. Neither for or against it.

Thais know that this situation exists here, and don't mind it enough to change it.

You know that this situation exists here. And you don't like it.

I know that as a foreigner, I can't change this situation, and that's O.K. because it doesn't bother me one way or the other.

You know that as foreigners, you can't change this situation. And you don't like it. It bothers you.

Thais don't care enough about this situation to change it.

I continue to live here. Doesn't bother me one way or the other.

Many foreigners continue to live here. And complain often about it. Is it really society that is suffering?

Or is it the foreigners?

Edited January 29, 2014 by FolkGuitar

[Chiengmaijoe]

While we're on the topic of corruption I'd like to add that although it might not seem like it, a lot of the small time day to day corruption that existed 25 years ago has vanished. I recently replaced a lost work permit and renewed my 5yr driving licence and in both instances the system was transparent , efficient and courteous. The same applies to renewing my one year visa.

20 years ago everything to do with officialdom was slow, surly and inefficient and the only way of getting anything like a decent service was to pay "under the table" . This was true of the land office, labour office and immigration amongst others. Believe it or not even banks were slow, miserable and discourteous. Unless you were a VIP you were treated with disdain by employees that mostly had paid for their position or got there because of connections. Times have changed in that respect although big government contract type corruption is much the same , or possibly worse, depending on what you read.

[2020]

So basically, I read people don't like corruption when its against them but on the other hand, enjoy corruption when it can gain preference.

Seems its like making love with the most beautiful woman/man (your preference) in the world, then a week later finding out you have herpes.

So what is it?

How dare anyone complain about it when on previous occasions it has been enjoyed.

[FolkGuitar]

So basically, I read people don't like corruption when its against them but on the other hand, enjoy corruption when it can gain preference.

I'd say that sums up humanity in general, not just for corruption but just about every unethical/immoral situation we encounter in our daily lives.

Am I getting too cynical in my old age?

Edited January 30, 2014 by FolkGuitar

[northernjohn]

always a first time for everything,hers to the next 15 years,please please.

Was it an illegal u-turn, and if so where was the corruption? As far as I know there is always an option to take a ticket and pay at the station. The only way corruption comes into it is if you offer a bribe instead, in which case you are aiding corruption.

Nice grasp of ethics, pal.

Let me walk you through this... I'm speeding at 140 kmh in a 100kmh... I get stopped by a police officer. He tells me the appropriate fine "2000 Baht,",,, stares at me for a few seconds.. I show him 1000 baht, it's taken care of.

Who suffers? Me, or the police officer? Answer: Neither. The society which is a potential victim of behavior, but is never deterred as a result of a punishment which isn't severe enough due to the policeman looking to make a quick buck, and me looking to avoid a steeper penalty.

Your reply?

Please permit me to question your question...

I know that this situation exists here. Doesn't bother me one way or the other. Neither for or against it.

Thais know that this situation exists here, and don't mind it enough to change it.

You know that this situation exists here. And you don't like it.

I know that as a foreigner, I can't change this situation, and that's O.K. because it doesn't bother me one way or the other.

You know that as foreigners, you can't change this situation. And you don't like it. It bothers you.

Thais don't care enough about this situation to change it.

I continue to live here. Doesn't bother me one way or the other.

Many foreigners continue to live here. And complain often about it. Is it really society that is suffering?

Or is it the foreigners?

I don't have to support it because I don't drive. But just because a person can afford it and breaks the law doe's not make it rite. Just because a foreigner is a foreigner it does not make it rite.

I will agree with that if the person that claims it is OK in there home country says when stopped for not wearing a seat belt say in Canada over a $100 fine says to the officer well here is $50.

There is no justification for it. Other than it is easier to do than being honest and being a cheap Charlie I can save 200 baht. Besides every one else does it.

[FolkGuitar]

Northern John said: I don't have to support it because I don't drive. But just because a person can afford it and breaks the law doe's not make it rite. Just because a foreigner is a foreigner it does not make it rite.

There was never a question about it being right or wrong. Who are we to judge, anyway?

The Thai law says it's illegal but the Thai society accepts it as a way of dealing with life. We, as foreigners living here, have only one option, and that's accepting that this is the way the Thais want it.

There is no justification for it.....

Again, there is no need to 'justify' it, or not justify it. It's an intrinsic part of the culture in which we live.

As my sergeant used to say, 'you don't gotta like it. Ya just gotta live with it. If ya don't wanna, then find another job.'

[2020]

So basically, I read people don't like corruption when its against them but on the other hand, enjoy corruption when it can gain preference.

I'd say that sums up humanity in general, not just for corruption but just about every unethical/immoral situation we encounter in our daily lives.

Am I getting too cynical in my old age?

No, not cynical at all. Bang on in fact!

[trainman34014]

They could make a lot more money than they do for sure. Kinda strange really; it's corruption, thieving, cheating, whatever you want to call it, but they only seem to take enough to keep themselves, or the boss happy, and the people let them get away with it as it's not too much.

I stood almost next to the Policeman who controls traffic every morning near our village market and as i watched the cars and pick up's go by i noticed about 50-60% of people weren't wearing seat belts. Motorbikes were passing with three/four people on and many had no helmets yet he didn't stop anyone at all, even when things were blatantly stopped right in front of him.

[hml367]

Does anyone posting here have any idea of any of the suggestions that have been made as to why there is corruption and where it came from specifically in Thailand?

[ableguy]

so many anti-corruption posts on tv

nice to see someone putting the case for corruption

giving a bit of balance to the argument

I don't see it so much as 'putting the case for corruption.'

I see it as not trying to force my views on how life should be lived onto another culture.

I see it as appreciating the people doing the actual street work, rather than the bosses behind the scenes.

Does anyone really know where to monies paid into the police station end up, or at what percentage?

Themoney is shared out to all at the station as the desk jockeys cannot collect on the street.

[FolkGuitar]

Listen dude you were not there I was wearing a helmet and I felt targeted because I was there was no reason to stop me, I was riding brand new Chopper big bike and he obviously figured he could get me on something and he did because I did not have my license ON ME i have a license but not on me

Dude? Are you a teenager? Can't you speak like a grown-up?

So the cop was correct in his assessment, wasn't he.

Now when you see others PASS INFRONT OF ME WITHOUT A HELMET ON and him staring right at me and I have my helmet on and the guy in front of me does not and he lets him pass at a snails pace, but I am the one who is pulled over then yes CLEARLY TARGETED.

All right, you were targeted. Stop whining about it.

The result was that the cop was accurate in his assessment that you would be breaking the law. And you were.

But tell me this... why don't they target me? I'm a farang. I don't get stopped any more than anyone else on the street. And yes, sometimes some ride through without helmets while others get stopped for not having them. Do you ever wonder why you feel so persecuted?

<<<<inflammatory comments edited out>>>>

LOL! I certainly am too! It saves me from the grief you so obviously are forced to live with.

Putting a card in my wallet along side a small square of copy paper, and having copies of my insurance papers under the saddle really isn't much of a chore. I'm pretty tough... I can carry the weight.

and and are a good little boy and comply with the law. you deserve a round of applause

Trying to be condescending doesn't win you any points. It just exemplifies my first sentence in this post.

If you wish to break the laws that's entirely up to you. When you get fined for it, at least man up and stop crying about it.

Edited January 30, 2014 by metisdead

[LarryBird]

You guys should write philosophy books.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post and reply has been removed.