Pensions: My wife needs a National Insurance No. to claim. Can she get one?

[prakhonchai nick]

my English friend died recently he was getting the state pension...his thai wife is much younger than him and they have a 6 year old son born in Thailand. she has just received the bereavement pay out of £ 2000 pounds...she not entitled to a widows pension as she is under 45 years of age...she is still waiting to here if she will get anything from the state pension for their 6 year old son......and she got a lump sum from a private pension scheme which my friend didn't even know he had...the paper work etc was done by one of his English grown up children in the UK.....does anybody know if the 6 year old child will receive any benefits from his dads contributions....

She is entitled to a Widowed parents allowance, payable whilst her son is at school -up to 18/19. Payment weekly based on number of NI payments made (or could have been made) by late husband. Can be as much as £110 a week, for around 12 years!

Specific documentation relevant to the son would need to be provided to the pension Service. (birth cert, school letter etc)

[prakhonchai nick]

Your wife can only obtain a NI number, whilst you are alive, if she is in the UK, and looking for work.

Otherwise, she will be allocated a NI number automatically after your death, when she claims the bereavement benefits to which she is entitled. This is all done by the Pension Service.

To claim bereavement benefits (after your death) your wife will likely need help, as many documents are needed, with certifications, + the completion of a 16 page claim form.

With regard to the SIPP, she will likely have to wait for the Pension Service to allocate a NI number (can take up to 6 months)

Does this require a UK marriage certificate, or would a Thai Certificate be enough?

What other documents are required?

thx for the great info.

A Thai marriage certificate is accepted in the UK. Would need to be translated and certified/notarised. Easier and cheaper to have that done in Thailand than in the UK.

The Job Centre would have to advise re any other documents that may be required.

[smotherb]

Why take any of this second-hand information--it is likely old, out of context, misinterpreted, or just plain wrong. Get in touch with your pension providers and ask.

[cassde]

My Thai wife will get 50 percent of my two occupational pensions but I am ingerested to read she may also be entitled to the Bereavement allowance.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[HullyGully]

I have a UK SIPP and my understanding is:-

If the wife takes a cash lump sum from the pension, that would be taxable at I think 45%, so if it was 100,000 the wife would get 55K

If she takes an income from the pension, then she keeps the full amount of 100K, anf may pay income tax if her total income was say over 10k

I beleive you wife would receive a NI number on your death as she would be assessed for UK tax, but probably would not pay any

The SIPP provide needs to have a NL number

You should complete a form with the SIPP provider naming you wife as your beneificary

All income arising in the UK are basically subject to UK tax, personal pensions, SIPP and State Pension

I also beleive pensions are not classed for inheritance tax

As an aside to be totally free of inheritance tax you need to be Non Domicle

[HullyGully]

I have a UK SIPP and my understanding is:-

If the wife takes a cash lump sum from the pension, that would be taxable at I think 45%, so if it was 100,000 the wife would get 55K

If she takes an income from the pension, then she keeps the full amount of 100K, anf may pay income tax if her total income was say over 10k

I beleive you wife would receive a NI number on your death as she would be assessed for UK tax, but probably would not pay any

The SIPP provide needs to have a NL number

You should complete a form with the SIPP provider naming you wife as your beneificary

All income arising in the UK are basically subject to UK tax, personal pensions, SIPP and State Pension

I also beleive pensions are not classed for inheritance tax

As an aside to be totally free of inheritance tax you need to be Non Domicle

[HullyGully]

As another poster point out the wife pension rules change in 2016, therefore going foward pension payments will be based on your own NI contributions

My question is if you retired say in 2015 or before 2016 does your wife qualify for the widow pension (under the pre 2016 rules), bearing in mind she would claim the pension well after 2016

Anyone know the answer?

[prakhonchai nick]

Why take any of this second-hand information--it is likely old, out of context, misinterpreted, or just plain wrong. Get in touch with your pension providers and ask.

For a private or occupational pension, then yes ask them what you want to know

Re bereavement benefits, be aware that most expats/widows who have enquired dorect to the Pension Service are incorrectly advised. The Pension Service invariably advise that a Thai widow who has never been to the UK is entitled to nothing.

Howerver smotherb, you ask who you wish. Good luck!

[prakhonchai nick]

My Thai wife will get 50 percent of my two occupational pensions but I am ingerested to read she may also be entitled to the Bereavement allowance.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

There is no "may" about it. She will be entitled -as the law stands at the moment.

[prakhonchai nick]

As another poster point out the wife pension rules change in 2016, therefore going foward pension payments will be based on your own NI contributions

My question is if you retired say in 2015 or before 2016 does your wife qualify for the widow pension (under the pre 2016 rules), bearing in mind she would claim the pension well after 2016

Anyone know the answer?

First there is no state widows pension.That stopped more than 10 years ago

On your death your wife/widow can claim bereavement benefits which are at present a lump sum payment of £2000, and either a bereavement allowance, a payment based on your NI contributions, for just 1 year, OR if she has a child at school, a Widowed Parents Allowance, which again is based upon your NI contributions and payable to age 18.

Up until now a wife (Thai or otherwise) could claim a state pension at age 65+, based upon her husbands NI contributions. This will cease, and all future state pensions will be paid out on the wife's own contributions to the NI fund. It matters not when you reached state pension age.

[lucifer666]

Does this count even if you're not married (been with my missus for years now , just never got round to the marriage part).Can she still claim my pension after my death ? I would hope she could, or do have have to make it legal ?

[prakhonchai nick]

Does this count even if you're not married (been with my missus for years now , just never got round to the marriage part).Can she still claim my pension after my death ? I would hope she could, or do have have to make it legal ?

Your partner may be entitled to benefits from an occupational pension after your death, but is not entitled to any bereavement benefits unless you are legally married.

You would need a document from the British Embassy and the Thai Foreign office, followed by a visit to your local amphur, + 40bt to make your relationship a legal marriage.

Worth it for the money your wife would receive after your death.

[belg]

social securities funds should cut this big spending spree and deny any thai or whatever nationality, if she never lived in the country & contributed to it

[kevc]

This may sound a little stupid but I'm 65 in five years time, my wife has UK citizenship and has an 80 percent government UK pension based on her contributions from when we lived there. If I die before starting to claim my pension would she still get the bereavement allowance and be able to claim any government pension from my contributions.

Sent from my GT-P5100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thejcb]

I wonder how many of you are against immigration and benefit tourism in England. I would think quite a high percentage. Yet, here you all are discussing how to squeeze more of my taxpayers money out of the British government. You should be ashamed of yourselves for, at the very least, heavy hypocrisy.

[prakhonchai nick]

This may sound a little stupid but I'm 65 in five years time, my wife has UK citizenship and has an 80 percent government UK pension based on her contributions from when we lived there. If I die before starting to claim my pension would she still get the bereavement allowance and be able to claim any government pension from my contributions.

Sent from my GT-P5100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Your wife will be able to claim bereavement benefits upon your death, regardless of whether you were receiving state pension or not.

Her own state pension entitlement at age 65+ will be based solely on her own contributions .

[cassde]

You need to appreciate that I paid NI contributions for 40 years and that my Thai wife gets Bereavement allowance to assist my burial / cremation expenses whether in the UK or Thailand

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[transam]

I wonder how many of you are against immigration and benefit tourism in England. I would think quite a high percentage. Yet, here you all are discussing how to squeeze more of my taxpayers money out of the British government. You should be ashamed of yourselves for, at the very least, heavy hypocrisy.

Stupid post , I/we cannot claim one baht in benefits in LOS yet Thais or any immigrant who go to the UK can, they who have paid zero into the system. I have paid all my life into a system for my old age.

My tax and NI has taken care of your family and old folk whilst I was working. YOU look elsewhere to where the bulk of your tax is now going, you might have a shock. .............

[prakhonchai nick]

I wonder how many of you are against immigration and benefit tourism in England. I would think quite a high percentage. Yet, here you all are discussing how to squeeze more of my taxpayers money out of the British government. You should be ashamed of yourselves for, at the very least, heavy hypocrisy.

Most people I talk to are against UK taxpayers money being spent on pensions to Thais married to foreigners, especially when they have never been to the UK. Even worse is that bereavement benefits are paid to widows on behalf of their children, even when the children were not fathered by the Brit.

However, these payments are not the fault of the Thai people, but of the inept British government . If they are prepared to give handouts to everyone, regardless of where they come from, then it makes sense toreceive your entitlement like everyone else.

Look upon it as a way of getting some of your tax money back.

[cyborgx]

I remember one point where the question was asked "Why should a farang get any public hospital benefits in Thailand when they have never paid taxes in Thailand"

So can you please advise has your wife ever paid any taxes to HM government? If no, why should a Thai get anything from British taxpayers. If a farang was married to a Thai how do you think it would play out asking for social security or any type of benefits in Thailand when the Thai partner passes on. I think we all know the answer to that.

Clearly the Thai gov't are not so stupid as the British governmenr -handing out taxpayer paid welfare benefits to all and sundry.

Even the changes from 2016 whilst effecting expats wives, will also effect all wives from wherever, including british wives. There will be no future pensions payable to wives who have not paid into the system.

Don't blame the expat or his wife/widow for claiming benefit. They are entitled under current rules. Blame the government, and next time vote in a government who will look after the True Brits only!

Thats news to me!. So you are saying that after 2016 Widows of fully NI paid up UK men, will no longer recieve any Widow's pension, just the pension on their own contributions if any, otherwise nothing?!

[olddoc]

I wonder how many of you are against immigration and benefit tourism in England. I would think quite a high percentage. Yet, here you all are discussing how to squeeze more of my taxpayers money out of the British government. You should be ashamed of yourselves for, at the very least, heavy hypocrisy.

Most people I talk to are against UK taxpayers money being spent on pensions to Thais married to foreigners, especially when they have never been to the UK. Even worse is that bereavement benefits are paid to widows on behalf of their children, even when the children were not fathered by the Brit.

However, these payments are not the fault of the Thai people, but of the inept British government . If they are prepared to give handouts to everyone, regardless of where they come from, then it makes sense toreceive your entitlement like everyone else.

Look upon it as a way of getting some of your tax money back.

It should be remembered that these payments are made against (in the main) a fully paid up NI record.

Unlike the "handouts " detailed here

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2559776/This-week-Eurocrat-told-Britain-benefit-tourism-myth-read-Rudi-huge-Romanian-family-say-new-home-Your-benefits-crazy-Its-like-finding-sackful-cash-left-road.html

Look closer to home for abuse of the system !

[transam]

I wonder how many of you are against immigration and benefit tourism in England. I would think quite a high percentage. Yet, here you all are discussing how to squeeze more of my taxpayers money out of the British government. You should be ashamed of yourselves for, at the very least, heavy hypocrisy.

Most people I talk to are against UK taxpayers money being spent on pensions to Thais married to foreigners, especially when they have never been to the UK. Even worse is that bereavement benefits are paid to widows on behalf of their children, even when the children were not fathered by the Brit.

However, these payments are not the fault of the Thai people, but of the inept British government . If they are prepared to give handouts to everyone, regardless of where they come from, then it makes sense toreceive your entitlement like everyone else.

Look upon it as a way of getting some of your tax money back.

It should be remembered that these payments are made against (in the main) a fully paid up NI record.

Unlike the "handouts " detailed here

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2559776/This-week-Eurocrat-told-Britain-benefit-tourism-myth-read-Rudi-huge-Romanian-family-say-new-home-Your-benefits-crazy-Its-like-finding-sackful-cash-left-road.html

Look closer to home for abuse of the system !

, isn't it strange that some are blinkered about stuff and condemn those who have made the UK what it is today, sadly a spongers paradise.......

[prakhonchai nick]

I remember one point where the question was asked "Why should a farang get any public hospital benefits in Thailand when they have never paid taxes in Thailand"

So can you please advise has your wife ever paid any taxes to HM government? If no, why should a Thai get anything from British taxpayers. If a farang was married to a Thai how do you think it would play out asking for social security or any type of benefits in Thailand when the Thai partner passes on. I think we all know the answer to that.

Clearly the Thai gov't are not so stupid as the British governmenr -handing out taxpayer paid welfare benefits to all and sundry.

Even the changes from 2016 whilst effecting expats wives, will also effect all wives from wherever, including british wives. There will be no future pensions payable to wives who have not paid into the system.

Don't blame the expat or his wife/widow for claiming benefit. They are entitled under current rules. Blame the government, and next time vote in a government who will look after the True Brits only!

Thats news to me!. So you are saying that after 2016 Widows of fully NI paid up UK men, will no longer recieve any Widow's pension, just the pension on their own contributions if any, otherwise nothing?!

There has been no widows pension as such payable for the past 10 years.

Upon death of her husband, a widow (regardless of nationality) can claim bereavement benefits, These currently are £2000 + (if aged over 45 an allowance based on husbands NI payments paid for just 1 year OR if she has school aged childred, a Widowed Mothers allowance paid until the child leaves school or reaches 18 whichever comes first)

If the Thai wife reaches state pension age before 6th April 2016, she will receive a state pension based on the husbands NI contributions. After 2016, the state pension would only be payable if she had made her own NI contributions.. That change is in the white paper awaiting final approval.

Form April 2016, bereavement benefits are being revamped.for all wives/husbands. No bereavement allowance for over 45's. and no widowed parents allowance. Just 2 lump sum payments (yet to be confirmed) but likely to be around. £5000 when no eligible children, and £10,000 if there is a school age child.

If there are young children, our wives would be far better off if we died before 6th April 2016...Take care and don't tell them!

[cyborgx]

As another poster point out the wife pension rules change in 2016, therefore going foward pension payments will be based on your own NI contributions

My question is if you retired say in 2015 or before 2016 does your wife qualify for the widow pension (under the pre 2016 rules), bearing in mind she would claim the pension well after 2016

Anyone know the answer?

First there is no state widows pension.That stopped more than 10 years ago

On your death your wife/widow can claim bereavement benefits which are at present a lump sum payment of £2000, and either a bereavement allowance, a payment based on your NI contributions, for just 1 year, OR if she has a child at school, a Widowed Parents Allowance, which again is based upon your NI contributions and payable to age 18.

Up until now a wife (Thai or otherwise) could claim a state pension at age 65+, based upon her husbands NI contributions. This will cease, and all future state pensions will be paid out on the wife's own contributions to the NI fund. It matters not when you reached state pension age.

WOW! Thanks for the great info, things have changed a lot since I last checked!

I'm all for avoiding giving free money to foreigners, but this is MY MONEY that I paid in NI contributions, its totally wrong! They already refuse me National Health Care because I live overseas more than 6 months a year (but give it FREE to foreigners just working in the UK!)

I also understand that the Government pension fund is a mess, but its totally unfair to start taking away funds that were promised to my spouse when I was paying them in!!!!

People make fun of the Thai government and the corruption issues, but Western governments are also f*#ked up in so man ways!

[prakhonchai nick]

I wonder how many of you are against immigration and benefit tourism in England. I would think quite a high percentage. Yet, here you all are discussing how to squeeze more of my taxpayers money out of the British government. You should be ashamed of yourselves for, at the very least, heavy hypocrisy.

Most people I talk to are against UK taxpayers money being spent on pensions to Thais married to foreigners, especially when they have never been to the UK. Even worse is that bereavement benefits are paid to widows on behalf of their children, even when the children were not fathered by the Brit.

However, these payments are not the fault of the Thai people, but of the inept British government . If they are prepared to give handouts to everyone, regardless of where they come from, then it makes sense toreceive your entitlement like everyone else.

Look upon it as a way of getting some of your tax money back.

It should be remembered that these payments are made against (in the main) a fully paid up NI record.

Unlike the "handouts " detailed here

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2559776/This-week-Eurocrat-told-Britain-benefit-tourism-myth-read-Rudi-huge-Romanian-family-say-new-home-Your-benefits-crazy-Its-like-finding-sackful-cash-left-road.html

Look closer to home for abuse of the system !

Relevant point olddoc.

Whilst the £2000 is paid automatically, the other bereavement benefits are all based upon NI contributions. Even our state pension is based upon oyr NI contributions. Originally men rquired 44 for a full pension, then it was reduced to 30, and will soon go back up to 35.

Note that bereavement benefits (other than the £2000) all currently require 44 contributions to enable the maximum payments to be made.

[cyborgx]

I remember one point where the question was asked "Why should a farang get any public hospital benefits in Thailand when they have never paid taxes in Thailand"

So can you please advise has your wife ever paid any taxes to HM government? If no, why should a Thai get anything from British taxpayers. If a farang was married to a Thai how do you think it would play out asking for social security or any type of benefits in Thailand when the Thai partner passes on. I think we all know the answer to that.

Clearly the Thai gov't are not so stupid as the British governmenr -handing out taxpayer paid welfare benefits to all and sundry.

Even the changes from 2016 whilst effecting expats wives, will also effect all wives from wherever, including british wives. There will be no future pensions payable to wives who have not paid into the system.

Don't blame the expat or his wife/widow for claiming benefit. They are entitled under current rules. Blame the government, and next time vote in a government who will look after the True Brits only!

Thats news to me!. So you are saying that after 2016 Widows of fully NI paid up UK men, will no longer recieve any Widow's pension, just the pension on their own contributions if any, otherwise nothing?!

There has been no widows pension as such payable for the past 10 years.

Upon death of her husband, a widow (regardless of nationality) can claim bereavement benefits, These currently are £2000 + (if aged over 45 an allowance based on husbands NI payments paid for just 1 year OR if she has school aged childred, a Widowed Mothers allowance paid until the child leaves school or reaches 18 whichever comes first)

If the Thai wife reaches state pension age before 6th April 2016, she will receive a state pension based on the husbands NI contributions. After 2016, the state pension would only be payable if she had made her own NI contributions.. That change is in the white paper awaiting final approval.

Form April 2016, bereavement benefits are being revamped.for all wives/husbands. No bereavement allowance for over 45's. and no widowed parents allowance. Just 2 lump sum payments (yet to be confirmed) but likely to be around. £5000 when no eligible children, and £10,000 if there is a school age child.

If there are young children, our wives would be far better off if we died before 6th April 2016...Take care and don't tell them!

That's funny, but also sensible advice LOL

I certainly hope the White Paper is rejected, but I don't know the approvement process.

[salapau]

I have a UK private pension, but unlike you I know that I don't have lone to go. Arrangements already made to leave any pension monies and UK savings to my children in the UK and going there shortly to see out the rest of my time. The Thai wife will have the house that I bought in her name. Job done.

[evadgib]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/540525-uk-pensions/page-142

[Anon999]

My Thai wife will get 50 percent of my two occupational pensions but I am ingerested to read she may also be entitled to the Bereavement allowance.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

There is no "may" about it. She will be entitled -as the law stands at the moment.

I have been advising a Thai widow of an English husband who passed away last November. The application for Bereavement Benefit was credited to her bank account this week. However, one office of the DWP informed her, incorrectly, that she was not entitled to the payment, having quoted that she was under 45 which relates to the Bereavement Allowance, that is paid weekly. She also received a letter from another office, of the same department, telling her the payment would be made to her account within the next 5 days!

You can read the current requirements in 'Bereavement Benefits NP45', Google it.

On a related topic my wife gets the occupational pension from her deceased English husband and there was no problem getting a NI number as far as I know.

[Anon999]

I hate it when Thais take my hard earned tax money. They put nothing in. just take and take. This should be stopped. It is not right !

You have no idea. Many of us Expats are still paying UK income tax every year, however, our state pension is frozen therefore the government is taking from us with one hand and keeping the annual pension increment with the other. I suppose you would call that fair, even though NIC had been paid for almost 50 years? The Bereavement Benefit is a very small percentage of the amount of tax that has been paid and will be paid over the coming years! So in my view you are doing very nicely out of my income tax.