Pensions: My wife needs a National Insurance No. to claim. Can she get one?

[Pormax]

This I feel will be of interest to many elderly ex-pats who have a UK pension, live in Thailand, married to a Thai national..

Recently I have been trying to get my affairs in order and leave precise instructions for my wife for when I die as she is quite a bit younger than me and the odds are strongly in favour of me passing on before her.

Yes a bit morbid but we will all die sometime and it would be extremely difficult for my wife to claim my pensions without leaving instructions as to what she to do. Her spoken English is fairly good as long it is in simple terms but reading and writing is very poor.

During my enquiries with a Company that I have a Self Invested Personal Pension Plan,I was told that as my wife does not have a National Insurance No. then she will be unable to take the a pension or 'draw down' as I am doing now, but must take the lump sum in the fund.

Now this is not too much of a problem at least she will recieve what is left in the fund, but I also have an Armed Forces Pension and soon will be entitled to the State Retirement Pension. Should the same rule apply regarding a NI number for these other pensions, then she will recieve nothing.

I have for the last month been making enquiries regarding the answer but it is not easy.

Does anyone have an idea if my wife can get an NI number and if so how to go about it.

.

[Pormax]

It looks like no one knows the answer to the initial question.

Again for information I give you the following.

A Company with which I have a very small pension says it will not release any money on my death even with a copy of my will and a death certificate unless they see a 'Grant Of Probate'. However they will 'look at it' when the time comes. Very helpfull!!!!!

Now according to my research a 'Grant Of Probate' can only be applied for in the UK. Thailand does not have.

I have got around this by transferring the funds from this company to another of my pension providers.

[edwinchester]

It's 10 years since my Thai wife got her nat ins number in the UK so not sure if the rules are the same now. All she did was go along to the local DSS office and say that she was looking for work and they issued a number for her, simple as that.

Edit sorry just read youre in Thailand.

[homsiam]

If you make maried to the thai in your country i beleave it should not be a problem.But if she and you here in Thailand and not maried there vill be a problem.No insurance company in Thailand what i now can giwe the right answer.Hawe make my wife an citicen and workpermit in my homecountry so she work there now and get all the benefites there.And if i die she get it all.There is the way fore me in Sweden.GOOD LUCK

[wym]

It looks like no one knows the answer to the initial question.

Patience Pormax, someone who knows will be along, give it 24 hours or so.

Sure this hasn't come up, have you googled the site

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22National+Insurance%22+site%3AThaiVisa.com%2Fforum&hl=en&pws=0#hl=en&pws=0&q=UK+pension+%22National+Insurance%22+site:ThaiVisa.com%2Fforum

and/or checked out the related top couple of pinned topics?

[prakhonchai nick]

Your wife can only obtain a NI number, whilst you are alive, if she is in the UK, and looking for work.

Otherwise, she will be allocated a NI number automatically after your death, when she claims the bereavement benefits to which she is entitled. This is all done by the Pension Service.

To claim bereavement benefits (after your death) your wife will likely need help, as many documents are needed, with certifications, + the completion of a 16 page claim form.

With regard to the SIPP, she will likely have to wait for the Pension Service to allocate a NI number (can take up to 6 months)

[Jip99]

I believe that the DWP will allocate a NI number as part of the bereavement benefit claim process.

My occupational pension will automatically be paid to my partner, irrespective of NI number or not.

[Pormax]

 

Your wife can only obtain a NI number, whilst you are alive, if she is in the UK, and looking for work.

Otherwise, she will be allocated a NI number automatically after your death, when she claims the bereavement benefits to which she is entitled. This is all done by the Pension Service.

To claim bereavement benefits (after your death) your wife will likely need help, as many documents are needed, with certifications, + the completion of a 16 page claim form.

With regard to the SIPP, she will likely have to wait for the Pension Service to allocate a NI number (can take up to 6 months)

Thanks Nick for your reply,

According to queries I made via the telephone to the UK, my wife being a Thai National and living in Thailand will NOT be able to claim any death benefits including the one off lump sum one can normally claim of 2,000GBP, so I doubt that they would help getting her an NI No. Maybe the part of the Pension Service that deals with the State Pension will do this, but as yet haven;t been able to get an answer from them.

Yes you are correct with so many forms to complete on any claim made my wife will definetely need help and this in itself is a big concern of mine.

My daughter in the UK can help with phone calls and some paperwork but she will still have to find an English speaking expat to guide her.

I live in the same town as you. At leat by your 'name' I am guessing so but I live in a village where there are no other English Guys.

 

[CharlieH]

Having had to deal with this for a local Thai married to british guy who passed away.

I can tell you from my experience that as long as they correct forms etc are completed and the required evidence etc of death and relationship is supplied there is absolutely NO PROBLEM and she will be issued a NI number during the process so she can pay TAX !

[prakhonchai nick]

Having had to deal with this for a local Thai married to british guy who passed away.

I can tell you from my experience that as long as they correct forms etc are completed and the required evidence etc of death and relationship is supplied there is absolutely NO PROBLEM and she will be issued a NI number during the process so she can pay TAX !

Allocating a NI number is necessary to allow the Pension Service to make bereavement payments. As you say no problem if all the correct documents are supplied, but it is usually very slow. Having said that I have just received on behalf of a Thai widow, payment of bereavement benefits in less than 2 months since submitting the claim..

I have handled claims for many Thai widows. All payments have been made GROSS, and there have been no tax payments made or requested.`

[CharlieH]

Having had to deal with this for a local Thai married to british guy who passed away.

I can tell you from my experience that as long as they correct forms etc are completed and the required evidence etc of death and relationship is supplied there is absolutely NO PROBLEM and she will be issued a NI number during the process so she can pay TAX !

Allocating a NI number is necessary to allow the Pension Service to make bereavement payments. As you say no problem if all the correct documents are supplied, but it is usually very slow. Having said that I have just received on behalf of a Thai widow, payment of bereavement benefits in less than 2 months since submitting the claim..

I have handled claims for many Thai widows. All payments have been made GROSS, and there have been no tax payments made or requested.`

Give it time, the case I dealt with had initial bereavement payment, the ongoing pension schemes paying bi-annually and some monthly, she has since been inundated with various tax forms and demands, it really is riduculous the way they seem to be almost hounding her!

[Jip99]

Having had to deal with this for a local Thai married to british guy who passed away.

I can tell you from my experience that as long as they correct forms etc are completed and the required evidence etc of death and relationship is supplied there is absolutely NO PROBLEM and she will be issued a NI number during the process so she can pay TAX !

Allocating a NI number is necessary to allow the Pension Service to make bereavement payments. As you say no problem if all the correct documents are supplied, but it is usually very slow. Having said that I have just received on behalf of a Thai widow, payment of bereavement benefits in less than 2 months since submitting the claim..

I have handled claims for many Thai widows. All payments have been made GROSS, and there have been no tax payments made or requested.`

What I fail to understand is why the people at DWP consistently tell people (like the OP) that Thai widows are NOT entitled. It remains based on the husband's NI contributions - nothing to do with the widow's domicile or citizenship.

In 2016 the bereavement payment is likely to be GBP 5,000 or GBP 10,000 in some cases. Not to be sniffed at.

Note re Thai probate. Thailand does have probate but a sealed copy is not acceptable in the UK.

[sam sen]

due to her limited english ability your wife will certainly need assistance from someone you, and she, trusts.

suggest you to speak to the executor/s of your will and make sure they are clear on what your wishes are and the likely help your wife will need.

and check they are committed to helping her!

[prakhonchai nick]

 

Your wife can only obtain a NI number, whilst you are alive, if she is in the UK, and looking for work.

Otherwise, she will be allocated a NI number automatically after your death, when she claims the bereavement benefits to which she is entitled. This is all done by the Pension Service.

To claim bereavement benefits (after your death) your wife will likely need help, as many documents are needed, with certifications, + the completion of a 16 page claim form.

With regard to the SIPP, she will likely have to wait for the Pension Service to allocate a NI number (can take up to 6 months)

Thanks Nick for your reply,

According to queries I made via the telephone to the UK, my wife being a Thai National and living in Thailand will NOT be able to claim any death benefits including the one off lump sum one can normally claim of 2,000GBP, so I doubt that they would help getting her an NI No. Maybe the part of the Pension Service that deals with the State Pension will do this, but as yet haven;t been able to get an answer from them.

Yes you are correct with so many forms to complete on any claim made my wife will definetely need help and this in itself is a big concern of mine.

My daughter in the UK can help with phone calls and some paperwork but she will still have to find an English speaking expat to guide her.

I live in the same town as you. At leat by your 'name' I am guessing so but I live in a village where there are no other English Guys.

 

Pormax

You like most expats/widows have been wrongly advised. This happens continuously. I believe the Pension Service are prejudiced against us Thai expats and try and fob us off.

Bereavement benefits are available to all Thai widows, provided the British deceased has paid at least 1 NI contribution.. I have claimed for more than 10 Thai widows and have a 100% success rate in obtaining full benefits.

[evadgib]

Your Armed Forces Pension is bomb proof (if you'll pardon the pun). Widows entitlements are fully explained in their annual newsletter.

You may find the pinned topic at the top of the page informative.

HTH

[lungbing]

To the Original Poster:

For your wife to claim the bereavement benefit, form number BB1 has to be completed. There is nothing to stop you printing off the form now and filling in the vast majority of the information needed. The only thing you won't be able to fill in is the date of your death (page 3 and page 6 currently) and have your wife sign and date the form.

Form BB1 will probably change between now and your death, so tell her to print off the current form after your death and copy all your answers across to the new form, fill in the date of your death, sign and date the form and send it off. She will need to send her birth certificate, wedding certificate and your death certificate, all with certified translations. You can get the first two copied and have certified translations done now. And may the last one be many years from now. But you'll need lots of copies of the death certificate and certified translations for banks, pension firms, government offices here and UK.

Leave her details of your bank account, NI number, pension firm address, etc. You could draft letters for her for all the people she'll need to write to, just leave the date of your death blank and the date at the head of the letter blank. And what about informing your family and friends. Leave a list of email addresses and postal addresses for her to contact. The temple may not cremate you without a body release certificate from the British Embassy. The embassy are always informed of the death of a UK national by the police. The embassy will need your passport details to cancel it. Your local immigration will need copies of your visa to cancel it and will want the original landing card stapled in your passport returned to them, and the 90 day slip. There's so much. What about a will? Are your bank accounts in joint names. She'll need access to money when you're gone, your bank accounts will be frozen if they are in your name only, both here and UK.

I know it's morbid, but you can make it so much less traumatic for your wife (widow to be!) and if she's like mine she won't even want to talk about it, but you must.

[Pormax]

Thank you 'Lungbing' for your input.

Yes I have already done the majority of what you said. A will done, lists of contact numbers to be phoned and in that respect my daughter in UK also has a list regarding who to contact there. No problem with my bank accounts as she can get access to them at anytime.

Interesting what you say about the temple requiring a 'body release document'. I presume this will be issued by the British Embassy?

I also note what you say about visiting the local immigration office though I suspect this can be done a few days after the event.

Have you any ideas or contacts regarding getting Certified Translation of documents done. I asked the British Embassy but they were of little help.

Yes you are correct, whenever I try to sit the wife down and talk about this, she doesn't want to know. howeever I am gradually getting through to her that it is for her benefit to know.

Thankfully since starting this post someone has made contact who will be able to assist her when the time comes. I am very gratefull for that.

[F4UCorsair]

Contact your local MP back in the UK and get him/her on the job. That's what the bludgers are there for, to serve the public, those who fund their cushy lifestyles.

[APA]

As the OP was a member of the Services in the UK he would be entitled to help from the Royal British Legion Welfare Section. I would suggest he contacts the local branch of RBL and ask for a representative to contact him!

[al007]

A couple of observations, as a retired Chartered Accountant living in Thailand

I believe the inheritance tax exemption of free transfers to a wife, do not apply if the wife is nonresident, and nondomiciled in the UK and not a UK citizen

I used to have a Sipp but was told a UK grant of probate would be required, also the government may take 55% of the fund, esp if the wife is not UK or eu national

I now have a self administered QROPS, out of Gibraltar, this takes the earnings legally away from the UK tax man, ( I loose 2.5% tax to Gibraltar) on death only Thai death cert required and all will be distributed accoring to my wishes

I used to hold my investments with Interactive brokers in the UK, again on death UK probate required

So I opened USA Interactive Brokers Account, and they have confirmed on death onlt thailand death certificate will be required, I then transfered all investments to the hew account. My IAB account also allows margin trading with loans at around 1.25%, not for the unsophisticated or financially unaware person

I have a sterling bank account in the Isle of man that gives free international transfers, with my registered address as thailand; and again on death only Thai death cert will be required if amount low if higher IOM probate would be required but would be simple

I have UK govt state pension of approx 10,000 pounds per annum and have agreed with UK taxman no need to file UK tax return as income below higher age allowance, I have no assets in the UK and am now outside IHT and probate requirements

I have a THai/English will drawn up by a thai solicitor, with my solicitor and wife as joint executors

I have been happily married for some six years and soon may make my Interactive Brokers and IOM bank account into joint accounts, I would be the only one knowing passwords, so in the event of the awful happening all monies would be moved very quickly

[goonfan]

I thought that the UK Government had made changes to the Pension rules and that from 2016 foreign wives of ex-pats get nothing (it excludes those who already get it at that date). Is this not the case?

[prakhonchai nick]

I thought that the UK Government had made changes to the Pension rules and that from 2016 foreign wives of ex-pats get nothing (it excludes those who already get it at that date). Is this not the case?

The new rules still have not been finalised, Wives, whether in the UK, Thailand or elsewhere will only be eligible for the state pension if they have personally contributed. It will no longer be available based upon husbands NI contributions.

Bereavement benefits are being revamped. No widowed parents allowances in future. Just 2 flat payments of circa £5000 and £10,000 for widows who don't have eligible children, and those that do -respectively. No widowed parents allowances until the child reaches 18, as at present.

[thhMan]

It looks like no one knows the answer to the initial question.

I can bet you any money... Thais will know the answer.. its in their interest to know

[kinmaew]

Can a Farang do the same thing in Thailand?

[personchester]

 

Your wife can only obtain a NI number, whilst you are alive, if she is in the UK, and looking for work.

Otherwise, she will be allocated a NI number automatically after your death, when she claims the bereavement benefits to which she is entitled. This is all done by the Pension Service.

To claim bereavement benefits (after your death) your wife will likely need help, as many documents are needed, with certifications, + the completion of a 16 page claim form.

With regard to the SIPP, she will likely have to wait for the Pension Service to allocate a NI number (can take up to 6 months)

Thanks Nick for your reply,

According to queries I made via the telephone to the UK, my wife being a Thai National and living in Thailand will NOT be able to claim any death benefits including the one off lump sum one can normally claim of 2,000GBP, so I doubt that they would help getting her an NI No. Maybe the part of the Pension Service that deals with the State Pension will do this, but as yet haven;t been able to get an answer from them.

Yes you are correct with so many forms to complete on any claim made my wife will definetely need help and this in itself is a big concern of mine.

My daughter in the UK can help with phone calls and some paperwork but she will still have to find an English speaking expat to guide her.

I live in the same town as you. At leat by your 'name' I am guessing so but I live in a village where there are no other English Guys.

 

Pormax

You like most expats/widows have been wrongly advised. This happens continuously. I believe the Pension Service are prejudiced against us Thai expats and try and fob us off.

Bereavement benefits are available to all Thai widows, provided the British deceased has paid at least 1 NI contribution.. I have claimed for more than 10 Thai widows and have a 100% success rate in obtaining full benefits.

What are the 100% benefits ... is it just a one time bereavement payment or in addition also a monthly state pension payment based on the dead husbands state pension.

My Thai wife was initially with me in the UK for two years, she got the NI number, she will get bereavement payment plus part of my state pension, that is to say 100% of my state "Serps" pension and 60% of my basic state pension.

But UK pension matters can change of course particular for expats.

[kinmaew]

I remember one point where the question was asked "Why should a farang get any public hospital benefits in Thailand when they have never paid taxes in Thailand"

So can you please advise has your wife ever paid any taxes to HM government? If no, why should a Thai get anything from British taxpayers. If a farang was married to a Thai how do you think it would play out asking for social security or any type of benefits in Thailand when the Thai partner passes on. I think we all know the answer to that.

[thejcb]

I hate it when Thais take my hard earned tax money. They put nothing in. just take and take. This should be stopped. It is not right !

[prakhonchai nick]

I remember one point where the question was asked "Why should a farang get any public hospital benefits in Thailand when they have never paid taxes in Thailand"

So can you please advise has your wife ever paid any taxes to HM government? If no, why should a Thai get anything from British taxpayers. If a farang was married to a Thai how do you think it would play out asking for social security or any type of benefits in Thailand when the Thai partner passes on. I think we all know the answer to that.

Clearly the Thai gov't are not so stupid as the British governmenr -handing out taxpayer paid welfare benefits to all and sundry.

Even the changes from 2016 whilst effecting expats wives, will also effect all wives from wherever, including british wives. There will be no future pensions payable to wives who have not paid into the system.

Don't blame the expat or his wife/widow for claiming benefit. They are entitled under current rules. Blame the government, and next time vote in a government who will look after the True Brits only!

[nongsangcity]

my English friend died recently he was getting the state pension...his thai wife is much younger than him and they have a 6 year old son born in Thailand. she has just received the bereavement pay out of £ 2000 pounds...she not entitled to a widows pension as she is under 45 years of age...she is still waiting to here if she will get anything from the state pension for their 6 year old son......and she got a lump sum from a private pension scheme which my friend didn't even know he had...the paper work etc was done by one of his English grown up children in the UK.....does anybody know if the 6 year old child will receive any benefits from his dads contributions....

[cyborgx]

Your wife can only obtain a NI number, whilst you are alive, if she is in the UK, and looking for work.

Otherwise, she will be allocated a NI number automatically after your death, when she claims the bereavement benefits to which she is entitled. This is all done by the Pension Service.

To claim bereavement benefits (after your death) your wife will likely need help, as many documents are needed, with certifications, + the completion of a 16 page claim form.

With regard to the SIPP, she will likely have to wait for the Pension Service to allocate a NI number (can take up to 6 months)

Does this require a UK marriage certificate, or would a Thai Certificate be enough?

What other documents are required?

thx for the great info.