Importing Award Winning Devon Cider Into Thailand

[JLCrab]

Per post #52 'common sense & logic' -- if that's what it is -- may come from many years working with my family in the Florida citrus juice industry. When people used to ask me how big was our grove, I would say: It was already frozen and in the can before I had anything to do with it.

Edited February 10, 2014 by JLCrab

[mogandave]

If you don't think you could sell a container full, why would you even dick with it?

I move a little freight, and while it may be cheaper to move 2000 bottles from China to Thailand, I don't see how it could possibly be 8 (or even 4) times. Seems most of the cost of LTL is local pick up and delivery. The actual freight is pretty low.

Shipping from China could make sense only if you could get it in and out of China duty free. I know they have some "free zones" in Thailand, if they have similar areas in China you could set up in that would help.

But again, looking at that small a volume why bother?

[GrantSmith]

If you don't think you could sell a container full, why would you even dick with it?

I move a little freight, and while it may be cheaper to move 2000 bottles from China to Thailand, I don't see how it could possibly be 8 (or even 4) times. Seems most of the cost of LTL is local pick up and delivery. The actual freight is pretty low.

Shipping from China could make sense only if you could get it in and out of China duty free. I know they have some "free zones" in Thailand, if they have similar areas in China you could set up in that would help.

But again, looking at that small a volume why bother?

At just over a palette, it's really not that small amount to begin with, given it's an otherwise untested market.

The question the OP is looking at is would it be cheaper for his Thai importer to re-export the product through China (in turn paying China's associated taxes) and as such skipping the Thai Import Tax component (utilising the FTA between China and Thailand) or shipping it directly from he UK to Thailand.

Does the OP go with FOB or CIF pricing?

I believe the OP is doing this for his own piece of mind, to get his head around it (so to speak), as ultimately he's not responsible for any taxes related to Thailand and is looking to assist his potential Thai importer in order for both of them to benefit.

[nonthaburial]

If you don't think you could sell a container full, why would you even dick with it?

I move a little freight, and while it may be cheaper to move 2000 bottles from China to Thailand, I don't see how it could possibly be 8 (or even 4) times. Seems most of the cost of LTL is local pick up and delivery. The actual freight is pretty low.

Shipping from China could make sense only if you could get it in and out of China duty free. I know they have some "free zones" in Thailand, if they have similar areas in China you could set up in that would help.

But again, looking at that small a volume why bother?

At just over a palette, it's really not that small amount to begin with, given it's an otherwise untested market.

The question the OP is looking at is would it be cheaper for his Thai importer to re-export the product through China (in turn paying China's associated taxes) and as such skipping the Thai Import Tax component (utilising the FTA between China and Thailand) or shipping it directly from he UK to Thailand.

Does the OP go with FOB or CIF pricing?

I believe the OP is doing this for his own piece of mind, to get his head around it (so to speak), as ultimately he's not responsible for any taxes related to Thailand and is looking to assist his potential Thai importer in order for both of them to benefit.

Nail on the head GrantSmith, and it's CIF. By the way 1,000 litres for a first time tester, in my opinion is not a small amount.

[mogandave]

If you don't think you could sell a container full, why would you even dick with it?

I move a little freight, and while it may be cheaper to move 2000 bottles from China to Thailand, I don't see how it could possibly be 8 (or even 4) times. Seems most of the cost of LTL is local pick up and delivery. The actual freight is pretty low.

Shipping from China could make sense only if you could get it in and out of China duty free. I know they have some "free zones" in Thailand, if they have similar areas in China you could set up in that would help.

But again, looking at that small a volume why bother?

At just over a palette, it's really not that small amount to begin with, given it's an otherwise untested market.

The question the OP is looking at is would it be cheaper for his Thai importer to re-export the product through China (in turn paying China's associated taxes) and as such skipping the Thai Import Tax component (utilising the FTA between China and Thailand) or shipping it directly from he UK to Thailand.

Does the OP go with FOB or CIF pricing?

I believe the OP is doing this for his own piece of mind, to get his head around it (so to speak), as ultimately he's not responsible for any taxes related to Thailand and is looking to assist his potential Thai importer in order for both of them to benefit.

So the only question is whether the duty is higher in China or Thialand? Surly one of the other has to be paid. Any decent forwarder could provide the rates.

I am still not clear whether the OP is trying to import and distrubute it himself, or if he has something at this end lined up to handle that.

If the plan is to ship a pallet to a buddy that owns a bar to see how it goes 2,000 bottles might be okay.

[meatboy]

1000lts for a first time tester is quite a small amount,if it a well known brand it wont go far as I have to buy 60lts. at a time to get a fair price. 5 x 24 =120 x 500ml.that is the only way your goner make it pay is to sell it in quantities.

as this is the 60+ post on award winning cider please enlighten us as to what it is.

[mogandave]

And how authentic can it be if it comes in half liters (litres?) rather than pints?

[GrantSmith]

And how authentic can it be if it comes in half liters (litres?) rather than pints?

Because it's a little short of the Imperial (traditional) pint size but larger than the American (fluid) pint, you're questioning the authenticity?

Have seen a plethora of ciders that come in all various manner of bottle sizes, all very much authentic.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[GrantSmith]

[quote name="nonthaburial" post="7426277" timestamp="1392163244"

Nail on the head GrantSmith, and it's CIF. By the way 1,000 litres for a first time tester, in my opinion is not a small amount.

Also, will this be a sample or commercial shipment? Given the volume I would say commercial, but if sample that could alter the ball game a little with regards to taxes.

CIF? No wonder you're trying to get your head around the taxes.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[meatboy]

"sample" the people you want to try it wont get a look in Thai's love anything for nothing,dont forget us cider wallers are spread all over Thailand so the op.wants a well known brand,eg.westons.thatchers. gaymer&son.scrumpy jack.and I am sure I saw that the brewers of stella artois are producing cider.

[mogandave]

And how authentic can it be if it comes in half liters (litres?) rather than pints?

...you're questioning the authenticity?

No, I was making a joke, sorry.

[GrantSmith]

No, I was making a joke, sorry.

Ah, failed to detect joke due to lake of emoticons

[mogandave]

No, I was making a joke, sorry.

Ah, failed to detect joke due to lake of emoticons

Was "lake" a pun or a typo?

[GrantSmith]

"sample" the people you want to try it wont get a look in Thai's love anything for nothing,dont forget us cider wallers are spread all over Thailand so the op.wants a well known brand,eg.westons.thatchers. gaymer&son.scrumpy jack.and I am sure I saw that the brewers of stella artois are producing cider.

The reason for my question RE: Sample or Commercial is not related to freeloaders.

It's a question related to the taxation, if it's a sample shipment the taxes will be lower but with that you bring another raft of nuances one has to deal with.

[GrantSmith]

No, I was making a joke, sorry.

Ah, failed to detect joke due to lake of emoticons

Was "lake" a pun or a typo?

Now we picking up what we're putting down

[nonthaburial]

"sample" the people you want to try it wont get a look in Thai's love anything for nothing,dont forget us cider wallers are spread all over Thailand so the op.wants a well known brand,eg.westons.thatchers. gaymer&son.scrumpy jack.and I am sure I saw that the brewers of stella artois are producing cider.

Hi meatboy, a number of the brands you mentioned are, I believe, available already in Thailand. Please google Sandford Orchards. We stock all the range of their ciders apart from the Vintage

[mogandave]

"sample" the people you want to try it wont get a look in Thai's love anything for nothing,dont forget us cider wallers are spread all over Thailand so the op.wants a well known brand,eg.westons.thatchers. gaymer&son.scrumpy jack.and I am sure I saw that the brewers of stella artois are producing cider.

The reason for my question RE: Sample or Commercial is not related to freeloaders.

It's a question related to the taxation, if it's a sample shipment the taxes will be lower but with that you bring another raft of nuances one has to deal with.

It has been my experience that getting something in as a sample/no commercial value is difficult.

The OP is (apparently) talking about a full range of products represented in 2000 bottles, which sounds like samples.

So OP, are you plannign to import and distribute it yourself or are you going to use am importer/distributer here?

[nonthaburial]

If you don't think you could sell a container full, why would you even dick with it?

I move a little freight, and while it may be cheaper to move 2000 bottles from China to Thailand, I don't see how it could possibly be 8 (or even 4) times. Seems most of the cost of LTL is local pick up and delivery. The actual freight is pretty low.

Shipping from China could make sense only if you could get it in and out of China duty free. I know they have some "free zones" in Thailand, if they have similar areas in China you could set up in that would help.

But again, looking at that small a volume why bother?

At just over a palette, it's really not that small amount to begin with, given it's an otherwise untested market.

The question the OP is looking at is would it be cheaper for his Thai importer to re-export the product through China (in turn paying China's associated taxes) and as such skipping the Thai Import Tax component (utilising the FTA between China and Thailand) or shipping it directly from he UK to Thailand.

Does the OP go with FOB or CIF pricing?

I believe the OP is doing this for his own piece of mind, to get his head around it (so to speak), as ultimately he's not responsible for any taxes related to Thailand and is looking to assist his potential Thai importer in order for both of them to benefit.

So the only question is whether the duty is higher in China or Thialand? Surly one of the other has to be paid. Any decent forwarder could provide the rates.

I am still not clear whether the OP is trying to import and distrubute it himself, or if he has something at this end lined up to handle that.

If the plan is to ship a pallet to a buddy that owns a bar to see how it goes 2,000 bottles might be okay.[/quote

]mogandave, as stated very early on, I have a contact who is interested.there is a consortium in Bangkok who operate a number of up market restaurants, they also supply up market wines to various outlets as well as to such establishments as sports and social clubs, who I feel best not to name.

The initial thinking is for them to offer in their restaurants to gauge the response and if happy then offer it with their wines etc. But after reading responses on here, they will also be willing to supply in a minimum order requirement to interested individuals.

The first shipment will be for sampling purposes out of their restaurants, but my feeling is 2000 bottles would be too large an amount to be called samples.

I totally agree that duties have to be paid somewhere, and they have already attracted had had paid all duties into China. And this is the major headache, as having to pay two duties would kill it. I am in the process of engaging with a alcohol importer in Bangkok.

[mogandave]

Well, were it me, I would partner with the importer/distributer, not the bar owner.

Is Thailand part of your exclusive territory with the parent company? If not, I would get that before I did anything, otherwise after all the money is spent and work is done, if it takes off, you'll be out.

[meatboy]

"sample" the people you want to try it wont get a look in Thai's love anything for nothing,dont forget us cider wallers are spread all over Thailand so the op.wants a well known brand,eg.westons.thatchers. gaymer&son.scrumpy jack.and I am sure I saw that the brewers of stella artois are producing cider.

Hi meatboy, a number of the brands you mentioned are, I believe, available already in Thailand. Please google Sandford Orchards. We stock all the range of their ciders apart from the Vintage

thanks for that, you have a mighty impressive list,i think unless you can get around the taxes you might have a problem with priceing as these products are the real thing.6% is just about my limit now so john kepplers is just about fine.

keep us all posted.

[ozzydom]

Brunty,s cider is now made in Cambodia.

[nonthaburial]

Brunty,s cider is now made in Cambodia.

l

Quite right ozzydom, with imported apple concentrate. A number of UK manufacturers have thought about the same process, but general consensus is that the high temperatures in the area would force ferment, which is not acceptable.

[onthemoon]

So are you asking about actually doing the importing or partnering with someone that will, and want to ship direct to the manufacturer, correct?

Importing into Thailand is not difficult, but you would need a customs card and a food specific permit. Determining the duty is easy enough, just ask your forwarder to look it up.

The customs card hasn't existed for many years, and you do not need a food licence (issued by the FDA) for alcohol. You need an an alcohol licence (issued by the Excise Department).

[mogandave]

So are you asking about actually doing the importing or partnering with someone that will, and want to ship direct to the manufacturer, correct?

Importing into Thailand is not difficult, but you would need a customs card and a food specific permit. Determining the duty is easy enough, just ask your forwarder to look it up.

The customs card hasn't existed for many years, and you do not need a food licence (issued by the FDA) for alcohol. You need an an alcohol licence (issued by the Excise Department).

I guess that depends on what you concider many year, I have a card and I've only been here since 2000.

[GrantSmith]

So are you asking about actually doing the importing or partnering with someone that will, and want to ship direct to the manufacturer, correct?

Importing into Thailand is not difficult, but you would need a customs card and a food specific permit. Determining the duty is easy enough, just ask your forwarder to look it up.

The customs card hasn't existed for many years, and you do not need a food licence (issued by the FDA) for alcohol. You need an an alcohol licence (issued by the Excise Department).

The card still exists but isn't necessary...

You're right about the FDA approval though, it isn't required for alcohol. Despite what some government departments will tell you

[onthemoon]

So are you asking about actually doing the importing or partnering with someone that will, and want to ship direct to the manufacturer, correct?

Importing into Thailand is not difficult, but you would need a customs card and a food specific permit. Determining the duty is easy enough, just ask your forwarder to look it up.

The customs card hasn't existed for many years, and you do not need a food licence (issued by the FDA) for alcohol. You need an an alcohol licence (issued by the Excise Department).

I guess that depends on what you concider many year, I have a card and I've only been here since 2000.

Well, 14 years is more than a lifetime for any regulation here. Keep the card as a souvenir, it has no value now but you might be able to sell it to a museum soon.

[mogandave]

So are you asking about actually doing the importing or partnering with someone that will, and want to ship direct to the manufacturer, correct?

Importing into Thailand is not difficult, but you would need a customs card and a food specific permit. Determining the duty is easy enough, just ask your forwarder to look it up.

The customs card hasn't existed for many years, and you do not need a food licence (issued by the FDA) for alcohol. You need an an alcohol licence (issued by the Excise Department).

I guess that depends on what you concider many year, I have a card and I've only been here since 2000.

Well, 14 years is more than a lifetime for any regulation here. Keep the card as a souvenir, it has no value now but you might be able to sell it to a museum soon.

Well, 14 years is 168 lifetimes for a fly, so I guess if I were a fly, fourteen would qualify as many years.

2000 was the year I got it, I have no idea when I quit needing as I do not interact with the customs department directly. Do you know when the stopped the requirement?

So how long has an alcohol license been required to import booze?

[onthemoon]

The customs card hasn't existed for many years, and you do not need a food licence (issued by the FDA) for alcohol. You need an an alcohol licence (issued by the Excise Department).

I guess that depends on what you concider many year, I have a card and I've only been here since 2000.

Well, 14 years is more than a lifetime for any regulation here. Keep the card as a souvenir, it has no value now but you might be able to sell it to a museum soon.

Well, 14 years is 168 lifetimes for a fly, so I guess if I were a fly, fourteen would qualify as many years.

2000 was the year I got it, I have no idea when I quit needing as I do not interact with the customs department directly. Do you know when the stopped the requirement?

So how long has an alcohol license been required to import booze?

The alcohol licence has been required at least since the mid 1990s, that's when I started to get involved in import-clearing such products. The card was required at the time. Laws have changed in the meantime.

If you are really interested in importing alcoholic beverages, please send me a PM.

[mogandave]

The alcohol licence has been required at least since the mid 1990s, that's when I started to get involved in import-clearing such products. The card was required at the time. Laws have changed in the meantime.

If you are really interested in importing alcoholic beverages, please send me a PM.

Thanks, but I have no personal interest in it, I was only trying to figure out what the OP was trying to do, as it does not seem to make sense to me.

I work in manufacturing.