Farmers call time on Yingluck's rice farce

[Gonzo the Face]

@BlueNoseCodger

There's none so blind as them as won't see

Then enlighten me, because I crunch the numbers and this story is garbage.

Also the motives involved, on the one hand Suthep is blocking bank loans to farmers and spoiling bond sales from the government, and the next minute he's trying to cosy up to farmers and pretend to encourage bank loans.

One minute their vote is 'not quality/worthless' and the next he's cuddling them in a show of support!

I would like to make a suggestion. Very democratic process by 1 member., 1 vote.....and the proposal is to petition the TV management to change a members name to something more appropiate for use.

We could then vote of whether it would be better to have Member BlueNoseCodger renamed to RedNosedCodger, or BrownNoseCodger....

The current name just doesn't seem to fit.

[BlueNoseCodger]

@BlueNoseCodger

There's none so blind as them as won't see

Then enlighten me, because I crunch the numbers and this story is garbage.

Also the motives involved, on the one hand Suthep is blocking bank loans to farmers and spoiling bond sales from the government, and the next minute he's trying to cosy up to farmers and pretend to encourage bank loans.

One minute their vote is 'not quality/worthless' and the next he's cuddling them in a show of support!

I would like to make a suggestion. Very democratic process by 1 member., 1 vote.....and the proposal is to petition the TV management to change a members name to something more appropiate for use.

We could then vote of whether it would be better to have Member BlueNoseCodger renamed to RedNosedCodger, or BrownNoseCodger....

The current name just doesn't seem to fit.

Bluenose from the veins in my nose, codger from my many years.

Not everything is about politics.

[ramrod711]

Lets cover some of the fluff. The substance of the article I covered in this comment.

At least five farmers have committed suicide.

Suthep's protests have so far killed 10 people, 6 people alone got shot at Laksi by his guards.

Millions of rice-growers are being saddled with insurmountable debt. When farmers, who are the backbone of the country, go bankrupt, how will Thailand remain standing?

Suthep is trying to block bank loans to them, so they're stuck with expensive black market loans.

So this statement is pure hypocritical garbage:

Suthep Thaugsuban, leader of the Occupy Bangkok Movement, has received Bt24 million in donations from the public and handed it over to pay for the farmers' legal fees and other court expenses.

And as long as the EC delays elections, then the government can't borrow to pay the bills either. It can't pay out in seats that haven't voted for fear of being accused of vote buying. So if Nation really wanted to help the farmers, it should be campainging to get the elections done in accordance with the Constitution of Thailand.

Fact; Thaksin has rejoined the wealthiest people in the world list, saying that his country had just sent him 30 billion baht. You would cry her innocence if Yingluck was found at the border in a brinks truck loaded with money. How you can stand up for these people idon't know, but it makes me sick.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Missing from this discussion is the reality of the world rice market. There's a tremendous oversupply in the market, as technological farming advances (China, India and Vietnam) have dramatically increased the supply of Asian-grown rice. At the same time, world rice consumption, particularly in the Philippines and Nigeria, is declining. In 2013, Thailand tried to dump its rice stocks on the market, but the price asked, even after being lowered, was $120 higher per tonne than other Asian producers. Hence, the rice has piled up in warehouses, and, now that the farmers are protesting, the government is forced into a "fire sale" (the irony is overwhelming), in an already oversupplied market.

Best thing would be to provide transparent accounting, get the highest value for the rice in the current market, and admit taxpayers will get soaked for the huge shortfall. However, with the loss of face thing and inevitable criminal prosecution for corruption in the scheme, this will most likely all get swept under the rug, with a few PTP members taking the fall.

Edited February 14, 2014 by zaphodbeeblebrox

[Ulic]

The answer is simple, follow the money with forensic accountants, lengthy jail sentences for those who benefited

illegally from this poorly thought out scheme and confiscation of family assets to pay back the Thai people.

[mightyatom]

@BlueNoseCodger

There's none so blind as them as won't see

Then enlighten me, because I crunch the numbers and this story is garbage.

Also the motives involved, on the one hand Suthep is blocking bank loans to farmers and spoiling bond sales from the government, and the next minute he's trying to cosy up to farmers and pretend to encourage bank loans.

One minute their vote is 'not quality/worthless' and the next he's cuddling them in a show of support!

All your posts so far in this thread are idiotic and I am not surprised that they have not got a single 'like' even your supporters have abandoned you on this one.

Also, Suthep does not need to block banks, he knows that no way will the banks lend the 130 billion required. There is just no way the bank's board is going to allow it when the depositors, the banking unions and the bank staff are all screaming out in opposition to it. Regardless of Suthep.

Don't forget when the PDRC marched to the Gov Savings Bank it was because they were begged by the bank's staff to intervene for fear of the bank going bus t and them all losing their jobs along with all the depositors losing their funds.

stop backing up a corrupt government who would not piss on you if you were on fire mate.

[Baerboxer]

The answer is simple, follow the money with forensic accountants, lengthy jail sentences for those who benefited

illegally from this poorly thought out scheme and confiscation of family assets to pay back the Thai people.

This would make a great case study, and occupy an army of forensic accountants for some time!

I'm sure a lot of people have made a lot of money out of this scheme - some through skimming, carrying out unnecessary work, fraudulent pledges and fraudulent sales. The inventory checks and records of receipts and sales, checks on exports, would all take some time, but no doubt be a happy hunting ground.

This is unlikely to happen - but would be great to see.

[Jonmarleesco]

'Yingluck Shinawatra, from the outset, was willing to risk this staggering amount of taxpayers' money.' Of course she was; it was, after all, only taxpayers' money, and how many taxpayers voted for PTP?

[bikerider21]

Dream on Jail time ......LOL

War crime tribunals take place long after the crimes take place. Surely we can look forward to rice crime tribunals before we all pass on?

We need somebody like Elliot Ness with infinite powers to sort out the corruption.

[tingtongfarang]

The answer is simple, follow the money with forensic accountants, lengthy jail sentences for those who benefited

illegally from this poorly thought out scheme and confiscation of family assets to pay back the Thai people.

This would make a great case study, and occupy an army of forensic accountants for some time!

I'm sure a lot of people have made a lot of money out of this scheme - some through skimming, carrying out unnecessary work, fraudulent pledges and fraudulent sales. The inventory checks and records of receipts and sales, checks on exports, would all take some time, but no doubt be a happy hunting ground.

This is unlikely to happen - but would be great to see.

The paper shredding machines have been working 24-7 since ptp realized it was all going pear shaped for them, infact they already said much of it was lost in the floods

[Robby nz]

Another consequence of the scheme has been the deterioration of the amount of rice grown per rai by Thai farmers.

They have abandoned quality and best practice in order to get as much rice per year to the scheme as possible and this has backfired badly.

Rather than encouraging developing better strains and better practice, like Vietnam for instance, the farmers here on the central plain have been putting in the next crop as soon as one is harvested , they have also for the most part abandoned the old practice of transplanting seedlings grown in nursery plots for broadcasting seed which gives only haphazard coverage, the result a drop in yield per rai.

I read that Vietnamese farmers are now getting almost 3 times the tonnage of rice per rai more than the Thai farmers.

That means that that even if prices are lower they are still getting much more for their work than the Thai farmers, or in other words Thai farmers are working 3 times as hard for their money.

Had the money spent on the scheme been spent on research and development and assisting the farmers to up the yield per rai everyone would have been better off.

That is where the effort should be going from now on not putting more money into subsidies.

[tezzainoz]

This amount is equivalent to the standby credit that the IMF set aside for Thailand in 1997 when the country went bankrupt at the height of the baht crisis

Thailand current GDP $645 billion (source CIA factbook), i.e. 2.5% of Thailand GDP. 1997 GDP was $150 billion (from Wikipedia in todays dollars), i.e. the economy is more than 4 times bigger than it was in 1997.

Crude scaremongering propaganda.

The same truckloads of paddy are going into the scheme, coming out, then going back in again, in a procession Thais liken to wien thien - pilgrims circling the temple

Some corruption no doubt. I note Bluesky hinted that the LopBuri fire might be to cover missing stock. It burned 14 tonnes, i.e. 14 /20,000,000 = 0.00007% of Thai rice production. And the unproven claim they make is a missing 3500 tonnes, i.e. 3500 / 20,000,000 = 0.02%. Yet they use the word 'rampant' for 0.02%! More propaganda.

Given this scheme replaced the Democrat subsidy, which was a paper transaction and far easier to corrupt, it likely reduced the corruption by making it harder to cover up! The rice would be missing so a stock count would reveal the missing rice! Which is why they claim the fire is a cover up.

The farmers have been calling for the government to pay them the money it owes since October - more than two months before Yingluck's House dissolution. But Yingluck and her ministers took no action

They issued a bond, which came out November 14th, sadly scuppered by Suthep's marches (started November 3rd).

Instead of resigning to assume responsibility for its failure, Yingluck insists on sticking with her caretaker-premier status, hoping that a miracle will bring her back to power. No chance.

She resigned as PM, that starts the constitutional election process. Your candidate didn't want to win votes, he wouldn't even stand for election, he just simply decided that he should have power and yet he's not even the leader of the Democrats let alone the elected PM.

My dad told me never to try and talk with a fool

He always said he will win every time with experience

so I learn there are many fools in life

but only a few are stupid enough to open theur mouth's and prove it

[tezzainoz]

Lets cover some of the fluff. The substance of the article I covered in this comment.

At least five farmers have committed suicide.

Suthep's protests have so far killed 10 people, 6 people alone got shot at Laksi by his guards.

Millions of rice-growers are being saddled with insurmountable debt. When farmers, who are the backbone of the country, go bankrupt, how will Thailand remain standing?

Suthep is trying to block bank loans to them, so they're stuck with expensive black market loans.

So this statement is pure hypocritical garbage:

Suthep Thaugsuban, leader of the Occupy Bangkok Movement, has received Bt24 million in donations from the public and handed it over to pay for the farmers' legal fees and other court expenses.

And as long as the EC delays elections, then the government can't borrow to pay the bills either. It can't pay out in seats that haven't voted for fear of being accused of vote buying. So if Nation really wanted to help the farmers, it should be campainging to get the elections done in accordance with the Constitution of Thailand.

Mhhhh

if you did more reading you would know that the protestors have already offered this solution

but in the time it will take too much is being revealed about all the scams

Yingluck wants an election no so she can cover up all the scams she is involved in

[BIGTOE3]

This amount is equivalent to the standby credit that the IMF set aside for Thailand in 1997 when the country went bankrupt at the height of the baht crisis

Thailand current GDP $645 billion (source CIA factbook), i.e. 2.5% of Thailand GDP. 1997 GDP was $150 billion (from Wikipedia in todays dollars), i.e. the economy is more than 4 times bigger than it was in 1997.

Crude scaremongering propaganda.

The same truckloads of paddy are going into the scheme, coming out, then going back in again, in a procession Thais liken to wien thien - pilgrims circling the temple

Some corruption no doubt. I note Bluesky hinted that the LopBuri fire might be to cover missing stock. It burned 14 tonnes, i.e. 14 /20,000,000 = 0.00007% of Thai rice production. And the unproven claim they make is a missing 3500 tonnes, i.e. 3500 / 20,000,000 = 0.02%. Yet they use the word 'rampant' for 0.02%! More propaganda.

Given this scheme replaced the Democrat subsidy, which was a paper transaction and far easier to corrupt, it likely reduced the corruption by making it harder to cover up! The rice would be missing so a stock count would reveal the missing rice! Which is why they claim the fire is a cover up.

The farmers have been calling for the government to pay them the money it owes since October - more than two months before Yingluck's House dissolution. But Yingluck and her ministers took no action

They issued a bond, which came out November 14th, sadly scuppered by Suthep's marches (started November 3rd).

Instead of resigning to assume responsibility for its failure, Yingluck insists on sticking with her caretaker-premier status, hoping that a miracle will bring her back to power. No chance.

She resigned as PM, that starts the constitutional election process. Your candidate didn't want to win votes, he wouldn't even stand for election, he just simply decided that he should have power and yet he's not even the leader of the Democrats let alone the elected PM.

My dad told me never to try and talk with a fool

He always said he will win every time with experience

so I learn there are many fools in life

but only a few are stupid enough to open theur mouth's and prove it

I agree as my Mum used to say -

It is better to be thought a fool than open one's mouth and remove all doubt Same Same as Blue concerned.

BT

[tezzainoz]

@BlueNoseCodger

There's none so blind as them as won't see

Then enlighten me, because I crunch the numbers and this story is garbage.

Also the motives involved, on the one hand Suthep is blocking bank loans to farmers and spoiling bond sales from the government, and the next minute he's trying to cosy up to farmers and pretend to encourage bank loans.

One minute their vote is 'not quality/worthless' and the next he's cuddling them in a show of support!

you crunch the numbers and use bullsh*t figures and innuendo, you biased one sided garbage is nothing but fantasy. If this scheme was above board why cant the ptp even give up to date figyures on any of it, why cant they say how much rice has been stored/rotted/sold, why cant they tell us how much money has been lost on iot or even where it has gone. All you are quoting is crap and nothing to do with any of it, you simply avoid telling the truth and try to use lies and innuendo, the brown rings on your ankles are really showing up now.

Thailand current GDP $645 billion came from CIA factbook, this link

Thailand 1997 GDP, $150 billion came from Wikipedia, "GDP at current prices USD billions... 150.891).

From the article "The Yingluck government earmarked Bt500 billion (US$16 billion-$17 billion) for the rice scheme." 16/645 = 2.48% rounded up to 2.5% of GDP

From the article "Thailand produces about 20 million tonnes of rice a year", 3500 tonnes of rice missing accusation came from here.

My allegation that the Democrats scheme was easier to corrupt is based on the fact their scheme is a subsidy, which doesn't itself cause a transfer of physical goods. i.e. any irregularities in PT's scheme can be detected by a stock check.

The 14th Novermber bond failed and that was likely caused by Sutheps attempt to overthrow the government starting 3rd November.

You are quoting figures from a government more corrupt than Yingluck

a government that says it was attacking Iraq because they had weapons of mass distruction

only in the CIA dreams

Sorry I trust Yingluck more than any thing the USA says

[BlueNoseCodger]

This amount is equivalent to the standby credit that the IMF set aside for Thailand in 1997 when the country went bankrupt at the height of the baht crisis

Thailand current GDP $645 billion (source CIA factbook), i.e. 2.5% of Thailand GDP. 1997 GDP was $150 billion (from Wikipedia in todays dollars), i.e. the economy is more than 4 times bigger than it was in 1997.

Crude scaremongering propaganda.

The same truckloads of paddy are going into the scheme, coming out, then going back in again, in a procession Thais liken to wien thien - pilgrims circling the temple

Some corruption no doubt. I note Bluesky hinted that the LopBuri fire might be to cover missing stock. It burned 14 tonnes, i.e. 14 /20,000,000 = 0.00007% of Thai rice production. And the unproven claim they make is a missing 3500 tonnes, i.e. 3500 / 20,000,000 = 0.02%. Yet they use the word 'rampant' for 0.02%! More propaganda.

Given this scheme replaced the Democrat subsidy, which was a paper transaction and far easier to corrupt, it likely reduced the corruption by making it harder to cover up! The rice would be missing so a stock count would reveal the missing rice! Which is why they claim the fire is a cover up.

The farmers have been calling for the government to pay them the money it owes since October - more than two months before Yingluck's House dissolution. But Yingluck and her ministers took no action

They issued a bond, which came out November 14th, sadly scuppered by Suthep's marches (started November 3rd).

Instead of resigning to assume responsibility for its failure, Yingluck insists on sticking with her caretaker-premier status, hoping that a miracle will bring her back to power. No chance.

She resigned as PM, that starts the constitutional election process. Your candidate didn't want to win votes, he wouldn't even stand for election, he just simply decided that he should have power and yet he's not even the leader of the Democrats let alone the elected PM.

My dad told me never to try and talk with a fool

He always said he will win every time with experience

so I learn there are many fools in life

but only a few are stupid enough to open theur mouth's and prove it

My dad taught me, that when a person can't counter an argument, they are reduced to insults. It's a sign they have no counter argument.

I take it as a sign that I have won.

tezzainoz, you doubt the CIA factbook GDP figure for Thailand, so please find an alternate number and explain how its more credible. I view the CIA factbook as reliable for numbers like this. Edited February 14, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[tezzainoz]

My dad taught me, that when a person can't counter an argument, they are reduced to insults. It's a sign they have no counter argument.

you should have listen to him

why stick you neck out if you know what the end result will be

[BlueNoseCodger]

@BlueNoseCodger

There's none so blind as them as won't see

Then enlighten me, because I crunch the numbers and this story is garbage.

Also the motives involved, on the one hand Suthep is blocking bank loans to farmers and spoiling bond sales from the government, and the next minute he's trying to cosy up to farmers and pretend to encourage bank loans.

One minute their vote is 'not quality/worthless' and the next he's cuddling them in a show of support!

All your posts so far in this thread are idiotic and I am not surprised that they have not got a single 'like' even your supporters have abandoned you on this one.

Also, Suthep does not need to block banks, he knows that no way will the banks lend the 130 billion required. There is just no way the bank's board is going to allow it when the depositors, the banking unions and the bank staff are all screaming out in opposition to it. Regardless of Suthep.

Don't forget when the PDRC marched to the Gov Savings Bank it was because they were begged by the bank's staff to intervene for fear of the bank going bus t and them all losing their jobs along with all the depositors losing their funds.

stop backing up a corrupt government who would not piss on you if you were on fire mate.

I added a like to your post. Not because I agree with it, but because it insulted me, and I view insults as a sign of winning.

Government debt is the government debt whoever is in power. It has the same validity as any other Thai sovereign debt, and would have the same validity if the Dems got into power.

PDRC lobbied to kill the loan for purely selfish political purposes.

[Added, how exactly do you think Suthep would pay the farmers? He'd issue bonds if he was allowed, or borrow from banks if he was not. That debt is Thai soverign debt as is about as good a debt as you can find in Thailand. So how is he protecting GSB from decent interest bearing sovereign debt?! The very same debt he would have to issue if he had managed in his power grab!]

Edited February 14, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[BlueNoseCodger]

This amount is equivalent to the standby credit that the IMF set aside for Thailand in 1997 when the country went bankrupt at the height of the baht crisis

Thailand current GDP $645 billion (source CIA factbook), i.e. 2.5% of Thailand GDP. 1997 GDP was $150 billion (from Wikipedia in todays dollars), i.e. the economy is more than 4 times bigger than it was in 1997.

Crude scaremongering propaganda.

The same truckloads of paddy are going into the scheme, coming out, then going back in again, in a procession Thais liken to wien thien - pilgrims circling the temple

Some corruption no doubt. I note Bluesky hinted that the LopBuri fire might be to cover missing stock. It burned 14 tonnes, i.e. 14 /20,000,000 = 0.00007% of Thai rice production. And the unproven claim they make is a missing 3500 tonnes, i.e. 3500 / 20,000,000 = 0.02%. Yet they use the word 'rampant' for 0.02%! More propaganda.

Given this scheme replaced the Democrat subsidy, which was a paper transaction and far easier to corrupt, it likely reduced the corruption by making it harder to cover up! The rice would be missing so a stock count would reveal the missing rice! Which is why they claim the fire is a cover up.

The farmers have been calling for the government to pay them the money it owes since October - more than two months before Yingluck's House dissolution. But Yingluck and her ministers took no action

They issued a bond, which came out November 14th, sadly scuppered by Suthep's marches (started November 3rd).

Instead of resigning to assume responsibility for its failure, Yingluck insists on sticking with her caretaker-premier status, hoping that a miracle will bring her back to power. No chance.

She resigned as PM, that starts the constitutional election process. Your candidate didn't want to win votes, he wouldn't even stand for election, he just simply decided that he should have power and yet he's not even the leader of the Democrats let alone the elected PM.

I still await any substantive response to this post.

[Bluespunk]

This amount is equivalent to the standby credit that the IMF set aside for Thailand in 1997 when the country went bankrupt at the height of the baht crisis

Thailand current GDP $645 billion (source CIA factbook), i.e. 2.5% of Thailand GDP. 1997 GDP was $150 billion (from Wikipedia in todays dollars), i.e. the economy is more than 4 times bigger than it was in 1997.

Crude scaremongering propaganda.

The same truckloads of paddy are going into the scheme, coming out, then going back in again, in a procession Thais liken to wien thien - pilgrims circling the temple

Some corruption no doubt. I note Bluesky hinted that the LopBuri fire might be to cover missing stock. It burned 14 tonnes, i.e. 14 /20,000,000 = 0.00007% of Thai rice production. And the unproven claim they make is a missing 3500 tonnes, i.e. 3500 / 20,000,000 = 0.02%. Yet they use the word 'rampant' for 0.02%! More propaganda.

Given this scheme replaced the Democrat subsidy, which was a paper transaction and far easier to corrupt, it likely reduced the corruption by making it harder to cover up! The rice would be missing so a stock count would reveal the missing rice! Which is why they claim the fire is a cover up.

The farmers have been calling for the government to pay them the money it owes since October - more than two months before Yingluck's House dissolution. But Yingluck and her ministers took no action

They issued a bond, which came out November 14th, sadly scuppered by Suthep's marches (started November 3rd).

Instead of resigning to assume responsibility for its failure, Yingluck insists on sticking with her caretaker-premier status, hoping that a miracle will bring her back to power. No chance.

She resigned as PM, that starts the constitutional election process. Your candidate didn't want to win votes, he wouldn't even stand for election, he just simply decided that he should have power and yet he's not even the leader of the Democrats let alone the elected PM.

I still await any substantive response to this post.

You refuse to accept that PT has betrayed the farmers by taking their rice under their inept rice policy and then failing to pay for it, you still want us to believe that suthep is a dem, you refuse to accept the evidence that the rice scheme is riddled with corruption and claim that any criticism of the side you have chosen to support is propaganda.

I disagree with you on every point.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Bluespunk