The world over it is the farmers who take the risk and get shafted by the bulk selling middle people.

Not under Abhisit's rice mortgage scheme it wasn't!!!!!

Nonsense. If anything it was more prone to millers robbing the ordinary farmers.

Under the previous insurance scheme of of Abhisit , farmers sold to millers and were reimbursed for the difference if the rice was bought below 11,000 baht. With the PTP rice mortgage scheme, farmers will sell rice directly to the government for 15,000 baht.

By all means complain and mock this joke of a policy that is literally ruining the economy, but don`t let your yellow specks convince you the Dem version was corruption free or ideal. The only reason it was slightly more sustainable was because it didnt pay them as much.

Still find this forum amazing in the way so many guys mock a corrupt and inefficient government and crave an equally corrupt and inefficient one to return in its place. The fact they are both useless is beyond their comprehension.

It was also more sustainable because the (former) government didn't collect and stockpile the rice and assume responsibility for selling it while anticipating that they could manipulate the market. All they did was offer price support to farmers when it fell below a threshold value. It was a far less economically retarded scheme than the Phuea Thai version.

Just the type of response one would expect from those that realize it is the truth, The price of the rice is being manipulated not by the international rice market but the millers and exporters in Thailand.

If there is such a surplus of rice do as the Indian government does it subsidizes it grains to the tune of $14 billion dollars in 2011-2012, they have given free rice and other grains to 20 million of their poorest citizens and supplies low cost rice to another 65 million citizen that fall below the poverty level at 74 to 86% below procurement levels.

Thailand could do that also the government purchase the rice and give it to the poorest in the country and offer low price rice to all citizens of Thailand, much the same as fuel rich Venezuela sell gas in the country for pennies a gallon.

If anyone should take advantage of low prices it should be the citizens of Thailand not the millers or the exporters!

Cheers

please repeat again, who could purchase the rice?

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Spot on there Marston.

Thailand's agriculture sector is stuck in the mid 19th century and the little farmer with a dozen rai is never going to be able to keep up.

Sadly Thailand is scared of westerners coming in to modernise and mechanise it's farming so you have total inefficiency and the poverty that goes with it.

Agree,

I think that Thailand should get over their xenophobia and forget all about this 'we have never been colonised' thinking and embrace help from foreigners and adopt modern practices!!

an abusive flaming post has been removed and I see that there have been several others verging on flames as well.

please calm down, all. If you believe someone else's post to be inaccurate, say so calmly and factually. Insults do not strengthen the case.

The farms are too small and disjointed, the production methods unchanged for decades, still using water buffaloes and manual planting and harvesting.

The farms should be modernised and formed into cooperatives to take advantage of machinery costs.

Farmers should be educated via the coop's to change their farming methods, but that is unlikely as the government cannot even stop them from the seasonal burn off threatening the environment.

Lastly, the real problem is greed from the man in Dubai and PTP, they have all gotten rich at the expense of the poor farmer, by attempting to manipulate market forces. Then they buried their heads in the sand and hoped the mess would go away while still pocketing their ill gotten gains.

Until Thailand recognises and deals with entrenched corruption, nothing will change, it will be the rubber farmers or another group next in line.

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Simple fact is thats the market price and the farmers need to start and improve and produce better quality rice at the correct humidity along with a reduction in herbicides and pesticides that has lost them business., its an expensive job for the millers etc to get it to the correct humidity level and after all they are buying expensive water. Nations around have over taken in quality and production costs and unless the Thai public is prepared to subsidise its farmers they will go out of business. British taxpayer pays on average pay about £300 per year to subsidise EU farmers, would the Thai public be prepared to do the same.

Failing that they will have to do what my grand parents did years ago up and move to an area where they can make a living.

They need bigger volume and sustained quality.

I do object that reportedly farmers are screwed by the buyers for moisture and quality and there is no redress.

I had this issue over and over again with UK farmers sending in corn high moisture content. Used to cost us a fortune to get the moisture content down with dryers blowing hot air through ducts. If its high moisture such as 18-20% then you are buying 20% water in that tonne. Expensive water. Farms have to get bigger and modernise otherwise no future for any of the small growers who are no longer able to keep up with the likes of India and Vietnam who have come from behind and over taken the Thai rice farmers. Once Thailand decided to stop selling to push up world prices it took as the trader says a click of a mouse to buy else where. For $38 they could laways buy a moisture metre and check on the farm for themselves, or chip in and buy one between them. Progress maybe not, blame culture mentality better.

When he saw Thailands pledge to hike up the price of rice, he says he and virtually every global trader knew how to respond. With the click of a mouse, or sometimes a quick phone call, his traders in Dubai could switch their purchases from Thailand to suppliers in India, Pakistan, Myanmar, or Vietnam. It doesnt take five minutes, he says.

http://world.time.com/2013/07/12/how-thailands-botched-rice-scheme-blew-a-big-hole-in-its-economy/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Rice-Corn-Wheat-Grain-Moisture-Temperature-Meter-Tester-MD-7822-/131003675477

Exactly.

I exported another product from thailand. We would reduce the price according to moisture, but we would be checked by inspectors and we were very honest.

I don't see why farmers accept being screwed by companies in how they measure moisture quality. In my experience, the agriculture department was on the side of the farmers. If a company claims the product is 25%, moisture, but it isn't, why does the farmer just accept the buyers opinion?

Are you aware of the world price for buying rice?

Maybe to many farmers growing rice

Certain parts of India, China, the Horn of Africa and many other African nations, and many South Asian countries all suffer from food shortages.

But you're suggesting people produce less of the staple of all those areas in order to make it more financially viable.

Perhaps there's an alternative way forward.

95% of the worlds rice is consumed in country. Exported rice comes from 4 or 5 countries and is a tiny volume versus the total.

Starving countries are not importing hom Mali at 15000 per tonne

The rice farmers around Nakhon Sawan are not being paid 15,000 baht per ton,The average is 11,000 baht per ton selling to the government rice scheme. so the price you are stating is not factual!

The lower priced edible rice can be sold in the Third world countries, it is less then truthful to say there is to much rice being produced in the world.

Their is no excuse to cut back rice farming production when there is so much hunger in the world!

Cheers

These poor people have no money understand they are poor. Europe and the United States has to more to give them.

Do you think China Russia India or Thailand will give them money so they can buy rice?

So their is to much rice chasing little money

The farms are too small and disjointed, the production methods unchanged for decades, still using water buffaloes and manual planting and harvesting.

The farms should be modernised and formed into cooperatives to take advantage of machinery costs.

Farmers should be educated via the coop's to change their farming methods, but that is unlikely as the government cannot even stop them from the seasonal burn off threatening the environment.

Lastly, the real problem is greed from the man in Dubai and PTP, they have all gotten rich at the expense of the poor farmer, by attempting to manipulate market forces. Then they buried their heads in the sand and hoped the mess would go away while still pocketing their ill gotten gains.

Until Thailand recognises and deals with entrenched corruption, nothing will change, it will be the rubber farmers or another group next in line.

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You moan about Thaksin. I don't think I've seen too many loss making rice merchants. Some of the richest families in Thailand have their roots in rice trading.

And on top of that, with every crop the mill owners steal 40% of the rice the farmers try to sell by saying it's not good quality rice, it's too humid, it's underweight and any other lies that they can, so after all the middlemen take their cut the farmer who has slogged hard to make this rice gets a tiny cut of the profit for his product. It's all disgusting but for some reason accepted here by the farmers because they have no option.

.

The question here would seem "what prices are the millers quoting for "grain with 15% moisture content" and how much of the price difference can be seen as 'reasonable' and how much as unreasonable?

if its sold by weight ,theyre not going to pay for 15% " moisture "

nobody would ........

Good.

et the poor farmers know what is the real price of their rice without Thaksin government help.

And on top of that, with every crop the mill owners steal 40% of the rice the farmers try to sell by saying it's not good quality rice, it's too humid, it's underweight and any other lies that they can, so after all the middlemen take their cut the farmer who has slogged hard to make this rice gets a tiny cut of the profit for his product. It's all disgusting but for some reason accepted here by the farmers because they have no option.

.

The question here would seem "what prices are the millers quoting for "grain with 15% moisture content" and how much of the price difference can be seen as 'reasonable' and how much as unreasonable?

if its sold by weight ,theyre not going to pay for 15% " moisture "

nobody would ........

It is calculated as a price at 15%. When it is tested, the price is reduced accordingly. 15% moisture makes a massive difference to the processing yield and quality.

The farms are too small and disjointed, the production methods unchanged for decades, still using water buffaloes and manual planting and harvesting.

The farms should be modernised and formed into cooperatives to take advantage of machinery costs.

Farmers should be educated via the coop's to change their farming methods, but that is unlikely as the government cannot even stop them from the seasonal burn off threatening the environment.

Lastly, the real problem is greed from the man in Dubai and PTP, they have all gotten rich at the expense of the poor farmer, by attempting to manipulate market forces. Then they buried their heads in the sand and hoped the mess would go away while still pocketing their ill gotten gains.

Until Thailand recognises and deals with entrenched corruption, nothing will change, it will be the rubber farmers or another group next in line.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You have not been any where close to Thai rice farming have you, Still using water buffalo, give me a break!

Most farming famiiies in our area own a new tractor i million baht per tractor, when the farmers came to Bangkok, those are the tractor used in the field, that is why they are hurting for money, to make on lump sum payment per year on the payments for the tractors.at harvest time.

The only problem is the greed of the middle man, there is a market for that rice now! at great prices!

Cheers

The farms are too small and disjointed, the production methods unchanged for decades, still using water buffaloes and manual planting and harvesting.

The farms should be modernised and formed into cooperatives to take advantage of machinery costs.

Farmers should be educated via the coop's to change their farming methods, but that is unlikely as the government cannot even stop them from the seasonal burn off threatening the environment.

Lastly, the real problem is greed from the man in Dubai and PTP, they have all gotten rich at the expense of the poor farmer, by attempting to manipulate market forces. Then they buried their heads in the sand and hoped the mess would go away while still pocketing their ill gotten gains.

Until Thailand recognises and deals with entrenched corruption, nothing will change, it will be the rubber farmers or another group next in line.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You have not been any where close to Thai rice farming have you, Still using water buffalo, give me a break!

Most farming famiiies in our area own a new tractor i million baht per tractor, when the farmers came to Bangkok, those are the tractor used in the field, that is why they are hurting for money, to make on lump sum payment per year on the payments for the tractors.at harvest time.

The only problem is the greed of the middle man, there is a market for that rice now! at great prices!

Cheers

please repeat, what market? how great is the rice price?

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The farms are too small and disjointed, the production methods unchanged for decades, still using water buffaloes and manual planting and harvesting.

The farms should be modernised and formed into cooperatives to take advantage of machinery costs.

Farmers should be educated via the coop's to change their farming methods, but that is unlikely as the government cannot even stop them from the seasonal burn off threatening the environment.

Lastly, the real problem is greed from the man in Dubai and PTP, they have all gotten rich at the expense of the poor farmer, by attempting to manipulate market forces. Then they buried their heads in the sand and hoped the mess would go away while still pocketing their ill gotten gains.

Until Thailand recognises and deals with entrenched corruption, nothing will change, it will be the rubber farmers or another group next in line.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Most farming famiiies in our area own a new tractor i million baht per tractor,

With all due respect you don't even know what politicians are visiting your area unless your red shirt leader neighbor tells you.

Did your red shirt leader tell you this or did you go around the village and ask all the farmers yourself?

PS - They would be great prices if it didn't cost the Thai farmer 7000 baht per rai to produce compared to 4 900 baht per rai for the vietnamese to produce.

One must keep in mind what the topic on the thread is that prices are dropping for rice in Thailand, and it is not because of a decrease in the international price, and the forces of supply and demand, it is internal monopoly on rice middleman that is taking advantage of the Thai Rice farmers.

When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!

Thailand has lost its ranking on rice exporting that it will never gain again by paying lower prices to the farmer!

Cheers

"When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!"

Well what do you know, a rational statement! Now explain why you support a government that wasted B800+ billion on subsidies and corruption rather than adopt this philosophy.

I have asked you a number of times to document how many baht are missing and from what part of the budget, not one yellow supporter has been able to do that, if billions of baht are missing tell how much and from where in the the budget.

If in fact all this money is missing would not the NACC know that in their year investigation and only charge Yingluck with negligence.

I am inclined to believe you are only stating B/S and have no idea of any missing money, only repeat any untruth the lair Suthep states.

Cheers

The farms are too small and disjointed, the production methods unchanged for decades, still using water buffaloes and manual planting and harvesting.

The farms should be modernised and formed into cooperatives to take advantage of machinery costs.

Farmers should be educated via the coop's to change their farming methods, but that is unlikely as the government cannot even stop them from the seasonal burn off threatening the environment.

Lastly, the real problem is greed from the man in Dubai and PTP, they have all gotten rich at the expense of the poor farmer, by attempting to manipulate market forces. Then they buried their heads in the sand and hoped the mess would go away while still pocketing their ill gotten gains.

Until Thailand recognises and deals with entrenched corruption, nothing will change, it will be the rubber farmers or another group next in line.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Most farming famiiies in our area own a new tractor i million baht per tractor,

With all due respect you don't even know what politicians are visiting your area unless your red shirt leader neighbor tells you.

Did your red shirt leader tell you this or did you go around the village and ask all the farmers yourself?

PS - They would be great prices if it didn't cost the Thai farmer 7000 baht per rai to produce compared to 4 900 baht per rai for the vietnamese to produce.

Of course you also can not document your rant, on production prices per rai. is so lets see them,

You most likely have never seen more than a large bowl of rice in your life, I can see the tractors from my front yard, pass by every morning while I enjoy my morning cup of coffee,

I unlike you are capable to think for my self, I could stand alone against the best the yellow can field!

Cheers

Rant documented here. Thus the rant becomes facts. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Agricultural-price-pledging-policy-has-failed-30177714.html

So you know all the tractors owned by all the farmers by sitting on your patio drinking coffee? I assume you can see the PTP majority from your front patio as well?

Don't read my posts much do you. I live in Khon Kaen and my wife's family live in Kalasin and farm rice.

3 years after the PTP rice scheme, they still don't own a car. Rain still leaks in through the roof of their house. The husband has a 2nd job. Rice is turning brown and they fear they will loose the harvest. I asked if they know about higher yields through improving water management, better seed selection, alternate pesticides, more efficient harvesting methods and soil analysis. Their eyes glazed up while staring over the 18" black and white TV they saved up for.

Wanna know why they have not got ahead? Because 2.59 million of the poorest rice-growing households do not produce enough grain to join the program. Of course you knew this because you live in the rice heartland of Thailand.

One must keep in mind what the topic on the thread is that prices are dropping for rice in Thailand, and it is not because of a decrease in the international price, and the forces of supply and demand, it is internal monopoly on rice middleman that is taking advantage of the Thai Rice farmers.

When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!

Thailand has lost its ranking on rice exporting that it will never gain again by paying lower prices to the farmer!

Cheers

"When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!"

Well what do you know, a rational statement! Now explain why you support a government that wasted B800+ billion on subsidies and corruption rather than adopt this philosophy.

I have asked you a number of times to document how many baht are missing and from what part of the budget, not one yellow supporter has been able to do that, if billions of baht are missing tell how much and from where in the the budget.

If in fact all this money is missing would not the NACC know that in their year investigation and only charge Yingluck with negligence.

I am inclined to believe you are only stating B/S and have no idea of any missing money, only repeat any untruth the lair Suthep states.

Cheers

Bit hard to say where the money is missing from when the PTP refuse black and blue to be transparent in there accounting. And as you have inadvertently highlighted with out transparency there is no trail to follow thus why the PTP refuse to release figures.

The farms are too small and disjointed, the production methods unchanged for decades, still using water buffaloes and manual planting and harvesting.

The farms should be modernised and formed into cooperatives to take advantage of machinery costs.

Farmers should be educated via the coop's to change their farming methods, but that is unlikely as the government cannot even stop them from the seasonal burn off threatening the environment.

Lastly, the real problem is greed from the man in Dubai and PTP, they have all gotten rich at the expense of the poor farmer, by attempting to manipulate market forces. Then they buried their heads in the sand and hoped the mess would go away while still pocketing their ill gotten gains.

Until Thailand recognises and deals with entrenched corruption, nothing will change, it will be the rubber farmers or another group next in line.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You have not been any where close to Thai rice farming have you, Still using water buffalo, give me a break!

Most farming famiiies in our area own a new tractor i million baht per tractor, when the farmers came to Bangkok, those are the tractor used in the field, that is why they are hurting for money, to make on lump sum payment per year on the payments for the tractors.at harvest time.

The only problem is the greed of the middle man, there is a market for that rice now! at great prices!

Cheers

Firstly, Kilkoman lives in Nakhon Sawan, one of the nation's most productive rice growing areas. Even face to face discussion with Nakhion Sawan farmers in their own language is not going to tell you much about the difficulties of the rice farmers in the far larger (and more harsh) region of Isaan.

So don't be tempted to extrapolate what you believe to be the financial status of most farming families around Nakhon Sawan with those of farming families across the whole of Thailand. Having very personal experience of farming families in Nakhon Sawan Province and elsewhere in Thailand, I can assure you there are vast differences in income, wealth and land productivity.

Secondly, the only problem is not simply greed of the middle men - You keep trotting this out and while it has a grain of truth it is far from the only problem.

The Failed PTP Rice Pledging Scheme is the core problem within which the part played by middlemen is just a part (A part that the PTP government were warned of at the start of the Failed PTP Rice Pledging Scheme.

But the problems are a lot deeper - as discussed above and as witnessed by the repeated shame faced lies told by representatives of the PTP Government.

MoU that did not exist and G2G deals that did not exist are examples dating back right through 2013 and which were clear indicators that the scheme was failing.

If it was not why did the PTP dream up MoU that did not exist and G2G sales that did not exist? (Can someone supportive of the government please answer that question?

Moreover, in mid 2013 the PTP Government set about the persecution of the civil servant who exposed corruption in the Failed PTP Rice Pledging scheme to the Senate, despite the government having received reports of corruption in the Failed PTP Rice Pledging Scheme as early as October 2012. (Perhaps a mark of how Red Democracy treats those reporting corruption in government schemes)

Following this persecution, and having sent a very clear message to the civil service not to expose corruption the Puppet PM then announced she was willing to hear accounts of corruption, but that her government would prosecute those who could not produce solid evidence.

A normal democracy would have set up an investigation to hear evidence in good faith for further investigation.

As yet, with repeated and constant criticism of corruption in the Failed PTP Rice Pledging Scheme, the PTP has not allowed an independent investigation of the scheme, its management OR its books.

To claim then that the middlemen are the only problem is to stick one's head in the rice mountain and deny knowledge of every piece of evidence that the system is failing.

If you need an indisputable fact - Throughout 2013 the PTP claimed to have signed MoU and G2G deals to sell Thai rice - No such MoU have been seen, no such G2G sales contracts have been seen.

The claims made by the PTP Government throughout 2013 to have signed these MoU and G2G rice deals were utter shame faced lies.

But let's point the finger at the middlemen - point anywhere but do not point at the Failed PTP Rice Pledging Scheme Architects.

I have asked you a number of times to document how many baht are missing and from what part of the budget, not one yellow supporter has been able to do that, if billions of baht are missing tell how much and from where in the the budget.

If in fact all this money is missing would not the NACC know that in their year investigation and only charge Yingluck with negligence.

I am inclined to believe you are only stating B/S and have no idea of any missing money, only repeat any untruth the lair Suthep states.

Cheers

The PTP Government have refused to open the books for inspection - refused several times.

But we don't need the books, if the money is not missing the farmers can be paid in full - immediately - nes pas?

I have asked you a number of times to document how many baht are missing and from what part of the budget, not one yellow supporter has been able to do that, if billions of baht are missing tell how much and from where in the the budget.

If in fact all this money is missing would not the NACC know that in their year investigation and only charge Yingluck with negligence.

I am inclined to believe you are only stating B/S and have no idea of any missing money, only repeat any untruth the lair Suthep states.

Cheers

The PTP Government have refused to open the books for inspection - refused several times.

But we don't need the books, if the money is not missing the farmers can be paid in full - immediately - nes pas?

So kikoman…Guesthouse and I have both said the same thing (differently) so with your adherent belief the PTP are right can you explain the lack of transparency or at least explain or reiterate where the money has gone with this lack of transparency being a common thread in the PTP policy platforms?

Well we have posters here who cannot understand the poor price offered by merchants for rice straight from the harvester, along with all the chaff and moisture, some harvested at night when the dew is on bagged and taken to the miller the following day!

We have others who do not appear to understand that there is not a government sponsored welfare system in Thailand! The family farm and ability to feed themselves is the last refuge for many if difficult financial circumstances arise. The advocation of foreign 'investment' is short sighted and surely signifies limited vision regarding the future of rural communities.

I have already pointed out farmers are diversifying, and have in my time in Thailand seen encouragment to do so by successive governments, there is now no shortage of banana growth, papaya, chillies, tomatoes, and mango, eucalyptus trees surround the exterior divides of many a rice paddy, many rear a pig or two on the homestead, many have chickens, and cows, not major crop changes, but accessories to the rice crop

It is rather difficult to accept the more bizzare attitudes that are aired on this thread from the less informed

Farmers will survive, they have had decades of experience........but just for a while the sun shone through the gloom for many.....you think they will forget.....even if they are cast into the dark days again they will be a little easier to endure with the advances in recent years

Well we have posters here who cannot understand the poor price offered by merchants for rice straight from the harvester, along with all the chaff and moisture, some harvested at night when the dew is on bagged and taken to the miller the following day!

We have others who do not appear to understand that there is not a government sponsored welfare system in Thailand! The family farm and ability to feed themselves is the last refuge for many if difficult financial circumstances arise. The advocation of foreign 'investment' is short sighted and surely signifies limited vision regarding the future of rural communities.

I have already pointed out farmers are diversifying, and have in my time in Thailand seen encouragment to do so by successive governments, there is now no shortage of banana growth, papaya, chillies, tomatoes, and mango, eucalyptus trees surround the exterior divides of many a rice paddy, many rear a pig or two on the homestead, many have chickens, and cows, not major crop changes, but accessories to the rice crop

It is rather difficult to accept the more bizzare attitudes that are aired on this thread from the less informed

Farmers will survive, they have had decades of experience........but just for a while the sun shone through the gloom for many.....you think they will forget.....even if they are cast into the dark days again they will be a little easier to endure with the advances in recent years

There is also some that don't understand that 2.59 million of the poorest farmers don't benefit from this scheme. Do you understand that? Do you not a see that the poorest are not benefiting from this scheme?

There are also those that don't understand that trying to manipulate gamble with market prices is not beneficial to a sustainable scheme while manipulating a narrow cross section of society.

How is it that I have a bizarre attitude when the poorest farmers are not benefitting?

Please tell me?

The BAAC has been buying for years, many small farmers do indeed benefit, I have witnessed this first hand, these farmers do not go sell to the millers, the rice is cleaned, dried and stored, when the rice is collected the agreed price is paid, usually months later after the glut is over, this is in the one crop per year area.

I see other farmers who will take their rice from the field direct to the mill, they get the lowest price, I see farmers who clean and dry the rice, then take it to the mill, they gain a better price for obvious reasons, I see those who clean dry and store the rice and sell to the BAAC, they obtain a better price still for reasons that are obvious.

So there are variations in price, but I do not believe even the small farmer would not benefit from the garaunteed rice price for the simple reason he could possibly sell to his neighbour who is in the scheme for a baht below....I have not witnessed this as all the small farmers I know are in the scheme and have dealt with the BAAC for years....maybe there is a reason others have not.

If the "small farmers" had any sense they would set up their own co-operative

Will not happen however -------

Bloody hell Jamie, you must be a right tight one that you can't buy your inlaws a bigger TV or get their roof fixed for them

Plough 100 baht per rai

Disc 100 baht per rai

Plant - broadcast - 100 baht per rai - seed rice supplied from previous years crop

Fertiliser - 1500 baht per rai (x 2 broadcasts)

Reaping 650 baht per rai

Cartage 500 baht

Total 2950 baht per rai

Now I admit these are 'family' rates Jamie, and I admit they do not include a cost for scraping if required, usually every alternate year, also I have not included refreshments, but I would be interested to know where you get your 7000 baht a rai production costs? as you claim in post 104

You stated:

"PS - They would be great prices if it didn't cost the Thai farmer 7000 baht per rai to produce compared to 4 900 baht per rai for the vietnamese to produce."

Plough 100 baht per rai

Disc 100 baht per rai

Plant - broadcast - 100 baht per rai - seed rice supplied from previous years crop

Fertiliser - 1500 baht per rai (x 2 broadcasts)

Reaping 650 baht per rai

Cartage 500 baht

Total 2950 baht per rai

Now I admit these are 'family' rates Jamie, and I admit they do not include a cost for scraping if required, usually every alternate year, also I have not included refreshments, but I would be interested to know where you get your 7000 baht a rai production costs? as you claim in post 104

You stated:

"PS - They would be great prices if it didn't cost the Thai farmer 7000 baht per rai to produce compared to 4 900 baht per rai for the vietnamese to produce."

Indeed. I can believe it's more, but this 7000 baht number being nearly double Vietnam seems very high.

The BAAC has been buying for years, many small farmers do indeed benefit, I have witnessed this first hand, these farmers do not go sell to the millers, the rice is cleaned, dried and stored, when the rice is collected the agreed price is paid, usually months later after the glut is over, this is in the one crop per year area.

I see other farmers who will take their rice from the field direct to the mill, they get the lowest price, I see farmers who clean and dry the rice, then take it to the mill, they gain a better price for obvious reasons, I see those who clean dry and store the rice and sell to the BAAC, they obtain a better price still for reasons that are obvious.

So there are variations in price, but I do not believe even the small farmer would not benefit from the garaunteed rice price for the simple reason he could possibly sell to his neighbour who is in the scheme for a baht below....I have not witnessed this as all the small farmers I know are in the scheme and have dealt with the BAAC for years....maybe there is a reason others have not.

What about an article here a few weeks back stating "the poorest 2.59 million farmers don't produce enough to participate in the scheme"? The fat cats usually get all the cream. What is new?

Can anyone corroborate this fact of 2.59 million farmers not being able to sell into the scheme?

Or that they cooperate with bigger farmers who will buy at a discount but below their own rate under the scheme?

Not sure where the "media" gets its prices from, but the Global Rice Price website, Oryza shows the lowest priced Thai Rice quotes, "Thailand A1 broken", as $310-320 a ton, roughly 10,000 baht a ton

http://oryza.com/

The UN FAO site states the same price for rice exports $310 a ton

http://www.fao.org/economic/est/publications/rice-publications/the-fao-rice-price-update/en/

and if you want a comparison site for a company selling the rice on, "Rice Authority" who, they state, "have the lowest prices in the industry" quote Thai A1 super broken at $532 per metric tonne

http://www.riceauthority.com/prices/

Perhaps someone can tell me if I'm reading these sites wrongly?

In this article the prices mentioned are the prices the millers pay, not the end price, which would be around the 10.000 baht

One must keep in mind what the topic on the thread is that prices are dropping for rice in Thailand, and it is not because of a decrease in the international price, and the forces of supply and demand, it is internal monopoly on rice middleman that is taking advantage of the Thai Rice farmers.

When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!

Thailand has lost its ranking on rice exporting that it will never gain again by paying lower prices to the farmer!

Cheers

"When it cost more to produce the rice then you can sell it for it is time to look into other crops to grow or to leave farming completely and sell you crop land to developers!"

Well what do you know, a rational statement! Now explain why you support a government that wasted B800+ billion on subsidies and corruption rather than adopt this philosophy.

I have asked you a number of times to document how many baht are missing and from what part of the budget, not one yellow supporter has been able to do that, if billions of baht are missing tell how much and from where in the the budget.

If in fact all this money is missing would not the NACC know that in their year investigation and only charge Yingluck with negligence.

I am inclined to believe you are only stating B/S and have no idea of any missing money, only repeat any untruth the lair Suthep states.

Cheers

Listen up cloth ears - the government owes the BAAC B500 billion, it owes the farmers B130 billion, it owes storage fees which reportedly has not been paid for a year, and there are reports of millers being owed as well. To counter that, it has a lot old rotting rice in storage which if sold will not cover a fraction of what is owed. Everybody but you is well aware of this, but you don't want to know.

Where has that vast amount of money gone? Are rice farmers all driving new Mercs?

The last crop bought at B15000/tonne was milled, at a generous 25% loss rate it now COST B20,000/tonne and it is selling for around B8,000/tonne. Even an idiot should be able to work out that that is a great way to lose money fast. Why would you do it? I will give you 2 very good reasons; to buy the votes of the subsidy recipients, and to enrich those who own land rented to grow rice and those who are engaged in larger scale rice farming. Both parties were included in a scam ostensibly to help "poor" rice farmers, both parties include members of this government.

BTW Suthep is more a Flash Harry than a lair