Can you recognise written sarcasm?

[CharlieH]

Very difficult at times to get the right message or context across without "tone" which is usually the easiest way to understand correctly.

With just the written words and no emotions, facial expressions or tone of voice, its really how its perceived by the reader not necessarily the same as it was intended by the author.

The nearest they currently have, which not all people use, is the emoticons for displaying such emotion etc to help whatever is being said to be understood correctly as it was intended.

Sarcasm in my opinion, unless connected to "tone" is in most cases totally misunderstood.

[simon43]

.It is like a apple and pear.

cor blimey guv - I don't twig

??? stair ???

That sarcasm symbol does not exist on your keyboard, nor in the smiley library. It can be installed on your computer for the sum of $1.99, according to the designer of the 'Sarcmark'.

I just cut and pasted.

[Soutpeel]

That's fine, Simon.

However, I find your stereotyping of Americans not being familiar with sarcasm obnoxious and ill informed.

It is true many Americans won't get British humor but many Brits won't get American humor either.

There are issues with the written word vs. spoken language. Spoken language often provides more clues. It takes more skill to be sarcastic (and perceived as such) in writing.

Jing,

In Simons defence, I lived and worked in the US for a couple of years and the average US citizen doesn't get sarcasm as a form of humour, US humour is a lot more direct

Call me obnoxious if you will, but this is my direct experience in both written and spoken forms of sarcasm so not I'll informed

[thailiketoo]

Must admit I speak cockney London English unless l am in the presence of Thai folk who are learning/speaking English, then l try and go down the Oxford route. They seem to get on well with that........

So how am I supposed to know if the person who wrote, ""Pleeese!! Call it a Cockney accent, but please do not call it a British accent. I speak with a British accent, as does HM Queen Elizabeth,as did Lord Mountbatten... That is a British accent - everything else is a regional English (and often unintelligable) accent " was being sarcastic or stupid?

[simon43]

Was the person being sarcastic or did he just not know? And if he was being sarcastic how would I know?

Indeed, I was being sarcastic. But sometimes sarcasm can be so obscured that it is almost impossible to identify a remark as sarcasm without greater study of the complete conversation or intimate knowledge of the poster.

Even I sometimes don't know if I'm being sarcastic or not...

[Berkshire]

Yes, pretty obvious most of the time. What's annoying is when someone makes an offensive or clearly bigoted remark and claims it to be sarcasm.

I did get a kick out of the Sex Problem in Thailand thread, where someone joked that it's everywhere, sort of like kangaroos in Sydney. Someone responded like the guy was serious. Rich.

[jkinbkk]

[transam]

Must admit I speak cockney London English unless l am in the presence of Thai folk who are learning/speaking English, then l try and go down the Oxford route. They seem to get on well with that........

So how am I supposed to know if the person who wrote, ""Pleeese!! Call it a Cockney accent, but please do not call it a British accent. I speak with a British accent, as does HM Queen Elizabeth,as did Lord Mountbatten... That is a British accent - everything else is a regional English (and often unintelligable) accent " was being sarcastic or stupid?

Once again l say there is no British accent. Go to different parts of LOS and accents are different. The perfect accent in the UK is Oxford. Army officers from all over the UK try/would like to speak Oxford.

Edited January 30, 2014 by transam

[simon43]

So how am I supposed to know if the person who wrote, ""Pleeese!! Call it a Cockney accent, but please do not call it a British accent. I speak with a British accent, as does HM Queen Elizabeth,as did Lord Mountbatten... That is a British accent - everything else is a regional English (and often unintelligable) accent " was being sarcastic or stupid?

Consider the overall context. If ThaiVisa were a lowbrow, gutter-trash forum, populated by lowlife lounge lizards, then you could assume with high confidence that the poster is plain stupid.

But since this forum is populated by highly-educated members, typically married to white-skinned, hi-so Thai-Chinese ladies who can string even more letters after their name than their husband, you can safely assume that the poster is being sarcastic.

Edited January 30, 2014 by simon43

[wym]

Yes, pretty obvious most of the time. What's annoying is when someone makes an offensive or clearly bigoted remark and claims it to be sarcasm.

I did get a kick out of the Sex Problem in Thailand thread, where someone joked that it's everywhere, sort of like kangaroos in Sydney. Someone responded like the guy was serious. Rich.

No their sarcasm just went over Your head 8-)

[rijb]

Your proposed 'symbol' is almost hypnotic. It makes me sleepy, just like most of your posts.

“Incidentally, forgive a detour here, but if there is one misapprehension about Americans that annoys me more than any other, it is the lofty claim, usually made by the most dim-witted and wit-free Britons, that America is an – ho-ho – “irony free zone”. Let it be established here, this day, that no one, on pain of being designated fifty types of watery <deleted>, ever dare repeat that feeble, ignorant, self-satisfied canard ever ever again. Americans are no more irony illiterate than Britons or anyone else and the repeated assertion (and it is no more than an assertion not a demonstrable provable fact) is no more than a pathetic symbol of a certain kind of Briton’s flabby need to convince themselves of their sophisticated superiority over the average American. Now, don’t feel bad about the fact that you, dear listener/reader have, at some point in the past been guilty of repeating and transmitting this feeble myth, we all have. It’s lazy, easy and gives us a warm glow. My war on the lie begins now, and is not retrospective, so you need not feel ashamed. Only promise never to repeat it. Actually, even if you think it’s true, have the grace to recognise that such a clunking, tedious, oft-repeated cliché is so dull and well-worn that it almost doesn’t matter whether it’s true or not, it’s just plain tedious and only bar-stool bores and dull-witted gibbons would ever think it worth trotting out. Besides, it is ugly, graceless and rude.”

Stephen Fry

[Berkshire]

Yes, pretty obvious most of the time. What's annoying is when someone makes an offensive or clearly bigoted remark and claims it to be sarcasm.

I did get a kick out of the Sex Problem in Thailand thread, where someone joked that it's everywhere, sort of like kangaroos in Sydney. Someone responded like the guy was serious. Rich.

No their sarcasm just went over Your head 8-)

You don't even know which comment I'm referring to, yet you feel a need to respond. Take a load off, wym, you don't have to be a smarta*s 24 hrs a day.

[bkkjames]

To answer the OP's question;

"I can recognize it, but it's doesn't recognize me."

[Old Croc]

In nearly 10,000 posts over 8 1/2 years I've yet to make a serious post on Thai visa,

Yet nobody seems to get the humorous side of my comments.

Many of my posts disappear on the grounds that they are inflammatory when all I'm trying to do is lighten up a few people's lives.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Old Croc

[simon43]

It makes me sleepy, just like most of your posts.

Hey, you forgot to add the sarcasm smiley, (I think)

[wym]

Yes, pretty obvious most of the time. What's annoying is when someone makes an offensive or clearly bigoted remark and claims it to be sarcasm.

I did get a kick out of the Sex Problem in Thailand thread, where someone joked that it's everywhere, sort of like kangaroos in Sydney. Someone responded like the guy was serious. Rich.

No their sarcasm just went over Your head 8-)

You don't even know which comment I'm referring to, yet you feel a need to respond. Take a load off, wym, you don't have to be a smarta*s 24 hrs a day.

Hey I mus b' gettin da hang of dis sarcasm ting, no'bad fur a yank eh?

[thailiketoo]

Must admit I speak cockney London English unless l am in the presence of Thai folk who are learning/speaking English, then l try and go down the Oxford route. They seem to get on well with that........

So how am I supposed to know if the person who wrote, ""Pleeese!! Call it a Cockney accent, but please do not call it a British accent. I speak with a British accent, as does HM Queen Elizabeth,as did Lord Mountbatten... That is a British accent - everything else is a regional English (and often unintelligable) accent " was being sarcastic or stupid?

Once again l say there is no British accent. Go to different parts of LOS and accents are different. The perfect accent in the UK is Oxford. Army officers from all over the UK try/would like to speak Oxford.

So I ask a question, "So how am I supposed to know if the person who wrote,.....was being sarcastic or stupid?"

And you answer, "Once again l say there is no British accent. Go to different parts of LOS and accents are different. The perfect accent in the UK is Oxford. Army officers from all over the UK try/would like to speak Oxford."

Your answer has nothing to do with my question. Is that being sarcastic or obtuse or don't you really understand my question?

[Sigurris]

Oscar Wilde may have said that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. But there is an addendum to that. The full quote is:

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit but the highest form of intelligence.

Back of the net!

Edited January 30, 2014 by Sigurris

[chiang mai]

Ah yes, sarcasm, "the lowest form of wit" - or then there's sarchasm, the gulf between those who get it and those who don't.

[Jingthing]

Not all sarcasm is created equal. A writer might think he is being sarcastic but actually just being idiotic.

[thailiketoo]

Oscar Wilde may have said that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. But there is an addendum to that. The full quote is:

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit but the highest form of intelligence.

Back of the net!

Oscar Wilde didn't say that.

[chiang mai]

Not all sarcasm is created equal. A writer might think he is being sarcastic but actually just being idiotic.

In which case it wasn't sarcasm, it was idiocy.

[transam]

Must admit I speak cockney London English unless l am in the presence of Thai folk who are learning/speaking English, then l try and go down the Oxford route. They seem to get on well with that........

So how am I supposed to know if the person who wrote, ""Pleeese!! Call it a Cockney accent, but please do not call it a British accent. I speak with a British accent, as does HM Queen Elizabeth,as did Lord Mountbatten... That is a British accent - everything else is a regional English (and often unintelligable) accent " was being sarcastic or stupid?

Once again l say there is no British accent. Go to different parts of LOS and accents are different. The perfect accent in the UK is Oxford. Army officers from all over the UK try/would like to speak Oxford.

So I ask a question, "So how am I supposed to know if the person who wrote,.....was being sarcastic or stupid?"

And you answer, "Once again l say there is no British accent. Go to different parts of LOS and accents are different. The perfect accent in the UK is Oxford. Army officers from all over the UK try/would like to speak Oxford."

Your answer has nothing to do with my question. Is that being sarcastic or obtuse or don't you really understand my question?

There is no accent in the written word. My replies are dealing with accent as some say there is a British accent, which there is not.

[Tywais]

Sometimes it is just better to be obvious.

[CharlieH]

"Sarcasm is actually hostility disguised as humor. Despite smiling outwardly, most people who receive sarcastic comments feel put down and usually think the sarcastic person is a jerk. Indeed, its not surprising that the origin of the word sarcasm derives from the Greek word sarkazein which literally means to tear or strip the flesh off. Hence, its no wonder that sarcasm is often preceded by the word cutting and that it hurts."

" Whats more, since actions strongly determine thoughts and feelings, when a person consistently acts sarcastically it usually only heightens his or her underlying hostility and insecurity. After all, when you come right down to it, sarcasm is a subtle form of bullying and most bullies are angry, insecure, cowards. Alternatively, when a person stops voicing negative comments, especially sarcastic and critical ones, he or she soon starts to feel happier and more self-confident. Also, the other people in his or her life benefit even faster because they no longer have to hear the emotionally hurtful language of sarcasm.

So, tone down the sarcasm and work on clever wit instead which is usually devoid of hostility and thus more appreciated by those youre communicating with. In essence, sarcasm is easy (as is most anger, criticism and meanness) while true, harmless wit takes talent.

Also, don't hestate to tell others that you don't appreciate their sarcastic comments because it's just thinly veiled hostility and unacceptable bullying."

The Lazarous Institute.

[ABCer]

There are many different shades of humor.

Sarcasm is only one of them.

One can be mildly humorous, sarcastic, acidic, ironic and so on.

Accordingly, there are different types of jokes resulting in a smile, grin, smirk, laughter, ridicule, roar, rage and so on.

If the humor is not recognized it may be because

- the source is dumb, dull, out of context, too thin, too thick and so on;

- the recipient is dumb, dull, out of context, too thin, too thick and so on;

- any other reason.

In any case, if one has to indicate the humorous aspect of what was written or said - it is a failed communication.

People must get it. If they don't - go back to drawing board.

If it happens too often - change the level. Raise or lower the plank.

One may be too much above or below one's audience. Cheers!

P.S. I was born in the World Capital of Humor. Anybody can name the city?

[thailiketoo]

So how am I supposed to know if the person who wrote, ""Pleeese!! Call it a Cockney accent, but please do not call it a British accent. I speak with a British accent, as does HM Queen Elizabeth,as did Lord Mountbatten... That is a British accent - everything else is a regional English (and often unintelligable) accent " was being sarcastic or stupid?

Once again l say there is no British accent. Go to different parts of LOS and accents are different. The perfect accent in the UK is Oxford. Army officers from all over the UK try/would like to speak Oxford.

So I ask a question, "So how am I supposed to know if the person who wrote,.....was being sarcastic or stupid?"

And you answer, "Once again l say there is no British accent. Go to different parts of LOS and accents are different. The perfect accent in the UK is Oxford. Army officers from all over the UK try/would like to speak Oxford."

Your answer has nothing to do with my question. Is that being sarcastic or obtuse or don't you really understand my question?

There is no accent in the written word. My replies are dealing with accent as some say there is a British accent, which there is not.

I understand that but that was not the question I was asking. It has nothing to do with the question I was asking. Am I not worthy of an answer?

[Clutch]

There are many different shades of humor.

Sarcasm is only one of them.

One can be mildly humorous, sarcastic, acidic, ironic and so on.

Accordingly, there are different types of jokes resulting in a smile, grin, smirk, laughter, ridicule, roar, rage and so on.

If the humor is not recognized it may be because

- the source is dumb, dull, out of context, too thin, too thick and so on;

- the recipient is dumb, dull, out of context, too thin, too thick and so on;

- any other reason.

In any case, if one has to indicate the humorous aspect of what was written or said - it is a failed communication.

People must get it. If they don't - go back to drawing board.

If it happens too often - change the level. Raise or lower the plank.

One may be too much above or below one's audience. Cheers!

P.S. I was born in the World Capital of Humor. Anybody can name the city?

Yeah, North Korea!

[chiang mai]

Gabrovo.

[ABCer]

Where is Gabrovo?

Why N. Korea? Never tried dog meat. Or do you want to feed me to the dogs? This is even lower than sarcasm...