I am a 28 years old father of a 2 months thai child, but i am not married to the mother.

I stay in thailand for 20 months now, 12 months on ed visa, one double entry visa from vientiane and i go 2 times at mae sai for exemption.

Now that my thai children is born, i choose to go to kuala lumpur on january 28 for a new O visa, based on thai children.

When we go inside the embassy, many people where told that they cant have a visa, they denied many people, maybe 40 or 50%. I dont know exactly what kind of visa they requested but its the first time i listen so many people denied, i go 2 times in vientiane and never see like this before.

I had all papers ready, original and copy (born certificate with my name, copy of house book of mother and children...), my girlfriend stay with me and she prepare a paper asking for a visa for stay with her and the baby and I had copy of bank statement with 500k+ bath.

They not look at paper, just asking "you have paper of wedding?". Of course we dont have cause we are not marriedand we re not asking for a marriage visa... My girlfriend try to explain, then the girl at the counter ask another girl behind and she answered "we give to you tourist visa for going wedding, if next time no wedding, no visa".

They just take 110rm and a picture for this visa, nothing else.

They give us a paper with visa requirement, and its written for spouse OR dependant and the paper needed. I try to show the girl that its written "OR" and under for thai children they need a thai birth certificate. She just answer that we need birth certificate AND marriage paper...

I think kuala lumpur is not a good place for have a visa.

Its better to avoid this place for vientiane or savanaket.

I feel realy bad about this story cause its like thai immigration dont want a family stay together if they re not married.

I not asking for working in this country, just to stay with my family and spend money from my home country, but no, its look like its too much for them.

And no, i will not wedding for the moment, for many personal reason.

Anyway in 6 months we will move to france (my home country) where the mother can stay and have a visa without any special requirement, just because she is mother of my child and its better we stay together without immigration problems.

With a baby we cannot go outside thailand every 2 or 3 months because they refuse to give a visa... So "mai pen rai", we will spend money in another place.

Its realy look like more and more thailand not want foreigner to stay.

Edited February 4, 201412 yr by AlexE

Savanakeht would be the best place, KL is currently very strict as you noticed yourself.

Best is to legitimize the child as yours, through the courts and you cna get extensions of stay based on your child with 400,000 in the bank. Legitimizing the child would make you the legal father 9and give you parental rights), being o the birth certificate is not enough.

You will not get multiple entry visa at any nearby location unless you legitimize your parenthood or get married. See this topic: How To Gain Parental Rights As A Father

You could get a single entry non-o.

As you were not married to the mother at time of birth you are not the legal father of the child.

Please legitimize your child.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/381917-how-to-gain-parental-rights-as-a-father/

Even with the child being legitimate, they will not give a visa in kuala lumpur.

They not look at the paper we had, they not asked if child were legitimate or not, in fact they not care anything after we say that we are not married.

They just say "wedding paper next time, or no visa".

I feel lucky they give me a tourist visa this time, cause many people were refuse even a tourist visa.

I only asked for a single entry O, that they denied.

Anywhere its written that a child have to be legitimate for obtain a single O.

They give me a paper that show a birth certificate and copy of house book and 100 000 bath is enough for a single O but them say "OR" mean "AND", so have a children will not give me a visa if i am not married.

So what is written in the paper they give to me and what they asking in true is not same.

KL just being tough now to get any visa.

Most embassies and consulates will do a single entry without being the legal father of a child.

You can get a 60 day extension at immigration to visit your child without the legitimization documents.

"I feel realy bad about this story cause its like thai immigration dont want a family stay together if they re not married."

You weren't dealing with immigration.

Read the last sentence in post # 6.

You can blame those around you, the system or the government or all 3 but that isn't going to help solve your problem. The biggest problem here is that the Thai authorities and yourself are communicating with one another in a language that is neither of your native languages. I think you will continue to have problems getting a Non O visa based on supporting your child. All the rules don't translate directly to simple easily understood English. It's a fairly difficult thing to do. Getting a Non O for marriage is also not easy, especially if you decide to be emotional with immigration officials. You have to look like a real family, a real husband and father, otherwise the officers will find a way to deny you. This is coming from someone who has lived 11 yrs in Thailand, has had many different visas including Non O and in the past I was once denied a one year extension although I had a job paying 60 000 baht a month at that time. Paperwork produced by Thai immigration allowed me the extension, but the officer denied anyway. I got a tourist, then Non B, and waited a while. Now I have a Non O based on my Thai wife just extended for the second year.

Good luck, seriously if you want this type of visa it looks to me like you have a ways to go before appearing to be a real father, real husband or real family to Thai immigration officials.

Embassy staff and Immigration officials have the right to use their discretion and because so many people abuse the system ( and brag about it on Thai Visa) they are becoming increasingly strict.

They told you what would be required next time. No foreigner has some inalienable right to a visa to enter Thailand any more than any foreigner would have some unspecified right to enter your home country. You have the right to marry or not marry and they have the right to issue a visa or not. Nobody asked you to come to Thailand and to get your girlfriend pregnant. Play by their application of the rules or accept the consequences.

Edited February 4, 201412 yr by Suradit69

Removed a post in a language other that English. Forum rules do not allow this.

You got a lot of information now..... You had good experiences at other embassy/consulates, so it's not the whole system. I understand that these sudden changes are sometimes annoying and very inconvenient but every Embassy got the right, to have their own rules. For many years K.L. was the place to go but now it isn't anymore - after years of having a one year multiple entry Non B visa from there, I was suddenly denied.... nothing to change about that - we all need to figure out from time to time which is the best way to get our visas or extensions!!! If you really want it, because you love the country and wish to stay, you'll find a way....

Good luck!!

Not every consulate ever gave a visa based on children, and some that did now aren't. So you might need to get married - as might I. That said, you could apply for a triple entry tourist visa then apply at immigration to change the type of visa - though no doubt that will work better when Chang Wattana is fully operational.

As you were not married to the mother at time of birth you are not the legal father of the child.

Please legitimize your child.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/381917-how-to-gain-parental-rights-as-a-father/

You don't need to be married to the mother to be the legal father.

As you were not married to the mother at time of birth you are not the legal father of the child.

Please legitimize your child.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/381917-how-to-gain-parental-rights-as-a-father/

You don't need to be married to the mother to be the legal father.

The only way to be the legal father other than marriage to go through the courts and gain parenthood through legitimization.

For some things you might be considered the father but for multiple entry non-o visas and one year extensions of stay you have to have the legitimization done.

You don't need to be married to the mother to be the legal father.

Correct, but as said in that case you need to legitimize the child. Being on the birth certificate doesn't make you the legal father.

You don't need to be married to the mother to be the legal father.

Correct, but as said in that case you need to legitimize the child. Being on the birth certificate doesn't make you the legal father.

To further help the OP to understand, perhaps it is better to write this:

In Thailand, if you are not married to the child's mother, then under Thai Law you must go to court and petition to become the child's Legal Father, even if your name is already listed as 'Father' on the child's birth certificate.

That statement is also not entirely correct, as when the child is old enough you also have the option of going to the amphur to legitimize the child. The amphur will then ask the mother and child to confirm this and if so you become the legal father.

Or you marry the mother and become the legal father. See the topic Ubonjoe linked to,

"I think kuala lumpur is not a good place for have a visa."

Yes, but a bit late ! You did not have Internet and did not know this forum before wasting your time in Malaysia ?

You would get your visa in Laos, no doubt.

What a chance for a Thai to live in France where she will never be able to understand and speak the language...

Wish you good lucky anyway <3

Edited February 4, 201412 yr by thailandbeachisland

A off topic and derogatory post has been removed.

That statement is also not entirely correct, as when the child is old enough you also have the option of going to the amphur to legitimize the child. The amphur will then ask the mother and child to confirm this and if so you become the legal father.

Or you marry the mother and become the legal father. See the topic Ubonjoe linked to,

Thanks for that qualification.

As the OP's child is only two months old, I did not feel it was germane to his situation to mention that some Amphoes will directly register a father as the legal father of a child aged over 7 without court petition papers being filed first, but with the child's support.

I was trying to emphasise the key issue that I find is most often misunderstood by unmarried foreign fathers of children with Thai mothers.

In my home country, not being married to the childs mother, but being on the child's birth certificate does make you the legal father of the child.

Many unmarried western fathers of Thai children that I meet here do not appreciate the far reaching fact that they are not recognised under Thai Law as the Legal Father just because they are named on their child's birth certificate per se.

A off topic post and derogatory post has post has been removed.

You don't need to be married to the mother to be the legal father.

Correct, but as said in that case you need to legitimize the child. Being on the birth certificate doesn't make you the legal father.

Hi,

Last week, my daughter, who has Thai nationality, applied for a Thai passport for her son. Even though she isn't married to the father, the passport office insisted that he be there to sign the passport application.

If, as you say above, being on the birth certificate doesn't make you the legal father then I'm left wondering why they insisted on his signature?

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm genuinely posing the question and know from seeing previous posts on here that you and Ubonjoe know what you are talking about.

Was this just another case of the government official deciding on what the rules are?

Here is what the rules say for a Thai passport application for a child under 15 years old.

If the applicant was born to parents who did not sign a marriage certificate, only the mother of the applicant can sign the parental consent form. She will need to bring a letter guaranteeing sole guardianship issued by her domicile district office (Por Kor 14) accompanied by her ID Card which must bear the title Miss.

If the applicant was born to parents who did not sign a marriage certificate, the father of the applicant cannot sign the parental consent form alone unless there is a court order granting sole guardianship to the father.

Source: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21479-Requirements-for-the-Ordinary-e-Passports-Applicat.html

As I said before for many purposes a fathers parenthood is recognized. There are many Thai's that have never registered their marriage but their children can inherit their property and etc.

The MFA for certain visas and immigration for one year extensions have decided and made rules that legitimization is needed unless married.

Hi,

Last week, my daughter, who has Thai nationality, applied for a Thai passport for her son. Even though she isn't married to the father, the passport office insisted that he be there to sign the passport application.

If, as you say above, being on the birth certificate doesn't make you the legal father then I'm left wondering why they insisted on his signature?

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm genuinely posing the question and know from seeing previous posts on here that you and Ubonjoe know what you are talking about.

Was this just another case of the government official deciding on what the rules are?

The passport office goes by what is on the birth certificate, but if you show with form Por Khor 14 that you have sole parental rights you can sign the application form yourself.

Well... Suradit69 your statement about coming here to LOS and becoming a father was a bit tough! However, I agree with you on the first part of your post. The thing I find disturbing is the fact that immigration officers seemed to have way too much power regarding their 'discretion'. They seem to paint us Farangs as bastards de-flowering their Thai women and not being worthy of any further interest. I agree that presentation is a key... showing yourselves as a 'real family' (whatever that is these days) is a good idea. But short of inviting the officer into your home and/or bringing a mountain of pictures what can one do? Also the Op says that he has 500K worth of baht in the bank and that he comes from France. That means that he has 11,279 Euros available. Good for him and shame that the officer did not take that into consideration... 'real Thai families' do not have that sort of money... so why the denial? Double standard? Sure. But we long timers are used to dealing with them... and the Tea money that greases the wheels. But still it is wrong to have denied him. Stupid really, as is the Visa Run, which does nothing more for Thailand except get people to spend money in other countries and not in Thai. I hate VTE and would rather spend for the travel, hotel, food, time, taxis, etc here at 'home'. It is all just stupid!

There is no double standerd, (only regarding the income requirements there is). You either are the (legal) father of the child or you are not. In OP's case he is not and thus does not qualify, as he would not in many if not most other countries. He has the option of becoming the legal father and getting a visa based on his child and extensions of stay.

hello all

i am thinking to buy condo in pataya but i heard that i can have only turrist visa

what will happand if visa refuse to extand and my property in pataya i have no visa?

any advice sorry about little spelling mistake

Regarding Post #25 It is all just stupid! The Kingdom maybe does not want to have in place a policy that might encourage out-of-wedlock children for Visa and/or Immigration purposes.

Edited February 5, 201412 yr by JLCrab

Here is what the rules say for a Thai passport application for a child under 15 years old.

If the applicant was born to parents who did not sign a marriage certificate, only the mother of the applicant can sign the parental consent form. She will need to bring a letter guaranteeing sole guardianship issued by her domicile district office (Por Kor 14) accompanied by her ID Card which must bear the title Miss.

If the applicant was born to parents who did not sign a marriage certificate, the father of the applicant cannot sign the parental consent form alone unless there is a court order granting sole guardianship to the father.

Source: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21479-Requirements-for-the-Ordinary-e-Passports-Applicat.html

As I said before for many purposes a fathers parenthood is recognized. There are many Thai's that have never registered their marriage but their children can inherit their property and etc.

The MFA for certain visas and immigration for one year extensions have decided and made rules that legitimization is needed unless married.

Thanks both to yourself and Mario2008 for your answers.

My daughter is planning to visit the UK with her son but his father wont be travelling with them. I've already warned her that she will probably need to show something to Thai immigration before they will allow her son out of the country. She seems to think that a letter of permission from the father is good enough (as advised when she was making the passport application). Is she right or does she need the Por Kor 14?

The letter will be enough.