sugar cane yields.......

[thoongfoned]

we rent a small amount of land out that has sugar growing on it, a couple of different plots. the better land this year produced just over 10 ton a rai - sort of looked after ie flooding afew times but no weeding. the other land produced a little over 4 ton a rai - no flooding/ weeding. both plots were tractor planted/ vits applied. vits only applied when planting.

after you take out all the cost - planting, vits, cutting and transport you do not have that much left.

in our area (udon thani) I know of a family that has loads of land and all the machines ect to farm on large scale, been in the sugar game for along while and he still stays that sugar can be hit and miss. ie water/rain not enough, said that the 10 ton a rai was good. better then rice profits me thinks but still not that great when you cannot or will not do all the harvesting yourself.

all you sugar cane farmers out there, what did you manage this year per rai? happy with it or gona try and improve? or just aint gonna do again?

next year gonna get some land cleared and plant some sugar - got land that is not being used and has access to water so want to see what we can get back from it, not a lot of land about 10 rai at first just to see how we can do. (get the children out weeding! time to earn their pocket money)

[soidog2]

10 t per rai is fair to good, first year you should harvest 12/13 t per rai.

The variables are endless, if planted close, the right type for your area, enough fertilizer and moisture, should not be a problem.

[Canada]

For me, 10 ton per rai is not enough. Having said that, that's all we got off one plot this year. So we did a lot of work on it after harvest. Cane likes water. I you cannot water it through the dry times yur kind of "hooped" so to speak.

You can control the variables but you are talking a different type of farming now and a different type of investment. If you know cane and can spend the money to control the variables and know what they are, you can earn some money. Best case scenario is to be able to cut and transport it yourself to the sugar mill. Then you get the incentives, bonuses, and improvement subsidies. If you cannot do this you are at the mercy of the local broker. Depending on how much land you are thinking, you can get screwed too, waiting for a tractor to come and do your work and do it well. Tough game if you don't have enough money, equipment, etc.

I vacillate between selling it, all to selling some of it, and staying in it and trying to do better and get more land. So...it's not been entirely satisfying. We have 100 rai planted. We are currently changing our irrigation method to drip irrigation on all 4 of our plots. Not terribly cheap. It has it's benefits though. Enough to warrant doing it. We are going to fertilise through the drip system too once we figure it out how to do it. Weeds are a problem. Expensive to spray and costly to not. Need to make sure it's done properly with the right chemicals at the right time. 10 rai of weeding is not a job to be done by hand.

You say you have access to water. Got a pump and motor? Someone to operate it? A weed spraying crew locally available to hire? ....If you don't do it right, you could be looking at a net loss. I've experienced it and seen it happen to others in our area. Get some good advice from locals in your area already doing it. Last thing...it's a longer term thing; not a short one. It'll take a cycle(3-4 years) to really see what actually happened with your initial investment in clearing and planting and then your re-investment each year in water, fert, and weed control. You'd be looking at a learning curve of your first cycle (3-4 years) and then your second cycle would be done actually knowing what you are doing.

Think long and hard before doing this.

[tingtong]

We tried an about 10 rai plot, Issaan, rain fed land.

Cutting is right now.

Yield is about 6-7 t /rai...yes, that isnt enough, that that is all we got. Not enough water, but nor would be enough for rice.

Cos it is a bit far from us, FIL's village, wife inquired about selling the sugar as a plot...offer was 3000 baht/rai...greedy bastards?!

even at 7 ton/rai...that is 7000 baht...decuct about 250/rai for cut and transport per ton, leaves you just near 5000....not covering the costs.

OK, second year, less costs, so, a chance to break even. Worth it? Most definately not.

But takes time to explain my wife that, and a lot longer to family to sink in....thai ppl only seem to think in the terms of gross sale...like costs arent existent...unfortunately they are, and they are there, and they are quite high with sugar.

This year cutters ask more than last year, but buying price is down...of course the rains are a variable the least can be predicted.

IF i would have the money, and would like to invest in sugar, i would seriously look into buying a sugar cutter mashine though...with all the new fields being planted, and workers demanding more, and surely even more next year, as population here didnt increase, only the rai of the fields planted with sugar, i predict a very high demand for those mashines soon.

sad for the rice harvesters, demand is way down there.

[Canada]

If the cane was consistent, you'd do better this year if you could water, fert, and spray. If you only rely on rain, like you said and cannot water or don't have a well, it's in god's hands again this year. Personally I don't trust him to produce.

[kickstart]

We tried an about 10 rai plot, Issaan, rain fed land.

Cutting is right now.

Yield is about 6-7 t /rai...yes, that isnt enough, that that is all we got. Not enough water, but nor would be enough for rice.

Cos it is a bit far from us, FIL's village, wife inquired about selling the sugar as a plot...offer was 3000 baht/rai...greedy bastards?!

even at 7 ton/rai...that is 7000 baht...decuct about 250/rai for cut and transport per ton, leaves you just near 5000....not covering the costs.

OK, second year, less costs, so, a chance to break even. Worth it? Most definately not.

But takes time to explain my wife that, and a lot longer to family to sink in....thai ppl only seem to think in the terms of gross sale...like costs arent existent...unfortunately they are, and they are there, and they are quite high with sugar.

This year cutters ask more than last year, but buying price is down...of course the rains are a variable the least can be predicted.

IF i would have the money, and would like to invest in sugar, i would seriously look into buying a sugar cutter mashine though...with all the new fields being planted, and workers demanding more, and surely even more next year, as population here didnt increase, only the rai of the fields planted with sugar, i predict a very high demand for those mashines soon.

sad for the rice harvesters, demand is way down there.

You predicted right here in Lopburi machine cutting has increased a lot over the past 2 years, as you said lack of cutting labour .

But a second hand machine imported from Oz or Brazil will be upwards from 2.5 million bart ,the one's I see, also have a large fuel cart behind them all the time,.

Some say you get less sugar % , from machine cutting ,and less weight on truck hauling the cain ,Canada said 250 bart cut and hauling ,round here it is 350 bart with a machine, how famers make any money I do not know especial this year being so dry

A lot say with all that weight on the field ,machine ,truck.s it takes a year off the life of the caine .

But it looks if that is the way thing are going .

[rice555]

Hello All, magazine add.

rice555

[Canada]

Good for larger plots. Absolutely useless for your average joe farmer with 5-10 rai of cane and a bunch of stumps.

[Canada]

Biggest drawback I can see with these cutters (love to have one) is that it'd take a while for everyone in our area to get up to speed. Fields would need to be clear of stumps, fields would need to be machine planted. Many people in our area are still planting by hand. They will get with it, but there are some people unwilling to change.

Thai workers are a bunch of babies unwilling to care for themselves and deserving of the shit wages that they receive. They will complain and bitch their way to having no work due to being replaced by machines, or Laotian and Burmese workers. Sad, but this is what will happen.

[sheepshank]

I'll start this post with a disclaimer - I am not, nor ever have been, a farmer - I am more of a bean "counter" than bean "grower". But I support my wife's sugar cane enterprise because I see it as being less risky, and potentially far more profitable in the long term, than leaving the funds to stagnate in an offshore deposit account.

We've got 110 rai of cane at various stages of the 3-4 year cycle on land which has been either purchased, or rented, in Chaiyaphum. The most recently planted plot of 39 rai has yielded a net cash return to me of 390K baht versus a total 1st year input cost of 345K baht.

I don't know the weight of the crop because it is still in the ground but it must be considerably more than 10 tons per rai. I am however, 100% certain about the cash yield because the quota holder has already paid it into my bank account. Now, where has that colour brochure for the Kubota B2440 got to? Happy Days!

[Canada]

So, he's buying your cane in the field at 10,000 per rai. Means he's confident that it is more than 12.5 tons per rai.

Chaiyaphum....irrigation canals?

[heybuz]

thai government has hired Australian farmers to teach thais how to grow cane successfully,the climate is the same as nth queensland where most of the cane is grown here. as for buying the cane before harvest its a bit of a risk if you cop a lot of rain before harvest it lowers the ccs or sugar content.

[slk350]

we have 15 rai of Sugarcane this seasen. 7 Rai first , 8 Rai Second On the First one we had 18 T per Rai cut Fresh. Sold to a Guy for 1050,- Bath per T, the People Cutting take 22 % from the shop Price.

The second about 12 T per Rai, sold fore the same Price. 2 Rai we used ,to Plant in Oktober 2013,is looking good.

We have a Tractor with all Attatchments, but we do not use weed killer. People take the Gras out charge 250.- Per Day this happens 3 times in a seasen.

Isan !! No Irrigation

now we have Manjok on about 5 Rai. Thai and Black Rice we only plant for us.

quite easy !!!!!!

[tingtong]

thai government has hired Australian farmers to teach thais how to grow cane successfully,the climate is the same as nth queensland where most of the cane is grown here. as for buying the cane before harvest its a bit of a risk if you cop a lot of rain before harvest it lowers the ccs or sugar content.

this one only matters of you directly sell to the factory.

the sugar buyers/middlemen dont pay incentives for sugar content, you only get paid for the weight. most small scale growers are dealing with middlemen buyer vs. direct factory quota.

[Mudcrab]

thai government has hired Australian farmers to teach thais how to grow cane successfully,the climate is the same as nth queensland where most of the cane is grown here. as for buying the cane before harvest its a bit of a risk if you cop a lot of rain before harvest it lowers the ccs or sugar content.

this one only matters of you directly sell to the factory.

the sugar buyers/middlemen dont pay incentives for sugar content, you only get paid for the weight. most small scale growers are dealing with middlemen buyer vs. direct factory quota.

The factory will buy direct and pay for tonnes X CCS? They will accept billet cane (machine harvested) as opposed to full stick? I'm really interested to know this.

[heybuz]

ok i'm only aquatinted with cane in oz as my son in laws father is a cane farmer here,thats how i found out about the oz farmers going to thailand,as all cane here is machine harvested and the farmers are paid on the sugar content not the weight of cane.they deal directly with the mill usually[ csr [colonial sugar refineries. cane harvesters cut the cane into smaller pieces and it is easier for the mill to handle,which is put into bins straight from the harvester and then by cane train to the mill.depending on the sugar content the farmers then receive a payment,higher the content higher the pay.

Edited March 6, 2014 by heybuz

[sheepshank]

Hi Canada - "Chaiyaphum....irrigation canals?" Yer gotta be 'aving a larf ain't ya. Nah, nuffink so Ritzy as klongs where we are. There is no surface water to speak of for miles around, it's as dry as a bone most of the year. If it doesn't fall out of the sky then we have to pump it out of the ground. OK, it adds to the input costs but it's necessary if we want to keep the yield up and make the crop attractive to a middle-man.

slk350 - I am very interested in what you say about keeping grass and weeds under control by employing people to do the weeding and without resorting to chemicals. My annual herbicide and spraying labour bill is astronomical. And, as we all should know, the stuff is extremely harmful to humans too. One of our two "permies" spent 2 months in hospital late last year suffering from blood poisoning caused by incorrect handling of herbicide whilst he was working for my FIL. He's OK now but he was in danger of losing both his feet at one stage.

My FIL himself (a fit man in his mid 60's) was sadly taken from us suddenly only a month ago after he undertook the weed control duties that he had previously delegated to the hospitalized worker: cause of death - blood poisoning. It's nasty stuff, so be careful out there. And it sounds to me as though weeding and grass control by hand may be a good bet if the labour is available. I'd far rather put more money into the local economy than hand it over to the shareholders of Bayer or Monsanto.

[Nokawou]

I have been sugar cane farming in Sout Afrika Komatipoort region under irrigation and average is 100 t/ha breakeven is about 80 t/ha very good yield is 130 t/ha do not know how large a rai is. We burn the cane and it get harvested by contractor cutting by hand and loaded with machines and we have contracts with the mill. Hope this helps to compare yields.

[sheepshank]

Hi Nokawou,

FYI 1 rai is 1,600 sq mtr, so there are 6.25 rai to the ha. Hope that helps you to compare what an advanced country using irrigation is achieving compared with us in Isaan. I'm quite chuffed that my >12.5 per rai ie >78 t/ha, without irrigation, compares favourably with your break even point of 80 t/ha.

[Canada]

Hi Canada - "Chaiyaphum....irrigation canals?" Yer gotta be 'aving a larf ain't ya. Nah, nuffink so Ritzy as klongs where we are. There is no surface water to speak of for miles around, it's as dry as a bone most of the year. If it doesn't fall out of the sky then we have to pump it out of the ground. OK, it adds to the input costs but it's necessary if we want to keep the yield up and make the crop attractive to a middle-man.

slk350 - I am very interested in what you say about keeping grass and weeds under control by employing people to do the weeding and without resorting to chemicals. My annual herbicide and spraying labour bill is astronomical. And, as we all should know, the stuff is extremely harmful to humans too. One of our two "permies" spent 2 months in hospital late last year suffering from blood poisoning caused by incorrect handling of herbicide whilst he was working for my FIL. He's OK now but he was in danger of losing both his feet at one stage.

My FIL himself (a fit man in his mid 60's) was sadly taken from us suddenly only a month ago after he undertook the weed control duties that he had previously delegated to the hospitalized worker: cause of death - blood poisoning. It's nasty stuff, so be careful out there. And it sounds to me as though weeding and grass control by hand may be a good bet if the labour is available. I'd far rather put more money into the local economy than hand it over to the shareholders of Bayer or Monsanto.

Spraying is nasty. Someone's got to do it, and you need to budget for it. The last two years it's cost us about 750 baht per rai. We think we can get that down by doing a better job of it. By a better job I mean a lot of things: spraying pre-emergence rather than post, spraying post if necessary, spraying with a tractor while plants are still small vs. spraying in chest high cane, spraying the right chemicals for the right weeds, spraying in the right atmospheric conditions. There are many factors to consider in spraying. You need to plant with spraying in mind or plant with tilling in mind if you can afford to plant far enough apart because you have a lot of water.

At 100 rai, I know that I am not going to get mine done by hand. Not a chance.

[Canada]

Hi Nokawou,

FYI 1 rai is 1,600 sq mtr, so there are 6.25 rai to the ha. Hope that helps you to compare what an advanced country using irrigation is achieving compared with us in Isaan. I'm quite chuffed that my >12.5 per rai ie >78 t/ha, without irrigation, compares favourably with your break even point of 80 t/ha.

What's "chuffed"?

So, you are irrigating. Just to keep it alive through the drought, or as a regular program? How do you do it? Thai way? One guy on the end of a pipe in the middle of a field connected to a kubota ?

[Mudcrab]

I have been sugar cane farming in Sout Afrika Komatipoort region under irrigation and average is 100 t/ha breakeven is about 80 t/ha very good yield is 130 t/ha do not know how large a rai is. We burn the cane and it get harvested by contractor cutting by hand and loaded with machines and we have contracts with the mill. Hope this helps to compare yields.

6.25 rai to the hectare. So 100 t/Ha is 16 tonnes per rai.

[sheepshank]

Hi Canada,

"Chuffed" or "chuffed to bits" is slang for "to be very pleased, proud, or happy with yourself" - courtesy of the www.urbandictionary.

Back to sugar cane yields. Watering is not done as a regular programme and is only undertaken 5 to 6 weeks after the last heavy rainfall. Yes, we have bore holes, large and small, strategically placed on our plots; and yes it is done Thai way as you describe above. It's a bit harry tait but it works!

[Mudcrab]

Hi Canada - "Chaiyaphum....irrigation canals?" Yer gotta be 'aving a larf ain't ya. Nah, nuffink so Ritzy as klongs where we are. There is no surface water to speak of for miles around, it's as dry as a bone most of the year. If it doesn't fall out of the sky then we have to pump it out of the ground. OK, it adds to the input costs but it's necessary if we want to keep the yield up and make the crop attractive to a middle-man.

slk350 - I am very interested in what you say about keeping grass and weeds under control by employing people to do the weeding and without resorting to chemicals. My annual herbicide and spraying labour bill is astronomical. And, as we all should know, the stuff is extremely harmful to humans too. One of our two "permies" spent 2 months in hospital late last year suffering from blood poisoning caused by incorrect handling of herbicide whilst he was working for my FIL. He's OK now but he was in danger of losing both his feet at one stage.

My FIL himself (a fit man in his mid 60's) was sadly taken from us suddenly only a month ago after he undertook the weed control duties that he had previously delegated to the hospitalized worker: cause of death - blood poisoning. It's nasty stuff, so be careful out there. And it sounds to me as though weeding and grass control by hand may be a good bet if the labour is available. I'd far rather put more money into the local economy than hand it over to the shareholders of Bayer or Monsanto.

Spraying is nasty. Someone's got to do it, and you need to budget for it. The last two years it's cost us about 750 baht per rai. We think we can get that down by doing a better job of it. By a better job I mean a lot of things: spraying pre-emergence rather than post, spraying post if necessary, spraying with a tractor while plants are still small vs. spraying in chest high cane, spraying the right chemicals for the right weeds, spraying in the right atmospheric conditions. There are many factors to consider in spraying. You need to plant with spraying in mind or plant with tilling in mind if you can afford to plant far enough apart because you have a lot of water.

At 100 rai, I know that I am not going to get mine done by hand. Not a chance.

The burning of cane is pretty well finished in Oz except for one area where irrigation is the norm. They cut cane green and leave a trash blanket to help with weed control. Fertiliser for the following crop is applied using an implement that "chucks" the fertiliser horizontally so that it gets under the trash blanket rather than applying it in the normal manner which would disturb the trash blanket. I have been told this by people who do it and they seem to think it works ok, retains moisture better and lowers costs. I don't know if all the farmers do it of course.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Mudcrab

[slk350]

Hi Canada - "Chaiyaphum....irrigation canals?" Yer gotta be 'aving a larf ain't ya. Nah, nuffink so Ritzy as klongs where we are. There is no surface water to speak of for miles around, it's as dry as a bone most of the year. If it doesn't fall out of the sky then we have to pump it out of the ground. OK, it adds to the input costs but it's necessary if we want to keep the yield up and make the crop attractive to a middle-man.

slk350 - I am very interested in what you say about keeping grass and weeds under control by employing people to do the weeding and without resorting to chemicals. My annual herbicide and spraying labour bill is astronomical. And, as we all should know, the stuff is extremely harmful to humans too. One of our two "permies" spent 2 months in hospital late last year suffering from blood poisoning caused by incorrect handling of herbicide whilst he was working for my FIL. He's OK now but he was in danger of losing both his feet at one stage.

My FIL himself (a fit man in his mid 60's) was sadly taken from us suddenly only a month ago after he undertook the weed control duties that he had previously delegated to the hospitalized worker: cause of death - blood poisoning. It's nasty stuff, so be careful out there. And it sounds to me as though weeding and grass control by hand may be a good bet if the labour is available. I'd far rather put more money into the local economy than hand it over to the shareholders of Bayer or Monsanto.

Hi Sheepshank,

i Pay about 1500,- Bath ( 6 People , one Day ) fore 5 Rai . this i do 3 times a Seasen.

The cane i planted in Oktober is now one meter high. The canals are set at 90 cm. I also use two times a Buffalo after 2 months and 9 months ( 160,- Bath per Rai ) Fertilizer 3 times, one sak per Rai. We used to have Quota,not anymore i rather sell to somebuddy to put in his quota. I wonder if the Gov. pay this time.

fell free to ask. I am leaving tommorow for Germany is to hot here. but i check Tv. and mail all the time.

by

[sheepshank]

Hi slk350,

Thnx for the reply. I don't make the operational decisions regarding our cane cultivation because I know nothing. I just pay all the bills promptly, accept all the receipts graciously and hope that the receipts are bigger than the bills. I like the idea of doing at least some of the weed control by hand and I will impress upon SWMBO (that is - She Who Must Be Obeyed) of the need to weed a test area by hand next growing season for a comparison.

We have a few rai of cane planted outside the back door of our home in Chaiyaphum and it would be an ideal area to try out weeding-without-chemicals in order to determine the total amount of manpower required per rai.

After recent experience outlined in my post above I really don't want to use any more chemical herbicides than are absolutely necessary for weed and grass control.

Bon Voyage and have a stein of proper beer for me when you get there. Cheers.

[Canada]

Hi Canada - "Chaiyaphum....irrigation canals?" Yer gotta be 'aving a larf ain't ya. Nah, nuffink so Ritzy as klongs where we are. There is no surface water to speak of for miles around, it's as dry as a bone most of the year. If it doesn't fall out of the sky then we have to pump it out of the ground. OK, it adds to the input costs but it's necessary if we want to keep the yield up and make the crop attractive to a middle-man.

slk350 - I am very interested in what you say about keeping grass and weeds under control by employing people to do the weeding and without resorting to chemicals. My annual herbicide and spraying labour bill is astronomical. And, as we all should know, the stuff is extremely harmful to humans too. One of our two "permies" spent 2 months in hospital late last year suffering from blood poisoning caused by incorrect handling of herbicide whilst he was working for my FIL. He's OK now but he was in danger of losing both his feet at one stage.

My FIL himself (a fit man in his mid 60's) was sadly taken from us suddenly only a month ago after he undertook the weed control duties that he had previously delegated to the hospitalized worker: cause of death - blood poisoning. It's nasty stuff, so be careful out there. And it sounds to me as though weeding and grass control by hand may be a good bet if the labour is available. I'd far rather put more money into the local economy than hand it over to the shareholders of Bayer or Monsanto.

Hi Sheepshank,

i Pay about 1500,- Bath ( 6 People , one Day ) fore 5 Rai . this i do 3 times a Seasen.

The cane i planted in Oktober is now one meter high. The canals are set at 90 cm. I also use two times a Buffalo after 2 months and 9 months ( 160,- Bath per Rai ) Fertilizer 3 times, one sak per Rai. We used to have Quota,not anymore i rather sell to somebuddy to put in his quota. I wonder if the Gov. pay this time.

fell free to ask. I am leaving tommorow for Germany is to hot here. but i check Tv. and mail all the time.

by

Curious about the buffalo 2 times... what are you using it for?

[Canada]

Hi Canada - "Chaiyaphum....irrigation canals?" Yer gotta be 'aving a larf ain't ya. Nah, nuffink so Ritzy as klongs where we are. There is no surface water to speak of for miles around, it's as dry as a bone most of the year. If it doesn't fall out of the sky then we have to pump it out of the ground. OK, it adds to the input costs but it's necessary if we want to keep the yield up and make the crop attractive to a middle-man.

slk350 - I am very interested in what you say about keeping grass and weeds under control by employing people to do the weeding and without resorting to chemicals. My annual herbicide and spraying labour bill is astronomical. And, as we all should know, the stuff is extremely harmful to humans too. One of our two "permies" spent 2 months in hospital late last year suffering from blood poisoning caused by incorrect handling of herbicide whilst he was working for my FIL. He's OK now but he was in danger of losing both his feet at one stage.

My FIL himself (a fit man in his mid 60's) was sadly taken from us suddenly only a month ago after he undertook the weed control duties that he had previously delegated to the hospitalized worker: cause of death - blood poisoning. It's nasty stuff, so be careful out there. And it sounds to me as though weeding and grass control by hand may be a good bet if the labour is available. I'd far rather put more money into the local economy than hand it over to the shareholders of Bayer or Monsanto.

Spraying is nasty. Someone's got to do it, and you need to budget for it. The last two years it's cost us about 750 baht per rai. We think we can get that down by doing a better job of it. By a better job I mean a lot of things: spraying pre-emergence rather than post, spraying post if necessary, spraying with a tractor while plants are still small vs. spraying in chest high cane, spraying the right chemicals for the right weeds, spraying in the right atmospheric conditions. There are many factors to consider in spraying. You need to plant with spraying in mind or plant with tilling in mind if you can afford to plant far enough apart because you have a lot of water.

At 100 rai, I know that I am not going to get mine done by hand. Not a chance.

The burning of cane is pretty well finished in Oz except for one area where irrigation is the norm. They cut cane green and leave a trash blanket to help with weed control. Fertiliser for the following crop is applied using an implement that "chucks" the fertiliser horizontally so that it gets under the trash blanket rather than applying it in the normal manner which would disturb the trash blanket. I have been told this by people who do it and they seem to think it works ok, retains moisture better and lowers costs. I don't know if all the farmers do it of course.

We did one field like this this year. The new cane is coming up a little slower at first, but it is keeping the weeds down. Problem with it is that you run the risk of losing your crop to fire. More people in our area cut fresh this year than last year. There is one buyer who only cuts fresh, but he's not got a big quota. Cutters prefer burned cane. They can earn more money at it. Depends on you you do it too. I've seen some people tie in 10 stalk bundles, others require it just stacked in 100 stalk piles and then clear the leaves away so loader can pick it easily. Cutters don't mind this last method too much.

[Mudcrab]

Hi Canada - "Chaiyaphum....irrigation canals?" Yer gotta be 'aving a larf ain't ya. Nah, nuffink so Ritzy as klongs where we are. There is no surface water to speak of for miles around, it's as dry as a bone most of the year. If it doesn't fall out of the sky then we have to pump it out of the ground. OK, it adds to the input costs but it's necessary if we want to keep the yield up and make the crop attractive to a middle-man.

slk350 - I am very interested in what you say about keeping grass and weeds under control by employing people to do the weeding and without resorting to chemicals. My annual herbicide and spraying labour bill is astronomical. And, as we all should know, the stuff is extremely harmful to humans too. One of our two "permies" spent 2 months in hospital late last year suffering from blood poisoning caused by incorrect handling of herbicide whilst he was working for my FIL. He's OK now but he was in danger of losing both his feet at one stage.

My FIL himself (a fit man in his mid 60's) was sadly taken from us suddenly only a month ago after he undertook the weed control duties that he had previously delegated to the hospitalized worker: cause of death - blood poisoning. It's nasty stuff, so be careful out there. And it sounds to me as though weeding and grass control by hand may be a good bet if the labour is available. I'd far rather put more money into the local economy than hand it over to the shareholders of Bayer or Monsanto.

Spraying is nasty. Someone's got to do it, and you need to budget for it. The last two years it's cost us about 750 baht per rai. We think we can get that down by doing a better job of it. By a better job I mean a lot of things: spraying pre-emergence rather than post, spraying post if necessary, spraying with a tractor while plants are still small vs. spraying in chest high cane, spraying the right chemicals for the right weeds, spraying in the right atmospheric conditions. There are many factors to consider in spraying. You need to plant with spraying in mind or plant with tilling in mind if you can afford to plant far enough apart because you have a lot of water.

At 100 rai, I know that I am not going to get mine done by hand. Not a chance.

The burning of cane is pretty well finished in Oz except for one area where irrigation is the norm. They cut cane green and leave a trash blanket to help with weed control. Fertiliser for the following crop is applied using an implement that "chucks" the fertiliser horizontally so that it gets under the trash blanket rather than applying it in the normal manner which would disturb the trash blanket. I have been told this by people who do it and they seem to think it works ok, retains moisture better and lowers costs. I don't know if all the farmers do it of course.

We did one field like this this year. The new cane is coming up a little slower at first, but it is keeping the weeds down. Problem with it is that you run the risk of losing your crop to fire. More people in our area cut fresh this year than last year. There is one buyer who only cuts fresh, but he's not got a big quota. Cutters prefer burned cane. They can earn more money at it. Depends on you you do it too. I've seen some people tie in 10 stalk bundles, others require it just stacked in 100 stalk piles and then clear the leaves away so loader can pick it easily. Cutters don't mind this last method too much.

The original method of burning cane was to reduce the risk of Weils disease - basically a disease the cutters got from rats piss, and not very nice from what I understand. And burnt cane easier to get in and cut.

What I was referring to was mechanised harvesting (and planting) where the harvester cuts the cane and leaves the trash behind.

The trash blanket is used in the higher rainfall areas - not so much the Isaan type climate.

Where I worked (in a sugar mill as an engineer for many years) has an Isaan type climate with distinct wet and dry but plentiful water for irrigation.The farmers drag the trash into rows and burn it after harvesting ....more to keep the rows clear of trash to allow water flow.

We are talking fairly big farms here - 300 acres or more and laser levelled to get the water flow right.

Higher costs for herbicide, but being irrigated, much higher yields. And obviously much higher labour costs - hence the mechanisation.

I did ask the question previously about mill payments. Do they use a tonne times sugar content for payment or is it just tonnes of cane, with the amount of sugar ignored? The farmers are on a quota system?

I'm tempted to try cane farming here myself....not that I have ever done it before , but do understand the industry and processes quite well.

[Canada]

The original method of burning cane was to reduce the risk of Weils disease - basically a disease the cutters got from rats piss, and not very nice from what I understand. And burnt cane easier to get in and cut.

What I was referring to was mechanised harvesting (and planting) where the harvester cuts the cane and leaves the trash behind.

The trash blanket is used in the higher rainfall areas - not so much the Isaan type climate.

Where I worked (in a sugar mill as an engineer for many years) has an Isaan type climate with distinct wet and dry but plentiful water for irrigation.The farmers drag the trash into rows and burn it after harvesting ....more to keep the rows clear of trash to allow water flow.

We are talking fairly big farms here - 300 acres or more and laser levelled to get the water flow right.

Higher costs for herbicide, but being irrigated, much higher yields. And obviously much higher labour costs - hence the mechanisation.

I did ask the question previously about mill payments. Do they use a tonne times sugar content for payment or is it just tonnes of cane, with the amount of sugar ignored? The farmers are on a quota system?

I'm tempted to try cane farming here myself....not that I have ever done it before , but do understand the industry and processes quite well.

Pay CCS as well. If farmers sell to the mill, then there is a quota system. Most farmers sell to a middle man (who can transport) at tonne price. That's all they get.