South Australian gay couple travel to Thailand for birth of their surrogate twins

[chooka]

It seems to be popular amongst gay men in Australia to use thai women as surrogate mothers.

[speedtripler]

It seems to be popular amongst gay men in Australia to use thai women as surrogate mothers.

why not just get a poodle ? a child shouldnt have to grow up in such an unnatural environment

saying that some hetero marriages break down is not an adequate defence of this "crime" against nature

[Yunla]

Is buying babies an act of love, compassion or kindness? To me it seems like an act of selfishness.

God did, after all, decide where to put the womb.

I said earlier I would prefer people to adopt children, rather than go through surrogacy. Re; your point, the love and kindness is in the raising of the babies after they are born. I don't see how it can be a bad thing in the eyes of God, if two men raise children with love and compassion, and if the birth-mother was in the arrangement willingly. I did mention earlier I have concerns about women from poor nations being exploited because they are poor. But that also applies to hetero couples paying for babies, and also for prostitution and working in slave-factories.

Re; your point on God decided where to put the womb, and to the other posters who talk about 'crimes against nature' etc. God also decided to give me severe multiple sclerosis, and epilepsy, both from birth onwards. During my life I then became "a crime against nature" by breaking both hips and shoulders in seizure. I now have metal hinges and pegs holding my limbs on. This makes me "not natural." But I can confirm that God loves me, even with my robot limbs lol. If you are going to talk about God wanting everything to be "natural" ie. "the way you are born" you will have to explain to a lot of people why they can't have prosthetic limbs because God wanted them to crawl along the floor instead, or they can't have medicines or dialysis if they were born with organ problems. This is a big topic, but in my view God created a system of merit, some people were born with more severe challenges to overcome, and this is all part of the system. People are often born gay, they often know this from a very early age. For them to reconcile this with wanting to be a parent, which is a normal human wish, means they have to overcome challenges too. I do repeat though, I would prefer if all people wanting children, and unable to have them naturally, they should adopt a child.

[samran]

I've had gay friends do surrogacy in India so there must be ways around it. Also had a heterosexual couple I know do it after the wife was made infertile by cancer treatment.

I'm sure that adoption wise many more people would like to adopt than do. But I also know friends who would like to adopt and the barriers placed in the way of even straight heterosexual couples means that for many surrogacy is the way to go.

[samran]

It seems to be popular amongst gay men in Australia to use thai women as surrogate mothers.

why not just get a poodle ? a child shouldnt have to grow up in such an unnatural environment

saying that some hetero marriages break down is not an adequate defence of this "crime" against nature

I'd suggest that growing up with you as a father is a crime against nature.

What homophobic claptrap.

[samran]

To me, it seems very sad to grow up without the love of a mother.

There's a special bond created between a child and it's mother during pregnancy.

The fact that you can buy a baby is rather sad too, really - regardless of the sexual preference of the parents.

Stop it with the rose coloured view of the world. Plenty if useless mothers out there who have kids. If these two people went through the time and expense of the whole process, then I think that is a very good indicator of them being good patents. If you are a woman having a functioning womb is your only qualification.

[metisdead]

Flaming posts have been removed.

[chooka]

I've had gay friends do surrogacy in India so there must be ways around it. Also had a heterosexual couple I know do it after the wife was made infertile by cancer treatment.

I'm sure that adoption wise many more people would like to adopt than do. But I also know friends who would like to adopt and the barriers placed in the way of even straight heterosexual couples means that for many surrogacy is the way to go.

Concern as Australians turn to Thailand for surrogates

Concerns are being raised about the use of surrogates in Thailand as a growing number of Australians look to the country in their bid to have a child.

The swing towards Thailand is the direct result of a decision by India to only grant medical visas for surrogacy to heterosexual couples who have been married for at least two years.

For Marcus and his partner, this meant turning to Thailand to have their child.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-13/thai-surrogacy-concerns/4624388

[samran]

I've had gay friends do surrogacy in India so there must be ways around it. Also had a heterosexual couple I know do it after the wife was made infertile by cancer treatment.

I'm sure that adoption wise many more people would like to adopt than do. But I also know friends who would like to adopt and the barriers placed in the way of even straight heterosexual couples means that for many surrogacy is the way to go.

Concern as Australians turn to Thailand for surrogates

Concerns are being raised about the use of surrogates in Thailand as a growing number of Australians look to the country in their bid to have a child.

The swing towards Thailand is the direct result of a decision by India to only grant medical visas for surrogacy to heterosexual couples who have been married for at least two years.

For Marcus and his partner, this meant turning to Thailand to have their child.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-13/thai-surrogacy-concerns/4624388

Thanks for the update. Our friends did it more than 2 years ago, hence their ability tondo so I guess.

[chooka]

The headline says twins. How can they possibly be twins with two different biological fathers and mothers. I say they are step sisters rather than twins

[David48]

The headline says twins. How can they possibly be twins with two different biological fathers and mothers. I say they are step sisters rather than twins

That's a fair point.

Maybe it's a euphemism rather then a fact.

Or a lazy translation.

Or maybe it's the words of the Fathers who wish to create the image that they are Twins, when the reality, is in fact, different.

Story selling point.

The speculation is endless ...

[pedro01]

To me, it seems very sad to grow up without the love of a mother.

There's a special bond created between a child and it's mother during pregnancy.

The fact that you can buy a baby is rather sad too, really - regardless of the sexual preference of the parents.

Stop it with the rose coloured view of the world. Plenty if useless mothers out there who have kids. If these two people went through the time and expense of the whole process, then I think that is a very good indicator of them being good patents. If you are a woman having a functioning womb is your only qualification.

So buying 2 children is a sign you would be a good parent?

[MMarlow]

hub of surrogate mothers, well there is a business model... how did they get their name on the birth certificate as father (not married with thai woman) and how can those babies leave thailand (passport, authorisation from mother....)

big lawyer business setup me thinks

and, how much was it ?

"how did they get their name on the birth certificate as father (not married with thai woman)"

Easy. Marriage is not a requirement to have the father's name on a birth certificate in Thailand. Read the article and you will see that the surrogates signed contracts, you don't think that the surrogates authorisation would be covered?

[samran]

To me, it seems very sad to grow up without the love of a mother.

There's a special bond created between a child and it's mother during pregnancy.

The fact that you can buy a baby is rather sad too, really - regardless of the sexual preference of the parents.

Stop it with the rose coloured view of the world. Plenty if useless mothers out there who have kids. If these two people went through the time and expense of the whole process, then I think that is a very good indicator of them being good patents. If you are a woman having a functioning womb is your only qualification.

So buying 2 children is a sign you would be a good parent?

It is hardly buying a child. You are getting an egg and a surrogate. You provide the medical care and treatment. For anyone who has kids, you'll know there is absolutely nothing guaranteeing that the birth goes to full term.

Call it what you want, but they aren't kidnapping anyone. There are no unwilling participants.

If there was any issue with the process, you can be sure that governments of the parents home countries wouldn't be issuing the new borns with citizenship and passports. All it would take is one stroke of a pen by the Australian government not to issue passports to surrogate children and the whole industry would stop dead in its tracks.!

[Zpete]

hub of surrogate mothers, well there is a business model... how did they get their name on the birth certificate as father (not married with thai woman) and how can those babies leave thailand (passport, authorisation from mother....)

big lawyer business setup me thinks

and, how much was it ?

Quite obviously, you have NOT READ the full post, the original article.

Go read.

[cup-O-coffee]

The "haters" have the majority power over unpopular minorities in most of the world, so they can't really be ignored.

Dear Jingthing...

It's the world we live in. Homophobic, heterophobic, haters, lovers, doers, watchers...; It's simply the world we live in.

I understand that you champion this issue to the point of making it an all out war (as you stated a few months ago), and I took note of that, and constantly read your posts with interest. You seem to be the leader on this issue when it comes up in TV, and I do admire your tenacity.

We disagree on a lot of views and opinions, but, again, I do admire your tenacity.

The thing is,,, it's the world we live in. There are ways to get honey from bees, and there are way not to get honey from bees. Add to that the titillating fact that you need the very bees which you deride in order to gain the satisfaction you seek, ...otherwise you place yourself in the same category of the very bees which you "chose" to fight.

Translated: you can't get rid of every single heterosexual person and turn this planet into a population of gays and lesbians alone. And hence, the only option? Well, I think you can figure that one out for yourself...

...calling the bees nasty things and making the mistake of "thinking" that your well crafted posts can conjure up feelings of guilt in the minds of those bees is a disservice to your intelligence. Doing so will not get you what you seek any faster or make the results any nearer what you imagine.

As I have stated before, what you are fighting for has never been achieved in the history of mankind, and the gross charades (of what you are fighting for) throughout history which have been achieved have ended in disaster... utter disaster.

It seems that you have not learned your history very well, and yet have "chosen" to take up the baton and plow right ahead the same as your predecessors on this issue.

It's all fine and dandy for you and yours, but the thing is, I do read your posts, and the one single thing you are not capable of is being able to contain your true agenda; not in the things you say, but in the things you do not say, or the things you avoid and ignore when they come before you.

There have been many ignorant and stupid posts from whom I would assume are heterosexual people, and you are right handy in jumping all over them, ... yet you are quite consistent in avoiding a legitimate and tangible discussion with intelligent and well-thought out posts.

Interesting that.

It's simply the world we live in, and as far as history is concerned, you have one hell of a mountain to climb... a mountain that you, nor anyone else with your views and tactics have ever seen the summit.

As amazingly intelligent as you are, I fear that history get the better of you.

I do not think that you have a derogatory word for History now, do you?

Homo-History?

Edited February 12, 2014 by cup-O-coffee

[Jingthing]

...

Homo-History?

(Clipped post about for brevity. Replying to entire LONG post. You can read it all (if you're a masochist) right above this.)

I read your post. I have no idea what you are saying except I kind of get you don't appreciate uppity activists. Also stop making up absurd lies -- I never proposed a literal "war" over social issues. Yes there is an international "fight" for civil rights of all kinds, including gay civil rights. Yes, in the U.S. the conflicts over social issues are commonly called the CULTURE WARS. But nobody in their right mind actually thinks that refers to a LITERAL war.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Jingthing

[Prbkk]

it would been nice to name them Yingluck and Suthep....or maybe not.

[cup-O-coffee]

...

Homo-History?

(Clipped post about for brevity. Replying to entire LONG post. You can read it all (if you're a masochist) right above this.)

I read your post. I have no idea what you are saying except I kind of get you don't appreciate uppity activists. Also stop making up absurd lies -- I never proposed a literal "war" over social issues. Yes there is an international "fight" for civil rights of all kinds, including gay civil rights. Yes, in the U.S. the conflicts over social issues are commonly called the CULTURE WARS. But nobody in their right mind actually thinks that refers to a LITERAL war.

Jingthijng. No. You are in err. How you select the way you think I view you is non-essential to the equation. Stating that puts you further at odds to the very thing you wish to achieve.

You "choose" to be Gay", as you state. You also "choose" to interpret what I am about and the many many issues of which I am aware of, and which also I am aware that you don't stand a snowball's chance to get around with your "go-get-em, and if you can't go-get-em then spew spew spew".

Before I consider any respect towards your "bigger choices" in life, I'll settle for now on how you "choose" to respect me.

Uppity?

Is that really constructive and practical?

That one simple term really makes any further discussion irrelevant, because I am not going to chase after you or try to seek your approval, or try to assuage your "hurt" feelings.

I don't have the time to dig it up, but you made the rather loud statement that if it comes to an all out war (paraphrasing but the implications were unmistakeable) then so be it.

Glad to see that you have dialed it down a bit then.

Clipping my post?

Is that really true, what you said?

A simple "click" on the "quote" button really makes it unnecessary to sensationalize your feelings about my post, unless that was your intention, but then again... it spells out the obvious.

Just hit the "quote" button, jingthing, and dispense with the unnecessary.

Thank you.

[Jingthing]

In respect to the other readers, I "choose" to not engage with the Mr. Coffee poster anymore on this thread. He is clearly here just to provoke (and in a rather incoherent way as well). Sorry to be slow about that.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Jingthing

[cup-O-coffee]

In respect to the other readers, I "choose" to not engage with the Mr. Coffee poster anymore on this thread. He is clearly here just to provoke (and in a rather incoherent way as well). Sorry to be slow about that.

And in all fairness to the other readers, it will be interesting to see who you do "choose" to selectively engage with.

We're out there, Jingthing. "Choosing" not to engage us will only make it more difficult with us, and with how you wish to engage with our children when we can not be there to "engage" with you.

I wish you well, and very much respect to you, and what you believe in.

[Jingthing]

Sounds like Mr. Coffee is threatening gay people in general now ... on top of the multiple malicious fictions he invented about things I have said in my personal posting history. To clarify, I am not the King of the gays. Suggest maybe contracting a media personality that is more like that, like DAN SAVAGE.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Jingthing

[arunsakda]

The real issue here isn't the sexuality of the parents at all. There are many people who are raised by 1 piss poor parent that couldn't give an s**t. 2 fathers who both love you dearly? Fine.

The issue here is that there are 1,000,000s of children all over the world who are already born but will live their lives in homes never knowing the love of a parent. These 2 (and many, many others like them including infertile hetero couples) could really make a difference but make this choice. That is what I have a problem with.

The article said they could not adopt in South Oz because of their sexuality.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Jingthing]

The real issue here isn't the sexuality of the parents at all. There are many people who are raised by 1 piss poor parent that couldn't give an s**t. 2 fathers who both love you dearly? Fine.

The issue here is that there are 1,000,000s of children all over the world who are already born but will live their lives in homes never knowing the love of a parent. These 2 (and many, many others like them including infertile hetero couples) could really make a difference but make this choice. That is what I have a problem with.

The article said they could not adopt in South Oz because of their sexuality.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

There are actually multiple issues here.

If it wasn't a gay couple and it was only a story about foreign sourced surrogacy, it would be a pure story about the ethics of such schemes. But it isn't.

[cup-O-coffee]

Sounds like Mr. Coffee is threatening gay people in general now ... on top of the multiple malicious fictions he invented about things I have said in my personal posting history. To clarify, I am not the King of the gays. Suggest maybe contracting a media personality that is more like that, like DAN SAVAGE.

Jingthing, I am doing no such thing. Again, you are in err, respectfully. Life simply is what it is. I am being me. You are being you.

Isn't it curious the manner with which you "choose" your descriptive words, and the words in particular. They are quite caustic, yet you seem to approve of their use in spite of what you wish me not to say, or would endeavor to censor me were I to in fact mirror your attitude about this.

Throughout all of the posts you have entered, I have yet to understand just exactly what it is that you want, and how you endeavor to attain that without offending the senses of the very ones who are at liberty to give it to you... or not.

What these two men have attained is merely one infinitesimally small facet of the larger picture. Taking this mediocre attainment and bringing it to the forefront of everyone's attention poses the risk of offending people who simply do not want to be bothered with such as this.

I understand that your agenda (and that is indeed what it is called) is the means whereby you get the motivation to the end, but perhaps you should consider that people like me; when I read such as this; simply do not want to be motivated by a nagging feeling in the back of our minds that if we don't speak up, and if we don't say something, that our silence will be misinterpreted as some kind of condonement or caving in, or perhaps even fear of upsetting someone.

My point being; I understand that you are upset about quite a lot of things which prevent you from living in a perfect world, but so am I.

The regrettable thing is that most of the words we have exchanged have been all about you, or all about trying to calm you down and to get you to say something legitimate. Thus far, I have yet to be entertained by that.

This article was threaded in "Thailand News". Hence it is open to opinions from people who do not subscribe to the other, more relevant forums herein.

You are resilient... I'll give you that.

Respect, mate! I do admire your gumption.

[David48]

In respect to the other readers, I "choose" to not engage with the Mr. Coffee poster anymore on this thread. He is clearly here just to provoke (and in a rather incoherent way as well). Sorry to be slow about that.

Sounds like Mr. Coffee is threatening gay people in general now ... on top of the multiple malicious fictions he invented about things I have said in my personal posting history. To clarify, I am not the King of the gays. Suggest maybe contracting a media personality that is more like that, like DAN SAVAGE.

Dude ... it's extremely now Forum Form to state that you are not responding to someone ... then, within a few posts, talk about him in the 3rd person spreading scandal and innuendo.

That a no, no, no ...

[cup-O-coffee]

In respect to the other readers, I "choose" to not engage with the Mr. Coffee poster anymore on this thread. He is clearly here just to provoke (and in a rather incoherent way as well). Sorry to be slow about that.

Sounds like Mr. Coffee is threatening gay people in general now ... on top of the multiple malicious fictions he invented about things I have said in my personal posting history. To clarify, I am not the King of the gays. Suggest maybe contracting a media personality that is more like that, like DAN SAVAGE.

Dude ... it's extremely now Forum Form to state that you are not responding to someone ... then, within a few posts, talk about him in the 3rd person spreading scandal and innuendo.

That a no, no, no ...

As I am the object of his focus, I formally forgive him, and do not do that in the sense that it comes across as being insincere or demeaning to him (her?).

I do that a lot myself, in fact.

Regards.

[Jingthing]

Suggest y'all get back to the topic. Hint: it's not me.

[LuckyLew]

To me, it seems very sad to grow up without the love of a mother.

There's a special bond created between a child and it's mother during pregnancy.

The fact that you can buy a baby is rather sad, really - regardless of the sexual preference of the parents.

It's not that sad to potential parental hopefuls who can't have babies otherwise.

You are always thinking about the parents point of view

Try looking at it from the kids point of view

[Jingthing]

To me, it seems very sad to grow up without the love of a mother.

There's a special bond created between a child and it's mother during pregnancy.

The fact that you can buy a baby is rather sad, really - regardless of the sexual preference of the parents.

It's not that sad to potential parental hopefuls who can't have babies otherwise.

You are always thinking about the parents point of view

Try looking at it from the kids point of view

Honestly, I think couples who can't biologically have children should adopt if they want children. But so many potential parents aren't satisfied with that. They feel the need for the GENETIC connection.