Five tiger cubs seized in Thai police wildlife haul

[webfact]

Five tiger cubs seized in Thai police wildlife haul

BANGKOK, February 20, 2014 (AFP) - Thai police said Thursday they have seized five wild tiger cubs along with hundreds of other animals being smuggled to neighbouring Laos, for apparent onward sale in Vietnam or China as delicacies.

Highway officers on Wednesday stopped a pick-up truck in the northeast which was apparently headed for the Laotian border, a policeman told AFP.

A search revealed the endangered tiger cubs, all of them around a month old.

There were also hundreds of other creatures including monitor lizards and turtles, he said, adding traffickers use Thailand as a transit point to Laos and then to buyers in lucrative Asian markets.

"The final destination is either Vietnam or China where they like to eat these animals," according to Captain Pornchai Sangsila.

"The tigers will normally be kept in Laos for one year to be raised before being sold on."

Two Thai men have been charged with illegal possession of protected animals.

Television showed footage from Wednesday night of the baby tigers cradled by handlers and being bottle-fed milk.
Under international law the trade in tigers and tiger parts is strictly banned, except for non-commercial reasons such as scientific research.

Thailand is one of just 13 countries hosting fragile tiger populations -- estimated at fewer than 300 in the wild -- and is a hub of international smuggling.

Worldwide, tiger numbers are estimated to have fallen to only 3,200 from about 100,000 a century ago.

Wildlife experts say the kingdom is also a globally significant trade hub for turtles and tortoises and have urged authorities to do more to arrest and prosecute high-level smugglers.


-- (c) Copyright AFP 2014-02-20

[thesetat2013]

Good they can catch even some of these people.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[chainarong]

No doubt about these scum ,Thailand is in tatters and these low life are still operating , congratulations to the police in there efforts in this field of police work.

[taipan1949]

No doubt about these scum ,Thailand is in tatters and these low life are still operating , congratulations to the police in there efforts in this field of police work.

Would like to see the death penalty for people buying these animals and people taking possession of ivory. That is just me.

[Fookhaht]

Finally, the undisputed "hub" of something...

[Jeremy50]

300 wild tigers in Thailand? That is a complete lie, there have been no wild tigers seen in Thailand for many years. Tigers need large areas of forest to roam, these types of habitat no longer exist in Thailand. Deforestation and hunting have wiped out many species of animals here. Wild tigers do exist in Burma which has large areas of forest almost untouched by humans.

Laos may have some, Vietnam probably not. Malaysia has a very few.

[jpeg]

Are there no NGOs attempting to educate these bloody barbarians? I see on another site even China has foregone it's dog boiling/eating (ye gods) festival along with Korea and much progress has been made in Vietnam with the dog trade. These human beings have no souls.

[djjamie]

Well done on the interception. This is rare though.

I cross the Nong Khai - Vientiane border every 2 to 3 weeks and have done for 16 months. Not once has my car been checked. I can even get across the border without my passport being stamped. My wife does get out and line up though for the stamp and I drive through the boom gate without anyone giving me a second look.

If you wanted to get something across that border then it is not hard. Pity really and I hope they crack down on this.

Edited February 20, 2014 by djjamie

[noitom]

The Thai press blatantly shifts the focus of the article from "two Thai Men" to transporting to Laos, Vietnam , and China "where they eat them." The Thai men have not been arrested, but only charged. So you know what that means.

[Why ask]

It's a shame the police can't arrest the real tigers, along with the other hundreds of animals associated with the caretaker government.

[Robby nz]

Don't forget that we have a caretaker deputy PM who still has charges to be heard against him for exporting endangered wildlife (tigers).

[MMarlow]

The Thai press blatantly shifts the focus of the article from "two Thai Men" to transporting to Laos, Vietnam , and China "where they eat them." The Thai men have not been arrested, but only charged. So you know what that means.

The only one blatantly shifting the focus is you.

"The Thai men have not been arrested, but only charged. So you know what that means."

Maybe you could tell us what this means? On second thoughts, keep it to yourself.

[nong38]

Well done to the police, its disgraceful that people can behave like this. Thais are not good with animals from what I have seen in the majority and they will do anything for money, the result is not their problem so long as they have a drink tonight.

When I first came here I asked a Thai senator where I could go to see crocodiles in the wild, he told me to go to a National Park. when I asked about outside the National Park he said to me 3000bts, a sad reflection but that is the reality as this story confirms.

[Somtamnication]

Disgusting.

[MMarlow]

300 wild tigers in Thailand? That is a complete lie, there have been no wild tigers seen in Thailand for many years. Tigers need large areas of forest to roam, these types of habitat no longer exist in Thailand. Deforestation and hunting have wiped out many species of animals here. Wild tigers do exist in Burma which has large areas of forest almost untouched by humans.

Laos may have some, Vietnam probably not. Malaysia has a very few.

It wasn't a lie, it was an estimation by people who are probably in a much better position to know than your pontification indicates. Unless you can show otherwise.

[bluebluewater]

Having the cubs in hand probably means the mothers of those cubs were killed.

Shame, shame, shame.

[tomacht8]

This trade is very old and it makes me sad.

Ten year old case!
A PT member running on last election list Nr. 10.
Free on bail until today.

10. Mr. Plodprasop Suraswadi

in 2005 Plodrasop was accused by the National Counter Corruption Committee and later found guilty and fired from his last bureaucrat post in 2007 because of his illegal permission to allow a trade export of one hundred Bengal Tigers to China by a private company.

Edited February 20, 2014 by tomacht8

[Jeremy50]

300 wild tigers in Thailand? That is a complete lie, there have been no wild tigers seen in Thailand for many years. Tigers need large areas of forest to roam, these types of habitat no longer exist in Thailand. Deforestation and hunting have wiped out many species of animals here. Wild tigers do exist in Burma which has large areas of forest almost untouched by humans.

Laos may have some, Vietnam probably not. Malaysia has a very few.

It wasn't a lie, it was an estimation by people who are probably in a much better position to know than your pontification indicates. Unless you can show otherwise.

Fine, back up your claim as you seem to agree with this number. Are you a wildlife expert? What areas are these tigers living in? I am basing my knowledge on reading and study. I am sure that Thailand would like the world to think that it still has wild tigers, but it simply isn't true.

[wilcopops]

all the more reason to question the ethics and practices of places like the Tiger Temple and the Sri Racha Tiger Zoo.

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

300 wild tigers in Thailand? That is a complete lie, there have been no wild tigers seen in Thailand for many years. Tigers need large areas of forest to roam, these types of habitat no longer exist in Thailand. Deforestation and hunting have wiped out many species of animals here. Wild tigers do exist in Burma which has large areas of forest almost untouched by humans.

Laos may have some, Vietnam probably not. Malaysia has a very few.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/may/17/thailand-jungles-rising-hopes-tiger

Noted that the article is from 2011, but does show the existence of wild tiger populations in Thailand. Quote from the article:

"Thailand is thought to be home to 250 to 300 wild tigers, though camera traps have revealed that Thaplan National Park has more of the animals than previously believed."

[onflipflops]

300 wild tigers in Thailand? That is a complete lie, there have been no wild tigers seen in Thailand for many years. Tigers need large areas of forest to roam, these types of habitat no longer exist in Thailand. Deforestation and hunting have wiped out many species of animals here. Wild tigers do exist in Burma which has large areas of forest almost untouched by humans.

Laos may have some, Vietnam probably not. Malaysia has a very few.

I don't know if the number of 300 is correct. I have heard 200 - 250, nobody really knows, but saying that there have been no wild tiger sightings for years in Thailand then you are really wrongly informed. Well, actual sightings by people are indeed rare, as it is an elusive animal that doesn't want to be seen, but camera traps often capture them in various parts of the country!

It is true the situation is far from good, but there are definitely still tigers in the wild in Thailand.

Park officials are fighting for conservation, and sometimes paying with their lives in battles with organized poacher gangs.

The question is for how long the Indochinese Tiger will remain.

I've never seen one, yet, though I don't give up.

Just this month I've found tracks: pug marks, scrapes and scratches which were undoubtly made by tiger.

Thailand still has quite a few large forested areas left. And I recommend you to pay a visit to these places. I've travelled around the world specifically for nature, but I honestly find Thailand one of the most exciting places for wildlife watching. It is certainly not the easiest place, but easy is not much fun in my opinion; one of the reasons why I enjoy it more here than in Africa. But that is just my opinion...

You need a lot of patience here in the dense jungles where even an elephant can hide from view at less than 10 metres.

[allan michaud]

So which so called "zoo" did the cubs come from? Sri Racha?

This is disgusting and I am absolutely certain the people charged are just the people transporting the animals and not the a'holes breeding them.

[allan michaud]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

300 wild tigers in Thailand? That is a complete lie, there have been no wild tigers seen in Thailand for many years. Tigers need large areas of forest to roam, these types of habitat no longer exist in Thailand. Deforestation and hunting have wiped out many species of animals here. Wild tigers do exist in Burma which has large areas of forest almost untouched by humans.

Laos may have some, Vietnam probably not. Malaysia has a very few.

It wasn't a lie, it was an estimation by people who are probably in a much better position to know than your pontification indicates. Unless you can show otherwise.

Fine, back up your claim as you seem to agree with this number. Are you a wildlife expert? What areas are these tigers living in? I am basing my knowledge on reading and study. I am sure that Thailand would like the world to think that it still has wild tigers, but it simply isn't true.

Wrong, there are still wild Tigers in Thailand, my friend and fellow wildlife photographer has photographed them on a number of occasions. Not sure what you have been reading but it is utter rubbish.

These cubs are clearly not wild so I sincerely hope someone will be investigating the monks at Sri Racha. Some DNA testing would show who the mothers are, it's not rocket science.

[wilcopops]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

300 wild tigers in Thailand? That is a complete lie, there have been no wild tigers seen in Thailand for many years. Tigers need large areas of forest to roam, these types of habitat no longer exist in Thailand. Deforestation and hunting have wiped out many species of animals here. Wild tigers do exist in Burma which has large areas of forest almost untouched by humans.

Laos may have some, Vietnam probably not. Malaysia has a very few.

It wasn't a lie, it was an estimation by people who are probably in a much better position to know than your pontification indicates. Unless you can show otherwise.

Fine, back up your claim as you seem to agree with this number. Are you a wildlife expert? What areas are these tigers living in? I am basing my knowledge on reading and study. I am sure that Thailand would like the world to think that it still has wild tigers, but it simply isn't true.

Wrong, there are still wild Tigers in Thailand, my friend and fellow wildlife photographer has photographed them on a number of occasions. Not sure what you have been reading but it is utter rubbish.

These cubs are clearly not wild so I sincerely hope someone will be investigating the monks at Sri Racha. Some DNA testing would show who the mothers are, it's not rocket science.

There are approximately 150 to 300 tigers in and around Thailand - they don't carry passports. Their situation is DIRE. largely because Thailand seems incapable of preventing encroachment and poaching. In fact aout 2 years ago a new population (group) was discovered somewhere in Eastern Thailand.

If the urgent situation is allowed to continue it looks as if Thailand all be the next country to preside over the demise of their indigenous Tiger population.

The people involved in the Tiger trade are all links in a long chain. This chain goes from the poorly paid local who is living on the breadline to the final customer who wants bits of Tiger in his wine. These are largely in China and Vietnam.

To catch a tiger, ship it etc needs the involvement on those who are EXPERTS in wildlife and those who are involved in the law enforcement side. they probably also work for the zoos who exploit these animals and the government departments charged with protecting them.

Zoos - or rather circuses like the Tiger Zoo and the Tiger Temple contribute to the trade in Tigers in various ways.

They misinform the public as to their own contribution - which is often not just nil, but actually damaging.

they encourage the trade in Tigers and other endangered species, and bot have been involved in allegedly illegal trading in Tigers, the Sri Racha Zoo exterminated dozens of tigers by feeding them infected Chickens.

the breeding programs give people the false impression that they are preserving Tigers' numbers when in fat the animals they produce ca NEVER be released into the wild or be part of a gene bank as they are bred without proper analysis of the genes and mating partners. This is in particular the case for the sub-species that inhabits Thailand (Tigris Corbetti).

The other thing is that places like the Temple consider themselves or claim to be an "animal refuge" - this is yet another way that hunters or those who catch the hunters, are encouraged to take animals from the wild in the hope that somewhere like the temple will pay money for them. A vet involved with the Tiger Temple actually asked on TV - where else could the tigers go?. in fact it has been suggested that Thailand has enough forest to accommodation up to 2000 tigers, if the ecosystem was not so brutalised by poaching and other human activities (MAE WONG dam for a start)

very few people have encountered tigers in the wild in Thailand - even in wildlife sanctuaries - they are normally photographed nowadays with motion sensitive cameras left for days strapped to likely trees etc. This also s less intrusive on the Tigers.

Population estimates are arrived at by analysis data from various sources - animals spoor, scat etc and photos taken and animals ID'd from this. Paw-prints can give a good idea as to the size, age and gender of the animals.

The main concern is to try and establish if there are breeding pairs in Thailand. A problem here is that as habitat is eroded, potential mates ca be separated. With a very small population the next problem is that of the gene pool - interbreeding - if a population gets too small, it can no longer successfully breed and twill implode.

Taking cubs from the wild therefore is a particularly heinous crime, it probably involved the death of the mother and deprives the eco-system in this case of FIVE new animals.

​

[wilcopops]

Let's get a few things straight -

1 - As far as I'm aware, there is as yet nothing to suggest the Tigers aren't from the wild.

2 - There are no monks at Sri Racha tiger Zoo.

3 - Although it is alleged the Temple - at Kanchanaburi - has illegally shipped tigers before, it would be unlikely to ship Tiger Cubs as they are a mjor source of income. On the other hand they have been asked by government officials to stop their illegal breeding program, so I suppose it is possible these could have been "surplus to requirements" - I think this is an unlikely explanation.

The Tiger Zoo at Sri Racha has at present about 400 tigers - i believe the majority are Bengal Tigers, therefore not indigenous to Thailand.

It is an established fact that a few years back they shipped about 100 tigers to China. Where they went or why they were shipped, I can't say, but it resulted in Deputy PM Plodprasop hang to appear in court as it has bee alleged that he illegally gave permission for the shipment.

The operations at the Sri Racha Zoo are uncannily like a Chinese tiger farm where tigers are production-line bred for there carcasses. Tigresses are kept perpetually impregnated and produce pus like on the production line. This often results in the Tigress being incapable of producing milk to suckle the cubs. to get round this new born cubs are suckled by pigs or other animals.

In Sri Raha this method is marketed as a zoo attraction, and it is even inferred that the tigress scales the piglets. It is hard to see what purpose this "switching" of off-spring can achieve that is of benefit to the animals, but it might explain an overloaded breeding program.

It would also be nice to know what numbers of Tigers are bred at the zoo and and if they are shipped to other "zoos" where when how and in what numbers are they shipped. It would also be nice to hear the zoo's justification of this on wildlife welfare and conservation grounds.

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

300 wild tigers in Thailand? That is a complete lie, there have been no wild tigers seen in Thailand for many years. Tigers need large areas of forest to roam, these types of habitat no longer exist in Thailand. Deforestation and hunting have wiped out many species of animals here. Wild tigers do exist in Burma which has large areas of forest almost untouched by humans.

Laos may have some, Vietnam probably not. Malaysia has a very few.

It wasn't a lie, it was an estimation by people who are probably in a much better position to know than your pontification indicates. Unless you can show otherwise.

Fine, back up your claim as you seem to agree with this number. Are you a wildlife expert? What areas are these tigers living in? I am basing my knowledge on reading and study. I am sure that Thailand would like the world to think that it still has wild tigers, but it simply isn't true.

Wrong, there are still wild Tigers in Thailand, my friend and fellow wildlife photographer has photographed them on a number of occasions. Not sure what you have been reading but it is utter rubbish.

These cubs are clearly not wild so I sincerely hope someone will be investigating the monks at Sri Racha. Some DNA testing would show who the mothers are, it's not rocket science.

Edited February 21, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

Well done on the interception. This is rare though.

I cross the Nong Khai - Vientiane border every 2 to 3 weeks and have done for 16 months. Not once has my car been checked. I can even get across the border without my passport being stamped. My wife does get out and line up though for the stamp and I drive through the boom gate without anyone giving me a second look.

If you wanted to get something across that border then it is not hard. Pity really and I hope they crack down on this.

...and do you rally think they'll go across the friendship bridge?

Have you any idea of the smell that big cats and other wild animals make???

well if they bribe enough people it might be possible, but why bother she there are literally dozens of places where a few crates - and a truck ca be dropped o a boat and swiftly whisked across the river.

Up near Nan/Phrae of course there is no river to cross.

Edited February 21, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

I'd say that this thread is actually mostly on a par with the Thai public reaction.

lots of indignation but eve more ignorance as to what the situation really is like.

Most seem concerned with the 5 tiger cubs - (the oooooh/aaaah! factor?) and little or no concern is shown for all the other endangered species in the hail.

One might expect westerners and expats to know more about the CITES treaty and endangered species, but if we don't know with all our educational background and decades of natural history TV, how can we expect Thailand to come up to speed on the issues?

do we seriously think that the 2 guys arrested are big-whigs in this operation? Will Jailing them stop the trade?

[peecee]

No doubt about these scum ,Thailand is in tatters and these low life are still operating , congratulations to the police in there efforts in this field of police work.

Would like to see the death penalty for people buying these animals and people taking possession of ivory. That is just me.

No it's not; a lot of people feel very strongly about these scumbags & harsh sentences are what's needed.

[wilcopops]

No doubt about these scum ,Thailand is in tatters and these low life are still operating , congratulations to the police in there efforts in this field of police work.

Would like to see the death penalty for people buying these animals and people taking possession of ivory. That is just me.

No it's not; a lot of people feel very strongly about these scumbags & harsh sentences are what's needed.

Really? - First you have to overcome one obstacle - Trading in Ivory is LEGAL in Thailand - the centre for ivory carving is Nakon Sawan.

the law says that you can only use ivory from Thai elephants that have died naturally - needless to say this does not in anyway near tally with the amount of ivory in circulation in Thailand.

Yingluck made a great speech to the gathered nations of the world at last years CITES conference in Bkk - and did........well nothing as far as I know.

[wilcopops]

Before anyone goes over the top in congratulating the police on their work, one might check on the amount of trade that gets through.

One also has to consider HOW all this stuff gets through......well a lot of it could well be down to corruption in enforcement agencies.........it also has to be said that the OCCASIONAL bust could be construed as just enough to give the impression that something effective is being done.

Make no mistake, not just in Thailand but unless something MORE is done, the illegal wildlife trade WILL bring about the extinction of many large mammals as well as countless other "lesser" species of plants and animals. in the next 10 years.