New Property Law For Foreigners Spreads Confusion

[llso]

Here is the English translation of the Thai National Anthem. Take a look at the second verse.

National Anthem:

The music of the Thai national anthem was composed in 1932 by Professor Phra Jenduriyang and its lyrics were written in 1939 by Colonel Luang Saranuprabhandi.

"Thailand is the unity of Thai blood and body.

The whole country belongs to the Thai people, maintaining thus far for the Thai.

All Thais intend to unite together.

Thais love peace but do not fear to fight.

They will never let anyone threaten their independence.

They will sacrifice every drop of their blood to contribute to the nation, will serve their country with pride and prestige full of victory.

CHAI YO. [Cheers].

LL

[cdnvic]

this is not about the individual Farang buying land and a house, it's about foreign conpanies/organisations buying the land from Thais and building on it to make profit, it seems that the capitalistic style is getting less popular with the locals, quite understandable if you ask me

I am an idividual farang who wanted to buy one house as a safety net in case of breakup and i got refused in land office.

So now After spending about 5 million total I'm screwed. Amazing and disgraceful that Chinese-Thais and cronies led us up the garden path like this to screw us hard and fast.

Taksin and his kind can buy a lot more now with his money and latter maybe lead tens of thousands more foreingers up the gaden path to screw them too. It's the information age now so their kind of behaviour is a lot more difficult to get away with unhurt. People will remember and talk.

Oh will you just get over it!

You've made a half dozen posts in this thread that are nearly the identical howl.

We Get It!

cv

[splitlid]

this is not about the individual Farang buying land and a house, it's about foreign conpanies/organisations buying the land from Thais and building on it to make profit, it seems that the capitalistic style is getting less popular with the locals, quite understandable if you ask me

I am an idividual farang who wanted to buy one house as a safety net in case of breakup and i got refused in land office.

So now After spending about 5 million total I'm screwed. Amazing and disgraceful that Chinese-Thais and cronies led us up the garden path like this to screw us hard and fast.

Taksin and his kind can buy a lot more now with his money and latter maybe lead tens of thousands more foreingers up the gaden path to screw them too. It's the information age now so their kind of behaviour is a lot more difficult to get away with unhurt. People will remember and talk.

take a few pills bquick...relax a little.

this problem will be resolved in a few months, your problem could be that the land department didnt know what they was doing at the time.try again at a later date.

no need to press the panic button yet everyone.

thais are just trying to protect thais thats all.

as gharknes states, its probably for large non thai companies buying up large plots of land for development.

individual house purchase may not be harmed.

[thaiflyer1]

Can anyone give me information on this..I am building house on wifes land, about 4 yrs now, not finished, she now has a Thai boy friend whom sleeps with her..I had been abandanded this spring with no money returned to Canada to get life back together, making money now..we are still legally maried in thaiand..wife lies so much I can not believe her. Can you help me out in what Ishould do with unfinished house, bull dose it down, or seak legal contract from her to lease property? You can please reply to my email address... [email protected].. I have had problem loging in on this site..thanks..Rotor Ron

Incase you get logged on again..............my advice would be..............forget about it and move on.

My 50 satang worth on this topic............

If the powers that be are choosing to enforce the property ownership law thats their choice i guess.

I cannot see it affecting those who already have their properties bought via the company route (other than a potential loss upon selling if the market slows down ) but rather an attempt to curb the foreign developers................this may however affect the ordinary potential foreign purchaser as well unfortunatley.

It may have the effect of pushing up lower end property prices (3-4m range) as those wishing to buy property here who would of happily bought via company route for 5m and upwards may now think if they are to put a property in the g/f, wifes name they will risk 3-5m but not 5m-20m baht.

Just for the record i have a 4m house...........via company route.

Edited May 31, 2006 by thaiflyer1

[splitlid]

Just for the record i have a 4m house.

i have a 3M house

made of post-it notes, sand paper, and brilo pads.

[Noel]

The question I have is this. What will this do to condo values?

In the more popular condos, 49 percent are owned by farangs, a certain percent are owned by Thais, and another certain percent are owned by farangs running phony companies. The farangs owning condos under companies will be in a big fix. They cannout sell to foreigners (building already 49 percent) so they can only sell to Thais, who will of course take advantage of their desperation and pay lower prices. What about the remaining farang owned condos, do they go up or down? They are in a building of radically declining values for the Thai and company owned condos, but their ownership structure is limited by number and much more desirable, so what happens? Up, same, or down for those farang owned condos? I haven't a clue because I have never heard of a market like that.

This latest development has no direct bearing on the condo market as far as I can see.

The problems and uncertainties outlined above applied before.

[thaiflyer1]

Just for the record i have a 4m house.

i have a 3M house

made of post-it notes, sand paper, and brilo pads.

You posh b@%@d .............you obviously went for the extras.

[FlyingDutchman]

I have since met a Thai woman in the UK. I have never been happier. I talked to her about buying property over in Thailand and she adviced me not to. Do i trust her, absolutely. Were of similar age and have a very understanding relationship.

LOL. Some never learn. I look forward to your post when she scams you.

Couldn't agree more ... elGrande.

... trust any woman ?

[taxexile]

bquick

I am an idividual farang who wanted to buy one house as a safety net in case of breakup and i got refused in land office.

So now After spending about 5 million total I'm screwed. Amazing and disgraceful that Chinese-Thais and cronies led us up the garden path like this to screw us hard and fast.

how come you lost 5 mill?

you dont pay until the transfer is approved at the land office , how come you paid before the transfer was done , and how come you paid for a house to be built on land before you had title to that land?

it seems as if you walked of your own free will , happily blindfolded , up your own garden path without the assistance of anyone else.

[FlyingDutchman]

You posh b@%@d .............you obviously went for the extras.

... ... Thaiflyer1 ... reading your posts, we would like to see you at tax-office at ten and court at noon ...

[cclub75]

I don't understand the panick.

It's just another report, that remind us the "spirit" of the law : yes a foreigner can't own land.

And it's just another official mean for the "officer" in charge, to make a few bucks more...

I mean what all this fuss about ?

At one point, you could say that is part of a broader situation : the gvt is broken. No more money. finish. So they simply start the "cash machine".

I guess, farang would have to pay. But eventually, will keep his beautifull and expensive house.

If it is appears that the company is having foreigner as shareholder or Director or if there is a reason to believe that it is nominating the Thais to hold shares for the foreigners, the officer is to investigate income of every Thai shareholders in the legal entity by looking into their work history of what kind of work they have done and what monthly salary they earned, all of these proved by evidence.

Here is another different translation of the ruling.

Referring to the guidelines of land ownership set up jointly by the Land Bureau and the Ministry of Interior for legal entity which has foreign ownership:

There upon, the Ministry of Interior was reported that there have been foreigners working with Thais or had commissioned the Thais to set up corporation to do property trading by initially buying land and house for the purpose of making it a home or office and subsequently apply to change the usage to for sale or sub-divide and sale to foreigners which constitutes a breach of law.

For the purpose of preempting any actions which may circumvent the laws or as to prevent the purchase of land which may benefit foreigners under the Land Act 74, second paragraph, the Ministry foresees that an additional practice should be applied in the event that a company limited, limited partnership or partnership which has already been set up and apply to own land for the objective of doing business in real estate (except public company limited or other legal entities which were permitted to own land under other applicable laws such section 27 of Board of Investment Act B.E 2527 or property fund, commercial bank, banks set up under special law, finance company, security firms, life and non-life insurance companies).

If it is appears that the company is having foreigner as shareholder or Director or if there is a reason to believe that it is nominating the Thais to hold shares for the foreigners, the officer is to investigate income of every Thai shareholders in the legal entity by looking into their work history of what kind of work they have done and what monthly salary they earned, all of these proved by evidence. If the purchased is funded by loan, then loan evidence must be provided. If after the investigation, it is led to believe that the application for land ownership is circumventing the law or any individual is purchasing land to the benefit of foreigners under the Land Act 74, paragraph 2, the officer is to investigate the case in detail and report to the Land Bureau to be waiting for further advise from the Minister.

www.lawyer.th.com

[Blue Unicorn]

The Day the property boom ended !!!

What negative silly person wrote that ?

I have had some laughs on this site but this really takes the biscuit. Ohhhhhh wooooooooooooo. It's like listening to a bunch of school kids.

How can any intelligent human being create so much unwarranted scare mongering and nonsense ?

Firstly 95% of all real estate in Thailand is purchased by Thai's ! NOT FOREIGNERS !

Secondly the land office problems have ocurred many times before and do on a regular basis. Mostly by people who don't have a good lawyer or their paperwork is not in correct order, or they are doing something wrong.

Thirdly, The Thai people love foreign money pouring into Thailand and do you honestly believe they are going to destory a portion of that opportunity. Please give them more respect than that. They may enforce certain aspects of it in certain ways,but they are intelliegent people and will come to some sensible resolvement of the issue. If they were not so bright, then the country would not be one all of us spend so much time talking about. It must have something we find desireable and I am hoping it is not something as purile, as just girls.

Fourthly, A great number of the property is bought by guys with Thai wives and contrary to some rather childish views, many many people find true happiness here and remain happily married all their lives. I am married to a Thai and have been for many many years. She supported me when I was broke and we have made a fantastic life together with a very large business enterprise both in Thailand, Indonesia, Singapore and the UK. I also have many friends in the same position.

I can only guess some of the people on here, don't work or are in anyway involved in a productive way in Thailand. If you were, you would know that creating hysterical unwarranted nonsense like this via an internet site, is actually doing more harm then the powers that be. My suggestion is to grow up a little and look at your life in respect to Thailand. And certainly stop talking about things that stem from second rate newspapers, created to make profit from scandal and trivial news clippings.

Why are foreigners so negative ? Be positive and see what happens. I have read forums in the past that proved to be completely wrong and of no basis for actuality at all. Who are they written by ? Unemployed bored loosers, school teachers, people who don't live in Thailand, People in a normal 9-5 jobs just so they can keep on the holiday of booze and girls, bored journalists with no acedemic qualification, people with no work permits selling cheap insurance schemes or tacky investment offers...........please...those of us who are productive and actually have a life in relation to Thailand other than just staying here to have sex with young girls (sad)......come on...wake up.

Stop being so down on Thailand, creating negative forces that effect the country and its people. We are all guests here and act like it. We have no right to tell them how to run their country, or create childish hysterical banter that reminds any intelligent human being of a bunch of school girls at a Robbie Williams concert.........ohhhh is Robbie dead !!!!!

I would wait and see what happens. The Bangkok Post is hardly the gospel according to Saint Luke and Thai Visa although informative, is hardly a vessel for acedemic and intelligent observation. No disrespect but its an open forum for anyone who feels like sounding off !!! And so much of it is complete and utter drivel.

Give us a break......

Edited May 31, 2006 by Blue Unicorn

[Thaiquila]

The question I have is this. What will this do to condo values?

In the more popular condos, 49 percent are owned by farangs, a certain percent are owned by Thais, and another certain percent are owned by farangs running phony companies. The farangs owning condos under companies will be in a big fix. They cannout sell to foreigners (building already 49 percent) so they can only sell to Thais, who will of course take advantage of their desperation and pay lower prices. What about the remaining farang owned condos, do they go up or down? They are in a building of radically declining values for the Thai and company owned condos, but their ownership structure is limited by number and much more desirable, so what happens? Up, same, or down for those farang owned condos? I haven't a clue because I have never heard of a market like that.

This latest development has no direct bearing on the condo market as far as I can see.

The problems and uncertainties outlined above applied before.

Really? Consider that there will now be a class of foreigners with company owned condos which is the exact same legal situation as company owned houses, isn't it? Will they be able to transfer their company to a new farang? Will Thai owned condos be able to be sold to farangs who want to start new companies? Sounds to me like it would be a very different situation now.

Edited May 31, 2006 by Thaiquila

[Chang_paarp]

The question I have is this. What will this do to condo values?

In the more popular condos, 49 percent are owned by farangs, a certain percent are owned by Thais, and another certain percent are owned by farangs running phony companies. The farangs owning condos under companies will be in a big fix. They cannout sell to foreigners (building already 49 percent) so they can only sell to Thais, who will of course take advantage of their desperation and pay lower prices. What about the remaining farang owned condos, do they go up or down? They are in a building of radically declining values for the Thai and company owned condos, but their ownership structure is limited by number and much more desirable, so what happens? Up, same, or down for those farang owned condos? I haven't a clue because I have never heard of a market like that.

Just sell the company allong with its assets, there is no need for a transfer of ownership of the land/condo. You are selling a company and assets not the land/condo, the control over the assests is transferred along with the ownership of the shares.

[lukamar]

Well guys I managed to marry a Thai woman that has vision and a financial head on her shoulders.

She had bought a house before I met her. We call that house our Thai house, and I have a house in my name in Canada that we call our house as well. Will I have my name on the Thai house register, probably never, but I have hope for the future.

This latest ruling probably will not affect many here in the long run. It's just the Thai's protecting themselves, for now, against what appears to be land speculators, not some farang, his Thai wife and their kids.

[Thaiquila]

Chang,

Given the current uncertainty I think there would be fewer buyers willing to buy that company and assets, and thus lower prices for that class of condos. And if this all comes to pass, it would mean Thais could not sell their condos to foreigners, as the buyers wouldn't or couldn't start new shell companies.

Edited May 31, 2006 by Thaiquila

[madmitch]

It's all a ploy to sell the Elite Card.

[simcity]

Absolutely, the news is bad; it is going to put many people on the hedge! Condos will suffer too.

The stock market is not performing, the economy lame, very soon, the situation will deteriorate.

I am like many, I do not care what I am putting into the country, well what I am putting is not mine anymore and I never think of making a profit in Thailand, I bought a place on a Thai name, some people are good, and some are not!

My main assets are not in Thailand, and will not get buried with it anyway!

If I need to walk away from here, my dog will be the one I miss the most!

I never went for the doggy company limited; it is going to back fire.

If I was alone I will have been renting - go to the condo way – or perhaps the 30 years lease!

Wanting to be land owner in Thailand are not wise, will prefer to put my place with a thirty year lease and donation to charity at the end !

[LoveDaBlues]

Nevermind who owns Thailand, before anyone here sets about changing their house ownership from Company route to Lease Route, or even giving it to the Mrs, find out who actually owns your house

If you are 49% shareholder in the company that owns your house (albeit a 95% vote owner) 51% of the collatoral in the company (51% of your house) is owned by the 7 Thais you got to be your silent share holders.

Now, you can vote to sell the house, but the collatoral belongs to the share holders, they are quite within their rights to take 51% of the money released in the sale.

This is the point when you realize why the guys who did all that legal work for you were so very helpful at finding silent share holders for you.

Starting with a belief, hope or need and trying to think up justifications why someone who holds all the cards should act to enable you to meet your belief, hope or need is not addressing the problem, it is merely convincing yourself that things are the way you would like them to be.

Two VERY GOOD posts by GH; hats off

Now I'll add my .02 cents. I'm REALLY TIRED of the posters who talk about 'trust' in their Thai wives with regards to having the property in the wifey's name. I've been with the Thai wife for a little less than a year now. I trust her. However, sometimes people 'grow apart' after a number of years; no matter how much 'in love' they are now. When this happens in the United States in the resulting divorce proceedings at least the man normally gets a fair percentage of the marital assets and each spouse goes on his/her merry way. BUT....same scenerio in Thailand and the wifey gets EVERYTHING.

For every poster here who has been happily married for 5-30 years to their 'trusting' wife there are probably 50-100 farang who also 'trusted' their Thai wife only to be screwed because (1) the wife was totally in it for the money and scammed the hubby from the start or (2) the couple simply 'grew apart' and the farang got the short end of things because of the law. For these reasons I WILL NEVER buy property in the wife's name......even though yes I love and trust her.

No one knows what the future holds with regards to either partner's feelings for the other. This is why in the United States (and many countries) there are laws to protect both parties should the marriage fall apart.

BTW; don't tell me about the 30 year lease from the wife that puts YOU in control.....LOL.....if the relationship is over and the wife decides to stay in the home for whatever reason you will NEVER get her out.......don't kid yourself. You'll be stuck in a VERY UNPLEASANT situation.

LDB

ps - happily renting for 6,000 baht a month

Edited May 31, 2006 by LoveDaBlues

[Thaising]

one would have to be pretty resourceless to trust their 'wife' to be the owner of the houses, especially if we're talking an expensive house... 'wives' come and go, ESPECIALLY in Thailand.... just my .02

Whilst I guess I know what your saying, I have been married to my Thai wife for 30 years, we bought some land 3 years ago and built a property on it. I know our kids will inherit it when we're gone. It's the old story use your common sense and know who to trust but please don't tar all Thai wives with the same brush.

I'm in the same boat as you, I will never cry foul, cause my children’s will inherit my property once my wife or me are gone.

[Neeranam]

QUOTE(SteveH @ 2006-05-30 23:24:28) *

QUOTE(mobiryder @ 2006-05-30 20:29:15) *

one would have to be pretty resourceless to trust their 'wife' to be the owner of the houses, especially if we're talking an expensive house... 'wives' come and go, ESPECIALLY in Thailand.... just my .02

Whilst I guess I know what your saying, I have been married to my Thai wife for 30 years, we bought some land 3 years ago and built a property on it. I know our kids will inherit it when we're gone. It's the old story use your common sense and know who to trust but please don't tar all Thai wives with the same brush.

I'm in the same boat as you, I will never cry foul, cause my children’s will inherit my property once my wife or me are gone.

You're a wise man - I advise to wait at least 10 years after marriage or until you have kids that can inherit.

Far too many farang marry thai women and buy/build a house too quickly. Many Thai women can't handle having the power and the relationship turns bad and guess who keeps the house. This is by far the major cause of failed marriages of farang in Thailand.

Once the house is bought it's incredible to watch the change in attitude of the Thai wife.

Rent, rent rent, rent - don't give in to the request of "I want a house/security", you wooses.

"It's the Thai way", "I don't want to fall out with the family", ""they will think I'm stingy". Be a man and learn to say NO.

Many of the old guys I know say it's in case they drop dead tomorrow - security for the woman they've known 1 or 2 years. If you're that concerned for the woman take out life insurance.

Always be the boss in a relationship with a Thai woman.

I rent for 3000 a month, why would I want all the hassle of my wife owning.

When I came to Thailand 13 years ago, the first advice I got was "don't invest in Thailand".

[cutter007]

I think most of the people have nothing to worry about, as some people have said this is really only concerning the foreigners forming shell companies for selling real estate. The Land Department doesn't have time to research single home, transactions that occured 5 years ago.

This is basically the wealthly elite saying we have had enough of foreign real estate developers and there excellient salesmenship and building standards. They need to be done with, and in will step the Thai (and yes probably Chinese-Thai developers) to copy the business models of all the foreigners in Phuket, Pattaya, Samui and the rest.

They don't mind that foreigners are being overcharged for housing, but they are mighty pissed that they are not the ones doing the overcharging.

I think this will definitly help the condo market, its supply and demand.

I look at Florida, in the US now.

There were condos in a development my parents live selling for 250K, now they are selling for 1mil, just 1 year later.

Basically they just kept raising the price, and they just kept selling them, and they are still building more, and still raising the price to this very day.

Now there will be less developments in the next couple of years, and so the condo market will go up.

Edited May 31, 2006 by cutter007

[bquick]

The land office people told mrs today that there is a real problem in thailand that foreigners have many houses and the thai people cannot afford to buy them houses. The foreigners own too much so they have to stop them and the thai people have to work together to keep the foreigners money but not let the land and house belong to them.

[Pakboong]

Well this topic has got people interested. 480 people currently reading this

Personally, i have only bought in Thailand in the wife's name. And it wouldn't hurt me one jot if i was to lose it but it does get my back up that she can freely buy whatever she wants in the UK....in her name. So if the worst came to it, she could keep it.

I think countries that have laws like this, just be prejudiced against in other countries. Seems fair to me. If foreigners can't buy in your country, your people can't buy in other countries.

Just my 2 "frustrated" satang

Frustrating as it may be, it's a matter of numbers...

how many farrangs are able to visit Thailand vs how many Thais are able to visit farrangland.

Thai's could just as easily argue "if you can come to my country, then I should be able to come to yours"... how easy would have it been for your wife to get into your country (let alone afford property) were it not for her marriage to you?

one million Thais live in Los Angeles!

[Thaiquila]

The land office people told mrs today that there is a real problem in thailand that foreigners have many houses and the thai people cannot afford to buy them houses. The foreigners own too much so they have to stop them and the thai people have to work together to keep the foreigners money but not let the land and house belong to them.

This is kind of universal, blame everything bad on the immigrants.

[Scott]

Over the years, I've seen some interesting situations with regard to property ownership/leasing/etc. A good friend and his Mrs. built a nice home on her land, near her family home. Both were very happy. She was tragically killed in a car accident. It wasn't long before he was entirely without a home. Something to think about.

Loopholes can always be closed and laws re-written or re-interpreted.

Beware and Take Care.

[pattayamick]

I can’t see the problem really.

Thailand has always had its own way of coming up with new regulations, that soon will be by-passed or forgotten

In the meantime, form a wholly Thai owned company with pre-signed letters of resignation. Buy your land, condo or whatever. Next day install yourself as director and transfer the 49% shares to your name.

[Phil Conners]

a few years ago i worked in guernsey they had 2 markets for ownerership, one for locals , one for non islanders. the difference in cost was vast as they wanted local people to be able to live there,which i think is a good thing because once you lose that its all gone. maybe they have it right in thailand

[rant]

I think that old hat concept of "nationalism" ought to be dead and gone in the twenty first century. It is not the stone age anymore. The world HAS BEEN globalized whether you like it or not. You can get from any place on earth to another within 24 hours. The notion that because you were born a particular place on this planet gives you more rights than someone else is rediculouis and outdated.

America was there last century but seem to have backstepped, particularly due to a certain monkey being elected into government by lawyers rather than voters. Europe is there already. Hopefully Asia will also see the light some day.

[/rant]

Edited May 31, 2006 by madsere

[BangnaBound]

Over the years, I've seen some interesting situations with regard to property ownership/leasing/etc. A good friend and his Mrs. built a nice home on her land, near her family home. Both were very happy. She was tragically killed in a car accident. It wasn't long before he was entirely without a home. Something to think about.

Loopholes can always be closed and laws re-written or re-interpreted.

Beware and Take Care.

This confirms a scenario I had considered when looking are real estate investment.

When reading posts regarding trusting wives, this is exactly the situation I worry about. I totally trust my wife, but the reality is we are not immortal. My in-laws are really great people, but would I trust that they have my best interest at heart when large sums of money are become an issue? I trust that they will what they think is best for “the family”. And I doubt I’ll be included in that definition of family.

Unless you have kids, this is definitely something to be aware of.

[N47HAN]

one would have to be pretty resourceless to trust their 'wife' to be the owner of the houses, especially if we're talking an expensive house... 'wives' come and go, ESPECIALLY in Thailand.... just my .02

Makes me smile

We all rent our women in one form or another.. this we except as normal but to rent bricks and mortar ...Ohh cant do that... im a farang and wanna own my home!?

Guess it may be just me but...... rent rent rent.. if u want an investment choose something else!