Retirement: If Not Thailand, Where?

[seasia]

For me I guess it would be Italy for the summer months and then split time elsewhere, mix Cambodia, Vietnam and perhaps Philippines .

A friend of mine who I`ve lost contact with used to go regularly to Croatia, that was his choice as ultimate retirement destination, seemed to really like it there, I`ve never been.

Ecuador sounds interesting but have never been there either.

Interesting thread

[Seekingasylum]

What is it about drifters who visit a country for a few weeks and then decide to live and retire there because they 'loved' it.

Escape artists and folk who can't afford to live in their own country without working seem to be the demographic.m

[craigt3365]

What is it about drifters who visit a country for a few weeks and then decide to live and retire there because they 'loved' it.

Escape artists and folk who can't afford to live in their own country without working seem to be the demographic.m

Not true. We enjoy the different aspect of another country and find it exciting and interesting. Many of us can easily to afford to live back home. Just don't want to.

[Showbags]

What is it about drifters who visit a country for a few weeks and then decide to live and retire there because they 'loved' it.

Escape artists and folk who can't afford to live in their own country without working seem to be the demographic.m

What are you saying...they should hate it before moving ?

[SanukDii]

Uraguay. Same climate as Socal but without the earthquakes. Bit pricey compared to here though

Spain. Barcelona. Really miss the art and cafe culture you find all over Europe.... And they have a great footy team to support. Cannot find it in my heart to get behind Buriram hehehehe

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[Jingthing]

For anyone curious, I gathered some info residency in Croatia and Colombia.

Don't rely on it or anything, but it's a start.

You can move to Croatia for temporary residency for one year at a time. After five years, you can get permanent residency and be included in their nationalized health care system. The rules seem pretty liberal.

For one year residency:

1. Show some reason you want to live there. This could just be a rented apartment or house you purchased. You actually MUST have a residence. I assume a hotel room will not do.

2. Show means to live there. 100 Euros per day. That's about 50K USD annually. Not sure how you show this. One link even mentioned credit cards. No info on whether you need to import the money (I don't think so) or just prove you have it liquid somewhere. It's also clear to me there is no requirement to SPEND the 100 Euros a day. After all they're just checking you can support yourself for ONE YEAR. If you did need to import and park the 50K and show it every year that's not so good, but I don't think that's the case.

3. Must show proof of health insurance. No info on issues with preexisting conditions for Croatian private insurance.

4. Birth certificate apostilled.

Apply locally. I think in some areas, that might mean at the police station!

Anyway for people interested, it's apparently a desirable country and doesn't sound that hard.

COLOMBIA.

News flash. Colombia has recently made major changes to their immigration laws.

Generally described as a tightening, and also increased fees especially for Americans specifically.

As the topic is about retirement, it has become somewhat harder.

For the first three years, applicant must show documentation of required income like from the pension provider (not much at all, based on 3x minimum wage, so under 1000 dollars monthly) and have that document apostilled.

Almost all of these Latin American countries have a bug up their arse with this apostille business. It's such a hassle. One time I can see, but now it's three.

A great feature is after the first three years, you can make it permanent.

Cheers.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Jingthing

[jamhar]

When my pension kicks in, I would consider Ecuador, Chile, or Panama. I wouldn't consider any other country in Asia right now. Burma 10 years from now might get interesting though! Or of course for me back in the U.S.S.A. would not require a visa.

Count me in for central america

[Jingthing]

I've been to Costa Rica and for some reason it didn't do it for me.

I am interested enough in Panama to consider a long trip there. I won't be eligible to move there though yet ... my pension comes later.

For Panama you don't need a pension IF you are very wealthy (not me).

Thailand is VERY UNUSUAL in having a bank account retirement option.

Ecuador does as well (you lock it up, can't touch it).

Also the Philippines.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Jingthing

[lopburi3]

This question was not posed to me, but I feel compelled to answer. One trip to the Philippines was enough for me. I have never seen a country that does so little for their people. The graft & corruption is far beyond what I expected. That is a country sorely in need to a takeover by its citizens. It is terrible how they treat their own people. (Yes, I realize that a lot of foreigners enjoy Angeles City, but not me.)

As for AC it is the Pattaya (without the beach) of Thailand and not really a real example of the Philippines. If going there believe I would head to Cebu or one of the other cities (not Manila center but maybe outside). Cebu City would still provide good medical facilities and a bit like Chiang Mai in Thailand (not weather but city size and facilities). But as said Thailand is a bit more developed in most all respects. But having a population willing to communicate in English and moving from an Asian country would think Philippines would be a good choice for many. They do have retirement plans and even just using a tourist visa entry can be up to three years now before you have to exit/return. Good beer and wine compared with Thailand but food variety is less. Recent negotiated settlements with most groups should provide an increase in stability for the long term.

[cassde]

Try Iloilio for a good all round experience.

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[Jingthing]

Cebu City is alright. Don't forget the STORMS in the Philippines. That's likely going to get worse.

[lopburi3]

Actually Cebu is normally outside the storm paths so a plus for that. But believe most expats would be in cement huts so not a huge problem - I never had any damage in a simple western style house on Clark in the 4 years I lived there and never major damage in town itself - although the volcano did a number soon after I departed.

[Jingthing]

So has anyone here spent time in Medellin Colombia?

The more I hear about it, the better it sounds.

The residency path of three years of hassle followed by permanency is still a great offer.

Anyway, here's an interesting comparison of Medellin to Panama City?

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/on-retirement/2011/07/11/6-reasons-to-consider-medellin-for-retirement-

Medellin, Colombia, is emerging as a top potential overseas retirement spot. The modest cost-of-living, pleasant climate, and friendly people are drawing individuals from all over the world. Here are six reasons to consider Medellin for retirement.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Jingthing

[Showbags]

Isn't/wasn't Medilin the mafia capital of the world at some stage ?

[craigt3365]

Kathleen Peddicord is the same lady that started International Living. She's very oriented towards doing seminars, selling books and real estate. Extremely biased.

[Jingthing]

Kathleen Peddicord is the same lady that started International Living. She's very oriented towards doing seminars, selling books and real estate. Extremely biased.

Well, you're right to be skeptical but I have found a number of sources validating her observations about Medellin. For example the politeness of the REAL taxi drivers, which for me is a strong draw after experiencing no taxi Pattaya.

At this point, as I am looking to POSSIBLE future choices, and won't have unlimited resources to check out ALL possibilities in depth in person, so one way of narrowing the options is through internet research.

Her video did remind me about the problem of hot and humid weather in Panama and the fact that it is not a good walking city. A big plus for Panama for me is a long history of a Chinese community, thus some good Chinese food, unlike Medellin.

I had been interested in Cuenca, but yes the housing prices have gone up a lot, it's quite a high elevation, and apparently the weather isn't as perfect as promoted (it gets cold for long periods, relative cold for a person coming from Thailand).

Medellin is lower elevation, a much bigger population city than Cuenca which for some would be a negative but for me is perhaps a plus, and so far its sounds like the hype about the weather there may be more true than in Cuenca. Cuenca sounds on the boring side. Medellin definitely sounds less boring. Possibly even TOO EXCITING ... that's what long visits are for finding out about. (BTW, the Medellin cocaine empire days are over.)

From my personal background, I didn't really like my one experience in Central America (Costa Rica) but have enjoyed various South American trips including Peru, Brazil, and Argentina. Which might be another clue for me towards South America, though of course Medellin is only one place in South America.

Cheers.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Jingthing

[craigt3365]

5-6 years ago we went to visit Panama and CR as a possible place to retire. We quite liked both, but in our opinion, neither were better than Thailand. Security is a big deal there. All the houses have bars on their windows, etc. And in CR (not sure about Panama) the "green" season is a real problem. I guess it rains buckets for months.

We went to Boquete in Panama as it was recommended as the #1 place to retire outside the US by AARP. Wow...I can't even imagine how they made their decision. Dog poo all over the sidewalks, which literally seem to roll up around dark. Only one very small grocery store. Dodgy weather. Not easy transport there. We spent one night and left.

Everybody's got their own opinion, and until you experience it, for at least several months, you'll never really know if it's for you. In my wildest dreams I never thought I'd be living near Pattaya. But we quite like it! I met a guy living in Arusha, Tanzania who loved it! What a hole.

Colombia is very high on my list of places to visit. Seems it's made quite the turnaround lately. If you ever go, let us know how you liked it!

[Naam]

So has anyone here spent time in Medellin Colombia?

The more I hear about it, the better it sounds.

The residency path of three years of hassle followed by permanency is still a great offer.

Anyway, here's an interesting comparison of Medellin to Panama City?

Medellin, Colombia, is emerging as a top potential overseas retirement spot. The modest cost-of-living, pleasant climate, and friendly people are drawing individuals from all over the world. Here are six reasons to consider Medellin for retirement.

have a German friend living in Medellin (married to a Colombiana) living in Medellin since ~7-8 years who is very happy.

[T_Dog]

For me I will return home (Is Texas a foreign country? ) No more dealing with Immigration, cheap grain fed steaks and reasonable wine prices

I'm thinking its preferable to split my time between the US and several countries

Gotta think outside the box here...

I was back in the USA for four months and was surprised to see that many things are cheaper there than in Thailand now. Vegetables are still more, but off the shelf items cost less. Thailand has lost the cost of living advantage I am afraid. Find a college town and things are even cheaper.

[Naam]

Kathleen Peddicord is the same lady that started International Living. She's very oriented towards doing seminars, selling books and real estate. Extremely biased.

Well, you're right to be skeptical but I have found a number of sources validating her observations about Medellin. For example the politeness of the REAL taxi drivers, which for me is a strong draw after experiencing no taxi Pattaya.

At this point, as I am looking to POSSIBLE future choices, and won't have unlimited resources to check out ALL possibilities in depth in person, so one way of narrowing the options is through internet research.

Her video did remind me about the problem of hot and humid weather in Panama and the fact that it is not a good walking city. A big plus for Panama for me is a long history of a Chinese community, thus some good Chinese food, unlike Medellin.

I had been interested in Cuenca, but yes the housing prices have gone up a lot, it's quite a high elevation, and apparently the weather isn't as perfect as promoted (it gets cold for long periods, relative cold for a person coming from Thailand).

Medellin is lower elevation, a much bigger population city than Cuenca which for some would be a negative but for me is perhaps a plus, and so far its sounds like the hype about the weather there may be more true than in Cuenca. Cuenca sounds on the boring side. Medellin definitely sounds less boring. Possibly even TOO EXCITING ... that's what long visits are for finding out about. (BTW, the Medellin cocaine empire days are over.)

From my personal background, I didn't really like my one experience in Central America (Costa Rica) but have enjoyed various South American trips including Peru, Brazil, and Argentina. Which might be another clue for me towards South America, though of course Medellin is only one place in South America.

Cheers.

JT,

old Italian friend (Polish wife) moved to Panama last year after spending weeks investigating. he is utterly disappointed and counts the days till he is able to leave. will try to find some of his (forum) comments and post them here.

[craigt3365]

I've got a good friend from Canada who's trying to figure out where to retire. I met him in CR, where he bought property....and now regrets it. He doesn't like CR. He's traveling here soon to check out Thailand.

He's got friends who are trying to get him to move to Panama as they love it there. I'm still waiting to hear from him why they love it. Again, in our opinion, Panama was OK, just not the best option for us. Quite a few of the areas around downtown are VERY dodgy.

[lopburi3]

I would use a lot of caution in believing much in print as feel most are likely to be made for monetary compensation. Remember 20 or more years ago the little city of Nong Khai being a top in the world according to a major retirement publication (with, in my opinion, nothing available for normal expats without Thailand experience). There were however some real estate/land businesses advertising at that time.

[kimbathewhitelion]

When my pension kicks in, I would consider Ecuador, Chile, or Panama. I wouldn't consider any other country in Asia right now. Burma 10 years from now might get interesting though! Or of course for me back in the U.S.S.A. would not require a visa.

I think Burma is more like 3-5 years. Vietnam for now & looking back would be my choice. Thailand is overly commercialized with insane import taxes. If I were to buy a $7 bottle of wine from the States, I'd pay $40-$60 here, closer to the later.

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[ozzydom]

To all;

So, what I'm hearing is Ecuador seems to be #1, Philippines, Laos and Cambodia (Texas is just too foreign for me, but I doooo like my steaks).

For me personally, it was a struggle between Thailand and Ecuador. Siam won because I'd been here 8-10 times before, dating back to washing up on a barren Pattaya Beach in 1979 in the Navy (it was just a handful of open air bars, and a dozen hookers that were outnumbered by Germans who all seemed to have month-long vacations working for Bosch. Acht du leiber, what a bunch of pervs).

I do think it's important to always have a Plan B and C rattling around in the back of your head. Personally I retired early from the Treasury Dept., I'm not wealthy by any means but in Chiang Mai I feel like Scrooge McDuck. I rent a new condo (a glorified Marriott Hotel type of room, but what passes as a "condo" in the kingdom), have a maid, wifi, cable (sadly sporting only one English-language channel that seems to show the latest installment of DIE HARD on an endless loop)... I've fallen into a lifestyle routine that can easily be handled on 35,000 baht a month (including rent, which the women I've dated complain I'm being ripped off but it a laughable 9000 baht a month)--- I have a so-called retirement visa and scored Thai drivers licenses (why they don't just do MC endorsements is beyond me, but oh well... when in Rome) and am able to travel on a whim. The sum of which is life is probably pretty damn good here compared to most of the rest of the world.. I couldn't live like this in Portland or Denver.

Ecuador still looms as Plan B. Esmeraldes or Cuenca. Higher crime, cheaper gas. I could bone up on Espanol by watching Telemundo,

The Philippines? I was stationed there for 3 years in the Nav... Higher crime, even more trash, weaker infrastructure (depending upon where you live, none). I love remote beaches but get sand crazy eventually. Anywhere undisturbed in PI is far, far away from anywhere. The peso goes as far on a sawbuck as does baht, but it has a completely different vibe and everyone seems to be out to rip you off. I don't get that in Chiang Mai. And go too far south and you've got issues staying alive.

Plan C: Malta, specifically, Gozo. Safest country on the planet. English is widely spoken (most flats are owned by UK'ers and subleased), Beaches, scuba diving, bicycles, jugs of wine, loaves of bread & thou me. I can't afford it year round, but it's do-able 4-5 months out of the year.

Australia: wildly expensive. I love it but I was in Perth in December and paid $11.50 for a Big Mac (not a combo meal mind you... just twoallbeefpattiesspecialsaucelettucecheeseonaseasameseedbun). Outrageous. Gas was 6.50 a gallon (yes, an Imperial Gallon, but c'mon....). The cheapest hotel I could find was $125 a night. A can of Coke was $4..50 at a gas station (I was looking for "aine" at that price). Aside from the fact that Australia doesn't want anyone with less than a gazillion dollars retiring there, anyone could live cheaper on Maui.

I've been all over Thailand... next year maybe Chiang Rai. I love the beaches but the high season hordes of ever increasing numbers of Russian party animals is insufferable.

Do I have complaints? Sure... Thais drive scooters like Ty fighters defending the Death Star. I'm convinced Tuk-Tuks are operated by retired Somalian pirates. The sidewalks in Chiang Mai are something out of the last reel of an Irwin Allen disaster movie. And much of the food seems to contain napalm left over from the Vietnam war... (Kaw Soi will surely be the focal point of my autopsy).

I am now, at heart a farang.

$6.50 per gallon is the same price as Thailand

[Felt 35]

I already consider next year to spend only 4-5 months here and rest of the year back home. Mostly because I think the heat begin to be unbearable here in the hot/dry season and because of property which need to be taken care of in Europe.

[Jingthing]

Looking into this more, I finding some more interesting tidbits about Colombia/Medellin, some good, some bad. It's definitely INTERESTING. Of course you can't have any real idea about a place until you at least visit, and on a short visit you're usually in the fantasy stage.

Renting apartments in Medellin ... you generally need two local property owning cosigners! That's quite hard. In some cases you can get by that by paying six months rent in advance (not so hard), but there are reported cases of foreigners being scammed by faux landlords renting places they don't have the authority to rent. This happens in a lot of countries, but I can see that the cosigner requirement sets up an environment where this is probably more common. That's pretty horrible!

Lawyers and helpers ... it seems typically needed by expats in the early stages. More so than in Thailand.

Spanish ... you've GOT to learn it. This could be a problem for older people. Could be a BIG problem.

Crime. While the crime is radically reduced from the cocaine empire days, there is still plenty of crime. For people who have lived in the USA, I doubt the level would be too shocking.

Range of housing options ... many levels of choices. A foreigner can't live in the slums and hopefully wouldn't have to, but there are reasonable options outside of the most trendy district. Including middle class, suburban feel areas if you like.

Short term exploration residency ... there are a number of good affordable housing options for that ...

Peruvian food ... it's booming in Medellin, obviously not as good as Peru, but it's some compensation for giving up Asian food (and Peruvian actually has Asian influences).

Speaking of which, there is a Thai lady with a restaurant there and pictures of her food looks pretty good, though expensive. Chinese food, there are lots of Colombian style Chinese places and I bet they're horrible, but it would be fun to find out.

Colombian food. Some nice specialties like soups. Very reliant on red meat. Their empanadas are fried not baked so not a health conscious traditional food culture. Generally not one of the great cuisines of the world, but in Medellin plenty of foreign food options.

Vegetables ... this is a culture not big on vegetables. Fruits ... probably comparable to Thailand in abundance.

Gay and straight common law couples can register with the Colombian government, even get residency visas based on that, but needs to be renewed more often than marriage. Nightlight option abundant for all, maybe too abundant.

Eye candy of the people. I think you know that!

Apparently even in Colombia, Medellin (greater region) people are considered especially beautiful.

Search some vids, you'll see.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[besth]

Not many years away from retirement, I would love that Thailand is the right place, but I must admit

I have been considering alternatives too.

In Asia I definitely would like Vietnam, but who knows how easy/difficult it will be by then. Cambodia I

would explore, but less appealing.

In Europe, Spain, lived there for many years, have friends and family, speak the language, not that expensive,

all would be a big plus. Malta I only visited briefly a long time ago and is more appealing (the unknown I guess).

Nowhere in Africa appeals to me.

In America, I always thought Costa Rica. I spent a very nice short holiday there 20 years ago, so it has stayed in

the memories, but obviously it would take much more than that to make that kind of decision. I had also thought

about Panama, although never been there. Unexpectedly for me, recently a friend told me he is doing business

in Peru and very happy with the way it goes and the lifestyle there. I would never even have thought about it,

but I have it now in one of those places to go one day and consider.

A lot of information to be digested in this topic, but very interesting.

[Jingthing]

Peru now has a retirement visa. Vietnam does not and is difficult to retire to. Cambodia also does not but is easy to retire to but still poor medical care options.

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[Jay Sata]

I've got a good friend from Canada who's trying to figure out where to retire. I met him in CR, where he bought property....and now regrets it. He doesn't like CR. He's traveling here soon to check out Thailand.

He's got friends who are trying to get him to move to Panama as they love it there. I'm still waiting to hear from him why they love it. Again, in our opinion, Panama was OK, just not the best option for us. Quite a few of the areas around downtown are VERY dodgy.

Thailand is also very dodgy. An ex pat bar owner has just been murdered in Udon Thani.

Farangs are seen by Thai lowlife as walking ATM's and the police rarely follow up.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Jay Sata

[liddelljohn]

i have visited phillipines many times for work , its aweful for crime, corruption , bad food ,and scam Thailand is in a different class much better,, Spain is pleasant but rule of law is variable and bureaucracy is poor and taxation due to being in EU is high .

Chile is lovely and safe but women are not, so good looking as other south americans , i worked in chile for a year and also venezuela and columbia but they are to dangerous