Change Class 'b' To 'o' And One Year Extension

[JOCK67]

British, under 50 years old, living in Thailand, married to Thai National and we have one daughter.

Current Visa is a One Year Multiple Entry Non-Imm Class 'B' issued in the UK in Aug'05. The projects which the Visa was issued for never eventuated and as such no WP was ever applied for. The company who guarantored the Visa had no other available work so I have simply been utilising this Visa to stay in Thailand and do Visa Runs every 90 days. My last entry was end Feb'06 and my current stay ends this weekend (27th May). The Visa validity expires mid-Aug'06.

I have new Consultancy work which will start in June and as such I want to make a WP applic but based on a Class 'O' Dependants Visa (with a view to Residency Applic later) and also to take advantage of the THB 1m Paid-up Capital / One Thai Employee ruling (I will make WP applic either through an employer or through my own company which I am looking to start setting up in the next week or so). I intend to make a Visa Run this weekend and then visit Imm Dept next week to change Visa Status from 'B' to 'O' and make an applic for Extension of Stay based on last entry (27th May).

My queries are as follows:

1. When I make the applic for One Year Ext will they simply ask me to fill out TM.86 for the Change of Visa Class and turn me down on the Ext as I will not be within 30 days of the expiry date and then ask me to return in 60 days and make the extension applic at the end of July. If they do then this will cause me problems as I intend to go to the UK for 4 weeks in Aug and this could mean that they will stamp my Passport for returning to Imm Dept on a date when I will be out of country.

2. Is it simply easier to go to Imm Dept before Friday and make the Change of Visa / One Year Extension based on my current last entry (end Feb'06)? The problem with this is that if they only give me 9 months (based on 400K in bank but not currently working so no recent tax history) then this will mean applying for further One Year Ext at end Nov'06 and then being stamped to return to Imm Dep around end Dec'06 / start Jan '07 which could well present me with a similar timing problem if I am overseas at that time.

3. When making the Applic for One Year Ext (TM.7) the requirement is to state the type of Visa currently being utilised. In this case where would I notify that a Change of Visa Class is required too. Do I need to fill out a TM.86 and pay THB 2,000 (previous answers to other Forum threads suggests that this is not necessary). If I can simply make the change of Class at the same time as Extension Applic what is the procedure involved? What pitfalls should I be aware of?

4. What are the chances of having to return only once to the Imm Dept after initial applic if all documents are in order?

Lots of Ifs, Buts & Maybe's in there as usual in Thailand. Any advice or suggestions will be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Jock

Edited May 23, 2006 by JOCK67

[JOCK67]

Does anyone have any experience with what I am looking to acheive?

I noted that 'Lopburi' commented on another thread that it is sometimes possible to apply for the extension earlier than the normal '30 days before expiry'.

I also noted from other threads that 'Indo-Siam' seems knowledgable re the do-ability of changing a 'B' to an 'O' whilst applying for an extension.

I would like to make an informed decision by tomorrow so I can follow the safest route.

Thanks in advance for any pointers.

[Maestro]

My queries are as follows:

1. When I make the applic for One Year Ext will they simply ask me to fill out TM.86 for the Change of Visa Class and turn me down on the Ext as I will not be within 30 days of the expiry date and then ask me to return in 60 days and make the extension applic at the end of July. If they do then this will cause me problems as I intend to go to the UK for 4 weeks in Aug and this could mean that they will stamp my Passport for returning to Imm Dept on a date when I will be out of country.

2. Is it simply easier to go to Imm Dept before Friday and make the Change of Visa / One Year Extension based on my current last entry (end Feb'06)? The problem with this is that if they only give me 9 months (based on 400K in bank but not currently working so no recent tax history) then this will mean applying for further One Year Ext at end Nov'06 and then being stamped to return to Imm Dep around end Dec'06 / start Jan '07 which could well present me with a similar timing problem if I am overseas at that time.

3. When making the Applic for One Year Ext (TM.7) the requirement is to state the type of Visa currently being utilised. In this case where would I notify that a Change of Visa Class is required too. Do I need to fill out a TM.86 and pay THB 2,000 (previous answers to other Forum threads suggests that this is not necessary). If I can simply make the change of Class at the same time as Extension Applic what is the procedure involved? What pitfalls should I be aware of?

4. What are the chances of having to return only once to the Imm Dept after initial applic if all documents are in order?

I have no personal experience with the procedure you describe but to the best of my knowledge it works like this:

1. Whether Immigration gives you a reporting date other than the standard period on your application for extension, to suit your travel plans, is entirely at the discretion of the immigration official.

2. Simpler than what? Simpler than making the applications for visa change and extension after your return from your trip in August? Will your multiple-entry non-B visa, issued in August 2005, still be valid on the date you return from your trip in August 2006? Another option would be to obtain a single-entry or multiple entry non-O visa while in the UK in August.

Once you apply for annual extension, you will need to be in Thailand for subsequent extensions at about the same time every year, and it is for you to choose when you want that to be:

Option 1: Having last entered Thailand at the beginning of February and applying for extension now, you will receive an extension until the beginning of February 2007 (364 days after your last entry). This means subsequent annual applications for extension between beginning of January and beginning of February.

Option 2 (if your current multiple-entry visa remains valid for your return to Thailand in August 2006): Apply for visa change and extension in October/November. Subsequent annual applications for extensions within 30 days before expiration of permission to stay, which means applications July/August.

Option 3, with new, single-entry non-O visa: same time-scale as Option 2)

Option 4, with new, multiple-entry non-O visa: apply during the last 30 days of any 90-day permission to stay, choosing your entry date to suit your desired renewal date for annual applications in subsequent years. This option gives you the greatest leeway to choose a suitable date.

3. While the application for change of visa category and annual extension can be made during the same visit to Immigration, it is still a two-step process: first the change of visa, then the application for extension based on the new visa type.

4. In Bangkok (Suan Plu), according to a recent post of Lopburi’s, after application usually only one repeat visit, after 40 days. Upcountry, two or more repeat visits, usually at 30-day intervals.

---------------

Maestro

[lopburi3]

Sorry but your post has so much information in it that I have a headache before I can finnish reading it and a hard time to offer advise as you seem to rule out most normal options because of your travels. When you say my last entry and put a future date it melts my mind.

But the truth is that only immigration is going to be able to answer you as what seems to fit your situation is not the normal procedure so you will have to ask them and plead your case.

As said it is normally one return visit in 40-45 days in Bangkok and upcountry it can be one return in 30 days if you are lucky (there were a lot of fast turnarounds reported last year) or it may take several 30 day extension periods.

[Richard Hall]

First of all visa changes can only be done in the headquarters of Immigration on Soi Suan Plu and no other Immigration Offices.

Important is that your staying permit never expires. If this has been taken care of do not concentrate in the intial stage of changing and extending at the same time but do it step by step.

First step will be to change your visa from a Non-Immigrant B, multiple entry to a Non-Immigrant O, single entry (if you want to avoid visa runs in the future - but this will require a re-entry permit prior to leaving the country).

Visa changes are not done on the ground flour of Immigration but there is an office on the second or third floo exclusively dealing with visa changes. Have you wife and daugther with you, your wedding certificate and also evidence that you have 400,000 Baht in a Thai bank account.

When the visa change is being done you will receive a stamp in your passport indicating that your visa has been changed from "B" and "O" and this stamp and your staying permit stamp should absolutely do the job. Immigration may just leave your staying permit stamp as is means you have to reply for an extension prior to its exparation or may extend immediately to the remainder of a full year upon all qualifications for a one year stay have been fulfilled. Do not worry about the arrival card because the visa change stamp already cover this subject. The old one will be turned in and replaced by a new current one the next time you leave and return from/to Thailand.

If you take care of the visa change before this week's Friday (May 26) this may be saving you a visarun certainly provided you fulfill the qualifications for an up to one year staying permit.

Good luck,

Richard

Edited May 24, 2006 by Richard Hall

[JOCK67]

Maestro, many thanks for your response to my Post.

Basically, I want to do the change from 'B' to 'O' now and do the extension now so that I can then proceed to start-up my company and make my WP applic using the 'O' visa & extension (all in June).

I would like to avoid having to wait until the end of July to apply for the extension as per my reasoning in my Q.1 (Original Post) although that may be OK depending on whether I had to return to Imm Dep in Soi Suan Phlu in 45 days and not 30 days (which of these is the more likely?) and the timing was right for my return to Thailand from the UK.

Certainly, don't want to have to bother with re-applying for an 'O' whilst in the UK which I would have to do as the current Visa will not be valid after mid-Aug as we will return to Thailand at the end of Aug or early Sept.

So to summarise:

1) I guess the crux of my problem still remains in trying ascertain whether after doing a Visa Run this weekend if I go to Imm Dep next week am I then going to be turned away for trying to obtain a One Year Ext too soon and be told to come back in 60 days?

2) Question remains also whether I will be given only 9 months as my 1st Ext (based on 400K, no WP, no tax docs) or if I could be successful in obtaining the 1 year Ext from the start.

Both of the above will factor into which entry date I go for (Feb'06 as currently in passport or May'06 if I choose to do the Visa Run on Saturday).

Thanks for any further help or advice on 1) or 2) above.

[Sunbelt Asia]

1. When I make the applic for One Year Ext will they simply ask me to fill out TM.86 for the Change of Visa Class and turn me down on the Ext as I will not be within 30 days of the expiry date and then ask me to return in 60 days and make the extension applic at the end of July. If they do then this will cause me problems as I intend to go to the UK for 4 weeks in Aug and this could mean that they will stamp my Passport for returning to Imm Dept on a date when I will be out of country.

You do not need to change this 90 day stamp "B" visa in order to apply for the extension of stay based on support of a Thai national.

2. Is it simply easier to go to Imm Dept before Friday and make the Change of Visa / One Year Extension based on my current last entry (end Feb'06)? The problem with this is that if they only give me 9 months (based on 400K in bank but not currently working so no recent tax history) then this will mean applying for further One Year Ext at end Nov'06 and then being stamped to return to Imm Dep around end Dec'06 / start Jan '07 which could well present me with a similar timing problem if I am overseas at that time.

In Nov, if you show your plane ticket, they will adjust the pick up date.

3. When making the Applic for One Year Ext (TM.7) the requirement is to state the type of Visa currently being utilised. In this case where would I notify that a Change of Visa Class is required too. Do I need to fill out a TM.86 and pay THB 2,000 (previous answers to other Forum threads suggests that this is not necessary). If I can simply make the change of Class at the same time as Extension Applic what is the procedure involved? What pitfalls should I be aware of?

No need to change as per #1

4. What are the chances of having to return only once to the Imm Dept after initial applic if all documents are in order?

Only, once would be high odds.

www.lawyer.th.com

[JOCK67]

Lopburi3, Richard & Sunbelt, thanks for info.

Yes, I must agree my Orig post reads like a Govt Document and I had a sore head thinking about it too! Ha ha.

Thanks esp. Sunbelt for info on Plane Ticket (that makes sense and I could then arrange the timing if I had to extend at the end of July before I go to UK).

Any thoughts on 1) & 2) of my last post.

Many thanks.

Edited May 24, 2006 by JOCK67

[Sunbelt Asia]

1) I guess the crux of my problem still remains in trying ascertain whether after doing a Visa Run this weekend if I go to Imm Dep next week am I then going to be turned away for trying to obtain a One Year Ext too soon and be told to come back in 60 days?

Odds are you will be told to come back. Show a plane ticket and they will process it.

2) Question remains also whether I will be given only 9 months as my 1st Ext (based on 400K, no WP, no tax docs) or if I could be successful in obtaining the 1 year Ext from the start.

You should get one year from the time you arrive in Thailand( on the 90 day stamp)

www.lawyer.th.com

[JOCK67]

Thanks for further info, Sunbelt.

The reason I am concerned about the possibility of only initially being given 9 months was that the Rules & Conditions issued by Nong Khai Imm Office indicate in Clause 9.3 that if the applicant does not have employment they will only receive 9 months at time of 1st Extension. Perhaps they are not so concerned about this in Bangkok in which case I'll be OK !?...

...or is it another case of depending on which Official you are dealing with and their individual interpretation of your application and how you go in the interview?

[Khutan]

First of all visa changes can only be done in the headquarters of Immigration on Soi Suan Plu and no other Immigration Offices. <snip>

Richard - you can also do that at the One-Stop service in Rachada. They have all the forms and also a big flow chart how to do it for each different visa.

I agree though Other than Suan Phlu or One-Stop the only other option is to leave the country and apply for another Visa.

[lopburi3]

All you get on any first extension of stay for support Thai wife first application will be nine months or less. You apply after you have been here two months - it takes one to three months to receive approval - your final extension is up to the date you entered the country prior to application - less than nine months.

[JOCK67]

So, it's definitely a year extension from last entry date, though in real terms that might end up being 9 months or less from approval date. They won't stamp me with a 9 month extension from last entry date.

[lopburi3]

You entered on a visa permitted to stay stamp so do not believe there is any way they would consider that part of a nine month "extension of stay" but I do recall Nong Khai had some special condition for those that did not meet the 400k or work conditions the first year so perhaps that is what they called a "9 month extension" and did count from entry. But I assume you do meet the bank requirements so it should not be an issue.

[Carnation]

hi! hope you were able to obtain enough info. i would like to share my experience when i had to change my non-immigrant visa from 'f' to 'o' when i stopped working. when my office requested to cancel my type 'f' visa, i was given only 15 days to stay and then after that i had to apply for a type 'o' visa at the immigration office in suan phlu. i am married to a thai. my application was under consideration for about 2 months, afterwhich it was again extended for another 2 months as they have not finished processing my application. during this period they had to go and verify whether i am really married to a thai by interviewing people we know esp my spouse's colleagues, our neighbours, and they also came to our house to check whether we are really living together as husband and wife. they took photos of our things to see if there are 2 sets there. after that, when we went back to the immigration on the due date of my visa, they finally approved and stamped it for one year from the date of the application. since then i just had to go to the immigration office before my visa expires once a year, i would normally go a few days before it expires to apply for another year. they would normally give 40 days extension and then after that the visa is again extended for another year. hope this helps.

[JOCK67]

The Immigration Bureau explains the new rules in effect July 10, 2004

BANGKOK: The Immigration Bureau has released an official document in English describing in detail the new visa extension regulations in case of beeing a foriegn husband supporting a Thai wife.

The PDF-file can be viewed or downloaded from thaivisa.com website here.

The official document is issued by the Immigration Bureau's office in Nongkhai, but reflects all areas of Thailand as the final approval of all one year applications are done in Bangkok.

Surprisingly there is no mention of any grandfathered conditions for applicants already in the extension system.

Source: thaiimmigration.com

Note: You need to have the free Adobe Reader installed on your computer in order to view/download the file.

Lopburi, this is the link to the Nong Khai Rules and Conditions I was refering to. They mention the 9 months at Clause 9.3. Hopefully this is only Nong Khai that apply this rule.

Carnation, thanks for info. It is helpful. Fore-warned is fore-armed as they say. I'd better get the apartment ship-shape so they don't trip over our daughters toys & books while they're trying to take the photos - that would be fun. We'll have our daughter with us when we go to Suan Phlu tomorrow so hope that is convincing enough for them and we can avoid the 'third degree'.

Edited May 25, 2006 by JOCK67

[JOCK67]

Decided not to do the Visa Run but took the family on a wee outing to Soi Suan Phlu this morning and it went as follows:

1. Picked up a queue number from the Information Desk just inside the entrance.

2. Proceeded directly to Room 101 where, after my number was called, I submitted my Applic plus all required Documents (Original + 1 Copy) plus THB 1,900. All originals returned to me except Bank Certification Letter. Requested to draw a small map of the location of our Apartment for their info (we'll see if they visit or not).

3. Moved over to another official where after a brief check through my Docs the official asked to speak to my wife alone.

4. I took my leave and waited with my daughter whilst my wife answered a few basic questions regarding myself (and my immediate family back in my home country), my wife and also what I was doing now and what I would be doing for employment in the future.

5. We swapped our daughter over and I went across and answered mostly the same questions. Gave them my home & mobile tel no. as requested.

6. Got stamped to come back in 30 days. Job done.

Quite a lot of people there but took just over an hour including about a 25 minute wait before being called. Not too bad.

As advised by Sunbelt there was no need to do a change from 'B' to 'O' as the extension is based on whatever Docs you provide and your reason for extending.

I noticed that previous Extensions and Re-entry Permits in my Passport that I had whilst working in Thailand before never state what type of Visa you were using, only that you are 'Under Consideration' and then once approved 'Extension of Stay Permitted Up To'. I assume there is no reference in Passport to Visa Category made in the case of 'O' extensions either.

New Question:If I start up a company through which I wish to issue myself a Work Permit can I go ahead and start proceedings to establish Company & WP based on being 'Under Consideration' or do I need (or is it better) to wait for the Approved Extension and apply for my Re-entry Permit (with it's Ref. No.) so that they can link WP & the Extension + Re-entry Permit? My understanding from other Forum Posts is that the old 'B' Visa is now obsolete as I am in the Extension process.

Edited May 26, 2006 by JOCK67

[Khutan]

<snip> i am married to a thai. my application was under consideration for about 2 months, afterwhich it was again extended for another 2 months as they have not finished processing my application. during this period they had to go and verify whether i am really married to a thai by interviewing people we know esp my spouse's colleagues, our neighbours, and they also came to our house to check whether we are really living together as husband and wife. they took photos of our things to see if there are 2 sets there.<snip>

So true, that is the way it works, and it depends on the police where you live. The law says something like "living in a Public Marraige" so they are certainly entitled to check. I had some luck as I moved to Suphanburi during the extension and my wife and I used to eat at a restaurant that was also popular with the police. I also used to buy them the odd drink. What got even more strange was the police used to regularly watch a house near where I lived as a judge lived near me, and I encouraged the police to sit on my front porch in the shade whenever we were out.

The day the letter came from Suan Phlu via Prakhanong to Suphan, the police were a little amused they had to formally visit us, as they knew us well to be married. So we had a few beers, showed the wedding pics and well it was a nice evening.

It is strange some of the quirks of the law.

Moving on, You can start a business on a Non-O. You can also get a work permit and all the other stuff your Non-B allows. The real difference is your income requirements for a Non-O for a W/P is slightly higher than a Non-B, but if you lose your job, it does not matter so much, as your wife is the one who wants you here and you are working to support her.

[lopburi3]

Moving on, You can start a business on a Non-O. You can also get a work permit and all the other stuff your Non-B allows. The real difference is your income requirements for a Non-O for a W/P is slightly higher than a Non-B, but if you lose your job, it does not matter so much, as your wife is the one who wants you here and you are working to support her.

For most people the income requirement for support Thai wife at 40k will be lower than for an employment extension.

See post was about w/p rather than immigration and have no knowledge of that requirement.

[Sunbelt Asia]

New Question:If I start up a company through which I wish to issue myself a Work Permit can I go ahead and start proceedings to establish Company & WP based on being 'Under Consideration' or do I need (or is it better) to wait for the Approved Extension and apply for my Re-entry Permit (with it's Ref. No.) so that they can link WP & the Extension + Re-entry Permit? My understanding from other Forum Posts is that the old 'B' Visa is now obsolete as I am in the Extension process.

Go ahead form the company. By that time, you will only have 10 days remaining on your 30 day "under consideration" stamp. Do not apply for the work permit then. Wait till you get the one year extension in 10 days. You then will have a work permit valid for 1 year with it expiring in 9 months.

If you apply 10 days before the "under consideration" stamp is up( right around when the company set-up is done" Your work permit will be valid for 1 day which you will have the wisdom of paying government fees of 850 Baht and then 3,100 Baht for the 1 year the next day or so.

By waiting 10 days or so, you only pay the 1 year government fee of 3,100 Baht.

www.lawyer.th.com