Racism or Am I Just too Sensitive.

[oiboy]

I personally don't like you "indians" "pakis". I have seen your race contaminate many countries and some have tried to get rid of you, Fiji and Uganda. The Thais treat you as they see fit.

Wow. Contaminate? You mean like colonialists? I guess in this day and age of euro-centric mentality it's acceptable for Europeans to colonize the world illegally I might add, yet improper for other nationals it's contamination. Tell that to the British French and Portuguese who invaded a great portion of the world. Do the planet a favour and go back into the abortion bucket you crawled out of.

[philw]

By 'Indian nationality' I assume you mean Indian descent. How did you manage to learn Thai without noticing that the Thais despise Indians? And it's not just Indians. Khaek also includes Arabs and Persians, so you're not alone. Have a guess what they call African Americans. It's just what Asia is like. If you want to see real racism try going to India and tell them you're a Dalit.

So yes, you're being way too sensitive. You're basically an educated rich westerner, so who cares what a bunch of low paid Thai restaurant workers think. Shuffle through a roll of thousand baht notes in front of them and then leave a ten baht tip.

Ugly but right.

[oiboy]

I am alco Canadian and in Canada East Indians are not a welcome crowd either,when it comes to business.They have established a REPUTATION FOR THEMSELVES AS BEING RUDE AND arrogant at times,almost always ABSURDLY niggardly,and criminal.My wife and I often vended our wares and the markets in and around Vancouver and it came to the point that whenever an east Indian approached our stand we would turn our backs to discourage them from coming over and handling all the merchandise and leaving it the display area in a mess after offering us an offer well below the cost of the goods.What is with these people-do their parents beat them if they dont obtain everything below cost.They seem to enjoy some superior social status amongst each other if they can beat down the price on something.So my friend in my opinion your reputuation seems to have spread beyond Canada.On another note-anyone who has ever frequently travelled abroad on business I am certain would agree with me that Indians are positively the worst loud and obnoxious people that one could ever have the misfortune of being allocated a room next to (always a huge group),what to speak of living next door or even in the area...In general they have zero regard for the privacy and quietude of anyone else and they richly deserve the results of the reputation that they have built for themselves.Cheers

I'm curious what wares you were selling. I have worked several farmers markets in Vancouver, selling homemade jam it is now being sold by Meat & Bread as well as Oyama Sausage co if you want to buy some. I personally wouldn't deal with people like you either, so no loss. If you are one to generalize a whole race of many many many people by the ones you had interactions with then sham on you. I form my opinion on individuals. It's like saying all Caucasians in seA are pretty much sex tourists or pedophiles. Or that all Chinese are loud and spit a lot or all Thais are racist I think you need to get over yourself. Maybe live a little and see life from a different perspective. I'm not loud. I take a shower often and do use deodorant. I do bargain when in Asia but only when I find the price inflated. I do not share one beer between ten of my friends. I'm pretty non judgemental. I'm not homophobic or xenophobic. It has a lot to go with my upbringing where I was exposed to many different cultures from an early age. I have friends of all ethnic backgrounds back in vancity. I have been exposed to bad people of nearly every race/nationality.

[cashpower]

Well most people are a bit racist, bigoted, and/or xenophobic. Personally, I'm not. But Indians are cheap charlies and do smell pretty bad.

[JakeSully]

Been there, had to deal with it.

Just last month when I was in bangkok, just because I looked Indian I had to pay 1600 baht for a lodging at a standard room when it was 1100 for normal white farangs. Even my thai companion couldn't talk her way out of it.This was at Jim's Lodge near the American Embassy where I had to go the next morning but I just chalked it up to experience.. that next time plan an overnight sight seeing session before I go into the embassy rather than get there dead tired and need a room.

BTW as much as I want to say you shouldn't have to put up with it, as much as I'm innocent (An american born kid with Indian/ Thai parents who happens to look a little indian more than thai), you should see what bunches of Indians do and how they give others a bad reputation. 10 of them want to gang bang the same girl for 300 baht and it gives a bad reputation to others.

I had to put up with this, as the good looking ones wouldn't even consider me without me paying 5000 baht short time at first. I took it in stride and went out with the garbage looking ones from beach road for 300 baht. And guess what, the good looking ones have a need to brag to the not so good looking ones about how cool they are and when they talk and they're like OMG you have to go out with this guy, treats me so well and he's half thai.. the 5000 baht girls start coming to you for free like I gotta experience this for myself.. Takes months to build this kinda reputation but eventually I'm looked upon as half thai with an American passport rather than Indian unwanted. Very different however when I go to a new place and I have to start all over again.

So.. take it in stride and avoid the Indian crowd of people like the plague. If you stick around a bit, people will come to recognize you're not one of the kaek farangs. Hell I get away with paying thai prices now instead of the double pricing near where I live but it's different if I venture out of my local community.

Best of luck dude.

Oh and you're in the wrong place if you went to Walking Street.. Avoid that like the plague. Some of the disco's are okay but if you want to see thai's fighting russians and foreigners because they annoy them, this is the place. Saw 2 brits getting heeled in the head by ladyboys opposite Linda's Bar and 3 russians getting owned by taxi drivers in a span of 20 minutes near Soi Marine 2 days ago. You should try the actual thai places which are much better with prices and attitudes than those that're just trying to steal your money or if you dont' have it, they say <deleted> off and come at you like a pack of wolves.

3rd road has a ton of good places and even if you're not gay, Sunee's Plaza clubs/ restaurnts treats you much much better than Walking Street.. (gay people tend to be the most accepting of everyone even though most people hate them).

[ggt]

How many of your over 2000 posts...are actually NO POST...?

[Emster23]

Thanks for your post, EVC. It was thoughtful, forthright and did not seem a rant to this farang. It does seem a large percentage of Thais are brainwashed and prejudiced, but not all. Good for you on calling them out when it is displayed. Regarding the shout out about your bill at restaurant, I might have taken it to the manager. And those who concluded you were lazy didn't read the post very well. You earned the right to check out late by giving so much business before, and like you said, there were other rooms available.

I have lived here for years, and although I am a Caucasian American, I still get irked with line jumping and such. When that happens I merely say name of banned political party "Thai rak Thai". Some generalizations are somewhat inevitable regarding cultural traits... I have met some very nice Russians, but the majority.... Try to keep an open mind and heart, and perhaps a bit of empathy for the poor buggers that have to endure the abuse of fools/customers.

You seem like a person I would like to call a friend.

[thrilled]

I do understand what you are saying.Being i'm A farang I usually just roll with the punches.If I was in the U.S.,I would have problems.But being that i'm in Thailand I just roll with the flo.I try not to make waves.

[Kitsune]

No you are not being oversensitive.

Thailand over the last few years has been overrun by nationalism mixed with mass-tourism overdose.

Thai people have seen too many tourists, and not the nicest ones and are now more jaded than anyone.

One top of this they are getting fed nationalism at very occasion.

Every other country outside Thailand has now a quotation in most people scale of contempt and except to be treated accordingly.

What you tell us is somewhat frightening because I thought people with money like yourself were excluded and always treated well.

if now they start treating well-off people that way, it is not a good sign for the average foreigner.

Thank you for sharing and well done in your calm keeping!

[keithkarmann]

Have to agree with the racist comments, when my girlfriend is clearly talking about me to her family she always says falang and not my real name. These are the people who expect a big dowry if I marry my girlfriend and they can't even be bothered to learn to say my name. If they can be bothered to help me to learn to speak Thai then we could have a conversation, but lets face it Thais can be very nice people but as a foreigner in the majority relationships we will never be accepted into the Thai family culture probably due to some racist beliefs.

[tubby johnson]

Such racism stems from Thai ignorance. The Thais have valid complaints about Indians' body odour and hygiene issues, but otherwise such rudeness and racism in the hospitality industry are unacceptable. If Thailand's tourism industry is going to prosper, then such issues need to be dealt with.

[darren84310]

Well written op. Thailand is a racist and xenophobic culture, there is no getting around it. You mentioned the pecking order in Thailand and unfortunately for you, Indian tourists tend to be placed at the bottom of this order.

I'll echo what others have said above and give you credit for keeping a cool head.

100% correct unfortunately.

[rayongchelsea]

Being called a farang never even registered with me as being racists until I heard it on here a couple of years ago. So all of 27 years!!

I was quite shocked..if you find something like this as racist you will see shadows at every turn.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ableguy]

You cry racism yet refer to others as farangs. tut tut.

What a crock of sh.....t, another racist, he is quoting a Thai word used every day by Thais referring to us. Get a life.

[whoisyourdaddy]

You cry racism yet refer to others as farangs. tut tut.

What a crock of sh.....t, another racist, he is quoting a Thai word used every day by Thais referring to us. Get a life.

Us? who is us?

Just because Thai;s use it everyday it does not make it less racist or less acceptable or more/less insulting, or more/less ignorant

[ultimate weapon]

I feel that i need to reply to OP's post point by point and it's sad they don't allow you to quote the OP's post and i know the rules you aren't supposed to alter the post you are quoting but i am not doing it i am replying to each point in that long post point by point.

Firstly OP it happens to everyone regardless of race. You think japanese, koreans, chinese and so on don't face problems? You are wrong. I was checking out at windsor hotel and the lady who looked very chinese was speaking some gibberish thai and i couldn't understand it but there was a man standing next to me not one of the hotel staff maybe a delivery guy or maybe another hotel guest. He was thai and he understood what the lady was saying perfectly and was laughing she was probably insulting me for no reason other than being mean spirited and many thai people are like that just read the many different threads here. Anyway i got back my deposit and checked out of the hotel and didn't care whatever that old hag said.

Without further ado let me try to address every single point you made in your post, Now i reiterate your post is very long and you explained a number of situations you were in and gave your POV and expressed an opinion in each different situation i wish to address every single point you made without anyone having to go back to your original post and read it again.

<<<I apologize if this sounds like a rant, as this post kinda is.
Let me preface this post by saying I'm Canadian of Indian nationality. I was born and grew up in Canada. I have been to Thailand many times in the past few years for work as well as for pleasure. I would consider myself well travelled and have been to every continent with the exception of Antarctica. I have lived in China for 3 years working in Shanghai and in Hunan. I'm not naive to racism or differential treatment, though I really will not tolerate it and call it out if I experience it. On this last trip I felt as if I was treated like a second class citizen. I do speak basic conversational thai as it's necessary for my position at work.>>>>

Nice. Most of us here are foreigners and non native to thailand. We come from all over the world. The one thing that all of us have in common is that we all speak and read english because let's be honest a foreigner that does not speak or read english wouldn't be posting in here for obvious reasons and i doubt many thai people would post here. Yet let's get this out of way and speak about your ethnicity and your physical apperance. You are indian and look indian. People have an impression of you. Period. Most of the time if it's a good impression people don't find offence with it but if it is a bad one yes they get offended but in both cases those are stereotypes. You can say foreigners of western descent probably give a good impression and it helps those westerners whom are punks and disrespectful because they wouldn't be mistreated because by and large westerners give a good impression so the A-holes get a pass. It doesn't work that way for non westerners like russians, chinese, indians etc because many of such people behave badly in thailand and you do know that many chinese that do not come from china face the same sort of situations as you.

<<<<There were several issues I faced:

While I was in Bangkok I decided to go for dinner at the Marriott Cafe in Bangkok. I went there and the hostess at the front desk asked me if I was staying there. (Which I wasn't, I stayed at the Four Seasons) then she told me the price, and what I found weird was asked me how I would be paying. When I sat my waitress was nowhere to be seen. Not for drinks, cutlery not at all. I did see her fawning over another table near mine but could not get her attention. She was rather prompt to plop the bill down on my table sans eye contact. I did ask for coffee at that point. She was begrudgingly served. I paid the bill via card and did tip decently above and beyond the included service charge. When I was leaving the front desk host actually yelled across to the waitress in Thai "did he pay?" I felt a bit embarrassed as other people probably heard what she said. I was going to make an issue of her behaviour at that point, but had other stuff to attend to and really did not want to waste my energy with that.>>>>

I don't think that was a racist issue. She probably didn't like you, she was a very rude person and non professional in her job etc. Remember what i wrote about earlier in my post about mean spirited thai people. It happens to everyone and probably at anytime. You truly need to discern it if is racism or you were unfortunate enough to meet a rude and unprofessional staff because they can appear anywhere in any place. In this very instance there wasn't a case of racism at all. Your race was not mentioned. You were just making assumptions that she served you poorly due to your race when it could be a whole host of other factors. This isn't a racism issue.

<<<<In another incident I was waiting in line at a restaurant near the Sofitel in Bangkok. The server went right to the older white guy right behind me who was with his young "girlfriend". I did speak up but was ignored by staff at first. Though the British guy did tell me I should learn the "pecking order in Thailand" I would liked to have shown him the pecking order of my fist but decided that was not in my best interest at the time. The hostess did come back saying sorry but I said your loss and went to a different spot a few doors down.>>>>

It's probably racism but in my own observation an older person especially an older white person gets more respect probably due to the good impressions they give. Mind you it affects everyone that isn't an older white guy. This means all people of other races probably including young thai men and younger white men. Now surprisingly you won't find many TV posters here actually sympathsize with you here because the demographic here are mostly older white men and strangely or actually non surprisingly they aren't shy of being hypocritical when they find out someone from their demographic got the better end of treatment.

<<<<In Pattaya at my hotel I requested late check out at my hotel. Being a top status tier member of their program late check out is one of the benefits. When I checked at the front desk was advised the hotel was full. Sorry. The lady happened to use a certain term for Indian in Thai which I find pretty offensive when speaking with her manager. I went online and saw 6 room types available. I emailed my concierge at my program and cc d the GM and GSM. I got a call 5 minutes later from the GSM and advised it was a misunderstanding. He said my room type was not available tomorrow and he called the guest who was supposed to stay there and they agreed to switch rooms. This is actually a crock of BS as corner rooms are not a room type booked online. It's just standard and deluxe and suites. I did inquire with him why I was been referred by the front desk ladies as khon kheak. He said she probably didn't know you spoke Thai. I explained that is irrelevant and somewhat offensive. I explained that my race had no bearing on my displeasure. He said he will address this in training.>>>>>

Now i am sure the issue with you here is the term they used on you which is "khon khek" which simply means an indian person. Do you know what they call a chinese, japanese and a white person?

Now i want to ask you do you feel that a chinese person should be offended if someone calls him a "khun chin", a japanese feels offended if someone calls him "khon nippon" and a westerner should feel offended if someone calls him a "farang". Seriously please answer this for me.

<<<Went to a rock bar on Walking Street solo. Was odd as soon I was joined by a Motley crew of a Brit, a Russian, and a Australian. (Cue a bar joke) . Band was playing requests so I went and threw down 20 baht in their tip box and requested a Radiohead song. The guitarist said no sorry we don't know that. Fair enough. Then the Brit requested the same song and they played it. Weird.>>>>

Yup weird do you think he was racist? Now he have preferable treatment to a white guy do you think that's racist?

<<<<I'm trying to figure out the social eccentricities of Thai culture. I've always been pretty respectful, tip well, not loud, and smile. Yet I feel I'm met with an almost venomous response. I by no means wish to generalize either as there have been some people that have been kind and helpful. Like last night when I got lost. I think maybe it's loss of face? Maybe certain Thais feel being called out by an "Indian" is a great loss of face compared to a farang? I would think it would be better for those involved to judge people as individuals and how they treat you. Perhaps Thai's are more tolerant with poor behaviour of farangs? I enjoyed a relaxing massage while a few stalls over a nice Australian woman who was is patts visiting her father in law was getting a massage. It was nice hearing her full life story while getting my niche massage. Or the British guy who puked all over a fruit vendors mangos. Or all the Russians who are so so friendly and understand what a line up is. Or the Chinese who include everyone on the bus in their conversation and make beautiful throat sounds when clearing out phlegm. (I kid I kid)>>>>

This is really disrespectful from you. Now to actually try to make racist insults on ppl of other races and nationalities all because you deem that they get better treatment from you that is wrong.

Would you like to hear how people that look like you and are from the same ethnic group as you behave? I am sure you are well aware how indians from india or who knows indians in general behave. I have heard stories of numerous massage places in pattaya that have banned indians or indian looking people. You should do some self reflection and well not whine about it. Honestly you are rather too sensitive and i feel you think you expect everyone in here to somehow serenade you with words like " oh you poor soul", "those racist thais!"

Here this is my response and i hope it opens your eyes

[ultimate weapon]

Well written op. Thailand is a racist and xenophobic culture, there is no getting around it. You mentioned the pecking order in Thailand and unfortunately for you, Indian tourists tend to be placed at the bottom of this order.

I'll echo what others have said above and give you credit for keeping a cool head.

DO you feel that indian tourists are below due to their own behavior or just simply due to thai biasness?

Let's change it to chinese tourists. Now we see a 180 degree change. It's suddenly justified to treat chinese tourists badly and ignore the bad behavior of tourists of other nationalities.

[tx22cb]

I think the OP's stories paint a pattern of a form of discrimination/racism.

Unfortunately, "coloured" people tend to get the short end of the stick. Chinese Thais also sneer at dark-skinned up-country Thais, so it's not only coloured foreigners.

Whatever your colour, I find it helps if you look rich - clothes, ties, cufflinks, well-groomed, nice car - all very superficial, I know.

Thais are a hierarchical society and very "class" conscious. Heck, Thais discriminate within themselves too.

Go to any shop (or most situations for that matter), and the Rich/Hi-So/High-Ranked Thai person will get preferential treatment over "ordinary" Thais.

I would try to speak with the top management if you have issues - they are usually expats and will know how a bad reputation in a small country like TH will quickly reverberate overseas to their larger home markets.

[ultimate weapon]

Guys i suggest you all read the last paragraph of op's post in which he berates all other nationalities bad behaviors BUT unsurprisingly leaves out how indians or kheks behave in thailand.

Yup some russian people don;t line up, british ppl are drunks and puke over a stall vendor's fruits, some western woman talks too much and chinese tourists talk too loudly and according to OP they all get 5 star VIP treatment while poor him that doesn't engage in such behavior or indian and indian looking ppl are totally perfect.

It's truly a case of some over sensitive person because indians rank below chinese in terms of manners they aren't angels either but you notice somehow OP leaves them out.

[ultimate weapon]

I think the OP's stories paint a pattern of a form of discrimination/racism.

Unfortunately, "coloured" people tend to get the short end of the stick. Chinese Thais also sneer at dark-skinned up-country Thais, so it's not only coloured foreigners.

Whatever your colour, I find it helps if you look rich - clothes, ties, cufflinks, well-groomed, nice car - all very superficial, I know.

Thais are a hierarchical society and very "class" conscious. Heck, Thais discriminate within themselves too.

Go to any shop (or most situations for that matter), and the Rich/Hi-So/High-Ranked Thai person will get preferential treatment over "ordinary" Thais.

I would try to speak with the top management if you have issues - they are usually expats and will know how a bad reputation in a small country like TH will quickly reverberate overseas to their larger home markets.

Do u think a chinese person should complain when he gets discriminated in thailand cos a farang was there?

[rayongchelsea]

You cry racism yet refer to others as farangs. tut tut.

What a crock of sh.....t, another racist, he is quoting a Thai word used every day by Thais referring to us. Get a life.

Us? who is us?

Just because Thai;s use it everyday it does not make it less racist or less acceptable or more/less insulting, or more/less ignorant

Nonsense.

It's a term to generally "group" western ( white skin) foreigners in a generic sense.

Not arguing that used in a certain context it can be derogatory..have experienced that full on

recently.

To call you a farang when they know your name is also unacceptable.

In general to Thais we are farangs - just can't see it as racist/ preduice..

Although again to your point, I will admit that it is being used more and more with intent..

But for the average joe a farang is just a farang.

I hope I haven't offended you by using the f..... Word.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[bigbamboo]

How many of your over 2000 posts...are actually NO POST...?

Sometimes less is more. Or maybe he is just the strong silent type?

As for the OP you should just chill. Thais can be as xenophobic as any other people on Earth despite all the smiles and 'Thainess'.... or maybe because of it.... as they actually seem to believe this makes them superior.

Anyway, don't let it get you down.... you can't help being Canadian.

[ultimate weapon]

How many of your over 2000 posts...are actually NO POST...?

Sometimes less is more. Or maybe he is just the strong silent type?

As for the OP you should just chill. Thais can be as xenophobic as any other people on Earth despite all the smiles and 'Thainess'.... or maybe because of it.... as they actually seem to believe this makes them superior.

Anyway, don't let it get you down.... you can't help being Canadian.

indians are xenophobic too but for some odd reason you won't find op complaining about it or rather for obvious reasons.

[ultimate weapon]

Well most people are a bit racist, bigoted, and/or xenophobic. Personally, I'm not. But Indians are cheap charlies and do smell pretty bad.

Can we add in how they don't ever self reflect and always seem to find offence over the smallest things?

[LindsayBKK]

http://www.thai2english.com/dictionary/guest.html

"Guest" is another word

Just so you all know link above

for a few extra words & meanings.

Edited February 20, 2014 by LindsayBKK

[HardenedSoul]

Well most people are a bit racist, bigoted, and/or xenophobic. Personally, I'm not. But Indians are cheap charlies and do smell pretty bad.

Can we add in how they don't ever self reflect and always seem to find offence over the smallest things?

Why don't you just come out and use a racial slur because clearly, your 6 rapid-fire responses to the OP have failed to make your point to your satisfaction.

People could be forgiven for thinking you don't like Indians

[ultimate weapon]

Well most people are a bit racist, bigoted, and/or xenophobic. Personally, I'm not. But Indians are cheap charlies and do smell pretty bad.

Can we add in how they don't ever self reflect and always seem to find offence over the smallest things?

Why don't you just come out and use a racial slur because clearly, your 6 rapid-fire responses to the OP have failed to make your point to your satisfaction.

People could be forgiven for thinking you don't like Indians

Racial slur? You mean something like khun khek? You know an "indian" person in thai. Is that a slur? OP found that a racial slur fyi.He was called a khek which simply means an indian and he thought that was racist.

He should have been referred to as a "canadian" and when ppl see the word canadian they think oh yes a hi so white person but then they see indian but still the word canadian takes precedence over indian so a canadian indian is more hi so than just simply indian.

Focus on OP instead and see he makes the biggest issues out of the smallest things.

[sdanielmcev]

There are only three races. Indians are not a race. And, yes, I think you are being too sensitive.

[ultimate weapon]

Meanwhile a non "caucasian" looking person was getting treat like crap in india and somehow non of the indians felt sorry for him of how they treated him in india but these same ppl were complaining of "racism" when they were not treated like kings.

[wym]

Yes I REALLY think we should have the whole "farang" discussion again.

But let's continue it here where it belongs, certainly nothing to do with racism:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/697759-what-does-being-called-a-farang-mean-to-you-good-or-bad/?p=7314848