Mahlahgaw

I hear it pronounced with a glottal stop at the very end.

Does that happen even when there is no instance of the Thai letter explicitly indicating a stop?

Or is it just very short?

Never heard the glottal myself, just a short vowel. just my opinion.

Pa Pa Ya

All short vowels, maybe aspirate the last one.

Round here anyway.

Pa Pa Ya

All short vowels, maybe aspirate the last one.

Round here anyway.

Agreed + 1

Pa Pa Ya

All short vowels, maybe aspirate the last one.

Round here anyway.

I think the OP is referring to the Thai word for papaya, malagaw though.

Pa Pa Ya

All short vowels, maybe aspirate the last one.

Round here anyway.

I think the OP is referring to the Thai word for papaya, malagaw though.

The topic title is "Pronouncing papaya"

Malagaw is a city in Spain where wanabe posh people go for holidays

Pa Pa Ya

All short vowels, maybe aspirate the last one.

Round here anyway.

I think the OP is referring to the Thai word for papaya, malagaw though.

The topic title is "Pronouncing papaya"

Malagaw is a city in Spain where wanabe posh people go for holidays

Yes, but, what is the sub-forum title?

Pa Pa Ya

All short vowels, maybe aspirate the last one.

Round here anyway.

I think the OP is referring to the Thai word for papaya, malagaw though.

The topic title is "Pronouncing papaya"

Malagaw is a city in Spain where wanabe posh people go for holidays

Papaya is malagaw in Thai http://thai-language.com/id/134728

If you read the original post properly you will see it begins with that word.

Some being clever some not so much, afraid I can't tell the difference. Maybe someone could answer my question?

Does the Thai word มะละกอ have a glottal stop at the end of its pronunciation?

I have no idea about the written aspect and that's a secondary question if anyone wants to address that.

Thanks in advance.

Some being clever some not so much, afraid I can't tell the difference. Maybe someone could answer my question?

Does the Thai word มะละกอ have a glottal stop at the end of its pronunciation?

I have no idea about the written aspect and that's a secondary question if anyone wants to address that.

Thanks in advance.

If you look at the spelling, มะละกอ, you will see it is not a glottal stop, though easy to mistake it as such because that final "vowel" is a short vowel.

Some being clever some not so much, afraid I can't tell the difference. Maybe someone could answer my question?

Does the Thai word มะละกอ have a glottal stop at the end of its pronunciation?

I have no idea about the written aspect and that's a secondary question if anyone wants to address that.

Thanks in advance.

If you look at the spelling, มะละกอ, you will see it is not a glottal stop, though easy to mistake it as such because that final "vowel" is a short vowel.

The final vowel is actually long (but yes, no glottal stop). (If it were short a short vowel then there would be a glottal stop.)

OK, maybe I was mis-hearing it short at the end.

I've heard this word pronounced differently in different areas. It seems to range from "ma la gaw" to "ma la gor". This is not a glottal stop. Glottal stops occur when there is a short vowel ending, not followed by any consonant.For example in the word 'island' เกาะ.

Edited February 6, 201412 yr by Neeranam

Glottal stops occur when there is a short vowel ending, not followed by any consonant.For example in the word 'island' เกาะ.

That is unclear or incorrect (not sure which).

For all syllables ending in a written short vowel there is a terminal glottal stop. So, for example, in มะละกอ there are two glottal stops - after ma and after la.

For all syllables ending in a written short vowel there is a terminal glottal stop. So, for example, in มะละกอ there are two glottal stops - after ma and after la.

That's true for a careful pronunciation, but word internally these syllable-final glottal stops are usually dropped in normal speech. In the case of มะละกอ, the first seems to be more likely to be preserved. This isn't surprising given that the มะ in the names of fruit is a shortening of หมาก.

For all syllables ending in a written short vowel there is a terminal glottal stop. So, for example, in มะละกอ there are two glottal stops - after ma and after la.

That's true for a careful pronunciation, but word internally these syllable-final glottal stops are usually dropped in normal speech. In the case of มะละกอ, the first seems to be more likely to be preserved. This isn't surprising given that the มะ in the names of fruit is a shortening of หมาก.

Inclined to agree that its dropped usually.

Some being clever some not so much,

Sorry, it was my misunderstanding, I saw the word 'Mahlahgaw' and it honestly didn't register as I have never heard any of the locals here use it.

Is this a regional thing?

Use Google Translate and hit the speaker icon to hear it pronounced. มะละกอ sound

Use Google Translate and hit the speaker icon to hear it pronounced. มะละกอ sound

The 'malagaw' sounds right but the 'papaya' is wrong, IMHO.

Use Google Translate and hit the speaker icon to hear it pronounced. มะละกอ sound

The 'malagaw' sounds right but the 'papaya' is wrong, IMHO.

I assume that is a Thai pronunciation of it. Actually doesn't sound that far off from how I would say it but without the inflection (tone).

The glottal stop(s) in the first or first 2 syllables are dropped, and the first 2 syllables are closer to mid than to high tone because the last syllable is stressed.

But pronouncing it like it's written would be ok too.

Edited February 6, 201412 yr by kriswillems

Some being clever some not so much, afraid I can't tell the difference. Maybe someone could answer my question?

Does the Thai word มะละกอ have a glottal stop at the end of its pronunciation?

I have no idea about the written aspect and that's a secondary question if anyone wants to address that.

Thanks in advance.

If you look at the spelling, มะละกอ, you will see it is not a glottal stop, though easy to mistake it as such because that final "vowel" is a short vowel.

The final vowel is actually long (but yes, no glottal stop). (If it were short a short vowel then there would be a glottal stop.)

Thank you. Or ang is in my ears short. I have had no formal learning so happy to learn.......however, the GF explains that because it is part of a final syllable and is proceeded by gor gai, it makes it long.

อ can have 5 functions:

- the function of a long vowel like in พอ, มะละกอ

- the function of a silent first consonant like in อัน, เอา, อื่น, อก

- it can be part of another vowel like in เธอ

- the short version of the long อ vowel, if used with - ็อ like in ล็อค

- it can be used to convert a low class consonant to middle class (in only a few words), like in อยู่

The short version of the อ-vowel in an open syllable is เ-าะ like in หัวเราะ

or in a closed syllable: -็อ like in ล็อค

Edited February 7, 201412 yr by kriswillems

อ can have 3 functions:

- the function of a long vowel like in พอ, มะละกอ

- the function of a silent first consonant like in อัน, เอา, อื่น

- it can be part of another vowel like in เธอ

The short version of the อ-vowel in an open syllable is เ-าะ like in หัวเราะ

or in a closed syllable: -็อ like in ล็อค

Or it can modify the class of the following consonant (though this only applies for four words): อย่า อยู่ อย่าง อยาก.

อ can have 3 functions:

- the function of a long vowel like in พอ, มะละกอ

- the function of a silent first consonant like in อัน, เอา, อื่น

- it can be part of another vowel like in เธอ

The short version of the อ-vowel in an open syllable is เ-าะ like in หัวเราะ

or in a closed syllable: -็อ like in ล็อค

Or it can modify the class of the following consonant (though this only applies for four words): อย่า อยู่ อย่าง อยาก.

Right, that was my last edit, but you were faster

All final syllables ending with a short vowel are closed with a glottal stop used as the consonant to "close" the syllable . Closing the syllable with an unvoiced consonant tends to make it easier to both shorten the vowel and raise the tone up a bit (in English compare 'bee' vs 'beat') That being said, since the glottal stop consonant in English is not phonemic, few westerners will even hear it, just as they usually don't really hear the difference between the aspirated and unaspirated unvoices consonants [p,t,k]. The Thai word มะละกอ does not end with a short vowel and so no glottal stop. Listen to how Thais pronouce that last syllable in มะละกอ compared to say the Thai world for island.

Never heard the glottal myself, just a short vowel. just my opinion.

This is my feeling too, why make such a big deal of a glottal stop? What is it? Is it the short vowel said even shorter as in สมาส ? To me that is the same as the English sound you would have to make to blend s+m ส+ม but hang on to the 's' a tiny bit longer for Thai: s'maht.

If มะละกอ didn't have the vowel อ it wouldn't sound any different: มะละก but that would be like writing 'bumbleb' rather than writing 'bumblebee' .

Edit: Ref. pronunciation of ก็ deleted. ก็ is ก+ เอาะ.

Edited February 9, 201412 yr by tgeezer

How many Thais does Wym hear say มะละกอ? I'm just wondering if someone is hypercorrecting the word to มะละเกาะ or มะละเก๊าะ.

This is my feeling too, why make such a big deal of a glottal stop? What is it?

The glottal stop is the usual replacement for 't' after a vowel in Estuarine English. Believe you me, it can sound really odd when a speaker of Estuarine English drops all the glottal stops. So don't be surprised if some people notice the glottal stop quite easily.

Paw Paw