Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[P45Mustang]

BTW. A Boeing 777 is slightly bigger than a licence plate. Especially at 40,000 feet.

[davidstipek]

So do we go back to the theory of pilot suicide as the reason for what appears to be a planned premeditated exercise?

For me, I never strayed, from day 1, from 'pilot suicide' and mass murder. If I were an attorney for passengers, I think it would be a slam dunk. ...Though I presume attorneys will, as much as possible, try to implicate those with deepest pockets, like Boeing - but they'll be stretching too far in that regard.

It they thought the plane was south of the Equator... then yes! they would be correct in thinking this.

But what happens if it was if flight was above (North of) Equator? Then as Stated before here by several, they would be exactly 180 degrees off as signal would have mirrored itself. There I said it for her..

Very unlikely it would have flown N of the equator anywhere near that arc. There are several countries there on war footings (of facsimile thereof), with radar on high alert.

Maylasia... South China sea...where MHA disapeared in north of Equator. Where Aircraft crossed just south of Thailand and did its turns and Climb to +40,000' is on the arc... This is all north of equator. If all pings received are at same fequeny shift as what was received here... then the plane on reported Arc by Satelite... Remember it is Night/Early Morning flew North on that Arc. Your Statement "There are several countries there on war footings (of facsimile thereof), with radar on high alert." If these countries responded as everyone else did in response to MHA370... It was guar. free passage and uninterupted flight!

Sure if you are antisipating something to show up on Radar you MIGHT have caught the Pings on your screen. But by the time...if you were exerienced... and you verified what you thought might have shown up on secondary radar. It would have been dismissed as Birds... Debrie or what ever it would have been long gone. Not an air route... no reason to suspect anything... Back to coffee and donuts...

If the signal differed from the rest of what was received along arc... Then MH370 had gone South across Equator...

But to say Countries were on high alert and would have seen MH370.... Has already been proven wrong! It Already had disapeared from everyones Fancy, New, Electronic, Digital Displays. No one would have been paying any attention to any secondary radar display. Many may have thought not needed with New Technology and turned off... No one was even looking for MH370 at this time!!!!

[davidstipek]

There appears to be some doubt then that any surveillance satellite or any aerial has picked up MH370.

So we are left with the dubious extrapolation from the inmarsat communications satellite.

Cos it doesn't seem to be appearing on anybody's radar either.

40,000 feet, no cloud.

It was on Flight24's site and you could watch MH370 disapear along with 3-4 other Aircraft (All Indonesinan) to the right of it until someone edited their replay now only see MH370 no other aircraft on screen .... zilch!!! 2 disapeared 747's and after 5-6 minutes returned to display (same flight ID's came back. The 767 Freighter just North of Riau Islands Never did return anywhere to display. Tracked Air routes from this location to see if Flight ID was redisplayed anywhere... Just like it wanted to disappear also. Went back looking to see if there was a 767 with different flight ID # anywhere that could tie to this route..None. Now you Go and try to dig deeper and it has all been removed... Not available!

[P45Mustang]

I think the guy is making some valid points here.

Commercial Airlines flying all over Kazakstan and all the 'stans day in day out.

Fly BKK-LHR and how many 'stans do you fly over?

Plus, if it is on 'stan radar would they necessarily make the data available?

[P45Mustang]

There appears to be some doubt then that any surveillance satellite or any aerial has picked up MH370.

So we are left with the dubious extrapolation from the inmarsat communications satellite.

Cos it doesn't seem to be appearing on anybody's radar either.

40,000 feet, no cloud.

It was on Flight24's site and you could watch MH370 disapear along with 3-4 other Aircraft (All Indonesinan) to the right of it until someone edited their replay now only see MH370 no other aircraft on screen .... zilch!!! 2 disapeared 747's and after 5-6 minutes returned to display (same flight ID's came back. The 767 Freighter just North of Riau Islands Never did return anywhere to display. Tracked Air routes from this location to see if Flight ID was redisplayed anywhere... Just like it wanted to disappear also. Went back looking to see if there was a 767 with different flight ID # anywhere that could tie to this route..None. Now you Go and try to dig deeper and it has all been removed... Not available!

I get your drift.

I am drawing no conclusions but very prepared to keep an open mind.

Thanks.

[davidstipek]

I don't believe the shoot down theory, and the malaysians spent four days collecting debris before revealing it turned almost 180 degrees. The problem with that is that not everyone will keep their mouths shut. Someone is always seeking his 15 minutes of fame, so somebody would have leaked it by now, but that presumes more than one person was collecting debris, and there must have been hundreds.

Remember there was a Life Raft found in Straits... Reported to Authorities... They responded (fisherman were smart enough to take pictures of "Board Here" lettering on Aircraft style Life Raft.

Then as they transfered Raft to Authorities... The Authorities dropped it and it sank.... Mistake? or a Planned exercise... to finish clean-up?? So called earthquake that so convienenty occurred days after Aircraft disappeared, with no wave action also so far away from any fault areas...

It was not a 777 Door slide, it was a raft from a ship, probably washed overboard in a storm.

So no mystery there even if you want to try and invent one.

Chicog... How do you... Know it wasn't a door slide...???

It was never retreived (fully viewed) out of water... To big and too Heavy!!! This was way Navy Dropped it!! They thought it was just a raft and tried to man-handle it... just a weird Mistake as all we know is that it was Huge to big to tug-aboard as Life raft would have been much lighter easier for 2-3 men.

Was Not a 777 doorslide... No one knows that!

Was a raft from ship... No one knows that either now!

No Mystery here! Just stating facts as was reported on AIS site, when happened as apparently reported by Fisherman not wanting to get blamed for its loss. (Navy never reported it!)

[retell]

There appears to be some doubt then that any surveillance satellite or any aerial has picked up MH370.

So we are left with the dubious extrapolation from the inmarsat communications satellite.

Cos it doesn't seem to be appearing on anybody's radar either.

40,000 feet, no cloud.

It was on Flight24's site and you could watch MH370 disapear along with 3-4 other Aircraft (All Indonesinan) to the right of it until someone edited their replay now only see MH370 no other aircraft on screen .... zilch!!! 2 disapeared 747's and after 5-6 minutes returned to display (same flight ID's came back. The 767 Freighter just North of Riau Islands Never did return anywhere to display. Tracked Air routes from this location to see if Flight ID was redisplayed anywhere... Just like it wanted to disappear also. Went back looking to see if there was a 767 with different flight ID # anywhere that could tie to this route..None. Now you Go and try to dig deeper and it has all been removed... Not available!

Or you and a few other that are digging deeper burned out their harddrive

[P45Mustang]

Just a thought.

If the US and other nations have the technology to detect InterContinental Ballistic Missiles, is it beyond the realms of possibility that a 777 flying at 40,000 ft, close to the stratosphere, would be a metallic object that would be detected by such systems.

MH370 is believed to have flown at higher than normal altitude for a commercial airliner, at least for part of its journey.

ie. Abnormal metal object.

Apologies for confusion with the licence plate analogy.

[P45Mustang]

There appears to be some doubt then that any surveillance satellite or any aerial has picked up MH370.

So we are left with the dubious extrapolation from the inmarsat communications satellite.

Cos it doesn't seem to be appearing on anybody's radar either.

40,000 feet, no cloud.

It was on Flight24's site and you could watch MH370 disapear along with 3-4 other Aircraft (All Indonesinan) to the right of it until someone edited their replay now only see MH370 no other aircraft on screen .... zilch!!! 2 disapeared 747's and after 5-6 minutes returned to display (same flight ID's came back. The 767 Freighter just North of Riau Islands Never did return anywhere to display. Tracked Air routes from this location to see if Flight ID was redisplayed anywhere... Just like it wanted to disappear also. Went back looking to see if there was a 767 with different flight ID # anywhere that could tie to this route..None. Now you Go and try to dig deeper and it has all been removed... Not available!

Or you and a few other that are digging deeper burned out their harddrive

Aussies are digging deep in the Indian Ocean and still haven't found it.

Do we have an open mind to ideas that appear a little bit off the wall?

Shoot felonious, unsupportable stuff down in flames by all means.

Closed minds will not solve this one.

[Tywais]

I don't believe the shoot down theory, and the malaysians spent four days collecting debris before revealing it turned almost 180 degrees. The problem with that is that not everyone will keep their mouths shut. Someone is always seeking his 15 minutes of fame, so somebody would have leaked it by now, but that presumes more than one person was collecting debris, and there must have been hundreds.

Remember there was a Life Raft found in Straits... Reported to Authorities... They responded (fisherman were smart enough to take pictures of "Board Here" lettering on Aircraft style Life Raft.

Then as they transfered Raft to Authorities... The Authorities dropped it and it sank.... Mistake? or a Planned exercise... to finish clean-up?? So called earthquake that so convienenty occurred days after Aircraft disappeared, with no wave action also so far away from any fault areas...

It was not a 777 Door slide, it was a raft from a ship, probably washed overboard in a storm.

So no mystery there even if you want to try and invent one.

Chicog... How do you... Know it wasn't a door slide...???

Many pages back I posted an exact match to the raft that was photographed and it matched perfectly a maritime raft image and nowhere near what an aircraft slide raft looks like. The below matches very accurately the photograph of the item as they were pulling it out before losing it. Color matches, and so does the 'BOARDING' label as does the tent though collapsed in the lost raft photo.

[NeverSure]

Just a thought.

If the US and other nations have the technology to detect InterContinental Ballistic Missiles, is it beyond the realms of possibility that a 777 flying at 40,000 ft, close to the stratosphere, would be a metallic object that would be detected by such systems.

MH370 is believed to have flown at higher than normal altitude for a commercial airliner, at least for part of its journey.

ie. Abnormal metal object.

Apologies for confusion with the licence plate analogy.

I sincerely apologize if I'm wrong, but I "think" I read that ICBM's can be detected only as they are launched, and also upon re-entry. Those are the two points where they can be shot down.

I believe, as others have stated, that no one paid any attention to it. The satellite guesses were made after the fact.

[P45Mustang]

I stan corrected.

Military surveillance data of any sort is of no value in this mystery presumably.

Dubious extrapolation from inmarsat is about as its gonna get by the looks of it.

If they don't find it on the South arc, I wonder if they will look North.

[P45Mustang]

Looks like the life raft is a red herring.

But you know what they say: 'Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater'.

[Chicog]

Looks like the life raft is a red herring.

But you know what they say: 'Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater'.

It's not a red herring, it's simply an irrelevant piece of debris and was discounted weeks ago.

[Chicog]

Many pages back I posted an exact match to the raft that was photographed and it matched perfectly a maritime raft image and nowhere near what an aircraft slide raft looks like. The below matches very accurately the photograph of the item as they were pulling it out before losing it. Color matches, and so does the 'BOARDING' label as does the tent though collapsed in the lost raft photo.

Hey presto.

[P45Mustang]

Looks like the life raft is a red herring.

But you know what they say: 'Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater'.

It's not a red herring, it's simply an irrelevant piece of debris and was discounted weeks ago.

Fully understood and appreciated.

Nevertheless.

"Throwing the baby out with the bath water" is an expression that implies that an entire idea, concept, practice or project doesn't need to be rejected or discontinued if part of it is good. The baby, in this sense, represents the good part that can be preserved. The bath water, on the other hand, usually is dirty after the baby is washed and needs to be discarded, just like the parts of the concept that are bad or useless."

One piece of junk does not mean that an entire theory should necessarily be rejected.

Same for any theory about the disappearance of MH370.

[boomerangutang]

Just a thought.

If the US and other nations have the technology to detect InterContinental Ballistic Missiles, is it beyond the realms of possibility that a 777 flying at 40,000 ft, close to the stratosphere, would be a metallic object that would be detected by such systems.

Sophisticated detectors looking for ICBM's and such, are probably directed at particular corridors, not looking at all regions. All indications are the pilot of MH370 intended to leave as small a 'footprint' as possible. If so, he succeeded brilliantly, particularly if he got the plane to ditch in such a remote region.

Military surveillance data of any sort is of no value in this mystery presumably.

Dubious extrapolation from inmarsat is about as its gonna get by the looks of it.

If they don't find it on the South arc, I wonder if they will look North.

There is controversy about whether Malaysian defense radar saw anything that night, and if so what? It has been reported that they detected a mystery craft flying towards Langkawi, but chose to not act on it, thinking if it was a craft looking to make an emergency landing, it could do so at Langkawi or nearby. Whether or not that's true, there are still gray areas in what Malaysian authorities seem willing to divulge. The Malaysian opposition politician said as much, in his first press release on the topic. Maybe it's time for Dick Cheney to fly over to Malaysia with his water board.

[F4UCorsair]

I don't believe the shoot down theory, and the malaysians spent four days collecting debris before revealing it turned almost 180 degrees. The problem with that is that not everyone will keep their mouths shut. Someone is always seeking his 15 minutes of fame, so somebody would have leaked it by now, but that presumes more than one person was collecting debris, and there must have been hundreds.

Don't know.

Military action directed by high ups?

'Need to know basis'?

Remote location?

Sounds like somebody somewhere is closing ranks.

Uh uh and if all of a sudden a large group of malaysian military personell die ,, well there is the proof

Have they died, or are you suggesting they may die? All too fanciful for me.

The problem with that theory is that there would be too many, who would have to have been involved, to count.

I'm having huge difficulty with there being no debris at all, not a seat cushion, nothing. Surely some debris would have been washed up by now if it had broken up on impact.

I'm starting to think that they are in the wrong area by thousands of Kms, or that it didn't hit the water at speed, but I'm sticking with my first speculative scenario and that is that it was flown onto the water, so no significant breakup, hence no debris. The problem with that theory is that it's difficult to believe that a crew member could be so vindictive/bitter/twisted/mentally ill as to kill everybody off with a depressurization, and then fly on for another 6 or so hours before ditching it.

Others will say that it would be impossible to achieve no/minimal breakup if flown on, but there are too many variables to say that with any conviction. Whoever is responsible may have expected significant breakup, and that the mystery would only be so for a few days until debris was located, but he was just lucky.

If the aircraft was a terrorist threat, and Malaysian authorities ordered it shot down, there would be no problem with outing that information. It would be for the greater good, and as I read it, that's what most governments would do.

Edited April 25, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[F4UCorsair]

Many pages back I posted an exact match to the raft that was photographed and it matched perfectly a maritime raft image and nowhere near what an aircraft slide raft looks like. The below matches very accurately the photograph of the item as they were pulling it out before losing it. Color matches, and so does the 'BOARDING' label as does the tent though collapsed in the lost raft photo.

There are some aircraft that still use that style of raft, those without overwing slides, but I don't think the 777 is among them. The 737's still have them, or up to 800 series do.

Chicog, the presence of a "Boarding" placard proves nothing. That is not a term exclusive to aviation, but also used in shipping, in fact was used in shipping long before aviation started using it.

Edited April 25, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted. There is a topic about the Virgin Air 'hijacking":

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/721374-drunk-passenger-sparks-flight-drama-on-virgin-australia-plane-on-way-to-bali/

[tigermonkey]

The UK submarine HMS Tireless has now resigned from the search effort. Soon we will have little left except for speculation.

More at : https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hms-tireless-stands-down-in-search-for-missing-aircraft

Edited April 26, 2014 by tigermonkey

[P45Mustang]

I don't believe the shoot down theory, and the malaysians spent four days collecting debris before revealing it turned almost 180 degrees. The problem with that is that not everyone will keep their mouths shut. Someone is always seeking his 15 minutes of fame, so somebody would have leaked it by now, but that presumes more than one person was collecting debris, and there must have been hundreds.

Don't know.

Military action directed by high ups?

'Need to know basis'?

Remote location?

Sounds like somebody somewhere is closing ranks.

Uh uh and if all of a sudden a large group of malaysian military personell die ,, well there is the proof

I'm starting to think that they are in the wrong area by thousands of Kms, or that it didn't hit the water at speed, but I'm sticking with my first speculative scenario and that is that it was flown onto the water, so no significant breakup, hence no debris. The problem with that theory is that it's difficult to believe that a crew member could be so vindictive/bitter/twisted/mentally ill as to kill everybody off with a depressurization, and then fly on for another 6 or so hours before ditching it.

I agree.

In light of the extreme doubt about what actually happened I think I'd prefer to adopt the more positive outlook that the pilot was actually a hero and averted a terrorist attack.

Suggestion. Plane was hijacked. Pilot was coerced to fly it somewhere. Instead, he dumped it for damage limitation purposes.

Might have been discussed and dismissed already.

Don't know.

[Chicog]

Looks like the life raft is a red herring.

But you know what they say: 'Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater'.

It's not a red herring, it's simply an irrelevant piece of debris and was discounted weeks ago.

Fully understood and appreciated.

Nevertheless.

"Throwing the baby out with the bath water" is an expression that implies that an entire idea, concept, practice or project doesn't need to be rejected or discontinued if part of it is good. The baby, in this sense, represents the good part that can be preserved. The bath water, on the other hand, usually is dirty after the baby is washed and needs to be discarded, just like the parts of the concept that are bad or useless."

One piece of junk does not mean that an entire theory should necessarily be rejected.

Same for any theory about the disappearance of MH370.

I'm not rejecting anything, what are you reading? We're merely saying that that raft did not come from the plane.

[Chicog]

Many pages back I posted an exact match to the raft that was photographed and it matched perfectly a maritime raft image and nowhere near what an aircraft slide raft looks like. The below matches very accurately the photograph of the item as they were pulling it out before losing it. Color matches, and so does the 'BOARDING' label as does the tent though collapsed in the lost raft photo.

There are some aircraft that still use that style of raft, those without overwing slides, but I don't think the 777 is among them. The 737's still have them, or up to 800 series do.

Chicog, the presence of a "Boarding" placard proves nothing. That is not a term exclusive to aviation, but also used in shipping, in fact was used in shipping long before aviation started using it.

Not only are you misquoting me, you'll find the reference to "Boarding" was used to link the debris photograph to the photograph of the real thing.

And I think most people know you can board a ship or an aircraft Duh!

[P45Mustang]

Looks like the life raft is a red herring.

But you know what they say: 'Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater'.

It's not a red herring, it's simply an irrelevant piece of debris and was discounted weeks ago.

Fully understood and appreciated.

Nevertheless.

"Throwing the baby out with the bath water" is an expression that implies that an entire idea, concept, practice or project doesn't need to be rejected or discontinued if part of it is good. The baby, in this sense, represents the good part that can be preserved. The bath water, on the other hand, usually is dirty after the baby is washed and needs to be discarded, just like the parts of the concept that are bad or useless."

One piece of junk does not mean that an entire theory should necessarily be rejected.

Same for any theory about the disappearance of MH370.

I'm not rejecting anything, what are you reading? We're merely saying that that raft did not come from the plane.

I know.

What I am saying is if the stuff that was found on the Australian beach was not from the plane it doesn't mean the plane is not in the Indian Ocean.

[skills32]

Why does every one think that the plane crashed?

Without any evidence I would be looking at the possibility of it landing some where.... on land.

[tigermonkey]

...and now for a distinctly Asian view of the disappearance of MH370. It was all the fault of Boeing for building a plane that could do this, and MAS/Malaysia are entirely without any any blame. The plane was defectively designed, or guided away by remote control, or some other thing which is 100% the fault of the aircraft manufacturer -- so says Dr. M, the former long-term Prime Minister of Malaysia. Sadly, many Malaysians completely agree with him.

The full story at: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/dr-m-defends-mas-and-blames-boeing-for-mh370s-disappearance

[F4UCorsair]

Why does every one think that the plane crashed?

Without any evidence I would be looking at the possibility of it landing some where.... on land.

The evidence from the Inmarsat satellite is that it went down in the ocean. That's what the authorities are working on, last known position, and until there is evidence to the contrary, I expect that will continue.

Edited April 26, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[EyesWideOpen]

...and now for a distinctly Asian view of the disappearance of MH370. It was all the fault of Boeing for building a plane that could do this, and MAS/Malaysia are entirely without any any blame. The plane was defectively designed, or guided away by remote control, or some other thing which is 100% the fault of the aircraft manufacturer -- so says Dr. M, the former long-term Prime Minister of Malaysia. Sadly, many Malaysians completely agree with him.

The full story at: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/dr-m-defends-mas-and-blames-boeing-for-mh370s-disappearance

This is a completely incorrect Asian view by Dr. M. The correct Asian view is that

if Malaysian Airlines had not bought the plane, then the accident would not have

happened. There for it is completely the fault of Malaysian Airlines. :-)

I said it a long time ago on this thread, and I will say it again. This plane will not be

found, nor will any wreckage from it be found in the Indian Ocean. I am not sure what

happened to it, but am fairly sure the official version is not correct.

[Chicog]

What I am saying is if the stuff that was found on the Australian beach was not from the plane it doesn't mean the plane is not in the Indian Ocean.

Oh thanks for the clarification, I would never have worked that out.