Academics divided over appointed PM for next govt

[Lite Beer]

Academics divided over appointed PM for next govt
Khanittha Thepphajorn
The Sunday Nation

Pornsan

BANGKOK: -- Academics are divided over whether the country should opt for an appointed PM to resolve the political deadlock that threatens to send the country into the downward spiral of recession, civil strife, plus social and political disintegration.

Thammasat University political scientist Prajak Kongkirati disapproved of an appointed PM on the ground of constitutionality, saying an appointed PM would not have legitimacy and credibility from the world community.

"The only way out is to follow democratic rules and for the protesters end their protest because not only do they jeopardise the economy but they also put their lives in danger,'' he said.

Independent academic Verapat Pariyawong said the country had reached an impasse because People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) leader Suthep Thaugsuban had refused talks, the military's unclear stance over the situation facing the country and not enough media coverage of debates between the rival camps.

He said to get the two opposing sides to compromise on the issue of the prime minister, the Election Commission should continue with the election until the country has a sufficient number of MPs to convene the House and then let MPs vote for a PM among themselves.

"The new PM does not have to come from the party with the most MP seats but anyone who is acceptable by all sides,'' he said.

He disapproved of the proposal to take recourse to Article 3 and Article 7 of the Constitution to get an appointed PM, saying the charter leaves this channel only for an inevitable situation. It was against the spirit of the charter to intentionally create a political deadlock and power vacuum. "If you don't want elected Cabinet, the only way is to tear up the charter," he said.

Chulalongkorn University lecturer and constitutional expert Pornsan Liangbunlertchai said the present charter had no loophole for an appointed PM. He said the solution was to allow the public to decide who they want to run the country.

"If the (PDRC) argues that the country is under the process of a people's revolution, the question is which ruling system do you want to change to? The people's revolution in Thailand is not successful, unlike in foreign countries, because those countries want to change from dictatorship to democracy,'' he said.

National Institute of Development Administration (NIDA) former rector Sombat Thamrongthanyawong supported the PDRC's push for use of Article 3 and 7 to pave the way for an appointed PM. "The charter writers put these articles in case a political vacuum takes place - otherwise they would not have written them,'' he said.

Independent academic Komsan Phokong also supported the move to seek a royally appointed PM in accordance with Article 7. However, he suggested that the Senate decide who should be the PM as there is no House and House Speaker.

He said having the PDRC decide who will be the next PM would be extremely problematic because of its lack of legitimacy.

-- The Nation 2014-02-16

[noitom]

These Thai are proposing to "appoint" a new PM rather than have an election.

[assayer]

These Thai are proposing to "appoint" a new PM rather than have an election.

Replying to Academics divided over appointed PM for next govt

There seems to be a division in the academics whether or not an appointed PM would be best at this time.

[tezzainoz]

These Thai are proposing to "appoint" a new PM rather than have an election.

Its a shame that many Thailand Visa members have forgotten the greatest start of Democracy in modern Times

It is a sad day when Thais understand True Democracy better than Farlang

Thailand is no longer a democracy but a group of corrupt men looking after them selves and not the country

How many times must I read farlang going on about forming an unelected group to run the country, and turning away from the American Revolution when the founding fathers were also unelected yet they managed to establish one of the greatest governing democracies in modern history

Taskin himself now understands Yinglucks days are over, she will bear the blunt of his greedy wants and will pay the price, in Taskin's democracy family members must be sacrificed for his self game

That has caused even more problems as he has already made it clear that he wants Suwat Liptapanlop to be the next PM as his sister goes down in flames, and Charlerm Yubamrung is not happy as he wants the job. so has gone Power mad with the police to prove to Taskin he deserves the position

With a drunk in charge, well I guess we can do no worse

[virtualtraveller]

These academics display a rather unacademic grasp of the situation. As long as there is an election under the present circumstances you will end up with PM that is far from bi-partisan, it will be a PM on a tight lease from Dubai. Simple as that. Puea Thai could side-step Suthep by replacing Yingluck with one of their own who is extremely neutral, but then that would counter the aims of Thaksin, and would still be 'appointed'. Even Yingluck's candidacy within the Puea Thai was 'appointed' by the big boss.

So, cite all the democratically elected dogma you want, as long as the result is someone still controlled by an unelected fugitive, we have a deadlock. What's wrong, anyway, with a royally appointed PM that is acceptable to both sides, under whom a fair and holistic reform process can proceed? Almost everyone trusts the king. It would only be for a year, a stop gap towards true democracy, as we have seen in many countries that have emerged from conflict.

[drand11]

Stop the propaganda. There is clearly a democratic system and though you may not like the PT Policies, there is no clear proof of Corruption. If the corruption exists, there is a judicual system to deal with it.

The elections must be compleyed and let the PT vote follow the Charter. This is called Democracy. I cant imagine how anyone can so easily ignore the vote of the people.

[GeorgeO]

These Thai are proposing to "appoint" a new PM rather than have an election.

Replying to Academics divided over appointed PM for next govt

There seems to be a division in the academics whether or not an appointed PM would be best at this time.

But one has to question the notion of having further elections and then potentially selecting a PM from a party (or establishment) other than that with the most sitting MPS ... how could that possibly work..?

It is argued that a "people's revolution" won't work in Thailand because it is "unlike in foreign countries [which] want to change from dictatorship to democracy". There are of course many that would argue that that is exactly what is being pursued here...!!

I do not accept the argument that the outside world would not agree to a temporarily appointed PM; on the contrary, I think the outside world would regard that as a major leap towards true democracy, since it would demonstrate that the country is sincere in its desire to regain (or indeed, achieve) democracy.

The temporary PM would oversee a committee made up of people from all walks of life whose role would be to draft laws and electoral regulations aimed at cleaning up all electoral and governmental practices, which would necessarily include barring from any political positions any person with prior convictions.

There would of course need to be provisions in place to ensure that the temporary PM was subject to sufficient checks and balances him/herself, and that the term in office had a predetermined expiry date. That is when free and fair elections could then take place, and all parties would be bound to accept the outcome.

[GeorgeO]

Stop the propaganda. There is clearly a democratic system and though you may not like the PT Policies, there is no clear proof of Corruption. If the corruption exists, there is a judicual system to deal with it.

The elections must be compleyed and let the PT vote follow the Charter. This is called Democracy. I cant imagine how anyone can so easily ignore the vote of the people.

Are you serious? You will have your proof of corruption very soon when the NACC lays charges against large numbers of people within the ranks of the current caretaker government, including her ladyship; that will demonstrate the judicial system in practice, and one wonders how the PTP will react to it...?!

To pursue the elections at this time is pointless.There are likely to be even less candidates available to stand when the court cases start being heard, and indeed, I think you will find that the dear lady and some of her senior colleagues will have already left the building...!!

[thesetat2013]

One would think that having the king appoint a new leader would be best right now. Nobody trusts the PTP party anymore nor do they want Sutheps plan. One year with an appointed leader would solve many problems thailand is having. Plus it would give time to prosecute the leaders who have been corrupted or abusing their power as well as giving the respective time to change their thinking and find ways legally to win the trust of the voters so they would have their chances improved for the next elections.

Personally I think botj parties should be dissolved and create new parties since corruption seems to be the norm for them both. But maybe, they will learn during a year without any of their parties in office that the people should come first. That even an elected leader through a democracy must continue acting democratically by working for the good of all the people

Edited February 16, 2014 by thesetat2013

[moonao]

The only "academics" trying to find loopholes where there aren;t any, belong to the PDRCs war room.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/A-behind-the-scenes-look-at-PDRCs-war-room-30222083.html

Regular academics who advise the PDRC's leaders include: Sombat Thamrongthanyawong, former rector of the National Institute of Development Administration (NIDA); Banjerd Singkaneti, dean of Nida's Graduate School of Law; Charas Suwanmala, former dean of Chulalongkorn's Faculty of Political Science; and Kaewsan Athibodhi, leader of the Thai Spring group, the source added.

There have already been analysis on this , a google search on the text below will take you to the link

These “academics” bear much responsibility for the continual undermining of electoral democracy in Thailand. Their efforts are no doubt rewarded in various ways, but their positions place them in a long line of military and royalist anti-democrats who have acted for a wealth and powerful minority against the majority.

[chainarong]

These Thai are proposing to "appoint" a new PM rather than have an election.

Its a shame that many Thailand Visa members have forgotten the greatest start of Democracy in modern Times

It is a sad day when Thais understand True Democracy better than Farlang

Thailand is no longer a democracy but a group of corrupt men looking after them selves and not the country

How many times must I read farlang going on about forming an unelected group to run the country, and turning away from the American Revolution when the founding fathers were also unelected yet they managed to establish one of the greatest governing democracies in modern history

Taskin himself now understands Yinglucks days are over, she will bear the blunt of his greedy wants and will pay the price, in Taskin's democracy family members must be sacrificed for his self game

That has caused even more problems as he has already made it clear that he wants Suwat Liptapanlop to be the next PM as his sister goes down in flames, and Charlerm Yubamrung is not happy as he wants the job. so has gone Power mad with the police to prove to Taskin he deserves the position

With a drunk in charge, well I guess we can do no worse

Thailand never had democracy, all it had was the people could vote, those people didn't have a choice as to who, it was all organized the faces where not from the ranks and file of the ordinary people , but from the elitist wealthy , the heads of departments are still run by generals, not on ability, Junta days style with a touch of democracy , never will the twain meet old son.

[millwall_fan]

Thailand was doing perfectly well under Yingluck until Suthep started his shenanigans. The economy was flourishing and we had a government that was trying to redistribute wealth to the people through the minimum wage and the rice pledging scheme. They were also enriching themselves through their rake offs from every deal, but that didn't make them any different from any other government.

The problem was that the Shinawatras were outsiders. They are country folk - only elite in a strictly Chiang Mai sense. They didn't understand that they were supposed to divvy up the proceeds of corruption so that those at the apex of the Ruling Elite got their share of the goodies and were treated with the respect they felt they were due.

The Elites are also scared stiff of the ordinary Thais, who they have exploited for the past hundred years or more and want to continue exploiting. Empowering ordinary folk reduces them to driving around Bangkok in their Benzes and BMW's to show everyone how important they are - the wais aren't quite as low as they once were.

So they employed Mr. Suthep to try to dislodge the Shins. He has failed thus far because Prayuth refused to to mount a military coup because he and a very few others realise that with no Thaksin, the hard left will take over Peua Thai - this minority of the Ruling Elite, understand that Thaksin is preferable to Jutaporn or Tilda whose socialism/populism shows Thaksin's up as mere rhetoric. Under military rule the hard left could regroup and plan then come the eventual but inevitable election, they would sweep to power.

No the elites will try to use the judiciary to remove the Shins and ban their political party for a 3rd time. The trouble is that the judiciary has now lost what little credibility it had with Thais and the outside world and a 3rd ban would confirm that they are irretrievably biased.

Time to sue for peace with the Shinawatras? They would concede a lot at this stage and then everyone could go back to the happy chaotic corrupt, but surprisingly successful Thailand inc. that existed prior to last October.

[drand11]

These academics display a rather unacademic grasp of the situation. As long as there is an election under the present circumstances you will end up with PM that is far from bi-partisan, it will be a PM on a tight lease from Dubai. Simple as that. Puea Thai could side-step Suthep by replacing Yingluck with one of their own who is extremely neutral, but then that would counter the aims of Thaksin, and would still be 'appointed'. Even Yingluck's candidacy within the Puea Thai was 'appointed' by the big boss.

So, cite all the democratically elected dogma you want, as long as the result is someone still controlled by an unelected fugitive, we have a deadlock. What's wrong, anyway, with a royally appointed PM that is acceptable to both sides, under whom a fair and holistic reform process can proceed? Almost everyone trusts the king. It would only be for a year, a stop gap towards dems can get it their way. Don't we think this is the "Democratic way". The Int'l community certainly doesn't see it this way. I am the first to agree, Thailand can care less about the "Int'l view" since they have a Coup every 4-5 years in this country.

Oh yes, lets put the Constitution on hold. The only reason the PM is up against a deadline today is due to illegal acts by the Dems. This is correct, obstructing the election process/ voting of the people is an illegal act. You do not steer away from Democracy just due to a bunch of thugs that choose to use Propaganda to attempt to overthrow a Democratically elected Gov't.

I challenge the Dems to tell me of one Corruption scheme that has been proven in the court of law against the present Yingluk Government. Forget about the propaganda, true fact. Facts are, the Constitutional Court and Military certainly are not "Pro PT" So you can't say that the corruption is protected, so there is no reason to think that if there are FACTS leading to criminal charges, these charges would have been made many years before.

You can say "Rice Scandal". But lets be real. I personally think the Rice Subsidy is a bad policy. But Dems, a bad Policy / Pro Policy to the Gov't in charge is not Corruption. It is simply a poorly devised scheme to help the poor. Can I ask the Dems, when was the last time the Dems even tried to develop Pro - Poor Policy in this nation? If you don't like the Rice Policy, then vote and choose a new Gov't. Don't use illegal acts and false propaganda to overthrow a democratically elected government.

By the way, didn't the Dems & Suthep have involvement in the last "Reform" when the military ran the Gov't?? Oh, is this Propaganda or FACT?

[tezzainoz]

Stop the propaganda. There is clearly a democratic system and though you may not like the PT Policies, there is no clear proof of Corruption. If the corruption exists, there is a judicual system to deal with it.

The elections must be compleyed and let the PT vote follow the Charter. This is called Democracy. I cant imagine how anyone can so easily ignore the vote of the people.

Last night we where playing some old Michael Jackson songs and I looked around the wife was gone

so I just sat back and had a rest

with in an hour the house was full of girlfriend and a few guys

why

She fell in love with an old Michael Jackson song

for the next 2 hours it was the same song over and over again till they knew the words

Yingluck your invited to come any listen

These are Thai people singing

You are there hero ...... in song

I joke and say this will soon be the No. 1 song in our Village if noy in Thaiand

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp6fKjYn7m0

[chainarong]

I think a revamp of the whole system should include someone who is senior on the inside of a Government Department , such as finance, plus Thai academic's who have the knowledge / respect to carry out reforms ,address the issues , plus control the ego, you must have previous Ministers (unfortunately) both sides, as the reforms that are to be under taken are massive, (that is how far down the road Thailand is from Democracy) , also there should be advisers from other countries to supply proper in-putt and knowledge of Democracy, these can be either academic's or experts in the field of Democracy, one thing you need to avoid is the Thai version of democracy , this will only place Thailand back where it is now The junta style Democracy hasn't worked, so throw it away. Remove all generals ,as heads of departments and appoint on ability only. Frankly knowing the players, it's business as usual

[tezzainoz]

Stop the propaganda. There is clearly a democratic system and though you may not like the PT Policies, there is no clear proof of Corruption. If the corruption exists, there is a judicual system to deal with it.

The elections must be compleyed and let the PT vote follow the Charter. This is called Democracy. I cant imagine how anyone can so easily ignore the vote of the people.

Are you so blind you can not see what is happening infront of you

Yes and Santa Claus and the tooth fairy are real

I have read some real idiot stories,but your reply today must take the top of the list

There is no corruption in Thailand Government

Please click on the following for our reaction to your post

[h90]

These Thai are proposing to "appoint" a new PM rather than have an election.

Its a shame that many Thailand Visa members have forgotten the greatest start of Democracy in modern Times

It is a sad day when Thais understand True Democracy better than Farlang

Thailand is no longer a democracy but a group of corrupt men looking after them selves and not the country

How many times must I read farlang going on about forming an unelected group to run the country, and turning away from the American Revolution when the founding fathers were also unelected yet they managed to establish one of the greatest governing democracies in modern history

Taskin himself now understands Yinglucks days are over, she will bear the blunt of his greedy wants and will pay the price, in Taskin's democracy family members must be sacrificed for his self game

That has caused even more problems as he has already made it clear that he wants Suwat Liptapanlop to be the next PM as his sister goes down in flames, and Charlerm Yubamrung is not happy as he wants the job. so has gone Power mad with the police to prove to Taskin he deserves the position

With a drunk in charge, well I guess we can do no worse

As well what does it help if some very bad leader is democratic elected....Hitler was democratic elected. Democracy is a system to get the best, the best accepted leader. If that doesn't work, and there is no hope that it will work in future because the laws are already changed to guarantee that the same family will win again (vote buying, fraud, no separation of power, no free media), than the complete talk of democracy is nonsense.

The Shinwatras clearly try to develop a Democracy "North Korean style" (yes North Korea is a Democracy, so was East Germany, just you couldn't change something with your vote).

[Mackie]

Thailand was doing perfectly well under Yingluck until Suthep started his shenanigans. The economy was flourishing and we had a government that was trying to redistribute wealth to the people through the minimum wage and the rice pledging scheme. They were also enriching themselves through their rake offs from every deal, but that didn't make them any different from any other government.

The problem was that the Shinawatras were outsiders. They are country folk - only elite in a strictly Chiang Mai sense. They didn't understand that they were supposed to divvy up the proceeds of corruption so that those at the apex of the Ruling Elite got their share of the goodies and were treated with the respect they felt they were due.

The Elites are also scared stiff of the ordinary Thais, who they have exploited for the past hundred years or more and want to continue exploiting. Empowering ordinary folk reduces them to driving around Bangkok in their Benzes and BMW's to show everyone how important they are - the wais aren't quite as low as they once were.

So they employed Mr. Suthep to try to dislodge the Shins. He has failed thus far because Prayuth refused to to mount a military coup because he and a very few others realise that with no Thaksin, the hard left will take over Peua Thai - this minority of the Ruling Elite, understand that Thaksin is preferable to Jutaporn or Tilda whose socialism/populism shows Thaksin's up as mere rhetoric. Under military rule the hard left could regroup and plan then come the eventual but inevitable election, they would sweep to power.

No the elites will try to use the judiciary to remove the Shins and ban their political party for a 3rd time. The trouble is that the judiciary has now lost what little credibility it had with Thais and the outside world and a 3rd ban would confirm that they are irretrievably biased.

Time to sue for peace with the Shinawatras? They would concede a lot at this stage and then everyone could go back to the happy chaotic corrupt, but surprisingly successful Thailand inc. that existed prior to last October.

You must be living in the parallel universe mate. Thailand was not doing well at all. Rice scheme scam, tablet per school child scheme scam, water management scheme scam etc...etc...I bet there is much more to it. No to mention ever rising inflation. To cut long story short, basically Yingluck's government managed to run up over 20 billion USD debt within 2 years in the office and nothing to show for that money.

If you call property development which is currently going on in Thailand flourishing economy then you definitely have not got the clue what is going on in Thailand. Thailand property market is purposefully overheated and prices are artificially forced up the same way it was done in the USA and the UK. The bubble will burst and people will be left to their own devices once again. It will be really painful experience for many Thais who fell for it.

Incidentally, there is more to Thailand then Yingluck, Chalerm, Suthep or anyone else...

Turmoil in Thailand China Won’t Play Rice with Thailand’s Shinawatra

http://www.the-american-interest.com/

In a huge blow to the embattled government of Thailand’s prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra, China abandoned a plan to buy a massive amount of rice from Thai farmers today.

Under a costly plan set up by Yingluck shortly after she entered office in 2011, the Thai government pledged to buy rice from farmers at an above-market price. The plan is backfiring. Rice is piling up in warehouses, unsold, and the government is running out of money to pay what it owes to the farmers, who are growing increasingly irritated. The deal with China, had it gone through, could have been a lifesaver for Yingluck, and the fact that China pulled out is being seen as a message of support for the opposition “yellow shirts” who are trying to bring her down.

China had planned to buy 1.2 million tons of Thai rice, about 14 percent of the country’s annual exports, the FT reports. But Thailand’s national anti-corruption agency is involved in an ongoing investigation into Yingluck’s rice-buying scheme, and Beijing got cold feet. A Thai bank also announced that it would no longer offer new funding to help the government pay the farmers. The farmers are starting to get angry. According to the Bangkok Post, which calls the whole thing a “rotten harvest,” it has put Yingluck’s government more than $21 billion in debt.

The pressure is building on Yingluck’s embattled government. Widespread protests in Bangkok led by the opposition party are still ongoing, despite hasty elections held over the weekend. Yingluck can expect to win those elections based on strong support for her and her brother Thaksin in north and northeast Thailand. Rural farmers in this part of Thailand are the Shinawatras’ most reliable supporters. Part of that support results from the generous rice-buying scheme. But if Yingluck’s government can’t pay the farmers as it promised, that support may collapse.

Even if it doesn’t, Yingluck’s problems won’t end with an election victory. The rice-buying scheme has very nearly bankrupted the government, so she has a serious financial problem on her hands. The opposition is challenging the scheme—and the election—in court. Thailand’s judiciary has helped the opposition bring down Shinawatra governments in the past. Adding to the turmoil is the failing health of the beloved King and the uncertainty swirling around his successor.

There is a risk that Thailand’s political troubles could turn into an international geopolitical competition, with China and the United States supporting different sides. Indeed, just as China was abandoning Yingluck and her costly rice scheme, the United States stepped up its support of her government. ”We certainly do not want to see a coup,” said a State Department spokeswoman. ”We remain concerned that political tensions in Thailand are posing challenges to the democratic institutions and processes of Thailand.”

Edited February 16, 2014 by Mackie

[slapout]

All those directly involved in the quest for power, gain, cover up, forgiveness of past sins, retention of what they have, etc, have thrown out a lot of proposals, without a single name being proposed for PM, head of reform, etc. The apparent agrement between everyone, is a neutral, unbasised, fence setter, acdemic, educated, likeable, be brought in. Not a single group to date has pressed for this individual/committee to be "Honest".

I think this omission does more to show the need for 'chucking the whole lot'. Let them jockey for a position of power in the penal system as general prison population. Granted there will be some bystanders hurt, but the odds of them being innocent are much less than giving the government back to these and like thinking people, family, and groups.

[Bakseeda]

Thailand was doing perfectly well under Yingluck until Suthep started his shenanigans. The economy was flourishing and we had a government that was trying to redistribute wealth to the people through the minimum wage and the rice pledging scheme. They were also enriching themselves through their rake offs from every deal, but that didn't make them any different from any other government.

The problem was that the Shinawatras were outsiders. They are country folk - only elite in a strictly Chiang Mai sense. They didn't understand that they were supposed to divvy up the proceeds of corruption so that those at the apex of the Ruling Elite got their share of the goodies and were treated with the respect they felt they were due.

The Elites are also scared stiff of the ordinary Thais, who they have exploited for the past hundred years or more and want to continue exploiting. Empowering ordinary folk reduces them to driving around Bangkok in their Benzes and BMW's to show everyone how important they are - the wais aren't quite as low as they once were.

So they employed Mr. Suthep to try to dislodge the Shins. He has failed thus far because Prayuth refused to to mount a military coup because he and a very few others realise that with no Thaksin, the hard left will take over Peua Thai - this minority of the Ruling Elite, understand that Thaksin is preferable to Jutaporn or Tilda whose socialism/populism shows Thaksin's up as mere rhetoric. Under military rule the hard left could regroup and plan then come the eventual but inevitable election, they would sweep to power.

No the elites will try to use the judiciary to remove the Shins and ban their political party for a 3rd time. The trouble is that the judiciary has now lost what little credibility it had with Thais and the outside world and a 3rd ban would confirm that they are irretrievably biased.

Time to sue for peace with the Shinawatras? They would concede a lot at this stage and then everyone could go back to the happy chaotic corrupt, but surprisingly successful Thailand inc. that existed prior to last October.

Either written by a blind fool, or a wind-up merchant... 1, Thailand was NOT doing perfectly well... 2, The Shinewatra was NOT an outsider.. (check out his wife) and 3, The Elites as you call them certainly are Not scared of ordinary Thais.. Don't believe your wife... Next you will be telling us that Millwall will win a Championship...

[jayboy]

These Thai are proposing to "appoint" a new PM rather than have an election.

Its a shame that many Thailand Visa members have forgotten the greatest start of Democracy in modern Times

It is a sad day when Thais understand True Democracy better than Farlang

Thailand is no longer a democracy but a group of corrupt men looking after them selves and not the country

How many times must I read farlang going on about forming an unelected group to run the country, and turning away from the American Revolution when the founding fathers were also unelected yet they managed to establish one of the greatest governing democracies in modern history

Taskin himself now understands Yinglucks days are over, she will bear the blunt of his greedy wants and will pay the price, in Taskin's democracy family members must be sacrificed for his self game

That has caused even more problems as he has already made it clear that he wants Suwat Liptapanlop to be the next PM as his sister goes down in flames, and Charlerm Yubamrung is not happy as he wants the job. so has gone Power mad with the police to prove to Taskin he deserves the position

With a drunk in charge, well I guess we can do no worse

As well what does it help if some very bad leader is democratic elected....Hitler was democratic elected. Democracy is a system to get the best, the best accepted leader. If that doesn't work, and there is no hope that it will work in future because the laws are already changed to guarantee that the same family will win again (vote buying, fraud, no separation of power, no free media), than the complete talk of democracy is nonsense.

The Shinwatras clearly try to develop a Democracy "North Korean style" (yes North Korea is a Democracy, so was East Germany, just you couldn't change something with your vote).

There is a legitimate argument that Thailand needs independent checks and balances that work well.

But democracy is not a system to get the best.It's a system that gives power to the people, albeit hedged by checks and balances (see above).A system to get the best is an aristocracy though the meaning has been debased in modern times to mean a hereditary class.The exam based system of Imperial China is perhaps the best example of theoretical government by the best - although in practise it wasn't

Elections are only part of democracy - but an essential beginning because free and fair elections must take place for the possibility of full democracy to exist at all.

The myth that Hitler was elected is repeated again notwithstanding it has been disproved time and time again.The purveyers of this myth never apparently read histories of the time, relying on internet cliches.The background is a little complicated but the Nazis never had a majority in the Reichstag, and Hitler's ascension to power was a backstairs deal (like that of Abhisit - just kidding).I could go into more detail but for those who believe the myth truth is not that interesting, not least because it exposes their ignorance and lies.

All credible sources verify Thai elections while not free of abuse have been free and fair.Abhisit has made this point very recently in explaining why he left office and gave the new government a chance.

He laughably calls elections in North Korea and Eastern Germany democratic.That's a measure of his integrity.

[djjamie]

Stop the propaganda. There is clearly a democratic system and though you may not like the PT Policies, there is no clear proof of Corruption. If the corruption exists, there is a judicual system to deal with it.

The elections must be compleyed and let the PT vote follow the Charter. This is called Democracy. I cant imagine how anyone can so easily ignore the vote of the people.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/10618134/Burmese-smugglers-get-rich-on-Yingluck-Shinawatras-13-billion-Thai-rice-subsidies.html

That is one clear proof of corruption to start with.

And I'm only a DEM (and according the "1 principle of democracy" supporters a fascist, brainless dictator supporter) internet warrior that found that in 2 minutes. Imagine what the NACC will find over a whole investigation.

Imagine all the people (Beatles song) that the NACC will find corrupt in that scheme. That scheme that the IMF, the World Bank and the DEMS said is full of corruption and it needed to be urgently reviewed. Not to attack the PTP, but offering words of advice. That scheme that Supa dared say was riddles with corruption and suggested the PTP urgently review it.

Elections are not called democracy. Elections is one principle of democracy. Elections in a democracy cannot be facades that dictators or a single party hide behind, but authentic competitions for the support of the people.

Democracy rests upon the principles of majority rule, coupled with individual and minority rights. All democracies, while respecting the will of the majority, zealously protect the fundamental rights of individuals and minority groups.

Democracies understand that one of their prime functions is to protect such basic human rights as freedom of speech; the right to equal protection under law; and the opportunity to organize and participate fully in the political and economic life of society.

So we have a corrupt government run by an unelected boss (yes yes yingluck is the PM) that practices one principle of democracy while staying silent on the rest. I do not know what is more dangerous. The government that do this or the people that vote that government and ignore the other principles of democracy as well. If the current state of violence is any indication I would suggest the supporters.

[Scamper]

This article shows a divide among academics regarding Article 3 and Article 7. Some believe they should take effect, some do not. And yet - there they are. They would not be there if the prospect of a political vacuum was not considered enough of a credible possibility, no matter how remote. But regardless as to what position one prefers to take on them, there they are. And their presence in the constitution means they cannot be ignored. When the constitution was ratified, it was ratified as a whole. And that's the sum total of it. One can of course affect constitutional changes. But that would take a parliament to start the process. Article 3 and Article 7 were written to take in account the possibility of a political vacuum. It has happened. We are in it. The lack of a " fixed date " for the election means that Article 108 is inevitably involved. But the lack of a quorum and the lack of a prime ministerial nomination as a result of that lack of quorum means that Article 7 is involved, and in fact begins to take effect on April 1. Never in Thai political history has a political vacuum created a more explicit set of circumstances for Article 7 that this. There will be a huge argument over this, of course. And as such, it is inevitable that it will wind up at the Constitutional Court for a definitive ruling. As Article 3, Article 7, and Article 108 are in the constitution, Pheu Thai have their work cut out for them. It will be very hard to finesse their meaning into impotence.

[animatic]

These academics display a rather unacademic grasp of the situation. As long as there is an election under the present circumstances you will end up with PM that is far from bi-partisan, it will be a PM on a tight lease from Dubai. Simple as that. Puea Thai could side-step Suthep by replacing Yingluck with one of their own who is extremely neutral, but then that would counter the aims of Thaksin, and would still be 'appointed'. Even Yingluck's candidacy within the Puea Thai was 'appointed' by the big boss.

So, cite all the democratically elected dogma you want, as long as the result is someone still controlled by an unelected fugitive, we have a deadlock. What's wrong, anyway, with a royally appointed PM that is acceptable to both sides, under whom a fair and holistic reform process can proceed? Almost everyone trusts the king. It would only be for a year, a stop gap towards true democracy, as we have seen in many countries that have emerged from conflict.

In a NUTSHELL.

"So, cite all the democratically elected dogma you want,

as long as the result is someone still controlled by an unelected fugitive, ^{we have a deadlock.}"

Sad to say, but this sums up the protests all to well.

Edited February 16, 2014 by animatic

[MMarlow]

These Thai are proposing to "appoint" a new PM rather than have an election.

Wrong again with your interpretation of a report. Only two out of the five quoted were in favour of an appointed PM, and none of them are proposing that course of action.

[focus27]

These Thai are proposing to "appoint" a new PM rather than have an election.

Its a shame that many Thailand Visa members have forgotten the greatest start of Democracy in modern Times

It is a sad day when Thais understand True Democracy better than Farlang

Thailand is no longer a democracy but a group of corrupt men looking after them selves and not the country

How many times must I read farlang going on about forming an unelected group to run the country, and turning away from the American Revolution when the founding fathers were also unelected yet they managed to establish one of the greatest governing democracies in modern history

Taskin himself now understands Yinglucks days are over, she will bear the blunt of his greedy wants and will pay the price, in Taskin's democracy family members must be sacrificed for his self game

That has caused even more problems as he has already made it clear that he wants Suwat Liptapanlop to be the next PM as his sister goes down in flames, and Charlerm Yubamrung is not happy as he wants the job. so has gone Power mad with the police to prove to Taskin he deserves the position

With a drunk in charge, well I guess we can do no worse

As well what does it help if some very bad leader is democratic elected....Hitler was democratic elected. Democracy is a system to get the best, the best accepted leader. If that doesn't work, and there is no hope that it will work in future because the laws are already changed to guarantee that the same family will win again (vote buying, fraud, no separation of power, no free media), than the complete talk of democracy is nonsense.

The Shinwatras clearly try to develop a Democracy "North Korean style" (yes North Korea is a Democracy, so was East Germany, just you couldn't change something with your vote).

There is a legitimate argument that Thailand needs independent checks and balances that work well.

But democracy is not a system to get the best.It's a system that gives power to the people, albeit hedged by checks and balances (see above).A system to get the best is an aristocracy though the meaning has been debased in modern times to mean a hereditary class.The exam based system of Imperial China is perhaps the best example of theoretical government by the best - although in practise it wasn't

Elections are only part of democracy - but an essential beginning because free and fair elections must take place for the possibility of full democracy to exist at all.

The myth that Hitler was elected is repeated again notwithstanding it has been disproved time and time again.The purveyers of this myth never apparently read histories of the time, relying on internet cliches.The background is a little complicated but the Nazis never had a majority in the Reichstag, and Hitler's ascension to power was a backstairs deal (like that of Abhisit - just kidding).I could go into more detail but for those who believe the myth truth is not that interesting, not least because it exposes their ignorance and lies.

All credible sources verify Thai elections while not free of abuse have been free and fair.Abhisit has made this point very recently in explaining why he left office and gave the new government a chance.

He laughably calls elections in North Korea and Eastern Germany democratic.That's a measure of his integrity.

I'm not sure if this is the place to go off on a history of Nazism and fascism, but to say that Hitler was never elected is also not entirely true. He was not elected as either Chancellor or President, that's true, but he was elected to parliament and was the leader of the largest minority party. The whole story can be checked online without the need for mythology. It is, however, instructive in how a large minority party can gain power through intimidation, violence and pressure on a weak parliament. Hitler did succeed in being made Chancellor with only a minority government. That's the point at which Germany becomes a one-party state.

Democracy is a weak form of government. As you yourself say, it does not result in the 'best' or the 'wisest' of governments, but it does attempt to express the will of most citizens. This is inherently unstable, and the relative stability of some democracies depends on the history and culture of the people and, ironically, of strong undemocratic forces.

[jpeg]

These Thai are proposing to "appoint" a new PM rather than have an election.

Replying to Academics divided over appointed PM for next govt

There seems to be a division in the academics whether or not an appointed PM would be best at this time.

But one has to question the notion of having further elections and then potentially selecting a PM from a party (or establishment) other than that with the most sitting MPS ... how could that possibly work..?

It is argued that a "people's revolution" won't work in Thailand because it is "unlike in foreign countries [which] want to change from dictatorship to democracy". There are of course many that would argue that that is exactly what is being pursued here...!!

I do not accept the argument that the outside world would not agree to a temporarily appointed PM; on the contrary, I think the outside world would regard that as a major leap towards true democracy, since it would demonstrate that the country is sincere in its desire to regain (or indeed, achieve) democracy.

The temporary PM would oversee a committee made up of people from all walks of life whose role would be to draft laws and electoral regulations aimed at cleaning up all electoral and governmental practices, which would necessarily include barring from any political positions any person with prior convictions.

There would of course need to be provisions in place to ensure that the temporary PM was subject to sufficient checks and balances him/herself, and that the term in office had a predetermined expiry date. That is when free and fair elections could then take place, and all parties would be bound to accept the outcome.

Nice idea. I was about to click 'like'. Then I came to my senses and remembered where I was.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Its a shame that many Thailand Visa members have forgotten the greatest start of Democracy in modern Times

It is a sad day when Thais understand True Democracy better than Farlang

Thailand is no longer a democracy but a group of corrupt men looking after them selves and not the country

How many times must I read farlang going on about forming an unelected group to run the country, and turning away from the American Revolution when the founding fathers were also unelected yet they managed to establish one of the greatest governing democracies in modern history

Taskin himself now understands Yinglucks days are over, she will bear the blunt of his greedy wants and will pay the price, in Taskin's democracy family members must be sacrificed for his self game

That has caused even more problems as he has already made it clear that he wants Suwat Liptapanlop to be the next PM as his sister goes down in flames, and Charlerm Yubamrung is not happy as he wants the job. so has gone Power mad with the police to prove to Taskin he deserves the position

With a drunk in charge, well I guess we can do no worse

It is a sad day when Thais understand True Democracy better than Farlang

When did Thai people appoint you their spokesperson? They didn't .

Taskin himself now understands Yinglucks days are over

So you speak for Taksin now too?

that he wants Suwat Liptapanlop to be the next PM

Thaksin doesn't get to choose, and you don't get to choose by pretending to speak for him either.

Thammasat University is Seri Wongmontha (above) old University, yet even they say "Thammasat University political scientist Prajak Kongkirati disapproved of an appointed PM..."The only way out is to follow democratic rules"

See how it works, from the Constitution:

Section 3. The sovereign power belongs to the Thai people. The King as Head of State shall exercise such power through the National Assembly, the Council of Ministers and the Courts in accordance with the provisions of this Constitution.

You cannot pretend to speak for the Thai people and simply decide to appoint a PM by any other means, other than the election system prescribed by the Constitution. If you don't have guns to point at everyone's heads, to force an Anand or similar figure into power.

You and whose army, get to appoint a PM? Because you need an army to force a coup like you and Nation Multimedia proposing.

Edited February 16, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[bigbamboo]

With the current state of play Yingluck's resignation ( as opposed to her removal) would probably be the best thing for Thailand. With the very real possibility she could end up scrapping in court like her brother before her it would be best for the country if someone else took over the reins, even if it was just short term. That would also mean Thaksin taking that break from politics he's always talking about.

Thailand needs to show it's people and the rest of the world that it recognizes the mess it is in and is prepared to be proactive in doing something about it. It needs a period of calm to set the ship on course again.

[pisico]

These Thai are proposing to "appoint" a new PM rather than have an election.

Its a shame that many Thailand Visa members have forgotten the greatest start of Democracy in modern Times

It is a sad day when Thais understand True Democracy better than Farlang

Thailand is no longer a democracy but a group of corrupt men looking after them selves and not the country

How many times must I read farlang going on about forming an unelected group to run the country, and turning away from the American Revolution when the founding fathers were also unelected yet they managed to establish one of the greatest governing democracies in modern history

Taskin himself now understands Yinglucks days are over, she will bear the blunt of his greedy wants and will pay the price, in Taskin's democracy family members must be sacrificed for his self game

That has caused even more problems as he has already made it clear that he wants Suwat Liptapanlop to be the next PM as his sister goes down in flames, and Charlerm Yubamrung is not happy as he wants the job. so has gone Power mad with the police to prove to Taskin he deserves the position

With a drunk in charge, well I guess we can do no worse

FALSE ANALOGY:

To compare the Founding Fathers of a country (USA) that was in gestation after freeing themselves from British rule and Suthep and PDRC aspirations of taking over power is an insult to any thinking human being's intelligence.

That assertion may work well for rabid anti-Thaksinistas that will die with their blinders on.

Thailand is an old country of hundreds of years. Thailand has always had a turbulent history. Go back to the times of Suriothai and learn from history.

Fact: vote buying has been going on since elections became a reality in Thai politics. It obeys (vote buying) to their feudalistic nature of patronage and deference to elders and authority.

Fact: Whether we like this current government or not, it was elected by the people..

Fact: What Suthep aspires to do is simply a power grab. So far he has failed to foment the same circumstances that prompted the Coup d'etat of 2006 and now is trying to sway public opinion (mainly in Bangkok) that the best route to good governance is by appointing a PM.

What gives that power to an old politico such as Suthep? In 1995 Suthep’s was the architect of Sor Por Kor 4-01 land scheme scandal that led to the downfall of the Democrat-led Chuan Leekpai government. Furthermore, as a Miniser of Agriculture he resigned under threat of being indicted for the Sor Por Kor 4-01 land scheme.

Research these facts and think twice before you decide to glorify traditionally corrupt politicos.

Academics supporting appointment of PM and/or MPs? No surprise there. They are part of the elite that firmly believes that Bangkok IS Thailand.