Court rules today on warrants for arrest of 19 protest leaders including Suthep

[pipkins]

And they all missed this. The gargage collector pic went viral last week.

Over 100 injuries becase he had a red t shirt on him.

Pity Sutheps complicit media never report on these thing .... or is it? Might put some of the sheep off the PDRC as this is what will happen to them in future when Suthep rules the roost and they complain....

http://prachatai.com/english/node/3845

[stickyrice2000]

I kept seeing people bringing back the past incidents. This is 2014. Let's stick to the present situation and not the past. Who is causing the chaos now? The past is supposed to be a lesson so you don't follow the same footsteps. Wrong is wrong whether it's in the past, present or future.

[icommunity]

A Response to

ggold, on 31 Jan 2014 - 13:49, said: (Post #30)

You seem to forget or choose not to recognise the fact the the Judiciary are independent, something the government tried to alter so as not to have the checks and balances that control any government. But in your eyes they are destructive? how do you work that out.

Oh I see just because they are independent and find against the government then they must be on the democrats side against the government. Really?

Is it impossible to think that maybe the independent Judiciary may actually be the only law in this country that can save Thailand from itself?

And yet again another one who can't answer the questions I put forward. Do you really believe PTP have been a good government, none corrupted not riddled with graft??

My Response

The perception that the court and the so called independence agencies are destructive is the same that the DEM's PDRC/PCAD created a perception that the Police force cannot be trusted.

I shared in this board before that the use of judiciary by both sides will not solve the power struggle problem in view of our "peculiar transition". The independence agencies are there for check and balance but they are now used as political tools and cases are politically motivated not check and balance. When judges of the Court/independence agencies are being used to further politics, than they lose their legitimacy, transparency and efficacy. Therefore they become a destructive force rather than check and balance positive force.

I believe PTP has been a good government and I am not a holier than thou person. Since the government has returned power to the people, all judicial proceedings against politicians and government should be suspended until after the election. IMO, the statements and remarks made by the court/independence agencies violated election law.

[icommunity]

It does not matter how or what the court will rule. It is obvious that the DEM's PDRC/PCAD has violated the rights of the people and continue to do so that it has become a national security problem. Their crimes were committed before the SOE was declared. They are now violating laws related to SOE.

You forgot to add Yingluck, Chalerm, and most of the PTP's leaders names as well as some if the ministers in the current gov to your list. They all have many skeletons in their closet

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Irrelevant comment.

[icommunity]

icommunity post # 4

it does not matter how or what the court will rule. It is obvious that the DEM's PDRC/PCAD has violated the rights of the people and continue to do so that it has become a national security problem. Their crimes were committed before the SOE was declared. They are now violating laws related to SOE.

You don't wait for an warrant of arrest when you see a robber robbing. You don't need an warrant of arrest when you encountered people intimidate and threaten you to stop works to join their activities. You don't need an arrest warrant to arrest people who made terrorist threat of shutting down a city if demand is not met. You don't need arrest warrant to arrest people threatened to cut water and electricity supply.

Another fine example of yet another poster who is suffering from selective amnesia regarding the actions of the Red Shirts in 2010, yet he or she states that of course it's the P.R.D.C leadership etc who are the criminals.

Indeed your detours from the truth make humorous reading along with inducing much mirth and merriment regarding your utterances.

I think you have a serious problem on selective amnesia. Many RED/UDD 2009/2010 protesters are still in jails without trial while some on bails after in remand jails. None of the PAD leaders ever step a foot in jail and their cases have been postponing endlessly - must be at least six years now.

You have distorted the truth. Distortion is worse than lies.

BTW, how is it that my comment on arrest warrant got to do with the action of RS in 2010?

[Scamper]

Pheu Thai has a knee-jerk response to verdicts that they don't like. Either don't accept them, or refile. It really is a form of intimidation. It's like Phue Thai saying - Don't you dare reject this if you know what's good for you.

[TallPalm]

It does not matter how or what the court will rule. It is obvious that the DEM's PDRC/PCAD has violated the rights of the people and continue to do so that it has become a national security problem. Their crimes were committed before the SOE was declared. They are now violating laws related to SOE.

You don't wait for an warrant of arrest when you see a robber robbing. You don't need an warrant of arrest when you encountered people intimidate and threaten you to stop works to join their activities. You don't need an arrest warrant to arrest people who made terrorist threat of shutting down a city if demand is not met. You don't need arrest warrant to arrest people threatened to cut water and electricity supply.

Thank God, I was starting to think this forum was run by and for yellow / anti-government supporters with no respect for the rights of the people that don't agree with whart Suthep has instigated / is demanding, especially with the amount of 'red' bashing that goes on here at every possible opportunity.

[Baerboxer]

It does not matter how or what the court will rule. It is obvious that the DEM's PDRC/PCAD has violated the rights of the people and continue to do so that it has become a national security problem. Their crimes were committed before the SOE was declared. They are now violating laws related to SOE.

You don't wait for an warrant of arrest when you see a robber robbing. You don't need an warrant of arrest when you encountered people intimidate and threaten you to stop works to join their activities. You don't need an arrest warrant to arrest people who made terrorist threat of shutting down a city if demand is not met. You don't need arrest warrant to arrest people threatened to cut water and electricity supply.

"You don't wait for an warrant of arrest when you see a robber robbing"

PTP better be careful you don't arrest them then

"It does not matter how or what the court will rule. It is obvious that ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, "

So the rule of law is not important and decisions made by judges and the courts do not matter? The Shins wold agree as they have demonstrated. Of course the caretaker government knows what's best for everyone and they would never lie now would they?

Hmmmm was that question of illegally issuing a passport to a fugitive criminal ever answered? Doesn't matter, everyone knows he really innocent of the conviction the 15 other outstanding charges and every other accusation floating around. I mean, it's obvious isn't it?

[Baerboxer]

A Response to

ggold, on 31 Jan 2014 - 13:49, said: (Post #30)

You seem to forget or choose not to recognise the fact the the Judiciary are independent, something the government tried to alter so as not to have the checks and balances that control any government. But in your eyes they are destructive? how do you work that out.

Oh I see just because they are independent and find against the government then they must be on the democrats side against the government. Really?

Is it impossible to think that maybe the independent Judiciary may actually be the only law in this country that can save Thailand from itself?

And yet again another one who can't answer the questions I put forward. Do you really believe PTP have been a good government, none corrupted not riddled with graft??

My Response

The perception that the court and the so called independence agencies are destructive is the same that the DEM's PDRC/PCAD created a perception that the Police force cannot be trusted.

I shared in this board before that the use of judiciary by both sides will not solve the power struggle problem in view of our "peculiar transition". The independence agencies are there for check and balance but they are now used as political tools and cases are politically motivated not check and balance. When judges of the Court/independence agencies are being used to further politics, than they lose their legitimacy, transparency and efficacy. Therefore they become a destructive force rather than check and balance positive force.

I believe PTP has been a good government and I am not a holier than thou person. Since the government has returned power to the people, all judicial proceedings against politicians and government should be suspended until after the election. IMO, the statements and remarks made by the court/independence agencies violated election law.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinions. But one serious question. You really believe PTP has been a good government since taking office, free from corruption and adhering to the law, parliamentary procedures, true democratic principles? That they have never lied, followed due process and acted with transparency and accountability?

Fine - if you do that is your opinion. But, please could you explain what makes you believe this and form such an opinion?

[icommunity]

A Response to

ggold, on 31 Jan 2014 - 13:49, said: (Post #30)

You seem to forget or choose not to recognise the fact the the Judiciary are independent, something the government tried to alter so as not to have the checks and balances that control any government. But in your eyes they are destructive? how do you work that out.

Oh I see just because they are independent and find against the government then they must be on the democrats side against the government. Really?

Is it impossible to think that maybe the independent Judiciary may actually be the only law in this country that can save Thailand from itself?

And yet again another one who can't answer the questions I put forward. Do you really believe PTP have been a good government, none corrupted not riddled with graft??

My Response

The perception that the court and the so called independence agencies are destructive is the same that the DEM's PDRC/PCAD created a perception that the Police force cannot be trusted.

I shared in this board before that the use of judiciary by both sides will not solve the power struggle problem in view of our "peculiar transition". The independence agencies are there for check and balance but they are now used as political tools and cases are politically motivated not check and balance. When judges of the Court/independence agencies are being used to further politics, than they lose their legitimacy, transparency and efficacy. Therefore they become a destructive force rather than check and balance positive force.

I believe PTP has been a good government and I am not a holier than thou person. Since the government has returned power to the people, all judicial proceedings against politicians and government should be suspended until after the election. IMO, the statements and remarks made by the court/independence agencies violated election law.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinions. But one serious question. You really believe PTP has been a good government since taking office, free from corruption and adhering to the law, parliamentary procedures, true democratic principles? That they have never lied, followed due process and acted with transparency and accountability?

Fine - if you do that is your opinion. But, please could you explain what makes you believe this and form such an opinion?

There is no conclusive evidence. Only speculation and assumption. It remains to me a perception that is a result of distortion, rumor, untruth, misinformation and smear.

I don't argue on who is more evil and do not take a holier than thou attitude. Rule of law must prevail but must be based on the principle of justice, evidence, not on judges personal opinion, speculation, assumption and on conjecture.

When judges of the Court/independence agencies are being used to further politics, than they lose their legitimacy, transparency and efficacy. Therefore they become a destructive force rather than check and balance positive force.

If the present government is not good and is so evil as accused by the DEM's PDRC/PCAD, there is no reason that other parties cannot vote them out.

[scorecard]

A Response to

ggold, on 31 Jan 2014 - 13:49, said: (Post #30)

You seem to forget or choose not to recognise the fact the the Judiciary are independent, something the government tried to alter so as not to have the checks and balances that control any government. But in your eyes they are destructive? how do you work that out.

Oh I see just because they are independent and find against the government then they must be on the democrats side against the government. Really?

Is it impossible to think that maybe the independent Judiciary may actually be the only law in this country that can save Thailand from itself?

And yet again another one who can't answer the questions I put forward. Do you really believe PTP have been a good government, none corrupted not riddled with graft??

My Response

The perception that the court and the so called independence agencies are destructive is the same that the DEM's PDRC/PCAD created a perception that the Police force cannot be trusted.

I shared in this board before that the use of judiciary by both sides will not solve the power struggle problem in view of our "peculiar transition". The independence agencies are there for check and balance but they are now used as political tools and cases are politically motivated not check and balance. When judges of the Court/independence agencies are being used to further politics, than they lose their legitimacy, transparency and efficacy. Therefore they become a destructive force rather than check and balance positive force.

I believe PTP has been a good government and I am not a holier than thou person. Since the government has returned power to the people, all judicial proceedings against politicians and government should be suspended until after the election. IMO, the statements and remarks made by the court/independence agencies violated election law.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinions. But one serious question. You really believe PTP has been a good government since taking office, free from corruption and adhering to the law, parliamentary procedures, true democratic principles? That they have never lied, followed due process and acted with transparency and accountability?

Fine - if you do that is your opinion. But, please could you explain what makes you believe this and form such an opinion?

There is no conclusive evidence. Only speculation and assumption. It remains to me a perception that is a result of distortion, rumor, untruth, misinformation and smear.

I don't argue on who is more evil and do not take a holier than thou attitude. Rule of law must prevail but must be based on the principle of justice, evidence, not on judges personal opinion, speculation, assumption and on conjecture.

When judges of the Court/independence agencies are being used to further politics, than they lose their legitimacy, transparency and efficacy. Therefore they become a destructive force rather than check and balance positive force.

If the present government is not good and is so evil as accused by the DEM's PDRC/PCAD, there is no reason that other parties cannot vote them out.

My guess is that you also believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. Another clarification question = do you believe all the revelations of the last 2 weeks about the rice scam is just a beat up?

[casualbiker]

icommunity post # 4

it does not matter how or what the court will rule. It is obvious that the DEM's PDRC/PCAD has violated the rights of the people and continue to do so that it has become a national security problem. Their crimes were committed before the SOE was declared. They are now violating laws related to SOE.

You don't wait for an warrant of arrest when you see a robber robbing. You don't need an warrant of arrest when you encountered people intimidate and threaten you to stop works to join their activities. You don't need an arrest warrant to arrest people who made terrorist threat of shutting down a city if demand is not met. You don't need arrest warrant to arrest people threatened to cut water and electricity supply.

Another fine example of yet another poster who is suffering from selective amnesia regarding the actions of the Red Shirts in 2010, yet he or she states that of course it's the P.R.D.C leadership etc who are the criminals.

Indeed your detours from the truth make humorous reading along with inducing much mirth and merriment regarding your utterances.

I think you have a serious problem on selective amnesia. Many RED/UDD 2009/2010 protesters are still in jails without trial while some on bails after in remand jails. None of the PAD leaders ever step a foot in jail and their cases have been postponing endlessly - must be at least six years now.

You have distorted the truth. Distortion is worse than lies.

BTW, how is it that my comment on arrest warrant got to do with the action of RS in 2010?

And all that while their beloved government were in power.. Where were Thaksins millions then?The government and Thaksin could have easily arranged bail for most if not all in prison.. BUT in a good game of chess the pawns are sacrificed.

Also other than a couple of BIG mouths non of the RED leadership stepped foot in jail either, They became MP's.

Edited January 31, 2014 by casualbiker

[scorecard]

A Response to

ggold, on 31 Jan 2014 - 13:49, said: (Post #30)

You seem to forget or choose not to recognise the fact the the Judiciary are independent, something the government tried to alter so as not to have the checks and balances that control any government. But in your eyes they are destructive? how do you work that out.

Oh I see just because they are independent and find against the government then they must be on the democrats side against the government. Really?

Is it impossible to think that maybe the independent Judiciary may actually be the only law in this country that can save Thailand from itself?

And yet again another one who can't answer the questions I put forward. Do you really believe PTP have been a good government, none corrupted not riddled with graft??

My Response

The perception that the court and the so called independence agencies are destructive is the same that the DEM's PDRC/PCAD created a perception that the Police force cannot be trusted.

I shared in this board before that the use of judiciary by both sides will not solve the power struggle problem in view of our "peculiar transition". The independence agencies are there for check and balance but they are now used as political tools and cases are politically motivated not check and balance. When judges of the Court/independence agencies are being used to further politics, than they lose their legitimacy, transparency and efficacy. Therefore they become a destructive force rather than check and balance positive force.

I believe PTP has been a good government and I am not a holier than thou person. Since the government has returned power to the people, all judicial proceedings against politicians and government should be suspended until after the election. IMO, the statements and remarks made by the court/independence agencies violated election law.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinions. But one serious question. You really believe PTP has been a good government since taking office, free from corruption and adhering to the law, parliamentary procedures, true democratic principles? That they have never lied, followed due process and acted with transparency and accountability?

Fine - if you do that is your opinion. But, please could you explain what makes you believe this and form such an opinion?

There is no conclusive evidence. Only speculation and assumption. It remains to me a perception that is a result of distortion, rumor, untruth, misinformation and smear.

I don't argue on who is more evil and do not take a holier than thou attitude. Rule of law must prevail but must be based on the principle of justice, evidence, not on judges personal opinion, speculation, assumption and on conjecture.

When judges of the Court/independence agencies are being used to further politics, than they lose their legitimacy, transparency and efficacy. Therefore they become a destructive force rather than check and balance positive force.

If the present government is not good and is so evil as accused by the DEM's PDRC/PCAD, there is no reason that other parties cannot vote them out.

So, let's go back to the original case against the paymaster when by the skin of his teeth (vote of 1 judge) he escaped conviction.

That one judge later said specifically that regardless of the actual law he just couldn't find the paymaster guilty because his party had just won an election.

So please share your comment on this.

[casualbiker]

And they all missed this. The gargage collector pic went viral last week.

Over 100 injuries becase he had a red t shirt on him.

Pity Sutheps complicit media never report on these thing .... or is it? Might put some of the sheep off the PDRC as this is what will happen to them in future when Suthep rules the roost and they complain....

http://prachatai.com/english/node/3845

I do not condone these attacks at all.. but i find the fact that you mention " Sutheps complicit media" and use an article from a pro red online rag financed via US $$$$$$$

amusing to say the least.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/09/soros-funded-hrw-awards-soros-funded.html

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2013/12/us-funded-pro-democracy-propagandists.html

[icommunity]

It does not matter how or what the court will rule. It is obvious that the DEM's PDRC/PCAD has violated the rights of the people and continue to do so that it has become a national security problem. Their crimes were committed before the SOE was declared. They are now violating laws related to SOE.

You don't wait for an warrant of arrest when you see a robber robbing. You don't need an warrant of arrest when you encountered people intimidate and threaten you to stop works to join their activities. You don't need an arrest warrant to arrest people who made terrorist threat of shutting down a city if demand is not met. You don't need arrest warrant to arrest people threatened to cut water and electricity supply.

"You don't wait for an warrant of arrest when you see a robber robbing"

PTP better be careful you don't arrest them then

"It does not matter how or what the court will rule. It is obvious that ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, "

So the rule of law is not important and decisions made by judges and the courts do not matter? The Shins wold agree as they have demonstrated. Of course the caretaker government knows what's best for everyone and they would never lie now would they?

Hmmmm was that question of illegally issuing a passport to a fugitive criminal ever answered? Doesn't matter, everyone knows he really innocent of the conviction the 15 other outstanding charges and every other accusation floating around. I mean, it's obvious isn't it?

Your comment is completely taken out of the context on what I was talking on the issuing of arrest warrant.

You comment on Thaksin's passpot is irrelevant on the subject of issuing arrest warrant. BTW, the returning of Thaksin passport was on the same principle and immigration policy that revoked it. He reapplied on expiry and was approved just like anyone.

I don't know whether he is guilty or not guilty on all his other alleged wrongdoings.

I only wish to see the two power-base get together for talk during this 'peculiar transition' period of Thailand. I shared my opinion about this at ThaiVisa. Arguing over who is more evil and with a holier than thou attitude is not going to unite Thailand and move on.

[fab4]

It does not matter how or what the court will rule. It is obvious that the DEM's PDRC/PCAD has violated the rights of the people and continue to do so that it has become a national security problem. Their crimes were committed before the SOE was declared. They are now violating laws related to SOE.

You don't wait for an warrant of arrest when you see a robber robbing. You don't need an warrant of arrest when you encountered people intimidate and threaten you to stop works to join their activities. You don't need an arrest warrant to arrest people who made terrorist threat of shutting down a city if demand is not met. You don't need arrest warrant to arrest people threatened to cut water and electricity supply.

So pray tell what do you need an arrest warrant for? Maybe it is a peaceful protest, people practising their democratic right to say what they think is wrong. Your a fascist, as you call them terrorists.

A peaceful protest? What about the democratic rights of the people who want to vote?

You are calling him a fascist, based on what? If a group of people taking hostage a whole city that is a terroristic act? Nothing against demonstrations nothing against strikes but blackmailing a government is not a democratic right.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

what about a government that pushes for an election when it is the only party that is standing for election, an election which will probably be cancelled as null and void due to lack of voters. Or do you expect that because PTP are the only party standing they will get all the votes, from all the electorate? lets face it the smaller parties won't make a showing as far as number of votes they get.

As for blackmailing a government? Is it not the government that are blackmailing everyone else if they don't get what they want. Besides it's not blackmail when protesters want to kick the government out. They are not saying give us this or else, they are saying enough to corruption and graft.

"what about a government that pushes for an election when it is the only party that is standing for election"

Actually there are 53 political parties registered to contest the election, but don't you worry about a little fact like that.

"Besides it's not blackmail when protesters want to kick the government out.They are not saying give us this or else, they are saying enough to corruption and graft."

The normal process of "kicking a government out" is achieved though taking part in an election.

The "blackmail" element comes into play when you refuse to do so, and then demand that Yingluck resigns, that the Shinawatra family en masse walk away from politics completely, that reforms take place before any election, that an unelected "peoples council" is put in place, that the royally decreed elections do not take place at all, that you impede peoples right to vote, etc

or do you think those are reasonable requests and not demands?

[icommunity]

icommunity post # 4

it does not matter how or what the court will rule. It is obvious that the DEM's PDRC/PCAD has violated the rights of the people and continue to do so that it has become a national security problem. Their crimes were committed before the SOE was declared. They are now violating laws related to SOE.

You don't wait for an warrant of arrest when you see a robber robbing. You don't need an warrant of arrest when you encountered people intimidate and threaten you to stop works to join their activities. You don't need an arrest warrant to arrest people who made terrorist threat of shutting down a city if demand is not met. You don't need arrest warrant to arrest people threatened to cut water and electricity supply.

Another fine example of yet another poster who is suffering from selective amnesia regarding the actions of the Red Shirts in 2010, yet he or she states that of course it's the P.R.D.C leadership etc who are the criminals.

Indeed your detours from the truth make humorous reading along with inducing much mirth and merriment regarding your utterances.

I think you have a serious problem on selective amnesia. Many RED/UDD 2009/2010 protesters are still in jails without trial while some on bails after in remand jails. None of the PAD leaders ever step a foot in jail and their cases have been postponing endlessly - must be at least six years now.

You have distorted the truth. Distortion is worse than lies.

BTW, how is it that my comment on arrest warrant got to do with the action of RS in 2010?

And all that while there beloved government were in power.. Where were Thaksins millions then?The government and Thaksin could have easily arranged bail for most if not all in prison.. BUT in a good game of chess the pawns are sacrificed.

Also other than a couple of BIG mouths non of the RED leadership stepped foot in jail either, They became MP's.

They were not allowed bail.

[icommunity]

A Response to

ggold, on 31 Jan 2014 - 13:49, said: (Post #30)

You seem to forget or choose not to recognise the fact the the Judiciary are independent, something the government tried to alter so as not to have the checks and balances that control any government. But in your eyes they are destructive? how do you work that out.

Oh I see just because they are independent and find against the government then they must be on the democrats side against the government. Really?

Is it impossible to think that maybe the independent Judiciary may actually be the only law in this country that can save Thailand from itself?

And yet again another one who can't answer the questions I put forward. Do you really believe PTP have been a good government, none corrupted not riddled with graft??

My Response

The perception that the court and the so called independence agencies are destructive is the same that the DEM's PDRC/PCAD created a perception that the Police force cannot be trusted.

I shared in this board before that the use of judiciary by both sides will not solve the power struggle problem in view of our "peculiar transition". The independence agencies are there for check and balance but they are now used as political tools and cases are politically motivated not check and balance. When judges of the Court/independence agencies are being used to further politics, than they lose their legitimacy, transparency and efficacy. Therefore they become a destructive force rather than check and balance positive force.

I believe PTP has been a good government and I am not a holier than thou person. Since the government has returned power to the people, all judicial proceedings against politicians and government should be suspended until after the election. IMO, the statements and remarks made by the court/independence agencies violated election law.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinions. But one serious question. You really believe PTP has been a good government since taking office, free from corruption and adhering to the law, parliamentary procedures, true democratic principles? That they have never lied, followed due process and acted with transparency and accountability?

Fine - if you do that is your opinion. But, please could you explain what makes you believe this and form such an opinion?

There is no conclusive evidence. Only speculation and assumption. It remains to me a perception that is a result of distortion, rumor, untruth, misinformation and smear.

I don't argue on who is more evil and do not take a holier than thou attitude. Rule of law must prevail but must be based on the principle of justice, evidence, not on judges personal opinion, speculation, assumption and on conjecture.

When judges of the Court/independence agencies are being used to further politics, than they lose their legitimacy, transparency and efficacy. Therefore they become a destructive force rather than check and balance positive force.

If the present government is not good and is so evil as accused by the DEM's PDRC/PCAD, there is no reason that other parties cannot vote them out.

So, let's go back to the original case against the paymaster when by the skin of his teeth (vote of 1 judge) he escaped conviction.

That one judge later said specifically that regardless of the actual law he just couldn't find the paymaster guilty because his party had just won an election.

So please share your comment on this.

That was not Thaksin's fault. You can impeach the judge if you want.

[casualbiker]

Another fine example of yet another poster who is suffering from selective amnesia regarding the actions of the Red Shirts in 2010, yet he or she states that of course it's the P.R.D.C leadership etc who are the criminals.

Indeed your detours from the truth make humorous reading along with inducing much mirth and merriment regarding your utterances.

I think you have a serious problem on selective amnesia. Many RED/UDD 2009/2010 protesters are still in jails without trial while some on bails after in remand jails. None of the PAD leaders ever step a foot in jail and their cases have been postponing endlessly - must be at least six years now.

You have distorted the truth. Distortion is worse than lies.

BTW, how is it that my comment on arrest warrant got to do with the action of RS in 2010?

And all that while there beloved government were in power.. Where were Thaksins millions then?The government and Thaksin could have easily arranged bail for most if not all in prison.. BUT in a good game of chess the pawns are sacrificed.

Also other than a couple of BIG mouths non of the RED leadership stepped foot in jail either, They became MP's.

They were not allowed bail.

some of them were not as they had been charged with serious crimes (propertydamage etc) but the rest could have got bail if the money had been raised. The government at one point were even trying to take it out of the justice dept fund.

they were and are pawns.. promised daily money in the advent of an innocent or mistrial.

Edited January 31, 2014 by casualbiker

[icommunity]

A Response to

ggold, on 31 Jan 2014 - 13:49, said: (Post #30)

You seem to forget or choose not to recognise the fact the the Judiciary are independent, something the government tried to alter so as not to have the checks and balances that control any government. But in your eyes they are destructive? how do you work that out.

Oh I see just because they are independent and find against the government then they must be on the democrats side against the government. Really?

Is it impossible to think that maybe the independent Judiciary may actually be the only law in this country that can save Thailand from itself?

And yet again another one who can't answer the questions I put forward. Do you really believe PTP have been a good government, none corrupted not riddled with graft??

My Response

The perception that the court and the so called independence agencies are destructive is the same that the DEM's PDRC/PCAD created a perception that the Police force cannot be trusted.

I shared in this board before that the use of judiciary by both sides will not solve the power struggle problem in view of our "peculiar transition". The independence agencies are there for check and balance but they are now used as political tools and cases are politically motivated not check and balance. When judges of the Court/independence agencies are being used to further politics, than they lose their legitimacy, transparency and efficacy. Therefore they become a destructive force rather than check and balance positive force.

I believe PTP has been a good government and I am not a holier than thou person. Since the government has returned power to the people, all judicial proceedings against politicians and government should be suspended until after the election. IMO, the statements and remarks made by the court/independence agencies violated election law.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinions. But one serious question. You really believe PTP has been a good government since taking office, free from corruption and adhering to the law, parliamentary procedures, true democratic principles? That they have never lied, followed due process and acted with transparency and accountability?

Fine - if you do that is your opinion. But, please could you explain what makes you believe this and form such an opinion?

There is no conclusive evidence. Only speculation and assumption. It remains to me a perception that is a result of distortion, rumor, untruth, misinformation and smear.

I don't argue on who is more evil and do not take a holier than thou attitude. Rule of law must prevail but must be based on the principle of justice, evidence, not on judges personal opinion, speculation, assumption and on conjecture.

When judges of the Court/independence agencies are being used to further politics, than they lose their legitimacy, transparency and efficacy. Therefore they become a destructive force rather than check and balance positive force.

If the present government is not good and is so evil as accused by the DEM's PDRC/PCAD, there is no reason that other parties cannot vote them out.

My guess is that you also believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. Another clarification question = do you believe all the revelations of the last 2 weeks about the rice scam is just a beat up?

They are in investigation and enquiry stages. However, I do believe there is sabotaging by unscrupulous traders, officials, politicians and farmers themselves. Disruptive politics created multiple challenges on the rice pledging scheme.

[casualbiker]

There is no conclusive evidence. Only speculation and assumption. It remains to me a perception that is a result of distortion, rumor, untruth, misinformation and smear.

I don't argue on who is more evil and do not take a holier than thou attitude. Rule of law must prevail but must be based on the principle of justice, evidence, not on judges personal opinion, speculation, assumption and on conjecture.

When judges of the Court/independence agencies are being used to further politics, than they lose their legitimacy, transparency and efficacy. Therefore they become a destructive force rather than check and balance positive force.

If the present government is not good and is so evil as accused by the DEM's PDRC/PCAD, there is no reason that other parties cannot vote them out.

So, let's go back to the original case against the paymaster when by the skin of his teeth (vote of 1 judge) he escaped conviction.

That one judge later said specifically that regardless of the actual law he just couldn't find the paymaster guilty because his party had just won an election.

So please share your comment on this.

That was not Thaksin's fault. You can impeach the judge if you want.

who honestly knows... from later evidence it's been proved that Thaksin's lawyers tend to leave tuppaware lunch boxes laying around stuffed with money.

[scorecard]

There is no conclusive evidence. Only speculation and assumption. It remains to me a perception that is a result of distortion, rumor, untruth, misinformation and smear.

I don't argue on who is more evil and do not take a holier than thou attitude. Rule of law must prevail but must be based on the principle of justice, evidence, not on judges personal opinion, speculation, assumption and on conjecture.

When judges of the Court/independence agencies are being used to further politics, than they lose their legitimacy, transparency and efficacy. Therefore they become a destructive force rather than check and balance positive force.

If the present government is not good and is so evil as accused by the DEM's PDRC/PCAD, there is no reason that other parties cannot vote them out.

So, let's go back to the original case against the paymaster when by the skin of his teeth (vote of 1 judge) he escaped conviction.

That one judge later said specifically that regardless of the actual law he just couldn't find the paymaster guilty because his party had just won an election.

So please share your comment on this.

That was not Thaksin's fault. You can impeach the judge if you want.

who honestly knows... from later evidence it's been proved that Thaksin's lawyers tend to leave tuppaware lunch boxes laying around stuffed with money.

Quote:

"That was not Thaksin's fault. You can impeach the judge if you want."

Actually I didn't ask you if it was thaksin's fault.

I did ask for your comment (meaning opinion).

And I requite your own words:

"Rule of law must prevail but must be based on the principle of justice, evidence, not on judges personal opinion, speculation, assumption and on conjecture."

So I ask again for your opinion.

On the other hand, if youu don't want to take part in an adult discussion, I'll just see your comments as childish, foolish, lacking is any credibility, and trolling.

Over to you.

Edited January 31, 2014 by scorecard

[icommunity]

There is no conclusive evidence. Only speculation and assumption. It remains to me a perception that is a result of distortion, rumor, untruth, misinformation and smear.

I don't argue on who is more evil and do not take a holier than thou attitude. Rule of law must prevail but must be based on the principle of justice, evidence, not on judges personal opinion, speculation, assumption and on conjecture.

When judges of the Court/independence agencies are being used to further politics, than they lose their legitimacy, transparency and efficacy. Therefore they become a destructive force rather than check and balance positive force.

If the present government is not good and is so evil as accused by the DEM's PDRC/PCAD, there is no reason that other parties cannot vote them out.

So, let's go back to the original case against the paymaster when by the skin of his teeth (vote of 1 judge) he escaped conviction.

That one judge later said specifically that regardless of the actual law he just couldn't find the paymaster guilty because his party had just won an election.

So please share your comment on this.

That was not Thaksin's fault. You can impeach the judge if you want.

who honestly knows... from later evidence it's been proved that Thaksin's lawyers tend to leave tuppaware lunch boxes laying around stuffed with money.

Quote:

"That was not Thaksin's fault. You can impeach the judge if you want."

Fine, you don't want to take part in an adult discussion, I'll just see your comments as childish, foolish, lacking is any credibility, and trolling.

That was your childish attitude.

[icommunity]

There is no conclusive evidence. Only speculation and assumption. It remains to me a perception that is a result of distortion, rumor, untruth, misinformation and smear.

I don't argue on who is more evil and do not take a holier than thou attitude. Rule of law must prevail but must be based on the principle of justice, evidence, not on judges personal opinion, speculation, assumption and on conjecture.

When judges of the Court/independence agencies are being used to further politics, than they lose their legitimacy, transparency and efficacy. Therefore they become a destructive force rather than check and balance positive force.

If the present government is not good and is so evil as accused by the DEM's PDRC/PCAD, there is no reason that other parties cannot vote them out.

So, let's go back to the original case against the paymaster when by the skin of his teeth (vote of 1 judge) he escaped conviction.

That one judge later said specifically that regardless of the actual law he just couldn't find the paymaster guilty because his party had just won an election.

So please share your comment on this.

That was not Thaksin's fault. You can impeach the judge if you want.

who honestly knows... from later evidence it's been proved that Thaksin's lawyers tend to leave tuppaware lunch boxes laying around stuffed with money.

Quote:

"That was not Thaksin's fault. You can impeach the judge if you want."

Actually I didn't ask you if it was thaksin's fault.

I did ask for your comment (meaning opinion).

And I requite your own words:

"Rule of law must prevail but must be based on the principle of justice, evidence, not on judges personal opinion, speculation, assumption and on conjecture."

So I ask again for your opinion.

On the other hand, if youu don't want to take part in an adult discussion, I'll just see your comments as childish, foolish, lacking is any credibility, and trolling.

Over to you.

That was my opinion. Its not Thaksin fault. You can impeach the judge if you want.

Again, another childish attitude.

[fleeing]

what about a government that pushes for an election when it is the only party that is standing for election, an election which will probably be cancelled as null and void due to lack of voters. Or do you expect that because PTP are the only party standing they will get all the votes, from all the electorate? lets face it the smaller parties won't make a showing as far as number of votes they get.

As for blackmailing a government? Is it not the government that are blackmailing everyone else if they don't get what they want. Besides it's not blackmail when protesters want to kick the government out. They are not saying give us this or else, they are saying enough to corruption and graft.

"what about a government that pushes for an election when it is the only party that is standing for election"

Actually there are 53 political parties registered to contest the election, but don't you worry about a little fact like that.

"Besides it's not blackmail when protesters want to kick the government out.They are not saying give us this or else, they are saying enough to corruption and graft."

The normal process of "kicking a government out" is achieved though taking part in an election.

The "blackmail" element comes into play when you refuse to do so, and then demand that Yingluck resigns, that the Shinawatra family en masse walk away from politics completely, that reforms take place before any election, that an unelected "peoples council" is put in place, that the royally decreed elections do not take place at all, that you impede peoples right to vote, etc

or do you think those are reasonable requests and not demands?

Could you perhaps list these parties, apart from Bhumjaithai, Chartthaipattana and Chart Pattana Puea Pandin, and explain what their policies are? Admittedly my lack of Thai reading skills confines me to English language media, but I have read nothing about these 53 political parties and, in a democracy, one would assume that their different policies would be widely debated. Are they really independent parties or just Shinawatra shells created to make this election look less like a one horse race?

Edited January 31, 2014 by fleeing

[dcutman]

Civil Court drops injunction request to revoke Emergency Decree filed by protest leader, saying no apparent move to crack down on anti-govt protesters

Why have a SOE if it is not enforced in any way?

[fab4]

http://prachatai.com/english/node/3845

I do not condone these attacks at all.. but i find the fact that you mention " Sutheps complicit media" and use an article from a pro red online rag financed via US $$$$$$$

amusing to say the least.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/09/soros-funded-hrw-awards-soros-funded.html

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2013/12/us-funded-pro-democracy-propagandists.html

Why should it be amusing that Prachatai is used as a source - because Tony "Tinfoil Hat" Cartalucci says so?

Prachatai openly reveals its funding from various donors around the world. Link below has figures for up to 2011.

The total operating costs of Prachatai for the current year (2011) roughly amounts to 8 million Thai baht. It is important to state here that none of our foreign donors has ever put up any demands connected to the funds they provided, nor did they ever interfere with our reporting. http://www.prachatai.com/english/aboutus

They produce and publish financial reports

Prachatai's Code of ConductSection 3. Conflict of interest 28. Prachatai shall disclose its funding sources. Prachatai submits financial reports to the Foundation for Community Educational Media, and publishes its financial reports. http://www.prachatai3.info/english/node/1871

edit: please excuse unusual spacing, this editing facility is not the most stable to use.

Lest we forget how level headed an investigative reporter cartalucci is, here is his take on the deaths of civilians in 2010

"Of the 92 that died, many were red shirts who perished from smoke inhalation while looting buildings fellow protesters lit ablaze."

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2014/01/thailand-regime-plans-to-counter.html

.............................yeah, OK Tony

Edited January 31, 2014 by fab4

[fab4]

what about a government that pushes for an election when it is the only party that is standing for election, an election which will probably be cancelled as null and void due to lack of voters. Or do you expect that because PTP are the only party standing they will get all the votes, from all the electorate? lets face it the smaller parties won't make a showing as far as number of votes they get.

As for blackmailing a government? Is it not the government that are blackmailing everyone else if they don't get what they want. Besides it's not blackmail when protesters want to kick the government out. They are not saying give us this or else, they are saying enough to corruption and graft.

"what about a government that pushes for an election when it is the only party that is standing for election"

Actually there are 53 political parties registered to contest the election, but don't you worry about a little fact like that.

"Besides it's not blackmail when protesters want to kick the government out.They are not saying give us this or else, they are saying enough to corruption and graft."

The normal process of "kicking a government out" is achieved though taking part in an election.

The "blackmail" element comes into play when you refuse to do so, and then demand that Yingluck resigns, that the Shinawatra family en masse walk away from politics completely, that reforms take place before any election, that an unelected "peoples council" is put in place, that the royally decreed elections do not take place at all, that you impede peoples right to vote, etc

or do you think those are reasonable requests and not demands?

Could you perhaps list these parties, apart from Bhumjaithai, Chartthaipattana and Chart Pattana Puea Pandin, and explain what their policies are? Admittedly my lack of Thai reading skills confines me to English language media, but I have read nothing about these 53 political parties and, in a democracy, one would assume that their different policies would be widely debated. Are they really independent parties or just Shinawatra shells created to make this election look less like a one horse race?

Why would I waste my time digging out the policies of 53 political parties when all you have to offer as an argument is that they are "Shinawatra shells created to make this election look less like a one horse race?"

Try google, you might find this link http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/692419-53-political-parties-contesting-in-the-feb-2-polls-thailand/

[Phatcharanan]

It does not matter how or what the court will rule. It is obvious that the DEM's PDRC/PCAD has violated the rights of the people and continue to do so that it has become a national security problem. Their crimes were committed before the SOE was declared. They are now violating laws related to SOE.

You don't wait for an warrant of arrest when you see a robber robbing. You don't need an warrant of arrest when you encountered people intimidate and threaten you to stop works to join their activities. You don't need an arrest warrant to arrest people who made terrorist threat of shutting down a city if demand is not met. You don't need arrest warrant to arrest people threatened to cut water and electricity supply.

So perhaps you could explain the justification for the protests in 2010 and the fact that all laws were ignored by the protestors back then also?

I know you'll complain that this keeps getting dragged up, but it is relevant. If it was OK then for the pro-Thaksin side to completely ignore the rule of law, why is it not now ok for the anti-Govt side to do the same?

I do agree that if someone has an arrest warrant out on them they should submit to the rule of law, but let's not kid ourselves, it needs to start with those IN power. It was possible to stop these protests BEFORE they even got started by laying the law down, making clear what is and is not acceptable by law, keeping the protest sites limited to one or two, restricting movements of protestors, protecting those protesting either pro- or anti-, having a very heavy Police presence etc etc. All in all it's a job the Police have singularly and spectacularly failed to do, both in 2013/2014 and previously in 2010.

The cat is out of the bag now, good luck in putting it back in until such time as ALL sides agree to submit to and respect the rule of law. But let it start with those who are IN power to set the precedent.

The 2009 and 2010 protests ended after cracked down using heavy war weapons. The protesters are still in prisons without trial. Some on bail waiting trials. Not a single PAD leader ever step in a prison on the crimes they committed and their trials postponing endlessly.

I have on many occasion mentioned that the administration and enforcement of rule of law must be equal and without fear and favour.

I have also said : While it is commendable to avoid clashes and bloodshed when enforcing the rule of law, but when those restraint and patience attitude are being taken for granted and/or taken advantaged of, the enforcement must than be swift and forcibly carried out.

I know the law enforcement agencies especially the police are taking a very cautious step because of the corrupted and destructive judiciary - especially the so called independence agencies. They make ruling not on evidence and justice but their personal opinion, on conjecture and threat of their 'secret past' being surfaced.

That was what my current post is all about - You DON'T need an arrest warrant.

So, you've basically ok'd the response that was meted out in 2010, good to see that you are able to evenhandedly serve out justice to both sides:

I have on many occasion mentioned that the administration and enforcement of rule of law must be equal and without fear and favour.

While it is commendable to avoid clashes and bloodshed when enforcing the rule of law, but when those restraint and patience attitude are being taken for granted and/or taken advantaged of, the enforcement must than be swift and forcibly carried out.

[ggold]

So pray tell what do you need an arrest warrant for? Maybe it is a peaceful protest, people practising their democratic right to say what they think is wrong. Your a fascist, as you call them terrorists.

A peaceful protest? What about the democratic rights of the people who want to vote?

You are calling him a fascist, based on what? If a group of people taking hostage a whole city that is a terroristic act? Nothing against demonstrations nothing against strikes but blackmailing a government is not a democratic right.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

what about a government that pushes for an election when it is the only party that is standing for election, an election which will probably be cancelled as null and void due to lack of voters. Or do you expect that because PTP are the only party standing they will get all the votes, from all the electorate? lets face it the smaller parties won't make a showing as far as number of votes they get.

As for blackmailing a government? Is it not the government that are blackmailing everyone else if they don't get what they want. Besides it's not blackmail when protesters want to kick the government out. They are not saying give us this or else, they are saying enough to corruption and graft.

"what about a government that pushes for an election when it is the only party that is standing for election"

Actually there are 53 political parties registered to contest the election, but don't you worry about a little fact like that.

"Besides it's not blackmail when protesters want to kick the government out.They are not saying give us this or else, they are saying enough to corruption and graft."

The normal process of "kicking a government out" is achieved though taking part in an election.

The "blackmail" element comes into play when you refuse to do so, and then demand that Yingluck resigns, that the Shinawatra family en masse walk away from politics completely, that reforms take place before any election, that an unelected "peoples council" is put in place, that the royally decreed elections do not take place at all, that you impede peoples right to vote, etc

or do you think those are reasonable requests and not demands?

or do you think those are reasonable requests and not demands?

Quite reasonable considering that elections are being pushed for by a corrupt government, who are afraid to let reform come before elections, Or do you enjoy the blood sport every time these confrontations occur?

Elections that will be null and void because there aren't enough politicians to to open Parliament.