Meet halfway before country ends in utter failure: Thai politics

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE
Meet halfway before country ends in utter failure
ATTAYUTH BOOTSRIPOOM

BANGKOK: -- THOUGH PEOPLE are hoping there is no bloodshed when voters step out to cast their ballots on Sunday, clashes are bound to erupt judging from the rising tensions and the loss of lives in the run-up to the election.

This fear is not unfounded, given what happened during advance voting last Sunday, when a protest leader was killed and many clashes erupted between voters and People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) protesters.

In addition to the violence, though the February 2 general election is bound to go ahead, the process will be far from complete because votes will not be cast in several constituencies. This means, the country will inevitably step into a power vacuum.

Now, if both sides were truly sincere in ironing out their differences without thinking of their own self-interest, things would not have gone this far.

Postponing the February 2 election is not necessarily a solution, but could serve as a means to get both political camps to take part and push the Democrat Party to stop boycotting the polls. If both sides agree to move forward by starting over, they can resort to solving their conflicts using available legal channels.

If there is a political vacuum and a new government cannot be formed, then the authorities can either nullify the election or the Election Commission can hand the issue over to the Constitutional Court. Under law, an election can be nullified for several reasons, ranging from problems in the candidacy registration process to a failure in carrying out advance voting in many provinces.

Once the court nullifies the election, the government can issue a new royal decree to call a new one.

A precedent for this was set on April 2, 2006, when the then-ruling Thai Rak Thai Party called a snap election, but the opposition Democrat Party boycotted it and sought a Constitutional Court ruling to nullify it. The court invalidated the 2006 election on grounds that voters were not able to cast their ballots secretly due to the way the ballot boxes were arranged. So, a new royal decree for a new election was issued.

This time, a new election date can only be set if all sides agree to pull the country out of this ongoing political crisis. The caretaker government needs to be sincere to end the deadlock by accepting reform in some way. Also, the PDRC should realise that refusal to drop some of their demands will close all doors for negotiation. Plus, the Democrats need to agree to join the election.

Now the question is, are all players willing to look for a solution? Or will the government continue using elections as a rubber stamp to endorse their return to power, while the PDRC continues making impractical demands, with the Democrats using this as a political tool.

If the two sides do not agree to meet halfway, then the February 2 elections will only go down in history as one that led the country toward total failure.


-- The Nation 2014-01-30

[millwall_fan]

This is fair comment. The government has of course, already offered to cancel the election as long as the Democrats agree to participate in the re-scheduled one and the PDRC agree not to disrupt it. The government has in fact, offered a number of compromises, none of which have been accepted by the PDRC.

[wedders]

Compromise and consensus? Thais seem to be further away from that today than they have ever been. Increasingly entrenched views and hostility, without the same 'unifying force' that once brought all Thais together.

Sadly I think these divisions are set to worsen before they improve.

[Fryslan boppe]

"Now, if both sides were truly sincere in ironing out their differences..."

Impossible...To start with let's be clear, there are not two sides of equal proportions...To talk of two sides in the same breath does not recognize that one side is a clear electoral minority, and any negotiation should factor that into the equation. Besides, how does one 'iron out differences' with a group who will accept nothing short of a coup....Impossible.

Postponing the February 2 election is not necessarily a solution...... they can resort to solving their conflicts using available legal channels.

No they cannot...Agree or not, the fact remains that the electoral majority do not accept their is a 'legal channel" open to them. There is very recent evidence supporting this perspective. The courts went slow and soft on yellow shirts when they broke the law but locked up red shirts as fast as they could. This was the double standards that UDD/RS's/PTP are up against..

They are at it again and I quote from "The Nation"

The Criminal Court refused to approve a Department of Special Investigation (DSI) request yesterday for arrest warrants for People's Democratic Reform Committee secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban and 15 other protest leaders for violating the emergency decree.

The court said DSI director general Tarit Pengdith and a police investigator had failed to give enough evidence to back their case.

The DSI request cited 16 PDRC leaders suspected of actions that violated the emergency decree.

This language is a replica of the legal nonsense they sprouted when PAD leaders also broke the law with gay abandon

"If there is a political vacuum and a new government cannot be formed...."

Only an election can fill this supposed 'political vacuum' if such a thing occurs....Anything short of that would be a "political black hole"...tampering with this election date would allow coup-mongers to fill any subsequent 'political vacuum'...Can you imagine what would happen to Electoral democracy if that so-called 'vacuum' was given over to Suthep and his minions...They would fill it and occupy it quickly, electoral majority be dammed.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Fryslan boppe

[Siripon]

Actually the Democrats must participate in the next election, presuming this one happens, as the penalty for boycotting 2 elections in a row is dissolution.

If the election is nullified, then Pheua Thai must agree to join talks including all players about reform before the next election is held.

Their hands are cetainly tied as a caretaker government- they can't even sack the heads of the military. no wonder they want the election so badly!

[rogerdee123]

Seriously investigating corruption ... naming and shaming and throwing the book at ALL of the guilty ones past and present, no matter what political group, and making them serve their time and punishment and barring them from politics for life.

Then an election will probably be successful.

Edited January 30, 2014 by rogerdee123

[SaamBaht]

Some good comments here. It appears the government has been the only group in this impasse to offer any concessions, and as others have already pointed out, is an elected government. Suthep and his elite backers hold all the cards because the military would never touch them, nor will the courts. If the government sends in the police, the Thais system will hold them liable for any damage, death, or carnage.

Suthep realizes it's not how many people you know but who those few people are.

[noitom]

The Thai press has consistently engendered animosity and acrimony. Instead of intellectually rationalizing the hypocrisy of Suthep's protest conditions and defiant attitude to compromise and negotiation, the Thai press has fed into the frenzy of conflict. Now they are putting the elected government by a landslide on the same plane as a protest group wanting to install a hand picked "people's council" and proliferate the corrupted Thai system while not extending equal voting rights to all Thai citizens. The Thai press is the real shame here.

[rogerdee123]

Some good comments here. It appears the government has been the only group in this impasse to offer any concessions, and as others have already pointed out, is an elected government. Suthep and his elite backers hold all the cards because the military would never touch them, nor will the courts. If the government sends in the police, the Thais system will hold them liable for any damage, death, or carnage.

Suthep realizes it's not how many people you know but who those few people are.

When the corrupt ones are rooted out of the Govt and the criminal in Dubai either returns to serve his time or gets out of politics .... this Govt can be taken seriously.

[ramrod711]

"Reform" is easy, Shinawatras agree to step aside, election goes ahead, whatever version of PTP emerges wins the election. That would mean that Thaksin would have to admit defeat, and apparently he can't spell it. But it isn't going to happen because Thaksin hasn't finished reaping his vengeance on "the country he loves".

[Yunla]

Now, if both sides were truly sincere in ironing out their differences without thinking of their own self-interest, things would not have gone this far.

If you love your nation and its sacred sovereign modules, the highly eminent person himself, and so forth, you would do anything to protect and defend those things. So why would you not sit down and talk as adults, negotiate, debate. Street-action is just avoiding the actual core aspect of democracy which is 'talking' and using dialogue to resolve differences, find a near-nexus point, and form consensus around that. If you don't want to talk to achieve consensus, you would rather send your multicoloured followers out into the meatgrinder time and again, then you are not a patriot, you are not democratic, and you are not acting in the best interests of the nation you claim to love. I was reading in the other thread "we will occupy for 6 months, it will be glorious, history making" etc. [paraphrased] with exclamation marks to boot. But infact if you love you nation, you don't want to see it grind to halt for a year, tensions rising, businesses going bust, or to see young citizens dying in pointless street battles. If you love your nation you will talk to anybody, and listen to their views. That is democracy.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Yunla

[wedders]

"Reform" is easy, Shinawatras agree to step aside, election goes ahead, whatever version of PTP emerges wins the election. That would mean that Thaksin would have to admit defeat, and apparently he can't spell it. But it isn't going to happen because Thaksin hasn't finished reaping his vengeance on "the country he loves".

But 80.6% of those polled by the Bangkok Post last weekend said they wanted the elections to go ahead as planned, prior to reforms. So the wishes of 4/5ths of the electorate should be ignored?

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Crushdepth]

This is fair comment. The government has of course, already offered to cancel the election as long as the Democrats agree to participate in the re-scheduled one and the PDRC agree not to disrupt it. The government has in fact, offered a number of compromises, none of which have been accepted by the PDRC.

They offered to delay the election not to cancel it, which was pointless since none of the protesters demands were met (ie. bugger off Shincorporated).

[Spalpeen]

I hate all this mealy mouthed 'meet half way', 'one side is as bad as the other' talk. There's no half way on democracy, in the same way that you can't be half pregnant. You either have an election or you don't. You either respect the will of the majority or you don't.

It's already clear what will happen after the election. The tiny but wealthy anti democratic minority will use their corrupt control of the courts and the election commission to try to invalidate the election. They don't respect the will of the majority and will leave Thailand without a government before they accept democracy. When that happens, the occupation of Bangkok that follows will show up Sutheps efforts for the pathetic little sideshow that they were.

[bangkokheat]

bangkok is sinking and taking the rest of thailand with it

[englishoak]

bangkok is sinking and taking the rest of thailand with it

Yes but itll sink last as thats where the money is so in theirs minds they will win, wont be much left but hey ho thats not a concern as long as they WIN ... just what i would ask when there is nothing left.

Reminds me of the idea that US general had for an atomic war ... blow the world up np but we have more nukes so we win

[whybother]

I hate all this mealy mouthed 'meet half way', 'one side is as bad as the other' talk. There's no half way on democracy, in the same way that you can't be half pregnant. You either have an election or you don't. You either respect the will of the majority or you don't.

It's already clear what will happen after the election. The tiny but wealthy anti democratic minority will use their corrupt control of the courts and the election commission to try to invalidate the election. They don't respect the will of the majority and will leave Thailand without a government before they accept democracy. When that happens, the occupation of Bangkok that follows will show up Sutheps efforts for the pathetic little sideshow that they were.

Democracy isn't just elections. If it was, everyone would be praising Zimbabwe.

[Emptyset]

This is fair comment. The government has of course, already offered to cancel the election as long as the Democrats agree to participate in the re-scheduled one and the PDRC agree not to disrupt it. The government has in fact, offered a number of compromises, none of which have been accepted by the PDRC.

They offered to delay the election not to cancel it, which was pointless since none of the protesters demands were met (ie. bugger off Shincorporated).

They don't have "demands" do they? They only have one demand, which is the government resign and cede power to an unelected council.

I posted this in another thread, but seems more appropriate to post it here: "Taking turns hitting at a Yingluck punching bag might provide some instant gratification for Bangkok’s frustrated middle classes, but these are the moves of people who are in deep denial about political realities: Thailand’s urbanized villagers are the country’s future, and they are not about to vanish. Thaksin is a deeply troubling figure, but so are some of the leaders of the anti-Thaksin movement. Rather than calling for vengeance and retribution, the protestors need to seek a compromise before violence claims more lives and erupts into open clashes on Bangkok’s streets."

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/features/letters-from/thai-takedown

[Emptyset]

I hate all this mealy mouthed 'meet half way', 'one side is as bad as the other' talk. There's no half way on democracy, in the same way that you can't be half pregnant. You either have an election or you don't. You either respect the will of the majority or you don't.

It's already clear what will happen after the election. The tiny but wealthy anti democratic minority will use their corrupt control of the courts and the election commission to try to invalidate the election. They don't respect the will of the majority and will leave Thailand without a government before they accept democracy. When that happens, the occupation of Bangkok that follows will show up Sutheps efforts for the pathetic little sideshow that they were.

Democracy isn't just elections. If it was, everyone would be praising Zimbabwe.

True. Yet elections are always what democracy in its normative form, i.e. idealized liberal democracy, is built on. You can't have a democracy that doesn't have some form of elections. Universal enfranchisement is generally taken to be the first step, the point of departure, for a transition to a democratic form of government. You can, though, in theory at least, have a liberal form of government that isn't democratic. Because democracy doesn't necessarily = liberalism. Sadly people often vote for autocratic leaders and for laws that affect minority rights.

Yet taking away the majority's right to vote obviously doesn't necessarily protect minority rights. Look at Egypt. Morsi was authoritarian and led an elected government of religious reactionaries. Did removing him equate to greater tolerance and respect for human rights? Actually, the opposite. The new government just ended up oppressing a larger group of people than the old government had, and the level of brutality increased significantly too.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Emptyset

[tonyPhuket]

The root of the problem is probably caused by the long evolution of the Thai politic system. If both sides are unable to reach the agreements, then it must be due to that system failure. Honestly, I regret very much that most Thai people will face their most tough decision this Sunday. I know one thing for sure, they want peace, enjoying Thai food, supporting one another but not by means of through corruption. Hope the top-level people will respect that and not overlook people's essential basic living routines. Bless them.

[DocN]

...tooooooooooooooooooooooooooo late!

[expat888]

The root of the problem is probably caused by the long evolution of the Thai politic system. If both sides are unable to reach the agreements, then it must be due to that system failure. Honestly, I regret very much that most Thai people will face their most tough decision this Sunday. I know one thing for sure, they want peace, enjoying Thai food, supporting one another but not by means of through corruption. Hope the top-level people will respect that and not overlook people's essential basic living routines. Bless them.

Are you kidding? I think you speak for yourself and not the Thais. Thais are completely comfortable with corruption. As far as they are concerned it is part of Thai culture.

[SaamBaht]

Some good comments here. It appears the government has been the only group in this impasse to offer any concessions, and as others have already pointed out, is an elected government. Suthep and his elite backers hold all the cards because the military would never touch them, nor will the courts. If the government sends in the police, the Thais system will hold them liable for any damage, death, or carnage.

Suthep realizes it's not how many people you know but who those few people are.

When the corrupt ones are rooted out of the Govt and the criminal in Dubai either returns to serve his time or gets out of politics .... this Govt can be taken seriously.

When you say corrupt ones you mean EVERYBODY, right, including that jackass Suthep.

[Spalpeen]

I hate all this mealy mouthed 'meet half way', 'one side is as bad as the other' talk. There's no half way on democracy, in the same way that you can't be half pregnant. You either have an election or you don't. You either respect the will of the majority or you don't.

It's already clear what will happen after the election. The tiny but wealthy anti democratic minority will use their corrupt control of the courts and the election commission to try to invalidate the election. They don't respect the will of the majority and will leave Thailand without a government before they accept democracy. When that happens, the occupation of Bangkok that follows will show up Sutheps efforts for the pathetic little sideshow that they were.

Democracy isn't just elections.

Democracy isn't just about preventing people from voting.

[Hawkman]

Some good comments here. It appears the government has been the only group in this impasse to offer any concessions, and as others have already pointed out, is an elected government. Suthep and his elite backers hold all the cards because the military would never touch them, nor will the courts. If the government sends in the police, the Thais system will hold them liable for any damage, death, or carnage.

Suthep realizes it's not how many people you know but who those few people are.

When the corrupt ones are rooted out of the Govt and the criminal in Dubai either returns to serve his time or gets out of politics .... this Govt can be taken seriously.

When you say corrupt ones you mean EVERYBODY, right, including that jackass Suthep.

He is corrupt yes, most probably. Not on the scale as PTP (go speak to business owners who have had dealings with both and see which side always insists on a "cut"), but corrupt yes I expect.

Not just Suthep or PTP, the Governors, the police - it's deep rooted.

The problem here is PTP just have gone a little too far the last couple of years, some of the stories you hear, where they have completely shafted their own red shirt support for their own greed, is sickening. Anyone notice that the Amnesty Bill also covered from 2011 to now? Hmmm, what do they want to hide, I wonder.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Hawkman

[WhizBang]

Meet halfway before country ends in utter failure

Too LATE

Edited January 30, 2014 by WhizBang

[Crushdepth]

I hate all this mealy mouthed 'meet half way', 'one side is as bad as the other' talk. There's no half way on democracy, in the same way that you can't be half pregnant. You either have an election or you don't. You either respect the will of the majority or you don't.

It's already clear what will happen after the election. The tiny but wealthy anti democratic minority will use their corrupt control of the courts and the election commission to try to invalidate the election. They don't respect the will of the majority and will leave Thailand without a government before they accept democracy. When that happens, the occupation of Bangkok that follows will show up Sutheps efforts for the pathetic little sideshow that they were.

You want one side to 'follow the rules' while the other flagrantly breaks them? Some news for you - people don't work like that. This protest is a consequence of the wholesale in-your-face corruption of the government.

No corruption, no protest, no problem.

[pipkins]

bangkok is sinking and taking the rest of thailand with it

Yes but itll sink last as thats where the money is so in theirs minds they will win, wont be much left but hey ho thats not a concern as long as they WIN ... just what i would ask when there is nothing left.

Reminds me of the idea that US general had for an atomic war ... blow the world up np but we have more nukes so we win

The Money

People in the North have had centuries of living off nothing and can do it much better than Bangkok Business people protesting in their coffee break. Suthep timed the march to arrive about lunch time as there would be nobody to meet it at any other time. Look at it now, streets deserted and once again, more staff and bodyguards and organisers than protesters..

They will see a return to extreme poverty if the Elites get back in, as they will need all the money of Thailand to replenish their coffers after staging this Judical coup and faux uprising

Meet half way, you are either a democracy or a fascist dictatorship serving Elite ends. No midde ground there however you try to intellectualise it.

Why would an elected Gov with a massive majority negotiate away democracy to these Conspirators? She has given far too much ground already

[gerrythepoet]

If one knew who Suthep's backers are then name them for they are the ones who are pushing Thailand into being a failed state

[fab4]

This is fair comment. The government has of course, already offered to cancel the election as long as the Democrats agree to participate in the re-scheduled one and the PDRC agree not to disrupt it. The government has in fact, offered a number of compromises, none of which have been accepted by the PDRC.

They offered to delay the election not to cancel it, which was pointless since none of the protesters demands were met (ie. bugger off Shincorporated).

Well that's curious, you seem to be at odds with your chosen one

Protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban has reaffirmed that the anti-government People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) did not reject the election, saying it should be postponed to open the way for political reform which could take at least a year or a year and a half to finish.

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/content/thai-protest-leader-says-elections-should-be-delayed-until-political-reforms-are-complete