Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[Hulkster]

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/03/12/Missing-MH370-Thai-Navy-may-cease-hunt/

All the world is looking for the plane......but thai will suspend...

As they should. Malaysia seems to be hiding information and has allowed countries to waste a lot of time and resources searching for phantom planes in the Gulf of Thailand.

I agree. The countries involved in search in the wrong area should bill Malaysia for the

wasted fuel and time...... At this point the interesting question becomes what is

Malaysia trying to cover up ??

Just an incompetent, nepotistic, third world nation desperately trying to save face.

The lax security procedures at KLIA allowed what I assume to be Iranian hijackers to pass security with weapons in their possession, and Malaysian immigration completely dropped the ball in not detecting their fake passports.

Malaysia more or less lets anyone in their country no questions asked. Security procedures at KLIA are a joke compared to any airport in a first world nation. I suppose being a Muslim country with parts of it under Sharia law they thought they weren't susceptible to being targeted by Islamic terrorists.

[Tywais]

....I smell an insurance job....not that strange when you think about it....improbable yes,

impossible no. Never underestimate the power of supid people.

There are several news/blog reports putting that in the mix of possibilities.

[sunshine51]

I would still like to know if there is any corroborated evidence of this from reddit:

//removed//

"Furthermore, according to the US Embassy, at 2:43 in the morning, American military personnel stationed at U-Tapao

Airforce Base received an emergency SOS transmission from Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370; the captain of the

aircraft shouted that the cabin was disintegrating and the plane needed to make an emergency landing."

No positive confirms/deny's on this as it has made the rounds earlier in the search it seems.

If the aircraft was disintegrating and they were over water....where's the freakin debris?

So far in the GOT/SCS area there have been some hopeful sightings but as later efforts

proved...these sightings were of other stuff not related to any aircraft....at least that's what

we have all been told.

[webfact]

India joins search for MH370



KUALA LUMPUR: -- Ships of the Indian Navy that are on patrol in the Straits of Malacca are participating in the search and rescue (SAR) operations for the Malaysia Airlines (MAS) MH370 which went missing last Saturday, according to New Straits Times.

The Indian Navy’s satellite Rukmini or GSAT-7 has also been activated to pick up any clue that may lead investigators to the missing aircraft, Indian Media reported.

The SAR operations for the aircraft entered its fifth day today.

Over 40 ships and 26 aircraft from various countries have joined in the search for the missing plane, which mysteriously disappeared from the radar on March 8.

MAS Flight MH370, carrying 227 passengers, including five Indian nationalities, and 12 crew, went missing en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing about an hour after taking off from the KL International Airport at 12.41 am Saturday.

It should have landed in Beijing at 6.30 am the same day.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/india-joins-search-mh370/


-- Thai PBS 2014-03-12

[Hulkster]

The Straits of Malacca is one of the busiest shipping channels in the world. Even if the plane hit the water largely intact, it still would have broken up or the fuselage would have split and something would surely have risen to the surface after 4 days.

It's baffling. Maybe it crashed into the jungles of Aceh.

Either way, it seems like a hijacking is most probable explanation. If it's not the two Iranians and other people onboard, then Malaysia's inadequate security procedures is still to blame.

[laolover88]

I would still like to know if there is any corroborated evidence of this from reddit:

//removed//

"Furthermore, according to the US Embassy, at 2:43 in the morning, American military personnel stationed at U-Tapao

Airforce Base received an emergency SOS transmission from Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370; the captain of the

aircraft shouted that the cabin was disintegrating and the plane needed to make an emergency landing."

No positive confirms/deny's on this as it has made the rounds earlier in the search it seems.

If the aircraft was disintegrating and they were over water....where's the freakin debris?

So far in the GOT/SCS area there have been some hopeful sightings but as later efforts

proved...these sightings were of other stuff not related to any aircraft....at least that's what

we have all been told.

Agree!

[ignis]

Just asking

Is there any old remote disused military air bases in Asia ?

Was the captain ex air force ? maybe safer to land with little control at such a place, maybe sat somewhere with no communications waiting for help to arrive ?

[MrWorldwide]

Greetings from Vietnam y'all.....what a goose chase this is and it ain't over yet.

But here are a few acts some may not know...MAS has huge financial problems.

They even tried to do a deal with Air Asia but AA's director told MAS/MalGov't

no way. Insurance must be quite high for an aircaft and all it entails....I smell

an insurance job....not that strange when you think about it....improbable yes,

impossible no. Never underestimate the power of supid people.

An insurance job ? Given that MAS and Boeing will almost certainly find themselves in the middle of billion dollar lawsuits if there is any hint of negligence I don't know how a few hundred million in insurance would make it worthwhile to attract worldwide attention and endanger a very profitable tourist industry. No argument that there are stupid people involved here, and I don't blame Vietnam for scaling back its efforts, but to suggest that they deliberately set out to lose an aircraft seems OTT for mine.

[JesseFrank]

We're now in the fifth day of the search with no results.

In 1972 there was another crash that took 72 days to be discovered, with survivors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Andes_flight_disaster

[Oscar2]

I would still like to know if there is any corroborated evidence of this from reddit:

//removed foreign language//

"Furthermore, according to the US Embassy, at 2:43 in the morning, American military personnel stationed at U-Tapao

Airforce Base received an emergency SOS transmission from Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370; the captain of the

aircraft shouted that the cabin was disintegrating and the plane needed to make an emergency landing."

of course not. i believe that is from a conspiracy theory website. if true, the whole world would be reporting it.

[steve73]

I would still like to know if there is any corroborated evidence of this from reddit:

//removed foreign language//

"Furthermore, according to the US Embassy, at 2:43 in the morning, American military personnel stationed at U-Tapao

Airforce Base received an emergency SOS transmission from Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370; the captain of the

aircraft shouted that the cabin was disintegrating and the plane needed to make an emergency landing."

of course not. i believe that is from a conspiracy theory website. if true, the whole world would be reporting it.

Unlikely Thailand would be scaling back it's SAR activities if there was any substance to the rumour.

[laolover88]

Where's this story about cargo fire leading to cabin failure because "too many lithium batteries in cargo" come from?

Anyway, where's the cargo manifest? If it were true; what's "too many?" In what way could it be a hazard? Spontaneouscombustion?

And again where's the debris?

[Oscar2]

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/03/12/Missing-MH370-Thai-Navy-may-cease-hunt/

All the world is looking for the plane......but thai will suspend...

As they should. Malaysia seems to be hiding information and has allowed countries to waste a lot of time and resources searching for phantom planes in the Gulf of Thailand.

I agree. The countries involved in search in the wrong area should bill Malaysia for the

wasted fuel and time...... At this point the interesting question becomes what is

Malaysia trying to cover up ??

Just an incompetent, nepotistic, third world nation desperately trying to save face.

The lax security procedures at KLIA allowed what I assume to be Iranian hijackers to pass security with weapons in their possession, and Malaysian immigration completely dropped the ball in not detecting their fake passports.

Malaysia more or less lets anyone in their country no questions asked. Security procedures at KLIA are a joke compared to any airport in a first world nation. I suppose being a Muslim country with parts of it under Sharia law they thought they weren't susceptible to being targeted by Islamic terrorists.

unreal. it's already been clarified that the Iranians were not hijackers but young people seeking freedom in Europe. one going to Germany to be with his mother, and the other 19 year old going to the Netherlands I believe.

that's not to say that there could have been others on board that were up to no good.

[geriatrickid]

I have the impression that the Malaysian government is in way over its head. It doesn't have the experience or the skills pool to oversee a search effort of this magnitude and complexity. The Chinese government has not stepped up to the plate as well.

When the AF plane went down, it was the French BEA who organized an international search by aircraft and surface ships to look for signs of the plane and possible survivors. The Brazilian government bristled at this, but it co-operated because it knew the French agency was better suited to organize the search. And here we have the Malaysian government flailing about. The Chinese with their desire to be an international presence hasn't shown much leadership in respect to the 153 Chinese nationals on board that airplane. If a plane with 2/3 of its pax from the UK or USA or even Russia, I think we would be seeing a very different response.

[harrry]

I am sure the plane and passengers are all lost and the aircraft has crashed. There are a lot of coverups and backtracking but the situration is:

All comms lost quickly.

possible turn and descent noted.

Manual radar may have tracked low level across highly mountainous jungle terain. Maybe a paint near KualaPerlis.

Possibilities.

Crash into Gulf of Thailand.

if flight controls autopilot continued flight without pilot to near original destination. Unlikely as if comms are lost we can assume computers lost too and it is a fly by wire airline.

Glide distance probably not power 100km. With some power posibly 200 and possible crash over North eastern Malasia.

flight continued on reciprocal heading into andaman sea.

Dr No. took control.

I think that has covered all the bases but if someone has more to add please do so.

[sunshine51]

Greetings from Vietnam y'all.....what a goose chase this is and it ain't over yet.

But here are a few acts some may not know...MAS has huge financial problems.

They even tried to do a deal with Air Asia but AA's director told MAS/MalGov't

no way. Insurance must be quite high for an aircaft and all it entails....I smell

an insurance job....not that strange when you think about it....improbable yes,

impossible no. Never underestimate the power of supid people.

An insurance job ? Given that MAS and Boeing will almost certainly find themselves in the middle of billion dollar lawsuits if there is any hint of negligence I don't know how a few hundred million in insurance would make it worthwhile to attract worldwide attention and endanger a very profitable tourist industry. No argument that there are stupid people involved here, and I don't blame Vietnam for scaling back its efforts, but to suggest that they deliberately set out to lose an aircraft seems OTT for mine.

Yes it does seem very OTT....however....at this stage, with even a remote chance of being true,

I wouldn't be tossing any possibilities into the trash can....not yet anyway. And for an airline that's

not profitable, close to being bankrupt(apparently), a couple hundred million bucks may seem

like a good idea. Again...speculation...which is all anybody (we who know only what we've been

told) has at this moment.

[steve73]

Just asking

Is there any old remote disused military air bases in Asia ?

Was the captain ex air force ? maybe safer to land with little control at such a place, maybe sat somewhere with no communications waiting for help to arrive ?

Probably loads of old bases around, but how many of them would have had nav aids or lights to allow any attempt to land on a moonless (by then) night.

If the primary event was an accident/failure then an attempt to return to KLIA seems to me to be the most likely.. Does KLIA operate 24 hrs, or would it also have been dark.

However, what might MAF response be to an unidentified aircraft approaching KL (think petronas twin towers).... or any military shipping in the Malacca Straits if the a/c just happenned to be approaching and descending with no communications?

Would still expect to have found debris by now though...

Although the following link shows how small the debris field might be by comparing it to a 5cent coin in the Sydney Cricket Ground.

http://www.news.com.au/world/did-flight-mh370-change-course-search-area-for-missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-widens-as-terror-attack-becomes-unlikely/story-fndir2ev-1226851986645

[steve73]

Just found this excellent post (currently) #1788, by "Chill" at 13:35 (z-time I think) on the pprune site...

>>>

Finally got to the end of this thread...

...and wish I didn't have to read half of it (but good on the Mods for clearing some of it up).

Not highly relevant I feel but those who wondered about seat-belt sign off policy it's 10,000' on the way up unless wx/turb dictates otherwise. On odd occasion below 10 they maybe off on short sectors as a courtesy to the crew if it's deemed safe/practical to do so.

There's often good reporting from Australia and then there's over hyped trash and the "A Current Affair" expose was a sad example of the latter. Yes the lads were not in compliance with company policy (indeed Civil Regulations) but the portrayal was appalling - utter trollop as a ratings grab, but given the owners of Nine Network no surprises there (and how much did they "pay" the lass for her story I wonder?). Undoubtably it's all true as evidenced by the photos and in another era it was okay but now showed poor choice of action by the crew (especially to be photographed). The FO can't defend himself now and the Captain will surely answer to the Company once they find out - might even get dismissed due to the public nature of this report in the current situation (perhaps he should sue Nine). Bad choice of broadcasting. Suffice to say jump-seat policy in MAS is quite strict (as MAS has pointed out to the program) and smoking in the cockpit is strictly forbidden, but does still happen as I'm sure it does in other companies - the Captain calls the shots.

And who said it was a B767... It's one of MAS' B737-400 still in operation in 2011. Look closer before you post.

Now I'm as perplexed as everybody else as to how, where and why, I'm open to any rational idea at this stage. Admittedly favouring hijack with the passport issue earlier perhaps it's just back to something more mundane like a badly crippled aircraft in some way with a major electrical problem (still wouldn't rule out a bomb which crippled avionics but not their ability to fly). For a long time now people have been saying why on earth are they on the west side of the pennisula (when the first news of search efforts in the Straits of Malacca hit)... I have no reason to disbelieve if these guys thought they could get the aircraft back safely they would try their damned hardest to do so. Yes if there was a raging fire onboard they might have tried WMKN (TGG) but from FL350 there's a heck of a lot of height to lose in a short distance. Same for WMKC (KBR) and anyone who's been there it's not much of an airport in a populated area. WMKP is more logical for a rapid descent to land in a straight line - if their controls were compromised who wants to man-handle a 777 more than necessary except a turn to finals and we've have no idea if they could get the gear out for example so even PEN might only be a second choice. Bear in mind all these airports are closed for the night (PEN maybe not, but very low key) at this time so crashing on the field is a last resort action especially since there appears to be a lack of communication they've no way of announcing their imminent arrival. I wouldn't be surprised if the crew felt KUL was their best, safest option and on top of that (and for the life of me can't fathom why nobody posting here didn't say it earlier) there is a Lost Comms approach procedure for KUL which this crew would have known. If they were down to basic night VFR flying then how best to get to KUL and comply with the procedure... find the west coast, turn south and fly until you pass KL. They could line up for a straight in similar to a KIKAL2 for RWY14L or give ATC a chance to guess what they are doing (if they hadn't already) and head down towards the lights of Malacca to come back for RWY32R approximating a LAPIR2 arrival. Makes logical sense if they were comms crippled so why people think it's stupid for the authorities to be searching the West Coast is a bit rich. If the guys were trying to get back to KUL then it's sad they might have been within reach of KUL and dropped it in the drink for whatever reason.

Having said that, why they're searching so far north is a bit odd but perhaps they have their reasons due radar information at their disposal and who are we to say. Just my thoughts on the situation.

[JDGRUEN]

Where's this story about cargo fire leading to cabin failure because "too many lithium batteries in cargo" come from?

Anyway, where's the cargo manifest? If it were true; what's "too many?" In what way could it be a hazard? Spontaneouscombustion?

And again where's the debris?

Improper storage and maintenance of oxygen generators caused the Florida Crash at the link below. I don't know if these types of oxygen generators are still used or whether the proper lessons were learned from the Florida tragedy.

But this kind of thing can bring airliners down...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592

[bkkjames]

Where's this story about cargo fire leading to cabin failure because "too many lithium batteries in cargo" come from?

Anyway, where's the cargo manifest? If it were true; what's "too many?" In what way could it be a hazard? Spontaneouscombustion?

And again where's the debris?

Improper storage and maintenance of oxygen generators caused the Florida Crash at the link below. I don't know if these types of oxygen generators are still used or whether the proper lessons were learned from the Florida tragedy.

But this kind of thing can bring airliners down...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592

and make it invisible for 5 days?

[Richard W]

Yes - they would be the big boys - my post was in response to the assertion that military radar needs to cover the entire coastline and beyond. Logistically, I just dont know how realistic that is, but I'll leave it to the experts. A ten year old could tell you that they must have their own radar at Penang International, not to mention Phuket, but given that we seem to be focussed on things military I'll leave that alone for now.

Radar covering the whole of peninsular Malaya need not extend to the the point at which the last transponder signal was detected. Therefore it could be as simple as the Malaysians having an unaccounted for aircraft track and strongly suspecting it's the missing airliner.

[SurfRider]

.
Another apparent ear-witness report would focus the search back to the eastern coast of Malaysia - very close to the original flight path of the jet from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. The claim is that police reports were filed by several alleged witnesses. Wouldn't it make sense for investigators to be checking these reports?


MISSING MH370: Loud noise reported, believed linked to missing plane

MARANG: Eight villagers here lodged police reports today claiming that they had heard a loud noise last Saturday coming from the direction of Pulau Kapas and believed it was linked to the disappearance of a Malaysia Airlines (MAS) flight on that day.
All of them, from Kampung Pantai Seberang Marang, made the reports at the Marang district police headquarters at about 10.30 am.

One of them, Alias Salleh, 36, said he and seven fellow villagers were seated on a bench about 400 metres from the Marang beach at 1.20 am when they heard the noise, which sounded like the fan of a jet engine.

"The loud and frightening noise came from the north-east of Pulau Kapas and we ran in that direction to find out the cause. We looked around the Rhu Muda beach but did not see anything unusual," said the lorry driver.

Replying to a question, Alias said they lodged the police report so that it would be of help to the authorities who were trying to locate the missing MAS aircraft.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost-92.html#post8366873

[baneko]

Vietnam suspends air search for missing Malaysian jet

PHU QUOC, March 12, 2014 (AFP) - Vietnam said Wednesday it had suspended its air search for missing flight MH370 and scaled back a sea search as it waited for Malaysia to clarify the potential new direction of the multi-national hunt.

"We've decided to temporarily suspend some search and rescue activities, pending information from Malaysia," deputy minister of transport Pham Quy Tieu said, adding that boats were still searching the area, but on a smaller scale.

Malaysia has expanded the hunt for the missing Malaysian airliner into the Andaman Sea, hundreds of kilometres (miles) to the northwest of the original search radius, an official said Wednesday.

But it has denied a report that the plane with 239 people on board had been detected far from its planned flight path.

A Malaysian newspaper said radar had last detected the plane over the Strait of Malacca off western Malaysia.

"We've asked Malaysian authorities twice, but so far they have not replied to us," Tieu said, when asked about the report.

"We informed Malaysia on the day we lost contact with the flight that we noticed the flight turned back west but Malaysia did not respond," he added.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2014-03-12

Vietnam asking Malaysia twice for information with no reply is unacceptable ignorance from the Malaysian government.

Vietnam have every right to scale down their search considering the time and resources they have been using.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[balo]

Are there any remote parts over land in Malaysia the plane could have went down without anyone noticing it ? Or maybe even further , over land in Sumatra or Andaman islands....

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JDGRUEN]

Where's this story about cargo fire leading to cabin failure because "too many lithium batteries in cargo" come from?

Anyway, where's the cargo manifest? If it were true; what's "too many?" In what way could it be a hazard? Spontaneouscombustion?

And again where's the debris?

Improper storage and maintenance of oxygen generators caused the Florida Crash at the link below. I don't know if these types of oxygen generators are still used or whether the proper lessons were learned from the Florida tragedy.

But this kind of thing can bring airliners down...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592

and make it invisible for 5 days?

Well - of course not ... but that was not the point of my info post.

[steve73]

.

Another apparent ear-witness report would focus the search back to the eastern coast of Malaysia - very close to the original flight path of the jet from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. The claim is that police reports were filed by several alleged witnesses. Wouldn't it make sense for investigators to be checking these reports?

MISSING MH370: Loud noise reported, believed linked to missing plane

MARANG: Eight villagers here lodged police reports today claiming that they had heard a loud noise last Saturday coming from the direction of Pulau Kapas and believed it was linked to the disappearance of a Malaysia Airlines (MAS) flight on that day.

All of them, from Kampung Pantai Seberang Marang, made the reports at the Marang district police headquarters at about 10.30 am.

One of them, Alias Salleh, 36, said he and seven fellow villagers were seated on a bench about 400 metres from the Marang beach at 1.20 am when they heard the noise, which sounded like the fan of a jet engine.

"The loud and frightening noise came from the north-east of Pulau Kapas and we ran in that direction to find out the cause. We looked around the Rhu Muda beach but did not see anything unusual," said the lorry driver.

Replying to a question, Alias said they lodged the police report so that it would be of help to the authorities who were trying to locate the missing MAS aircraft.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost-92.html#post8366873

Marang Malaysia.jpg

This is about 20 miles south of Gong Kedak (which is the closest runway to where they lost comms - and is oriented in the correct direction for an attempted landing). They could have been trying to get there, and missed due to flying without comms or navaids.

The other visual report I recall was from Barchok, which is about 15 miles north of that runway.

Would it be feasible to have two reports this far apart?

This region appears (from google maps) to be well populated... They need to get out and ask a few more of the locals there....

[Chicog]

As noted before , wreckage debris of AF447 was found within 5 days, searching an area

infinitely larger than the search area for this plane.

I don't have it handy, but the Guardian published a map superimposing the AF search grid over the MH one, and it's completely opposite to what you say.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Chicog

[Chicog]

Where's this story about cargo fire leading to cabin failure because "too many lithium batteries in cargo" come from?

Anyway, where's the cargo manifest? If it were true; what's "too many?" In what way could it be a hazard? Spontaneouscombustion?

And again where's the debris?

Improper storage and maintenance of oxygen generators caused the Florida Crash at the link below. I don't know if these types of oxygen generators are still used or whether the proper lessons were learned from the Florida tragedy.

But this kind of thing can bring airliners down...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592

Valujet issued maydays before it went down. The fire entered the passenger cabin before the cockpit. They were trying to find somewhere to land when either the crew were overcome by the smoke or the fire disabled all flight controls.

[JDGRUEN]

Where's this story about cargo fire leading to cabin failure because "too many lithium batteries in cargo" come from?

Anyway, where's the cargo manifest? If it were true; what's "too many?" In what way could it be a hazard? Spontaneouscombustion?

And again where's the debris?

Improper storage and maintenance of oxygen generators caused the Florida Crash at the link below. I don't know if these types of oxygen generators are still used or whether the proper lessons were learned from the Florida tragedy.

But this kind of thing can bring airliners down...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592

Valujet issued maydays before it went down. The fire entered the passenger cabin before the cockpit. They were trying to find somewhere to land when either the crew were overcome by the smoke or the fire disabled all flight controls.

Good points ... my only point was that improper storage and/or maintenance of oxygen generators can bring large airliners down...

[sunshine51]

Just picked up this link off the pprune website.
Some previous monkey business in the cockpit perhaps?
If this has been posted earlier....apols.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/03/11/19/08/woman-remembers-cockpit-fun-with-missing-pilot