Abhisit sets conditions for contesting election

[ShannonT]

If you look at the conversation history, you'll see that andrewrooney and me were talking about Abhisit and Suthep not providing any details about the reforms.

If you are talking in reference to something other than the 2 people you are quoting, then perhaps you shouldn't be quoting them.

[Tatsujin]

As in this quote....."Four wishes of the people"?....Since when are these electoral minority coup-mongers and their shadowy supporters "The people"?........The people spoke on Feb. 2nd. and he is so afraid of what they said. He wants to 'deep-six' their opinion.

The people (most of them) voted already.

43 million (roughly) of the population were eligible to vote, yet only 20 million (roughly) did so out of a population of 70 million or so. That's less than 30% of the entire population. And (let's say) PT got around 50% of that vote, it means PT are only approved by around 15% of the population.

Is my maths correct? Did "the people" really vote for PT this time around?

When did the public vote for these 4 reforms and what are they?

No one mentioned reforms in the quotes you quoted. We were talking about the Pheu Thai party itself.

[Tatsujin]

As in this quote....."Four wishes of the people"?....Since when are these electoral minority coup-mongers and their shadowy supporters "The people"?........The people spoke on Feb. 2nd. and he is so afraid of what they said. He wants to 'deep-six' their opinion.

The people (most of them) voted already.

43 million (roughly) of the population were eligible to vote, yet only 20 million (roughly) did so out of a population of 70 million or so. That's less than 30% of the entire population. And (let's say) PT got around 50% of that vote, it means PT are only approved by around 15% of the population.

Is my maths correct? Did "the people" really vote for PT this time around?

it was(is) a democratic election. So PT got the majority. That's fact! Changes could be done ONLY in parliament, not by street people who got a big mouth only but no brain.

You might want to read the figures again . . . to date:

The EC announced that as many as 20.1 million out of 43.024 million eligible voters submitted votes in 68 provinces where voting was not disrupted by protestors, with 71.38 percent of those ballots valid, 12.05 percent invalid and 16.57 percent "no-vote".

43 million eligible voters

20 million voted

71% valid votes

12% invalid

17% no vote

So, if 20 million voted (i.e just under 47% of total eligible voters), and we assume PT got the entire 71% of those valid votes (which they won't as there are other parties involved), that means they effectively received less than 35% of the total votes available to be cast. How is this a majority?

Yes, there are still places that need to cast a vote, but these are predominantly in areas that are NOT pro-Govt so those numbers for PT will actually decline overall by the time this ends.

[rubl]

Well, in the universe here PM Abhisit offered new General Elections later in the year and initially dr. weng, Nattawut, Korkaew, Jatuporn c.s. seemed to agree till someone got a call on his mobile and all of a sudden the deal was off.

The army was armed with mostly their personal weapons as all soldiers have, their opponents had grenades and used them frequently.

As for buldozering the election section in the 2007 constitution, you may refer to the extending of the number of constituencies to have a more equal representation with less people per constituency. That helped populous areas in Thailand, like in NorthEast.

All in all your post is another rambling one with a few lies mistakes.

The subject on this is on the credibility of AV making new election demands. Can we trust him again for keep shifting goal posts.

1. AV did offer an election on November and he later said under the circumstances the GE should not be held in November after the military cracked down.

2. Do you know what that call was about?

3. The army did not just armed with mostly their personal weapons as all soldiers have during the 2010 bloody cracked down. They are not armed like that in dealing with the blockage of the Defense ministry HQ. This means it was not necessary to arm to such extend. They did not use proportionate force when dealing with the 2010 demonstrators.

4. The bulldozing on the election section of 2007 constitution was not confined to just the equal representation with less people per constituency - for their then coalition partners, it was on the party list system as well - for the dem. How does that helped populous areas in Thailand, like in Northeast. Of course, the voices of the emerging power of the people is loud and clear - they rejected the betrayers and the 'old elite' power to continue oppressing and impoverish them.

ad.1 Abhisit offered, his offer was rejected, his offer was no longer valid.

ad.2 Do your own searching

ad.3. Proportionate force? Against protesters with grenade launchers? You mean the army should also have used grenade launchers?

ad.4. The 'buldozing of the election section' as some have it seemed very fair and actually favoring the then opposition Pheu Thai with their voter rich home base in Isaan.

BTW 'oppressing and impoverishing' ? You mean all those local landlords and elite chaps who traditionally control their people? Tell them what to do and keep them poor, uneducated? Those local elite?

1. Twisting. He said it was not the right time to hold an election after he managed to crack down demonstrators. He changed his mind.

2. You have no idea. Trying to wriggle out.

3. Target and deal with the grenade launchers, not the demonstrators. They should protect the demonstrators. Wonder how you get the information that the protesters were the grenade launchers.

4. Fairness is not an issue. It is under the same amended constitution that 2 Feb was held. It is so good of them to amend something to favour PTP.

BTW, you are twisting and distorting the real situation. The 'emerging power' of the people know what and who they are fighting. You offered no solution and your attitude does not help in the unifying of Thailand.

ad.1. His offer was rejected therefor he was not honour bound to it. Has nothing to do with changing his mind, or going back on a promise.

ad.2. Do your own searching

ad.3. peacefull protesters were death, dumb and blind as they managed not to see the militants mingling with them. If militants shoot from within ranks of unarmed peaceful protesters, innocents will get hurt.

ad.4. so now the 'buldozing' of the election part in the constitution is all of a sudden OK to you?

BTW you're right, the emerging power of the people became even clear to the Yingluck government when they undemocratically tried to push through a blanket amnesty bill.

As for me not offering a solution, well if I did you'd probably say I shouldn't do that as as a foreigner I'm a guest only. Now your attitude seems to imply only one solution, let the Thaksin thinks, Pheu Thai led government continue raping the country.

[scorecard]

To be honest the reform that the PTP is thinking of and what the others are thinking are two different things, the level of corruption at high levels in the administration dictates that the only way forward for the PTP is bulldozing through their own brand of reforms and therein lies the problem , unless everyone is on the same page , in- fighting and protests will continue.

When did the PTP bulldozing through their own brand of reforms???

Amnesty Bill.

Amnesty bill a reform bill?

BTW, with the behind the scene negotiated blanket amnesty bill gone, can we see the trials of PAD leaders without postponing again? Can we have trial on RS/UDD who are still in prisons without trial. Can we see the arrest and charging of coup makers, supporters and financiers?

But you forgot to mention hearing of the terrorism etc., charges files against numerous red / udd leaders in regard to the 2010 situation.

One suspects you have a deliberate selective memory.

[billd766]

Ahhh come on stop being so loose with the details..... this is a broken record. What kind of statement is that ??? DETAILS please or go find a Dem that can actually outline a proposal properly... get rid of this lame duck where the heck is Korn ?

Would it be anything like the reform that the PTP have (not) proposed?

I assume as a supporter you must know all the ins and outs of their policy.

[Thait Spot]

Your cherry picks on what other said is again showing your arrogant behaviour. I also agreed that you

"you consistently post in ways that are derogatory and condescending towards posters you disagree with.

You don't say posters you disagree with are wrong, you consistently say posters you disagree with haven't any brains."

I just searched the entire news forum for posts from me featuring the word "brains" in 2014 - other than those from Publicus and iCommunity, there was none

Oh ya! I just searched the entire news forum for all posts using the word 'brain' including the one I used on this thread and I found none - including mine on this thread. May be it takes a long time to index. LOL.

You must be doing it wrong.

Try brains

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[icommunity]

When did the PTP bulldozing through their own brand of reforms???

Amnesty Bill.

Amnesty bill a reform bill?

BTW, with the behind the scene negotiated blanket amnesty bill gone, can we see the trials of PAD leaders without postponing again? Can we have trial on RS/UDD who are still in prisons without trial. Can we see the arrest and charging of coup makers, supporters and financiers?

But you forgot to mention hearing of the terrorism etc., charges files against numerous red / udd leaders in regard to the 2010 situation.

One suspects you have a deliberate selective memory.

I think you either did not read or deliberately leave out what I mentioned:

Can we have trial on RS/UDD who are still in prisons without trial.

[icommunity]

Your cherry picks on what other said is again showing your arrogant behaviour. I also agreed that you

"you consistently post in ways that are derogatory and condescending towards posters you disagree with.

You don't say posters you disagree with are wrong, you consistently say posters you disagree with haven't any brains."

I just searched the entire news forum for posts from me featuring the word "brains" in 2014 - other than those from Publicus and iCommunity, there was none

Oh ya! I just searched the entire news forum for all posts using the word 'brain' including the one I used on this thread and I found none - including mine on this thread. May be it takes a long time to index. LOL.

You must be doing it wrong.

Try brains

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Hahahaha.

[Kan Win]

I think they will NOT vote for them again, the ones that did vote as you said, the Dems, as their Dem Party let this Country down and their own supports.

Me think it was more like 16 million as there are only approx. 46 million that have the right to vote and the PT got 20 million or so.

The rest went to the other Parties that contested in the Last Elections.

Please correct me if me sums are wong!

your sums are wrong.. 20 million voted in total that was including no votes, votes for other candidates (seemingly there were 54 parties in the election) and invalid votes..

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2014

Sorry for not being Very Clear on this matter.

I was referring to When the Dem Party contested in their Last Elections

Thank you for your post by the way to clear up the mess that I made in me the quote above

Sawadee

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. This is not about the events in 2010.

[3NUMBAS]

he is not in a position to set any conditions as he is an ex politician with a murder case on his hands

[Thaddeus]

he is not in a position to set any conditions as he is an ex politician with a murder case on his hands

He is not in a position to set any conditions as he is an ex politician with several thousand murder cases on his hands, and ran away like a scared little girl, and now plays with politics from the relative comfort of his own sand-pit.

Thieves flee, men of conviction stay and answer the accusations.

Over to you.

[beowolf2012]

Yes, and what then??? ....
If there is no freedom for a general election so the choice is not democratically's all there is to say about it .....

Edited February 13, 2014 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[djjamie]

So if you don't like the winners, you declare them 'undemocratic' and put in your own lot to 'guide' the country with true wisdom!!

Tilac2

​Nah…I mean just what I said. Elections are a gateway to allow a party to show the people it is democratic. However it is pertinent to highlight that demagogues do put words into other peoples mouths to ensure the in-group is correct and the out group is demonized. So well done for AGAIN for being the 6th PTP supporter that has been pulled up on TVF that I have seen that when arguing a point is actually in fact arguing for the very thing they purport to denounce.

Not only did you demagogue me you stated "I love that phrase of Djjamie's: 'post ballot box democracy' - a real classic!" Yet you STILL could not back it up with anything.That was it. End of sentence? So….what do you love about my phrase about post ballot box democracy? That democracy continues? That it ceases? That it is abused?

You guys just can't seem to get a break heay.

Come on. Tell me the principles of democracy? I have asked UDD supporters 3 times now and I still have no replies albeit ones that skirted the issue with smart a lek comments that again demonized the opposition.

[englishoak]

Ahhh come on stop being so loose with the details..... this is a broken record. What kind of statement is that ??? DETAILS please or go find a Dem that can actually outline a proposal properly... get rid of this lame duck where the heck is Korn ?

Would it be anything like the reform that the PTP have (not) proposed?

I assume as a supporter you must know all the ins and outs of their policy.

im not a PTP supporter and your quite right the PTP havnt proposed reform every 5 mins like a talking robot, if they had id be asking the same question... meat on the bone please or <deleted> lying to me with propaganda buzz words like reform without saying what or how

Edited February 12, 2014 by englishoak

[rebelplatoon]

"If the PM wants to safeguard democracy as she had said, she must accept the four wishes of the people," Abhisit said."

Same old, same old from someone frothing at the mouth about wanting to be PM. but rejected at every turn...A one-trick pony Elitist, thinking he doesn't need to reform himself or his party, so the electorate must.

As in this quote....."Four wishes of the people"?....Since when are these electoral minority coup-mongers and their shadowy supporters "The people"?........The people spoke on Feb. 2nd. and he is so afraid of what they said. He wants to 'deep-six' their opinion.

Follow the bouncing ball of all this coup-intentioned noise - anti-amnesty stuff...then... anti-Thaksin opionating...then... anti-electoral activism...then...reform before election.... now.... nullify, the election......What next? ....At least they are consistent in one thing....The underpinning of it all. Coup-intentionism by those who cannot be elected by "The People"

Next time I will tell you what I really think

You clearly haven t got a clue and just repeat the newspaper s rhetoric. Last elections there was a difference of not even 13%. In government that should have translated in a difference of 22 seats. Instead - due to the adjustments the TRT made- it was 160 seats. If nearly half of the electorate voted for the Dems and they are elitist then check your mind in when writing posts like this. There is no elitist/ slave struggle. The farmers are getting screwed due to populist policies. And they are waking up. Time for you as well. What Thailand needs is an honest way of electing Governments and co operates for the farmers so they can reap the profits.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

[presscamera]

So Abhisit has taken his bat and ball, and says I am not going to play cricket until you change the rules. But won't say or elaborate on what the new rules are?

[rubl]

So Abhisit has taken his bat and ball, and says I am not going to play cricket until you change the rules. But won't say or elaborate on what the new rules are?

Don't you think it would be wrong for Abhisit to dictate rules ? wouldn't it be better to have a peoples forum with input from the people to set up new rules ?

[redsox44]

Four wishes of his ego! Once a commie alwaya a commie.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[presscamera]

So Abhisit has taken his bat and ball, and says I am not going to play cricket until you change the rules. But won't say or elaborate on what the new rules are?

Don't you think it would be wrong for Abhisit to dictate rules ? wouldn't it be better to have a peoples forum with input from the people to set up new rules ?

I agree it would be wrong for Abhisit to dictate the rules. But my concern is that who will be included in the so called "peoples forum"?

Thailand has been through this many times before and new Constitutions have been put in Place.

The Current Government was elected through a vote of the majority of the people in Thailand.

There was an election due soon anyway. So if enough people think they have done a bad job they can be voted out.

So why all the Drama which is damaging Thailands reputation Overseas. I didn't like the results of last election in Australia.

But I am not firing Grenades and guns at the people who voted for the current Government.

[rubl]

So Abhisit has taken his bat and ball, and says I am not going to play cricket until you change the rules. But won't say or elaborate on what the new rules are?

Don't you think it would be wrong for Abhisit to dictate rules ? wouldn't it be better to have a peoples forum with input from the people to set up new rules ?

I agree it would be wrong for Abhisit to dictate the rules. But my concern is that who will be included in the so called "peoples forum"?

Thailand has been through this many times before and new Constitutions have been put in Place.

The Current Government was elected through a vote of the majority of the people in Thailand.

There was an election due soon anyway. So if enough people think they have done a bad job they can be voted out.

So why all the Drama which is damaging Thailands reputation Overseas. I didn't like the results of last election in Australia.

But I am not firing Grenades and guns at the people who voted for the current Government.

The firing grenades at people who voted for the current government is not correct. Even if you accept k. Chalerm's statement that the PDRC do it to themselves it would still be at the people who now are anti-government protesters and probably didn't vote for Pheu Thai.

Firing at peope is done by both sides, although when anti-government protesters are shot at and get grenades lobbed on them they're likely to shoot back. This is Thailand after all.

Edited February 13, 2014 by rubl

[jayboy]

So Abhisit has taken his bat and ball, and says I am not going to play cricket until you change the rules. But won't say or elaborate on what the new rules are?

Don't you think it would be wrong for Abhisit to dictate rules ? wouldn't it be better to have a peoples forum with input from the people to set up new rules ?

That's an interesting and innovative thought.You mean that the people should choose representatives for an assembly and then after due course confirm them or otherwise according to how well they perform.It's rather like a democratic system where the people choose members for parliament.Oops I forgot..you don't like rhat idea.

[rubl]

So Abhisit has taken his bat and ball, and says I am not going to play cricket until you change the rules. But won't say or elaborate on what the new rules are?

Don't you think it would be wrong for Abhisit to dictate rules ? wouldn't it be better to have a peoples forum with input from the people to set up new rules ?

That's an interesting and innovative thought.You mean that the people should choose representatives for an assembly and then after due course confirm them or otherwise according to how well they perform.It's rather like a democratic system where the people choose members for parliament.Oops I forgot..you don't like rhat idea.

I'm from a well established democratic country where not in my lifetime we have had a less than three party coalition government with no party larger than 35% or so. Somethings may be discussed a bit too long, but consensus is slowly build rather than forced-through decisions.

Now back to Thailand where Pheu Thai as 80% majority partner in a coalition government was talking about 'we won, we have a mandate' and tried to do all for their great thinker, Thaksin the golf caddy. Their last move while in government was the blatantly altered blanket amnesty bill which even covered Thaksin's last two years and Yinglucks first two in government. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Such undemocratic behaviour calls for better checks and balances which may seem to be against Pheu Thai only but will be valid for ALL.

Edited February 13, 2014 by rubl

[Crushdepth]

As in this quote....."Four wishes of the people"?....Since when are these electoral minority coup-mongers and their shadowy supporters "The people"?........The people spoke on Feb. 2nd. and he is so afraid of what they said. He wants to 'deep-six' their opinion.

The people (most of them) voted already.

43 million (roughly) of the population were eligible to vote, yet only 20 million (roughly) did so out of a population of 70 million or so. That's less than 30% of the entire population. And (let's say) PT got around 50% of that vote, it means PT are only approved by around 15% of the population.

Is my maths correct? Did "the people" really vote for PT this time around?

it was(is) a democratic election. So PT got the majority. That's fact! Changes could be done ONLY in parliament, not by street people who got a big mouth only but no brain.

You might want to read the figures again . . . to date:

The EC announced that as many as 20.1 million out of 43.024 million eligible voters submitted votes in 68 provinces where voting was not disrupted by protestors, with 71.38 percent of those ballots valid, 12.05 percent invalid and 16.57 percent "no-vote".

43 million eligible voters

20 million voted

71% valid votes

12% invalid

17% no vote

So, if 20 million voted (i.e just under 47% of total eligible voters), and we assume PT got the entire 71% of those valid votes (which they won't as there are other parties involved), that means they effectively received less than 35% of the total votes available to be cast. How is this a majority?

Yes, there are still places that need to cast a vote, but these are predominantly in areas that are NOT pro-Govt so those numbers for PT will actually decline overall by the time this ends.

<shriek>IT'S A MAJORITY, IT'S A MAJORITY LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU IT'S A MAJORITY</shriek>

A majority of a minority

[Publicus]

Mods/Admin are not the issue here - I'd already said they are extremely busy in an extraordinary, hectic time at TFV.

The issue here is your crude and vulgar choice of word, same as Abhisit at around the same time.

If you are not going to correct yourself, if you are unwilling to admit to your immoderate choice of a word that is OTT in its intemperate and widely offensive nature, then you lose any credibility you may ever have had, which is not much to begin with as you consistently post in ways that are derogatory and condescending towards posters you disagree with.

You don't say posters you disagree with are wrong, you consistently say posters you disagree with haven't any brains.

If you are not going to correct you post, you will require me to report it and if you don't care about that, then your credibility will go from zero to minus one hundred.

Did somebody die and appoint you on the CMPO?

You have the license to call someone "the Shinawat bitch"?

No you don't, because that exceeds license by being licentious.

Which makes you OTT in your crude and vulgar rhetoric.

So you must learn the nature of civil discourse - it's a basic matter you continue to actively reject.

You and Abhisit both.