My two dogs have become very aggressive - Advice Please

[Sheryl]

Spay them, and be sure they get enough exercise.

hopefully the pictures are not typical of how they are kept, they need much more room to move about than that, as well as regular walks/free runs.

[Beetlejuice]

Having the dogs spayed is unlikely to make them less aggressive towards each other. This is not hormone thing but rather a claim over territory and a competition for wanting to be the main attentions of the owners.

It makes no different whether the dogs are 2 females, 2 males or a male and a female, once this happens the only options are to re-home one of the dogs or keep them separated on the property. My father was a dog breeder in the States before and after the war and so was his father before him. My family have a wealth of experience regarding canine behaviour.

This does not always happen with all dogs, as many will be quite content and live peacefully together, but in the cases when dogs do begin to lose tolerance of each other, than it becomes a difficult situation to solve.

My advice is; check this out online or speak to a reputable vet

Edited January 30, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[sunshine51]

A lot of good info here for the OP and I will

only add a small bit about showing affection.

I have 4 dogs, 3 are rescues from the Soi's,

one from a raging storm drain. They're great

mutts...however...when it comes to the showing

of affection by either the missus or myself we

show it to all the mutts not just one in particular

at any one time. Ya got 2 hands...can pet 2

dogs, we have 4 hands, can pet 4 dogs and

it's all done together at one time. They be happy

pooches too.

Sip satang from me....

Edited January 31, 2014 by sunshine51

[dotx]

Having the dogs spayed is unlikely to make them less aggressive towards each other. This is not hormone thing but rather a claim over territory and a competition for wanting to be the main attentions of the owners.

It makes no different whether the dogs are 2 females, 2 males or a male and a female, once this happens the only options are to re-home one of the dogs or keep them separated on the property.

This is NOT true, since I've been through this myself with my two males. After neutering them, I did keep them separate for several months (split the yard in two with a fence and put one on each side during the day; at night they both slept inside, but on separate rooms, with a closed door in between them).

After several months, I started "reintroducing" them. First for just a few minutes every day, then longer and longer. It's been over a year and a half since the reintroduction and they now live together again. No more fences and they both sleep in the bedroom with me.

It took a LOT of work. I had to learn what triggers the behavior (it's always the bigger dog that starts the fights but the other doesn't back away once it happens), feed them away from each other and don't give them treats or toys unless supervised (both are huge reasons for fights).

They still have bad days (yesterday was actually one of them), when the big dog just seems to wake up in a bad mood and will "attack" the other dog for no reason whatsoever from morning till night. I use quotation marks because the attacks are all about barking, but they don't actually bite each other, so there's no damage (before the neutering and the training, there were a couple of bloody incidents, though). On bad days, it happens 10 times a day, but it lasts maybe 10-15 seconds and then it's over. Sometimes they even play together a few minutes later. Bad days happen maybe a couple of times a month.

Again, I'm not saying it's easy. It's actually pretty hard work. But it can definitively be done and you don't have to just get rid of one of the dogs.

[sometime]

A lot of good info here for the OP and I will

only add a small bit about showing affection.

I have 4 dogs, 3 are rescues from the Soi's,

one from a raging storm drain. They're great

mutts...however...when it comes to the showing

of affection by either the missus or myself we

show it to all the mutts not just one in particular

at any one time. Ya got 2 hands...can pet 2

dogs, we have 4 hands, can pet 4 dogs and

it's all done together at one time. They be happy

pooches too.

Sip satang from me....

Very correct coment, fuss all the dogs together, we have 4 rescue dogs who dont fight because I am top dog.

I am able to take away from them their food or hide chews and return it with a fuss.

[stedyedy]

Exercise is a big one tire them out then they wont want to bother fighting this is whats a must for pitbulls or powerfull breeds because they want to go go go,and the instant they attack is when you should yell out so they know whos pack leader drawing there attention away from each other.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[ThaiLife]

Some great advice , which we are going to act upon . To day we travelled to the nearest vet's and asked about having both the dogs spayed , one dog ( Black ) is 24Kg in weight and the Brown and white dog is 21Kg , the cost quoted was 1,500 Baht each and the procedure can be performed on both dogs in one day . As we cant currently trust both dogs to be taken together at the same time in the same vehicle to the vet's it will mean two separate independent journeys . To day when we both returned from visiting the vet's I opened the house gate ( the dogs cannot see over the boundary wall or gate ) as normal and saw both the dogs standing side by side in the drive way , the black dog seemed happy to see me and started to move towards me , as soon as this happened the brown and white dog instantly and very quickly attacked the black dog and no amount of commands made a difference, so I and my wife had to physically part them both as they were locked together .

On parting the dogs , I had hold of the brown and white dog and as I had recently seen on a dog training video , I grabbed its neck area and pushed the dog down to the ground , at the same time shouting a command No . This action made the dog lie in and stay in a submissive position and the dog seemed to calm down .

The black dog was put in her pen ( we have two separate secure areas for each dog ) and the dog went into her area with out a problem apart from a bloody wound which we treated later .

If I first let the black dog out of her area on her own , with the brown and white dog being kept in her pen , the black dog seems no trouble and just wants to relax and play , with no signs of any aggression at all .


When I then let out the brown and white dog from her area , she imeaditally goes looking for the black dog , and as long as I or my wife are not in close proximity to them both , then theres usally no problem , just some times a bit of growling.

It does look like the brown and white dog is the instigator of the attacks , but when I grabbed her neck area and pushed her to the ground
and shouted the command No, after this latest fight , she seem to be very submissive and looked a bit scared .

So It looks like our training efforts may have to firstly be focused on the brown and white dog. I now understand where we went wrong and what's in store to try and resolve this situation, but we both love our dogs and are going to try and do what ever we can for their well being .

[isanbirder]

One thing which doesn't seem to have been mentioned on this thread is this. When you take them on good, long walks, which dogs that size really need, they will become less territorial and therefore less aggressive the further they get away from their home territory. This helps them to get on terms with each other in less critical circumstances.

[bina]

isan- we all mentioned it until blue in the face.

excercise excercise excercise..... tired dogs are happy dogs...

also, not all dominant dogs are the agressors.... and its not always about domination.

there is a lot more sublte communication going on then meets the eye.

dogs take cues from us....

i would also suggest using leashes on both dogs for walks when they are together; and also separate walks and also free play time... together in a nuetral area.

leashing dogs seems to make them feel that someone else is in control and therefore it calms them down and reminds them that u are the controllers.

there is something in everyone's actions that we are all missing; if the brown dog instigates the attack while u guys are around, then maybe she is attacking (pre-empting some action from the the black dog). and i do not believe in that rolling the dog over and submissive stuff.... that is not what is going on here. they dont have problems with you. and being submissive and scared are two different things. a scared dog bites. a submissive dog submits.

we have some of that in our very small apartment with my older male and the young pup, son of my bitch. if i am at the computer , he goes for the pup. the pup has also learned to circumvent part of the salon when going to do something or he gets a thrashing. no blood but a lot of noise and yelping (he's still a pup with a pup's stress scream)... howver, there is less and less /

oth the adult male is afraid to enter the house sometimes because the bitch lurks in the entrance and attacks him upon entering. i work very hard to prevent her from doing this as he wont come in sometimes when i need him to do so. its like aversion training.

frankly, i think separating your bitches when fighting means one of you will get bitten one day. i think that working with them on plain old obedience training like sit down stay might be very good. a sitting or 'down' dog cannot jump up and attack. then i would also have them leashed, and maybe in separate areas of the yard when you both enter because its the entering the yard that is setting them off.... and when they are set off then you both must react with loud yelling and movement which just excaserbates (sp?) the situation.

when i enter after all day not being at home, i hear mine quarrelling at the door as i approach up the stairs; when i enter i send them all to their beds/places and wait a bit for the excietement to simmer down, and then liesurely i greet each one sparingly.

later on my walks with them they get more lovey dovey attention; and when theya re together they all get petted at once and any sign of a lifted snarly lip, or tensed up shoulders (cant see their hair stand up as they are long haired and fluffy) and slight throuaty rumblings, they all get thrown off the sofa and all go to their own areas.

we have about 7 chewtoys laying around to prevent squabbles and frankly there are times that i put one outside and two in for some mixing mngling....

i know its difficult but u have to see what is the 'spark' that sets them off and also what stance is each one taking: ears up tail up snarling and feet firm on ground or rounded back, ears back snarling and lip licking, for example. how does each one react when separated? do they just stalk off and shake up themselves and go on with things or do they stay curved over and whimpering etc.

from here it is difficult to see and give advice but perhps there is a good behaviorist that could come out and video the scenes (or u could) and then try to see what is the actual cause, what is the trigger... and sometimes there is no way out but to re home although that is quite rare- but we did once re home ( a rat terrier mix) since the poor guy just got beat up so much from my two that he was in a constant state of stress. that is quite rare and your situation should work out, u just have to find the key.

and no, this doesnt mean they will be agressive to children or other poeple although if it happens when others are around the best thing to do is to get everyone out of the way, quietly and then deal with the dogs.

[ThaiLife]

isan- we all mentioned it until blue in the face.

excercise excercise excercise..... tired dogs are happy dogs...

also, not all dominant dogs are the agressors.... and its not always about domination.

there is a lot more sublte communication going on then meets the eye.

dogs take cues from us....

i would also suggest using leashes on both dogs for walks when they are together; and also separate walks and also free play time... together in a nuetral area.

leashing dogs seems to make them feel that someone else is in control and therefore it calms them down and reminds them that u are the controllers.

there is something in everyone's actions that we are all missing; if the brown dog instigates the attack while u guys are around, then maybe she is attacking (pre-empting some action from the the black dog). and i do not believe in that rolling the dog over and submissive stuff.... that is not what is going on here. they dont have problems with you. and being submissive and scared are two different things. a scared dog bites. a submissive dog submits.

we have some of that in our very small apartment with my older male and the young pup, son of my bitch. if i am at the computer , he goes for the pup. the pup has also learned to circumvent part of the salon when going to do something or he gets a thrashing. no blood but a lot of noise and yelping (he's still a pup with a pup's stress scream)... howver, there is less and less /

oth the adult male is afraid to enter the house sometimes because the bitch lurks in the entrance and attacks him upon entering. i work very hard to prevent her from doing this as he wont come in sometimes when i need him to do so. its like aversion training.

frankly, i think separating your bitches when fighting means one of you will get bitten one day. i think that working with them on plain old obedience training like sit down stay might be very good. a sitting or 'down' dog cannot jump up and attack. then i would also have them leashed, and maybe in separate areas of the yard when you both enter because its the entering the yard that is setting them off.... and when they are set off then you both must react with loud yelling and movement which just excaserbates (sp?) the situation.

when i enter after all day not being at home, i hear mine quarrelling at the door as i approach up the stairs; when i enter i send them all to their beds/places and wait a bit for the excietement to simmer down, and then liesurely i greet each one sparingly.

later on my walks with them they get more lovey dovey attention; and when theya re together they all get petted at once and any sign of a lifted snarly lip, or tensed up shoulders (cant see their hair stand up as they are long haired and fluffy) and slight throuaty rumblings, they all get thrown off the sofa and all go to their own areas.

we have about 7 chewtoys laying around to prevent squabbles and frankly there are times that i put one outside and two in for some mixing mngling....

i know its difficult but u have to see what is the 'spark' that sets them off and also what stance is each one taking: ears up tail up snarling and feet firm on ground or rounded back, ears back snarling and lip licking, for example. how does each one react when separated? do they just stalk off and shake up themselves and go on with things or do they stay curved over and whimpering etc.

from here it is difficult to see and give advice but perhps there is a good behaviorist that could come out and video the scenes (or u could) and then try to see what is the actual cause, what is the trigger... and sometimes there is no way out but to re home although that is quite rare- but we did once re home ( a rat terrier mix) since the poor guy just got beat up so much from my two that he was in a constant state of stress. that is quite rare and your situation should work out, u just have to find the key.

and no, this doesnt mean they will be agressive to children or other poeple although if it happens when others are around the best thing to do is to get everyone out of the way, quietly and then deal with the dogs.

bina

Some good sound advice , we are now carrying out daily individual training and long leashed walks with both the dogs , the vets appointment to have them both spayed is next week end , I will post back as things progress , hopefully in a positive direction .

Thanks again bina and every one for the comments and advice, its really appreciated .

[FiftyTwo]

Once this starts, nothing will stop it. The fights will only get more vicious.

You have to give one dog away.

[bina]

fifty two did u not read the otehr posts? what u say is absolutely not true.

there are times when dogs have to be rehomed but usually its because the owners are unable or unwilling to put in time and effort to work with the dogs.

mostly people just dont have time, objectively speaking, becasue they are gone for most of the day and then who can spend hours at night working with two quarrelling dogs.

but what i have suggested usually works and after a while the fighting dies down.

i can tell u now that puma is in the bathroom hallway area because foofoo is guarding me and my chair while lilee sleeps on the sofa, but if puma really wants to he can walk in to the salon , he just has to go around the table and ot past my chair where foofoo is lurking in his lair. but puma deliberately (teenage puppy style) walks past with tail up and shoulders thrust forward as he is testing his place among the three. the quarrels have become less fierce and are more just noise.... but thsi will reoccur again in a few months , possibly more fiercely, and then will fizzle out again. i will have lilee spayed by then so that hormones wont run rampant or we wont get any sleep.

[FiftyTwo]

I actually view multiple pet ownership as a mental aberration on the owner's part (number of pets, proportional to the seriousness of the aberration).

To then live your life around the many problems associated with problem pets indicates total insanity (or total loneliness).

@Bina

Usually I totally agree with you, in this case I can't.

Your post seems to indicate you haven't solved any of your pet problems, you are just managing your life to minimize them.

Edited February 12, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[bina]

maybe, however i live in a very small apartment i mean really small by western standards; we both work, and teh my male, foofoo is an adoptee who came with very severe behavior problems and sufferred two separate major dog fight injuries (all dogs here are loose during the day or part of the day so there are territory issues); lilee is a dominant bitch and puma is her son so in the beginning we had 6 puppies also in the house. i kept puma to become a therapy dog in teh near future and the other two are stayers also.

little by little they work out their social kinks.definately not lonely, just have always had pets and ran our kibbutz petting zoo for so many years that i am used to more then three of anything (13 donkesy, 9 goats, maras, emus....)and if i ahd my way and time would do so again. at moment also have 9 chickens and now a batch of eggs in a hatchery in spare room.

for me its a hobby just like i think that being fanatical about football (soccer) is an abberation ; or golf, or hours and hours of jogging or bike riding (which seems totally useless to me, dogs at least interact with the rest of the family, jogging separates a person from his family)...