24 Million People To Be Put Into The Social Security System

[Jai Dee]

The Labour Ministry plans to put 24 million people under the social security system

The Labour Ministry wants to draw 24 million people outside the formal workforce into the social security system.

Pairoj Suksamrit (ไพโรจน์ สุขสัมฤทธิ์), secretary-general of the Social Security Office (SSO), said the ministry will discuss with the Public Health Ministry today the possibility of putting those people now eligible for the 30-baht health care service under the social security system.

Mr. Pairoj said about 300,000 of those 24 million people, 200,000 of them sex workers and the rest, taxi and motorcycle taxi drivers, have expressed interest in joining the program.

He said those people will be required to contribute 100 baht a month to the Social Security Fund for welfare benefits in 4 areas which are child bearing, death, sickness and disablement.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 24 May 2006

[sriracha john]

Is this a roundabout way of admitting the 30 baht health scam... errrr, I mean scheme... is a failure?

[ovenman]

Is this a roundabout way of admitting the 30 baht health scam... errrr, I mean scheme... is a failure?

Or perhaps a roundabout way of buying votes?

[hammered]

Is this a roundabout way of admitting the 30 baht health scam... errrr, I mean scheme... is a failure?

Or perhaps a roundabout way of buying votes?

Both.

Giving people things on the cheap is great for winning elections. Almost free health care with no tax increase. Tax cuts. Social security for almost free and more tax cuts. However, it is not the responsible approach a government should take. One day it will all have to be paid for which mens future tax increases or selling off every national asset possible.

[Plus]

Social Security is exactly that - social security. Medical benefits are only part of it. People covered by the scheme will be entitled to pensions, for example. Or they can opt for a lump sum payment instead.

It's good if they manage to cover people outside legal employment by SS - it's better than nothing they have now (apart from 30 baht scheme).

Having said that, all management and operations of SS should be made accountable and transparent. At the moment the amont of contributions and benefits are decided by by top bosses without any input from the paying public. It appears that they run SS as their private enterprise but instead of wooing customers they just order everyone to pay up. Any resistance is illegal.

[ando]

I don't know if the proposed schemes are economically sustainable in the long term or not, so I'm not commenting on those technicalities. A lot of western nations have got themselves into a mess trying to organize social security and health care plans, so I expect Thailand will stumble through the same process over the next few decades too. But I do believe the basic principle is much needed. An there is no better time to start than right now. Thailands birth rate is gradually declining along with most other countries around the world. In the past and for many still, it is the extended family that provides the safety net for the sick, elderly and mothers with kids. The old extended family set up is gradually disappearing and being replaced with the western style nuclear family unit. Some of todays young healthy people are going to need some government support in the future if they don't have the extended family to fall back on. Now is a very good time to start planning for the future. And of course such plans need to be funded some how. Either through taxation or by direct contribution, but most likely a combination of both (which appears to be the way Thailand is going about it here). I hope they learn from the mistakes of some of the more developed nations and get it right.

[Jai Dee]

A labour leader demands serious government action in implementging its new social security protection plan

A labour leader warns the government must not let its plan to provide social security protection for 24 million people outside the formal workforce become an empty election campaign pledge.

Wilaiwan sae Tia (วิไลวรรณ แซ่เตีย), president of the Thai Labour Solidarity Committee, said she agreed with the plan but was now concerned the government may just want to canvass for votes. Ms. Wilaiwan said she hoped the government itself would contribute to the fund.

Under the plan disclosed by the Social Security Office, these people would be required to contribute 100 baht a month to the Social Security Fund and get welfare benefits.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 25 May 2006

[ovenman]

A labour leader warns the government must not let its plan to provide social security protection for 24 million people outside the formal workforce become an empty election campaign pledge.

Another vote for a roundabout way of buying votes.

[ando]

A labour leader warns the government must not let its plan to provide social security protection for 24 million people outside the formal workforce become an empty election campaign pledge.

Another vote for a roundabout way of buying votes.

I have to disagree there.

A basic social security safety net and basic medical care within the ability of the nation to afford it is certainly not an unreasonable election topic in a civilized society.

The concept has been proposed and quite obviously has widespread support among the voters.

I think it is a good thing, even if there are some finance hiccups along the way. The people are now aware that such things are now possible to some degree at least. Future governments and political parties will have to realize that in order to gain government they will have to come up with policies that are supported by the majority of voters.

Call it vote buying or call it democratic humanitarian progress. I guess the difference depends on how much money one has in Thailand.

[Plus]

It's a vote buying with legitimate purpose. Perhaps more legitimate than one million baht or SML scheme, but nevertheless. Thaksin has been doing this for years.

We haven't seen the end of it yet. It's time to make more promises, outrageous promises, unbelievably good promises.

[elGrande]

Mr. Pairoj said about 300,000 of those 24 million people, 200,000 of them sex workers and the rest, taxi and motorcycle taxi drivers, have expressed interest in joining the program.

So only BG's and taxi drivers will pay. Sounds like a sex tax.

300,000 is only 1.25% of 24 million. That means they will surely have enough funds each month to fund the system 0.0125 x 100 baht = 1.25 baht / month.

They must have gotten an old copy of the states social security plan.

[penzman]

Mr T's back and it sure didn't take long to come up with more vote buying tatics.

[ovenman]

It's a vote buying with legitimate purpose. Perhaps more legitimate than one million baht or SML scheme, but nevertheless. Thaksin has been doing this for years.

That's the way I see it, too. That something can be both vote buying and a good idea conceptually is not mutually exclusive.

We haven't seen the end of it yet. It's time to make more promises, outrageous promises, unbelievably good promises.

I am waiting to hear once again, how the SkyTrain is going to be extended clear out to Nakhon Pathom if TRT is re-elected (when they can't even get it across the river to Thonburi).

[ando]

I have to wonder if some people here will still call it vote buying when The Democrats finally catch up with Thaksin and put forward their own version of a new social security/ medical care system?

A good idea is a good idea no matter who thought of it first. The opposition is never going to out poll Thaksin if they continue to focus on the elite city minority and the old days of political change via revolution. Thaksin may be a bit dodgey, but he is winning simply because he he is reading the game and playing by the most basic of democratic rules in attracting the most votes. While the Democrats are distracted trying to get into power through action in the courts, Thaksin is going out there and winning more support. Time the Democrats got out there too and gave the people some reason why they should vote for them.

[Thaising]

The 30-baht health care scheme might have run out of money, that why this crooks government is proposing the scheme this indirectly tapping into the fund of social security as well as vote getting.

Edited May 25, 2006 by Thaising

[Plus]

... he is reading the game and playing by the most basic of democratic rules in attracting the most votes. While the Democrats are distracted trying to get into power through action in the courts, Thaksin is going out there and winning more support.

I completely agree, though if he really played by the rules he wouldn't be where he is now (or rather was a week ago).

Thaksin is clearly pitching majority against law. If he gets enough votes, he reasons, laws won't apply to him anymore. That's a very dangerous way to run the country. Incindentally, HM aksed the courts to uphold the law, not to follow the 67% who voted TRT on April 2.

We are in for a big big clash if Thaksin continues what he's doing.

Back to Social Security. You talk about it like it already happened, or it's really a some new scheme. Here are the quotes from the OP:

The Labour Ministry wants to draw 24 million people.... the ministry will discuss with the Public Health Ministry today the possibility of....

There is a SS law and the contributions depend on one's salary and are capped at 750 baht. He can't just charge people a 100 baht at will.

His idea doesn't have any leg to stand on, he apparently hasn't done any research of any kind, but it sounds good to gullible voters.

That's why it's a disguised vote buying and not an actual policy, or even a proposal.

[meom]

There is a SS law and the contributions depend on one's salary and are capped at 750 baht. He can't just charge people a 100 baht at will.

I could be wrong here but I would guess that the employer also contributes (maybe 450 baht ?) which would make the total contribution 1200 baht. This new idea would be applicable to people which are basically self employed (taxi drivers etc) so in that case 100 baht/month would make sense.

[sriracha john]

Further evidence that it's vote buying... if the TRT govt. is so quick to deny it, then most likely it is:

Ministers agree to extend social security fund

The labour and public health ministers yesterday agreed to extend the Social Security Fund to cover 15.5 million ''non-mainstream'' workers, despite doubts from critics. ''The move is not meant to seek votes or support populist policies before a new election,'' said caretaker Public Health Minister Phinij Jarusombat after a meeting with caretaker Labour Minister Somsak Thepsuthin. The two are leading members of the Thai Rak Thai party, which will face a tough challenge in the new election after the April 2 poll was nullified by the Constitution Court and Central Administrative Court due to its unusually rapid polling and the illegitimate positioning of ballot booths.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/26May2006_news17.php

----------------------------

Interesting also to note that they've already lopped off 8.5 million potential coverers (from the original 24 down to 15.5 million)

[Plus]

Meom, yes, one part is contributions from employees - 3% (capped at 750 baht), another is contributions from employers, the same amount.

They will need to completely overhaul the law if they want to just collect 100 baht from self-employed people.

It's a can of worms. Why 100 baht? It's equal to 3% from employed people earning 3,000 per month. Noodle venders and taxi drivers earn substantially more than that, yet will contribute less. Why?

From the fund's point of view 100 baht is equal to total contributions from employers and the employees on 1,500 baht salaries, which don't even exist. Why some people will pay flat contributions while others pay 3% of their income?

Is it even possible to run the scheme on 100 baht? They aren't taking a few hundred more people, they are talking 15 or 24 million - that is probably twice the number of people that the fund covers now.

It appears that the actual "policy" is at the stage of "it would be nice if....".

[sriracha john]

Meom, yes, one part is contributions from employees - 3% (capped at 750 baht), another is contributions from employers, the same amount.

They will need to completely overhaul the law if they want to just collect 100 baht from self-employed people.

It's a can of worms. Why 100 baht? It's equal to 3% from employed people earning 3,000 per month. Noodle venders and taxi drivers earn substantially more than that, yet will contribute less. Why?

From the fund's point of view 100 baht is equal to total contributions from employers and the employees on 1,500 baht salaries, which don't even exist. Why some people will pay flat contributions while others pay 3% of their income?

Is it even possible to run the scheme on 100 baht? They aren't taking a few hundred more people, they are talking 15 or 24 million - that is probably twice the number of people that the fund covers now.

It appears that the actual "policy" is at the stage of "it would be nice if....".

"insert graphic representation here":

Edited May 26, 2006 by sriracha john

[meom]

It appears that the actual "policy" is at the stage of "it would be nice if....".

You're probably right and I guess any scheme, genuine or not, proposed by either party prior to the elections will be considered vote buying anyway.

[Jai Dee]

15.5 million people to be put under social security system

The Labour and Public Health ministries will work together in putting 15.5 million people outside the formal workforce under the social security system.

Caretaker Labour Minister Somsak Thepsuthin (สมศักดิ์ เทพสุทิน) said the targets were to extend social security coverage to 1 million of those people in 2007 and another 1.5 million in 2008.

These new subscribers would have to contribute 100 baht a month or 1,200 baht a year to the Social Security Fund for sickness, child bearing, disablement and death benefits, Mr. Somsak said. Registration would be opened on February 1, 2007.

Caretaker Public Health Minister Pinit Charusombat (พินิจ จารุสมบัติ) denied the government was trying to shift its medical care burden to the Social Security office. Mr. Pinit said the 30-baht medical treatment scheme would still be continued.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 May 2006

[ando]

It appears that the actual "policy" is at the stage of "it would be nice if....".

You're probably right and I guess any scheme, genuine or not, proposed by either party prior to the elections will be considered vote buying anyway.

Any move, by any party, at any time in the next few decades to improve social security for the masses of Thailand's relative poor is going to be a vote winner. At the same time, unfulfilled promises re social security wont gain a lot of support for the offending party next time around. Its a process Thailand has to go through just as the developed democratic west have and indeed still are. The aging population and decline of the extended family safety net is going to start to affect Thailand soon and the time for planning is now. Government and or employer subsidizing of self funded retirement and medical costs seems to be a sensible place to start.

[Jai Dee]

Labour minister Somsak Thepsuthin backs the idea of the Social Security Office being autonomous

Caretaker Labour Minister Somsak Thepsuthin (สมศักดิ์ เทพสุทิน) supports the idea of making the Social Security Office (SSO) an independent organization.

Mr. Somsak said he had no objection to suggestions of academics and labour leaders that SSO should be autonomous but he had to see first if that would be possible under the law.

SSO secretary-general Pairoj Suksamrit (ไพโรจน์ สุขสัมฤทธิ์) said changing SSO status would not be easy. Mr. Pairoj cited a study by Thammasat University’s faculty of economics as saying that SSO could hardly become an independent body because the social security system is a state-run welfare protection where the government itself has to contribute the Social Security Fund.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 08 June 2006

[Jai Dee]

Employees may be allowed to cut their contributions to the Social Security Fund

The Social Security Office (SSO) plans to reduce contributions of low-income employees for sickness, disablement, child bearing and death benefits to the Social Security Fund from 1.5% of their salaries to 1%.

SSO Secretary-General Pairoj Suksamrit (ไพโรจน์ สุขสัมฤทธิ์) said the plan, to be presented to the SSO board for consideration on June 15th, would cause annual contributions to the Fund to reduce by seven billion baht.

Mr. Pairoj said the SSO is negotiating with several banks to help cut lending interest rates for fund subscribers and 330,000 employers in retail businesses to give fund subscribers discounts in buying their goods.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 09 June 2006