Thai northeast vows poll payback to Shinawatra clan

[Gweiloman]

Is the poster has less than 300 posts, more than likely, it will be pro PT/Thaksin/Red Shirt.

If 1,000 and more post, it will be critical of PT and Thaksin

I suspect we have a lot of new posters who get paid to spread a pro-PT and pro-Thaksin view.

Look at the three post above yours and the one after, some with as little as 20 posts. Not red.

But in a twist of irony, you're displaying the same kind of snobbism here on TV, rural Thais have been complaining of in every day life for years. That the "haves" know better and the "have nots" are paid. Congrats on unwillingly illustrating the root of the problem.

.

Of course I am a snob, but that's not the point.

The point is, am I getting paid to post here or not. I am not. But I suspect many new posters are. Compliments Mr. Amsterdam.

And I am not Thai, so hardly the root of the problem.

Why would any political party in Thailand pay anyone to post on a forum where the overwhelming majority of readers are unable to vote or have any influence on the political situation?

[SamMunich]

Wasn't the 30 Baht Healtrhcare program initiated by the Democrats?

No, the reform plan was opposed by the Chuan Leekpai government as unaffordable. This came as a considerable disappointment to a small group of senior experts in the MoPH who by about 2000 had devised a blueprint for a universal health coverage scheme, with funding channelled through primary care and capitation-based funding, though at that stage with no 30 baht co-payment. Paradoxically, many of the civil servants and medical professionals involved were natural Democrat supporters but they were unable to overcome the affordability argument, which seemed plausible in the wake of the 1997 Asian financial crisis, and also faced opposition from conservative elements who thought UHC would damage the private medical care sector (also affected badly by the recession).

...

Not knowing these intricacies of what went on behind the scene by the TRT folks I know that nearly all private hospitals, who had embraced the 30 Baht scheme, left it after one year. The governmental hospitals would have done the same, if they have had a chance to do so. In addition to the 30 Baht per visit, the hospital received something like 1,300+ Baht a year from the government for each registered patient. That was by far not enough to cover the cost of it and many hospitals went nearly broke with several hundred millions of Baht in the red within a short period.

In the end, the amount of health care given to "gold card" holders was reduced more and more and meanwhile many ailments are no more covered.

Most likely this financial inequity was the reason, why the democrats didn't give it the go-ahead. It had been in the making even before Taksin, but the democrats would not accept to launch a healthcare program, that would leave the government with a huge debt over no time.

This 30 Baht schme is a typical example of Taksin's policies: If it sounds good and promises to garner votes, he would have it launched. If it was not sustainable, never mind, the money would then come from other sources. That is the same as the rice morgage system: The money would have come from other sources, most likely from the money borrowed for the 2.3 trillion Baht infrastructure project. To bad, that the snap election made that impossible, as the infrastructure thing was to be put back into the drawer. And the farmers are still waiting for their promised money...

[FM505]

Brainwashed into believing that any positive development in their area is a result of Thaksin and PTP.

Or perhaps they had been lied to by other political parties for decades and got no investment in their areas but then Thaksin came along, said he would do something, and did it. No brain washing required, they just look around them and see what a difference Thaksin governments have made to their lives.

There have been many politicians and leaders from Issan who have no political ties to Thaksin or PTP and who have done a lot for the region. They just don't go around beating their chests and lying about it in order to gain some advantage .... or a few more billion.

Do tell...! Those many politicians and their noteworthy projects...

[soalbundy]

money money money money can't see the wood for the trees money money money money money money money money can't see the wood for the trees money money money money money money money money can't see the wood for the trees money money money money money money money money can't see the wood for the money money money money can't see the wood for the trees money money money money trees money money money money money money money money can't see the wood for the trees money money money money money money money money can't see the wood for the trees money money money money

You however are above such things. I presume that you, like the farmers in this country, got through life with little or no education, have been cheated and lied to by your political masters,have had to get by relying on your wits, physical hard labour and self reliance. Despite all this you, sanctimonious little man, would have refused the money and help from the one politician that looked briefly in your direction because you would have sensed that he was only doing it to help himself.

Your love of the cohesion of the country would have made you decide, let the good people of Bangkok live in comfort,i will allow myself to be ignored and i will live with my children in poverty so that they can eat my rice, after all we are only stupid buffaloes, we deserve nothing better. What a saint you are

[zydeco]

Is it just my impressions or can we predict the content of posts here by looking at the number of previous posts?

Is the poster has less than 300 posts, more than likely, it will be pro PT/Thaksin/Red Shirt.

If 1,000 and more post, it will be critical of PT and Thaksin

I suspect we have a lot of new posters who get paid to spread a pro-PT and pro-Thaksin view.

It's also interesting to see WHEN the newbies post. When most of us in Thailand are up and maybe looking at the news online and making a comment or two, the newbies appear to be just going off work. Wherever that may be.

[citizen33]

Most likely this financial inequity was the reason, why the democrats didn't give it the go-ahead. It had been in the making even before Taksin, but the democrats would not accept to launch a healthcare program, that would leave the government with a huge debt over no time.

The above is nearer the truth than the story others have posted about the UC Scheme being a Democrat invention. You mention detaill almost disparagingly,but the problem a lot of posters on TVF have is that they have very little idea what does happen outside the expat bubble.

How good the UC scheme is is another question. Many international experts think it isn't bad for a country at Thailand's stage of development.

e.g.

http://www.ilo.org/gimi/gess/RessShowRessource.do?ressourceId=28441

In an apparent paradox you will find that at least one anti-government poster in the political threads has praised the recent development whereby several westerners have successfully joined a similar public scheme for foreign residents (a sceheme which may or may not have been intended to be extended in this way). Of course, a new government wishing to curtail public spending is likely to curtail benefits for foreigners.

[Phatcharanan]

, they just look around them and see what a difference Thaksin governments have made to their lives.

Sure.......increasing household debt,

using loan sharks because the government can't pay them,

Lopburi farmers filing complaints to the police because they haven't been paid for 4 months,

Hospitals that pulled out of the 30 baht scheme coz it was bleeding them dry.

[Muhendis]

Ladies in the poorest villages remember the good things that Thaksin did to improve their lot and so they support him. They may have heard of the massive scale of corruption which also took tax payers money and placed it in the pockets of the elite but they don't give a toss about that because it has no effect on their lives. If Suthep's political party wants to win their hearts as Thaksin did then they must raise standards of living in the same way. Many of Thaksin's followers who grew rice will no longer vote for PTP until they are paid what is owed for the rice. What a shame the election is to be sabotaged. Yinluck has been given a reprieve and will probably use her extra time to pay the rice bill ready for the next election.

[love1012]

This kind of political organization whereby you organize your political base in an "us against them" strategy ..... creating anger and hate ... is a well worn strategy and one that Robert Amsterdam and other "consultants" for 3rd world elections is well known for.

Google 'Saul Alinsky' for some background. He invented this method of political organization ...... which Amsterdam and Thaksin have found so effective in Thailand.

Yes it won Thaksin the election and has made him a hero in the eyes of many of those brainwashed by his network of organizers.

It has also created this current division in Thailand which is killing people and causing so much heartache ... and basically ruining the future.

The political power base is founded on hatred and anger. JUst look at the Red Shirt movement. And use your brain.

Yes indeed Thaksin deserves all the credit for introducing this to ISSAN and for introducing this anger and hatred methodology to the political system in Thailand.

The long standing powers that be in Bangkok have rejected the expressed wishes and desires of the rural poor to be included in the country's economic development, looking down on them after having used and abused them for centuries into the present century.

Thailand has much natural wealth yet the wealthy and powerful insist on keeping it for themselves. The consequence is a large scale social movement by the colonized countryside population to be included rather than excluded, to be treated as fellow countrymen rather than as a colonized people.

The Bangkok elites have stopped throwing crumbs at the rural underclass and instead are throwing at them the army, the courts, the media and everything at their disposal to keep them locked out of the economy, society, political system and government. Now they've thrown the fascist Suthep and his storm troopers at them.

Your post exemplifies the dichotomization of the country along these lines while refusing to accept responsibility for the divide that it creates and magnifies, so I confront it and take you to task about it. The Bangkok elites could have peace, order, stability if they were willing, which they absolutely are not.

So they are going to have to stew in their own juices for as long as it takes one way or another.

what a foolish cliched post - can you name the bangkok elite? I bet none of them have as much money as your paymers stolen bollions!!

[gabruce]

Who shot Kwanchai? Another red gang?

by this point it seems probable that it was internal red politics - or a business dispute. If it were the protestors then everyone would know about it and the UDD and others would be on the air all the time making sure everyone knows. It's also possible that they don't know and the perpetrators got away clean.

[Spalpeen]

Is it just my impressions or can we predict the content of posts here by looking at the number of previous posts?

Is the poster has less than 300 posts, more than likely, it will be pro PT/Thaksin/Red Shirt.

If 1,000 and more post, it will be critical of PT and Thaksin

I suspect we have a lot of new posters who get paid to spread a pro-PT and pro-Thaksin view.

It's also interesting to see WHEN the newbies post. When most of us in Thailand are up and maybe looking at the news online and making a comment or two, the newbies appear to be just going off work. Wherever that may be.

.

I also noticed that many of the yellow shirt apologists have more than 10,000 posts. I concluded from this that they are internet obsessives who sit hunched over a keyboard all day with no knowledge of the world outside the curtains. I also noticed that some of the new anti democracy posters who have mysteriously appeared within the last two weeks claim to be Thai nationals, but are obviously not.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Spalpeen

[Publicus]

Brainwashed into believing that any positive development in their area is a result of Thaksin and PTP.

.

Naked racist contempt for the rural people of Thailand. Very surprised to see a ThaiVisa moderator 'liking' a comment that sneers at the intelligence of millions of Thai people. Very surprised indeed.

Racist? Same country, same nationality. Can't you do any better than the overuse of the trendy 'you racist' nonsense?

The mod's statement struck me too but not for any racism - that is, I don't necessarily or at all see any racism in it. It wrongly suggests gullibility, naivete'; perhaps susceptibility, being a bumpkin etc, but not necessarily racism.

And your choice of the word "trendy" certainly is bad diction, which is standard stuff from you but mild rhetoric compared to your consistent OTT bombast.

Then there's the poster who flat out stated that (fat) fahlang alone and singlehandedly have completely transformed the socioeconomics of Issan by marrying Thais up there, which is another whopper of a (big) belly laugh.

So it's just another day at TVF but then again we're just now entering the prime time hours so as ever I'm looking forward to more rich stuff from our ex, er, distinguished members before clocking out to cut some Z 's for the night.

[firestar]

What a shame the election is to be sabotaged. Yinluck has been given a reprieve and will probably use her extra time to pay the rice bill ready for the next election.

The elections are being sabotage for the exact opposite reason.

A government cannot be formed until all seats are filled, the very friendly PDRC election commissioner Somchai will drag out by-elections for months, leaving Thailand with a caretaker government that can't pass a budget and has no access to bond markets all countries rely on for financing. Yellow camp can then turn around and say Yingluck didn't pay the farmers

[gjoo888]

"When you take money from Peter to pay Paul, you'll always get Paul's vote."

[BuddyPinkham]

In 2010, scores died in an army crackdown in central Bangkok on a Red Shirt rally against the previous government, which came to power by parliamentary vote after the courts ousted Thaksin's allies

It still amazes me that the media ONLY publishes this but never mentions the millions of dollars stolen from ATM's and all the millions of dollars of destruction that the REDS did during that time buy burning down so many buildings etc.

[soalbundy]

The Trut

Yeah,those truts are a pest, i saw two in the garden last night.

[tilac2]

This New York Times story should be a separate thread, but here it is anyway, with my summary/comments following.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/29/world/asia/thai-aristocrat-sides-with-the-poor.html

Now here's the kind of Thai aristocrat I can admire:

Malinee Chakrabandhu is a direct descendent of King Mongkut (Rama IV), and she is extremely loyal to the current King and the Crown Prince. But she is also a redshirt sympathiser; praises Thaksin's universal healthcare system and help for the provinces; and says there was corruption before and after Thaksin.

She supports the "Respect My Vote" campaign (see her picture in the article), describes Suthep's proposed unelected council as a “council of dogs” and calls his protesters who are blocking elections “power-seeking thieves".

Oh yes!

[Muhendis]

Who shot Kwanchai? Another red gang?

by this point it seems probable that it was internal red politics - or a business dispute. If it were the protestors then everyone would know about it and the UDD and others would be on the air all the time making sure everyone knows. It's also possible that they don't know and the perpetrators got away clean.

That is a possibility that had occurred to me also. I can't remember the names of the groups who were listed as unhappy about him but there were at least five so take your pick

[Muhendis]

What a shame the election is to be sabotaged. Yinluck has been given a reprieve and will probably use her extra time to pay the rice bill ready for the next election.

The elections are being sabotage for the exact opposite reason.

A government cannot be formed until all seats are filled, the very friendly PDRC election commissioner Somchai will drag out by-elections for months, leaving Thailand with a caretaker government that can't pass a budget and has no access to bond markets all countries rely on for financing. Yellow camp can then turn around and say Yingluck didn't pay the farmers

Yes. I thought that as I pressed the send key. Fingers faster than brain?

Also paying the rice farmers (or not) will quite likely not make too much difference in the north east since there are plenty of other Thaksinites to ensure the local PTP candidate gets first past the post.

[soalbundy]

This kind of political organization whereby you organize your political base in an "us against them" strategy ..... creating anger and hate ... is a well worn strategy and one that Robert Amsterdam and other "consultants" for 3rd world elections is well known for.

Google 'Saul Alinsky' for some background. He invented this method of political organization ...... which Amsterdam and Thaksin have found so effective in Thailand.

Yes it won Thaksin the election and has made him a hero in the eyes of many of those brainwashed by his network of organizers.

It has also created this current division in Thailand which is killing people and causing so much heartache ... and basically ruining the future.

The political power base is founded on hatred and anger. JUst look at the Red Shirt movement. And use your brain.

Yes indeed Thaksin deserves all the credit for introducing this to ISSAN and for introducing this anger and hatred methodology to the political system in Thailand.

The long standing powers that be in Bangkok have rejected the expressed wishes and desires of the rural poor to be included in the country's economic development, looking down on them after having used and abused them for centuries into the present century.

Thailand has much natural wealth yet the wealthy and powerful insist on keeping it for themselves. The consequence is a large scale social movement by the colonized countryside population to be included rather than excluded, to be treated as fellow countrymen rather than as a colonized people.

The Bangkok elites have stopped throwing crumbs at the rural underclass and instead are throwing at them the army, the courts, the media and everything at their disposal to keep them locked out of the economy, society, political system and government. Now they've thrown the fascist Suthep and his storm troopers at them.

Your post exemplifies the dichotomization of the country along these lines while refusing to accept responsibility for the divide that it creates and magnifies, so I confront it and take you to task about it. The Bangkok elites could have peace, order, stability if they were willing, which they absolutely are not.

So they are going to have to stew in their own juices for as long as it takes one way or another.

what a foolish cliched post - can you name the bangkok elite? I bet none of them have as much money as your paymers stolen bollions!!

Made sense to me. Unfortunately your reply was hard to understand ,Who is this Paymers and what are these bollions that he stole, i presume they are worth a lot a lot of money

[jollyman]

This girl will save Thailand fine woman, fine brain keep going PM

In Mongolia we have a proverb:

"He who steps in a cow pat with his left foot, will inherit the earth" ( I have no idea what it means)

[thaigold]

Picture yourself as an uneducated farmer down from the Isaan, full in the knowledge that your elected government was removed by a Bangkok mob. Also, possibly this is your first visit to Krungthep - in your eyes this is a golden city of opulence and excess. You might even feel a sense of despair, since your leaders have told you that this "City of Angels" was built on the backs of the poor.

You also wonder if it is true, that great swathes of real estate in the very area you stand are worth billions of dollars. Your leaders, some who have been educated in a places called England and America, say that the elite who disenfranchised you could have years ago built a water system in the Isaan so you could bring rice to market twice a year, and have water in abundance.

You may recall that your own daughter, who married and went to live in a town called Los Angeles, says her husband told her Los Angeles is really a desert, but the Farang ran long pipes to a river hundreds of miles away to bring water to this town called LA. You think; the Mekong River is just kilometers from our village. I know we Thais are smarter than the Farang. Why didn't these people who stole my vote do the same for us, the Thai people?

Some say Khun Thaksin is an evil man, but how can that be? He came to our village. He tried to help us, but they say he is bad because he bought votes. But I see all the politicians buying votes. Why do these big people hate him so much? My daughter, in this town called LA, says that is the way democracy works. You vote for the politician who will get you things. She says it's the way the guy they call the "Terminator" got elected to the big office in California. I really like that guy Arnalt...Swartser.

Our leaders say we must keep protesting, otherwise these big people will keep stealing from the poor. My son who is in the university in Khon Kaen says the Thai people must keep struggling for democracy; otherwise nothing will change for the poor. That's why I must protest in this "City of Angeles."

Our leaders say the big people say we are stupid and uneducated and that our votes are not as good as these big people. I know these people are liars and that we are all Thai people. I also know our father loves every Thai - he has said so - that is why I must stay here, even though I hate this city. It has no heart, no soul, only money and expensive cars. Our father and Lord Buddha are on my side.

Long live our King.

Edited January 31, 2014 by ubonjoe
changed font color and standard font

[rreddin]

Brainwashed into believing that any positive development in their area is a result of Thaksin and PTP.

Get off you arse and come to Isaan and talk to local people. Do it today istead of making assenine comments about people you do not know or understand. They are not brainwashed. They have a right to be aggrieved about the historic lack of government expenditure in their region, but 74% of all government expenditure is still in the greater Bangkok area. Do you think spending 76% of the wealth of the country on, what 20% of the popluation, is equitable? Before Thaksin, the ratio was much more skewed in favour of Bangkok.

[Mosha]

Brainwashed into believing that any positive development in their area is a result of Thaksin and PTP.

Oh, and what was the positive development for these people during the Democrat regime? It's always simple to say people were "brainwashed" than to admit your party's political principles and policies were failures to gain wide spread support of the public. Easier to say the public is just dumb and easily swayed by lies.

I'd call getting paid for the rice a positive step, wouldn't you?

[PatOngo]

"Residents rattle through a list of Thaksin's good deeds that have transformed their fortunes, including rice farming subsidies"

Surely this is a pss take. Nobody can be this dim.

Don't bet on it.

[badmedicine]

Speaking to AFP from his hospital bed, where he is under 24-hour armed guard, Kwanchai predicted Puea Thai would sweep to victory on Sunday.

Er, well obviously, being as the opposition aren't contesting it.

Edited January 31, 2014 by badmedicine

[3NUMBAS]

of course, theyre the choice to boost them out of poverty and try to even the playing field a little .but even so the rich get richer and they get poorer despite the best efforts of the shins

[ShannonT]

I can't believe that Thaivisa is accepting advertising dollars from political parties with these popups! Party 15 is PTP? Geez. Guess we know who owns Thaivisa?

Thai Visa has no control over these ads, these ads are created by adsense. Thai Visa does not receive any revenue from these ads.

Surely thaivisa must receive something indirectly if it is popping it up on their site? Is there any way for the ads to be removed? Quite annoying.

Go out and support one of the pro-election rallies. The sooner the election can be completed and it's over, the sooner your ads will disappear. If Suthep keeps blocking the elections for months to come, I guess the popups won't go away.

[piete121]

Wasn't the 30 Baht Healtrhcare program initiated by the Democrats?

No, the original 30 baht scheme was another wonder of Thaksin. That likely would have bankrupted the health system.

The Democrats actually made it free - but the Red Shirts in 2010 were actually saying they wanted the 30 baht scheme because they didn't want to be seen as poor.

[Mosha]

Wasn't the 30 Baht Healtrhcare program initiated by the Democrats?

No, the original 30 baht scheme was another wonder of Thaksin. That likely would have bankrupted the health system.

The Democrats actually made it free - but the Red Shirts in 2010 were actually saying they wanted the 30 baht scheme because they didn't want to be seen as poor.

I still think I'm near the bulls eye,

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/700936-thai-northeast-vows-poll-payback-to-shinawatra-clan/#entry7373569