Rice-pledging scheme: No loans to pay for rice

[wellwell]

Most farmers cant read or dont buy newspapers which is a bonus to the PTP.

They might just get away with it.

Ive withdrawn all my money from Thai banks. First time ive ever done this.

They may not read newspapers, but the leaders of the rice farming association do, and so do many village people. Considering it is a hot topic for owed farmers, I would assume that it is entirely likely that they are monitoring this to the hilt.

The government is laying the blame with everyone barring themselves for this mess, and they have the audacity to push the rice scheme as their number one policy for this election. What a complete and utter display of sub-intellect.

Last night I was out at a big family gathering for the Chinese New Year, and everyone was talking about the elections etc.... No money being offered for votes this year in our area, and that was a swing area of the past that went to PTP last time around. I could not find a single voter who is voting PTP and even if they come up with cash on the day, they said they will take the money and register a 'no vote'.

PTP have dropped the ball right through their rule, and continue to do so.

A bunch of soi dogs would have produced a better term of government than this bunch of muppets.

If the farmers all band together and vote against PTP, that could be well over 3 million votes if 1.4 million farmers have been stung, then take into consideration the other voters in each farmer family, and add to that the 11.5 million voters who voted for the Dems... It don't look good for Thaksin, and the voters won't forget this in a hurry either.

If the Dems had run in the elections, I would imagine they would have held their 11.5 million votes and it would have only taken a messily 2.2 million (15%) votes to swing from the PTP to the Dems, and that would be enough for a marginal victory. I can see the PTP losing a load more than 15% of their vote this weekend.

But the Dems preferred to do the honourable thing and stick to their 'reform before election' stance, and sit back and watch this government crumble into the sand under their own steam.

Well done Dems.

[farang000999]

Rice farmers joining protest makes little sense since if the PDRC wins they will end the rice scheme anyways.

[slapout]

Just a thought......Why not at least give them back their rice?

The monies for the 2011/2012 rice program is gone, with virtually nothing being returned on the 700 billion baht investment. The rice stockpile (what little is left) is not worth sacking it up to sale, for livestock feed.

The few rice sales make over the last 4 months , were reported to be from the 2013 harvest program. Commerce is reporting only 10 million tons in storage for the cumulative rice program, so you find the numerous faults in the system.

For the Finance or Commerce Ministy to even suspose they could borrow money on "their terms' for a record corrupt scam, which is being promoted by people I would not trust to carry out their own garbage, much less someone elses, shows the desdain this government holds the Thai people/country in.

[klauskunkel]

just look under the mattresses of Government Ministers and Peua Thai MPs, plenty of money there!

[Crushdepth]

Of course they said no. Banks can't lend to schemes mired in industrial-scale corruption. How could they?

[northernjohn]

Most farmers cant read or dont buy newspapers which is a bonus to the PTP.

They might just get away with it.

Ive withdrawn all my money from Thai banks. First time ive ever done this.

Farmers don't need newspapers or the internet to know just what a mess this government has made of the rice scam. They have a network of co-operatives, mobile phones, they talk to each other. All those nice shiny Isuzu and Vigos will have to be paid for and when there's no cash, we all know what happens. And when that happens, farmers get mad.

Farmers may be portrayed sometimes as simple folk, but in fact they are smarter than this lot ruining the country.

If they are so smart why did they elect them?

[puck2]

In a few words

"Spirits that I've cited

My commands ignore"

Already more than 200 years ago J.W.v. Goethe had a vision of Yingluck's / Thaksin's rice-pledging-scheme when he wrote this in "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" (Die Geister, die ich rief, die werd' ich jetzt nicht los; Zauberlehrling)

Edited January 31, 2014 by puck2

[GentlemanJim]

It is about time that everyThai journalist out there colluded with each other so that at every single press conference from now on with any Minister, each and every journalist asks exactly the same question until an answer is given....."Where is the Money" !!!!

[tomyummer]

Rice farmers joining protest makes little sense since if the PDRC wins they will end the rice scheme anyways.

Sadly true. The rice be thrown away, new farmers will spring up and the money sucked into the pockets of the unjust will be forgotten. All with no trace. Edited January 31, 2014 by tomyummer

[northernjohn]

Pheu Thai may pay the price at the ballot box for failure to pay farmers

Yet sadly their main rivals chose to boycott the election despite knowing they had a chance of winning. (Abhisit has been heard in every interview claiming they led at the polls.)

The reasons they did this are obvious and point to a complete rejection of democracy and the accountability that goes with it.

PT will win the election which is breath taking considering how much popular opinion is now against them. Shame on you "Democrats" - an oxymoron if ever I heard one, on a par with the "Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea"

Abhisit's stand on the election is very clear: At this moment it will not solve any problems regardless who wins, therefor the Democrats prefer not to join without having reform!

To have joined in the election would have been to condone the present system.

It took a lot of integrity for them to say no we want a better Thailand. A system that can be controlled by one man (who is convicted criminal living outside the country) is wrong and needs changing.

[northernjohn]

The Thai farming community is getting shafted by a highly corrupted political entity who they themselves empowered owing to their lack of intellect and manipulated partisan mentality. To a great extent they have brought this fiasco down on their own heads and they have accepted this governments ongoing hollow promises of your checks in the post.. Nobody indeed deserves to be in this position however, you get what you vote for and they voted to be cannon fodder.

What you say is true. On the other hand have they been given a fair chance to access the situation. With the education level being what it is and has been maintained by all the previous governments they have not really been given a chance.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

A couple of points worth noting here:

1. If the protests hadn't ultimately forced YL to dissolve Parliament and call for new elections, then the current government would instead be operating in the normal mode, and would have continued trying to finance the rice scam through various government funding methods -- something the current "caretaker" government absent a Parliament has been unable to do.

So really, it's the current protests, along with some help from Electrion Commission rulings, that effectively have stopped the current PT government from continuing to put the country even deeper in debt through this massive vote buying scheme, all the while ruining Thai rice's presence in international markets, but enriching themseles and their friends greatly.

2. From the farmers' end of things, I'm not sure what this all is likely to be from a political perspective. Right now, not getting paid, they're pissed -- and rightly so -- and perhaps will punish the PT to some extent in whatever elections are held. But if the rice money had been paid, already or in the near future somehow, I suspect alot of the farmers' grievances with the current government and PT would have melted away.

In the future, if the PT folks get back into power with a new election and have control of Parliament again, I suspect they'll be doing their best to put the rice gravy train back on track for the economic benefit of all those who profit from it.

[ratcatcher]

Most farmers cant read or dont buy newspapers which is a bonus to the PTP.

They might just get away with it.

Ive withdrawn all my money from Thai banks. First time ive ever done this.

Farmers don't need newspapers or the internet to know just what a mess this government has made of the rice scam. They have a network of co-operatives, mobile phones, they talk to each other. All those nice shiny Isuzu and Vigos will have to be paid for and when there's no cash, we all know what happens. And when that happens, farmers get mad.

Farmers may be portrayed sometimes as simple folk, but in fact they are smarter than this lot ruining the country.

If they are so smart why did they elect them?

On that point I cannot argue with you. Touche.

[tingtongteesood]

Pheu Thai may pay the price at the ballot box for failure to pay farmers

Yet sadly their main rivals chose to boycott the election despite knowing they had a chance of winning. (Abhisit has been heard in every interview claiming they led at the polls.)

The reasons they did this are obvious and point to a complete rejection of democracy and the accountability that goes with it.

PT will win the election which is breath taking considering how much popular opinion is now against them. Shame on you "Democrats" - an oxymoron if ever I heard one, on a par with the "Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea"

However calling PT or any of their members, cronies or their unelected fugitive puppet master 'democratic' is the ultimate oxymoron, even above 'military intelligence' !

[dominique355]

Just a thought......Why not at least give them back their rice?

Oh they can take it back and sell it "at market price", that's the basic idea of the rice pledging.

You may not remember but the rice pledging scheme is actually quite old. Only, before Thaksin and Yingluck got greedy, the government offered the farmers 80% of the market price and paid early, kind of financing the crop. Most farmers pledged at 80% but returned the money after harvest and sold the rice at market price.

No losses for the governement, only operating cost, and Thailand was still No. 1 in rice exports and the farmers got their money.

[tingtongteesood]

It is hard to feel sympathy for the fools who voted for PT based purely on ridiculous populist policies, then get upset when they fail to deliver. Also if they had shown a hint of fiscal responsibility and saved some of that extra 40% they got paid for their crop, they wouldn't be in the spot they are in right now. Sadly the government shows a similar complete lack of fiscal responsibility and forward planning hnce the mess they are in now. The tax payer has suffered enough at the hands of these PT criminals, time for a change !

[build6]

I'm really, really curious which "foreign banks" would be interested in taking part in this.

[tim armstrong]

The government needs to sell the rice at or near to 1500 baht, which is what hey agreed with the farmers. Probably many farmers loans for tractors, fertilizers are based on that promise. But the government would accept the real world price of 1200 baht. (for 1st grade rice) Problem - Much of the stored rice is more than one year old. Problem: government has lied about sales and has spent the rice money elsewhere - but where? The Banks are not stupid - yes they are concerned about legitimacy, but they are waiting for the price to drop to about 250 baht, so they can sell it on.

When the farmers get their money it will for sure be barely enough to meet their borrowings, which will keep them in debt until the next harvest, and so the cycle continues. Before the rice pledging scheme the farmers didn't have this kind of debt. The suicide of a desperate farmer at Phitsanulok recently speaks for itself.

[robertson468]

Most farmers cant read or dont buy newspapers which is a bonus to the PTP.

They might just get away with it.

Ive withdrawn all my money from Thai banks. First time ive ever done this.

Farmers don't need newspapers or the internet to know just what a mess this government has made of the rice scam. They have a network of co-operatives, mobile phones, they talk to each other. All those nice shiny Isuzu and Vigos will have to be paid for and when there's no cash, we all know what happens. And when that happens, farmers get mad.

Farmers may be portrayed sometimes as simple folk, but in fact they are smarter than this lot ruining the country.

I have to agree. I know quite a few Farmers in the Chumpohn area from where my Wife's Family come from. They are an intelligent and hardworking group of people, for whom I have the greatest respect. Whilst they are not rice Farmers, I have every sympathy for them and this appalling deal. Someone, or the Government should be legally held to account, and quickly for this utter debacle.

[Bakseeda]

Pheu Thai may pay the price at the ballot box for failure to pay farmers

Yet sadly their main rivals chose to boycott the election despite knowing they had a chance of winning. (Abhisit has been heard in every interview claiming they led at the polls.)

The reasons they did this are obvious and point to a complete rejection of democracy and the accountability that goes with it.

PT will win the election which is breath taking considering how much popular opinion is now against them. Shame on you "Democrats" - an oxymoron if ever I heard one, on a par with the "Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea"

Its about ridding this country of the Shinewatras for good... Don't you understand what is happening... Good on Abhisit and his Dems.. they sure have Balls..

[casualbiker]

Rice farmers joining protest makes little sense since if the PDRC wins they will end the rice scheme anyways.

The rice scheme has ALREADY ENDED. Yingluck said so!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[kerrysum]

Everyone knows that in the bigger picture this was a planned eminent domain scheme by the government to reclaim land currently used by farmers across the nation. Promise to buy their rice at a favorable price, keep them waiting for payment, force them to take loans at government banks using their land as collateral, then screw them when they can't repay the loan.

Wow that Thaksin fellow is one smart dude. Really bleeds the country across all areas where wealth lies awaiting for the picking.

Next, Thai Airways....

What can I say,

YOU hit the nail square on the head.... this has been happening for years in Thailand..... It was done in little steps, but the reality is coming true, in today's age..... But somehow you just can't convince the people of it......

Been there done that, so maybe it is just time to let them learn..... do feel sorry for the farmers, but then, money will always get it the way....

kilosierra

[kerrysum]

To all posters regarding this subject ??????

Thank you, I enjoyed reading them all.... so much truth here, but seldom consumed by the Thai people, let us hope that they are in the new awakening of what is really going on... Common sense rules, as many of us have learned in the past... Let us hold their feet to the fire......

Have a great day, the all of you....

Unfortunately as the norm, the farmers will suffer.........

Good luck Thai-Rak-Thai Party....

[tonneke breda]

The PT has just broken the backbone of their supporters and the economic backbone of the nation.

If there are clever people under the Democrats or newly to be formed political parties, i would advice them to buy a lot of rice seeds, fertilizer and other farmer supplies and help out as many farmers as you can help, to prove to this poor lads that they and the Bangkokians do care about them.

This wil also be for sure the last time that the Thaksin clan has the majority of the voters in some of the rural areas.

But if the rich, the elite, the Dem's and the reformers fail to give the farmers support now that they need it, there might be another PT- related group that will go running with this rural votes.

[Dogmatix]

No big surprise that the first auction for B20bn failed. With no clarity on the legality of the government guarantee the banks had to add in a risk premium on the basis that the government could default on payment, as, indeed, it has happily down on the payments to the farmers.

The government's solution is to double up the next auction to B40bn. The only solution will be to either somehow get the government guarantee, which seems unlikely, borrow without guarantee at the market price to a borrower is borrowing to pay off creditors it has defaulted on for 5 months. It is also not clear how much appetite the banks had for the B20bn even with the higher interest rates they bid. An earlier auction of government guaranteed bonds by the BAAC was 50% undersubscribed because the government was unrealistic with the interest rate.

This seems a real b*ggers muddle. The situation has been created through incompetence and corruption. Now further incompetence is digging them into a much deeper hole.

[belg]

if riceberg scam was so succesfull, all they had to do is sell the stock and use that money to pay them, but it is just a botomless pit, used to get voters & buy their votes

[Centrum]

This seems a real b*ggers muddle. The situation has been created through incompetence and corruption. Now further incompetence is digging them into a much deeper hole.

Nah, come on mate, Thaksin is a billionaire. He made his fortune in Thailand and is a veritable God to many on this forum.

How dare you use 'incompetence and corruption' when referring to a situation created by this financial genius?

(I hope that saves jackrich from having to post!)

[Old Man River]

Everyone knows that in the bigger picture this was a planned eminent domain scheme by the government to reclaim land currently used by farmers across the nation. Promise to buy their rice at a favorable price, keep them waiting for payment, force them to take loans at government banks using their land as collateral, then screw them when they can't repay the loan.

Wow that Thaksin fellow is one smart dude. Really bleeds the country across all areas where wealth lies awaiting for the picking.

Next, Thai Airways....

What can I say,

YOU hit the nail square on the head.... this has been happening for years in Thailand..... It was done in little steps, but the reality is coming true, in today's age..... But somehow you just can't convince the people of it......

Been there done that, so maybe it is just time to let them learn..... do feel sorry for the farmers, but then, money will always get it the way....

kilosierra

The only problem with this is that the land goes to the lenders and then to auction, with subsequent bidders bing watched very closely. Let's not forget that it was a similar situation that Thaksin was convicted on.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Jonmarleesco]

'... the Commerce Ministry has high hopes that foreign banks would be interested.' Ah, funny how foreign entities suddenly become important to the Thais. But if I were a member of the ministry, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Jonmarleesco]

'Caretaker Deputy Commerce Minister Yanyong Phuangrach said the state-owned banks' employees ... should concern themselves more about the farmers who have been not yet been paid ...' I thought that was the [caretaker] government's job.

'The government ... may consider not allowing state-run banks to join the rice-pledging project in the future," he said.' I'm sure the banks will be very upset to hear that.