Passport theft prompts Thai rethink on new passport database

[evadgib]

Thai authorities struggle to track thousands of lost or stolen passports each year

Lost my passport also once, had a hard time to convince the local police to make a report for me. So actually I was "struggling", I doubt the police report ever left that station. And I don't believe I am the only case.

The issuing authority at home would flag it up when you applied for a replacement.

Edited March 10, 2014 by evadgib

[aguy30]

I have not seen an explanation of how those two men departed Thailand and arrived in Malaysia.

It was reported that there wasn't any record of their entry into Malaysia.

If that is correct, how were they able to clear immigration in Malaysia without an entry stamp?

Did they use other passports, perhaps their own to depart Thailand?

Were their tickets from KL or with a transfer from Bangkok?

Edited March 10, 2014 by aguy30

[RubbaJohnny]

Oh the irony

A state full of stolen passports,forged passports even 'real' Kula Lumpur Embassy fake visas.

Of course this a nation so sure that it is the Hub it can issue passports to wanted criminals.

To say as one poster honestly expressed the authorities turn .

A blind eye some more cynical have outrageously suggested that either the enforcement is useless or the drugs,girls,ganja,ivory,yabba,rental scams ,people trafficking,endangered speicies trafficking and a few I forgot casinos gems may in fact be Bangkok's finest going undercover and POSING as ruthless mercenary gangs to better understand the falang devils.The former convictland repsaid as good as admits it.It may just be Chinese Indian Iranian and muslim gangs who are overstaying their welcome in the land of the free.

[lemonjelly]

I once found a US passport on the side of a path in BKK (Bang Lampu)... I called the US Embassy with the info and offered to hand the passport in to the police....... the embassy pleaded with me not to, but rather hang on to it and give it to the embassy personally.......they hinted why....... but i won't say it here ........

[Cricketnut]

I once found a US passport on the side of a path in BKK (Bang Lampu)... I called the US Embassy with the info and offered to hand the passport in to the police....... the embassy pleaded with me not to, but rather hang on to it and give it to the embassy personally.......they hinted why....... but i won't say it here ........

55555!

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[IBoldnewguy]

Anyone who entrusts someone else such as a hotel or bike/car rental company in Thailand to hold their passport deserves to lost it.

The odds are the rental company company will not return a passport if there is a dispute.

All that is required by law is a copy of your passport. If not given back as in my case in Laos back in 2000, I simply went to the police who promptly visited the rental agency where I had rented a motorbike for a months tour of the country and that was that. Passport back in hand within literally 5 minutes. If one is stupid enough to handover your passport as I was all those years ago, and it is not returned go straight to the TP and or RTP straight away and get it sorted. Especially now IMO the TP and RTP will move quite quickly on it. Sorry to the possible cynics who will hit this post, but we were all in our early and naive 20s at one point in life and s.it happens occasionally. My dealings with the the RTP and TP have been great over the years, just get your licence and status in the country sorted, learn some simple PsandQs and they are a great bunch to bump into from time to time..

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

What this article/thread is about are lost passports that may have (or not) contributed to a situation that cost 236 mostly innocent lives.

If one would happen to get caught up in the "finger finger pointing - scapegoating - saving face" part of this process: "We were all in our early and naive 20s at one point in life and s.it happens occasionally." Would not be an acceptable excuse or defense, nor would it save one from the costs of ironing out the issue.

[Cricketnut]

Anyone who entrusts someone else such as a hotel or bike/car rental company in Thailand to hold their passport deserves to lost it.

The odds are the rental company company will not return a passport if there is a dispute.

All that is required by law is a copy of your passport. If not given back as in my case in Laos back in 2000, I simply went to the police who promptly visited the rental agency where I had rented a motorbike for a months tour of the country and that was that. Passport back in hand within literally 5 minutes. If one is stupid enough to handover your passport as I was all those years ago, and it is not returned go straight to the TP and or RTP straight away and get it sorted. Especially now IMO the TP and RTP will move quite quickly on it. Sorry to the possible cynics who will hit this post, but we were all in our early and naive 20s at one point in life and s.it happens occasionally. My dealings with the the RTP and TP have been great over the years, just get your licence and status in the country sorted, learn some simple PsandQs and they are a great bunch to bump into from time to time..

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

What this article/thread is about are lost passports that may have (or not) contributed to a situation that cost 236 mostly innocent lives.

If one would happen to get caught up in the "finger finger pointing - scapegoating - saving face" part of this process: "We were all in our early and naive 20s at one point in life and s.it happens occasionally." Would not be an acceptable excuse or defense, nor would it save one from the costs of ironing out the issue.

It was not implied. Read the context of my post again. Next.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[IBoldnewguy]

Anyone who entrusts someone else such as a hotel or bike/car rental company in Thailand to hold their passport deserves to lost it.

The odds are the rental company company will not return a passport if there is a dispute.

All that is required by law is a copy of your passport. If not given back as in my case in Laos back in 2000, I simply went to the police who promptly visited the rental agency where I had rented a motorbike for a months tour of the country and that was that. Passport back in hand within literally 5 minutes. If one is stupid enough to handover your passport as I was all those years ago, and it is not returned go straight to the TP and or RTP straight away and get it sorted. Especially now IMO the TP and RTP will move quite quickly on it. Sorry to the possible cynics who will hit this post, but we were all in our early and naive 20s at one point in life and s.it happens occasionally. My dealings with the the RTP and TP have been great over the years, just get your licence and status in the country sorted, learn some simple PsandQs and they are a great bunch to bump into from time to time..

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

What this article/thread is about are lost passports that may have (or not) contributed to a situation that cost 236 mostly innocent lives.

If one would happen to get caught up in the "finger finger pointing - scapegoating - saving face" part of this process: "We were all in our early and naive 20s at one point in life and s.it happens occasionally." Would not be an acceptable excuse or defense, nor would it save one from the costs of ironing out the issue.

It was not implied. Read the context of my post again. Next.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It is a direct quote from what you wrote - maybe you should read your post again. And if what you wrote is not what you meant then you should not be so quick with the post button. Next....

[paz]

I have not seen an explanation of how those two men departed Thailand and arrived in Malaysia.

It was reported that there wasn't any record of their entry into Malaysia.

If that is correct, how were they able to clear immigration in Malaysia without an entry stamp?

Did they use other passports, perhaps their own to depart Thailand?

Were their tickets from KL or with a transfer from Bangkok?

Entry stamps are easy to counterfeit, or they may even entered Malasya with counterfeit Thai exit stamps.

[pokerspiv]

Hotel make copies of passports, I have never had any hotel in Thailand hold my passport, maybe time to make it illegal for anyone to hold a passport as security.

It has been always been illegal for anyone to hold a passport as security.

[speedtripler]

No Thai authority has any idea how to manage passport theft in Thailand...I doubt many reported thefts go further than the local cop shop.

As to follow up and investigation....never happens to my knowledge...I don't remember them ever returning a lost passport......until something such as the Malaysian plane mystery.....once the international agencies start to get involved, as they now have, then the back pedalling starts....simply smearing more egg on Thai faces!

Well considering the Passports were on the Interpol stolen list it's obvious that it does go further than the local cop shop

Thailand's Police/Government/Immigration are not at fault here as the Passports theft was on the Interpol database

But hey let's not let the facts get in the way of a good old bit of Thai Bashing

folks... It was Malaysian immigration who let this Terrible event escalate. They allowed stolen passports with their holders nothing like the original holders as Malaysian authority said. So not just Thai fault here

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

it could have been squashed by the thais who let them go malaysia in the first place ...........or sold them the tickets ...........or immigration on the way out with passports stolen up to two years ago .....assume they both paid 20,000thb at swampy and no questions asked ......?

both thailand and malaysia have both dropped the ball on this one ,gross negligence on both sides ......

[Skint]

People lose passports because they are daft.

[JAG]

Caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has called her Malaysian counterpart Najib Razak to express condolences over the missing Malaysian flight.

This statement worries me more than the vacuous balance of the article.

Would you rather she had rung him up and laughed at him?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[aguy30]

I have not seen an explanation of how those two men departed Thailand and arrived in Malaysia.

It was reported that there wasn't any record of their entry into Malaysia.

If that is correct, how were they able to clear immigration in Malaysia without an entry stamp?

Did they use other passports, perhaps their own to depart Thailand?

Were their tickets from KL or with a transfer from Bangkok?

Entry stamps are easy to counterfeit, or they may even entered Malasya with counterfeit Thai exit stamps.

It is much more complicated than a rubber stamp. There is the complication with Immigration recording entry and exit info on their computers. Also arrival and departure cards with a serial number. How did they exit Thailand? The passports were reported as stolen in Thailand so probably were on the Thai computer system. Malaysia doesn't have any record of entry, so how did they get in?

[noitom]

Thais should be all over this case. They should be first interrogating the Thai travel agent in Pattaya where the tickets were purchased. Second, they should be interrogating the immigration officers at the Malaysian border checkpoint where those two passports and individuals entered. Or, they should be in an all out launch of investigation in to any visa service company crossing these two passports for a "visa run."

The passengers purchased their tickets in Pattaya, but Thais make no mention of tracking this through the Thai travel agent. Thai police should be vigorously investigating this from the point of view of a network or ring of fraudulently purchased tickets and stolen passports in Thailand. The Thai travel agent may have known that the passports were fraudulent and booked them anyway for a "fee" or as part of the network of criminals. The Thai police should be up to their eyeballs in this investigation.

It's a shame that the Thai press is not leading the charge to make inquiries about who , what, where, when, and how on the Thai side.

[noitom]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"Interpol's stolen and lost travel documents (SLTD) database contains 40 million records from 167 countries but its secretary general, Ronald Noble, says not enough countries are using it.

"The bad news is that, despite being incredibly cost effective and deployable to virtually anywhere in the world, only a handful of countries are systematically using SLTD to screen travelers," Noble told a conference last month."

Problem as I see it is it being misused, "an American company receiving a brown envelope containing list of countries visited by executives and sales teem of their European competitors"

Could be the same Thai travel agent in Pattaya who sold the fraudulent tickets who would be most likely to tap the database and provide the brown envelope for a "fee."

[Basil B]

I have not seen an explanation of how those two men departed Thailand and arrived in Malaysia.

It was reported that there wasn't any record of their entry into Malaysia.

If that is correct, how were they able to clear immigration in Malaysia without an entry stamp?

Did they use other passports, perhaps their own to depart Thailand?

Were their tickets from KL or with a transfer from Bangkok?

Entry stamps are easy to counterfeit, or they may even entered Malasya with counterfeit Thai exit stamps.

It is much more complicated than a rubber stamp. There is the complication with Immigration recording entry and exit info on their computers. Also arrival and departure cards with a serial number. How did they exit Thailand? The passports were reported as stolen in Thailand so probably were on the Thai computer system. Malaysia doesn't have any record of entry, so how did they get in?

I seem to remember the boarder run where your passport was taken to the boarder for you, problem was some enterprising Thai decided it was easier to make his own stamps...

[speedtripler]

I have not seen an explanation of how those two men departed Thailand and arrived in Malaysia.

It was reported that there wasn't any record of their entry into Malaysia.

If that is correct, how were they able to clear immigration in Malaysia without an entry stamp?

Did they use other passports, perhaps their own to depart Thailand?

Were their tickets from KL or with a transfer from Bangkok?

Entry stamps are easy to counterfeit, or they may even entered Malasya with counterfeit Thai exit stamps.

It is much more complicated than a rubber stamp. There is the complication with Immigration recording entry and exit info on their computers. Also arrival and departure cards with a serial number. How did they exit Thailand? The passports were reported as stolen in Thailand so probably were on the Thai computer system. Malaysia doesn't have any record of entry, so how did they get in?

the tickets were bought less than 24 hrs before the flight departure time in pattaya ,i dont think they could have made the journey to kuala lumpar airport in a van ,more likely they flew there if the posted times are correct

either on the stolen passposts or their own ones

[JRSoul]

Entry stamps are easy to counterfeit, or they may even entered Malasya with counterfeit Thai exit stamps.

It is much more complicated than a rubber stamp. There is the complication with Immigration recording entry and exit info on their computers. Also arrival and departure cards with a serial number. How did they exit Thailand? The passports were reported as stolen in Thailand so probably were on the Thai computer system. Malaysia doesn't have any record of entry, so how did they get in?

At Sadao border crossing there are people milling about and wandering around everywhere. It is so easy to walk through without having documents checked that a small brass band in full song could probably do it. On one occasion when returning, I walked through to use the toilets, then back out to join the queue.

Malaysia does only a cursory look at Thai exit stamp to check the correct date. A fake exit stamp would do the trick.

[Thai at Heart]

I have not seen an explanation of how those two men departed Thailand and arrived in Malaysia.

It was reported that there wasn't any record of their entry into Malaysia.

If that is correct, how were they able to clear immigration in Malaysia without an entry stamp?

Did they use other passports, perhaps their own to depart Thailand?

Were their tickets from KL or with a transfer from Bangkok?

Entry stamps are easy to counterfeit, or they may even entered Malasya with counterfeit Thai exit stamps.

It is much more complicated than a rubber stamp. There is the complication with Immigration recording entry and exit info on their computers. Also arrival and departure cards with a serial number. How did they exit Thailand? The passports were reported as stolen in Thailand so probably were on the Thai computer system. Malaysia doesn't have any record of entry, so how did they get in?

All they need to counterfeit is the entry stamp into Malaysia. But doesnt Malaysia have some sort of an entry card which is allocated against the passport.

For that to tally something would have needed to be put into the Malay immigration computer. Unless they flew from thailand to kl. In which case the cancelled passport number should have flagged up on the thai immigration computer.

Either way, thai nor Malay immigration are not unbribeable. Would anyone in kl not notice that there wasn't an exit stamp from thailand.

[speedtripler]

I have not seen an explanation of how those two men departed Thailand and arrived in Malaysia.

It was reported that there wasn't any record of their entry into Malaysia.

If that is correct, how were they able to clear immigration in Malaysia without an entry stamp?

Did they use other passports, perhaps their own to depart Thailand?

Were their tickets from KL or with a transfer from Bangkok?

Entry stamps are easy to counterfeit, or they may even entered Malasya with counterfeit Thai exit stamps.

It is much more complicated than a rubber stamp. There is the complication with Immigration recording entry and exit info on their computers. Also arrival and departure cards with a serial number. How did they exit Thailand? The passports were reported as stolen in Thailand so probably were on the Thai computer system. Malaysia doesn't have any record of entry, so how did they get in?

All they need to counterfeit is the entry stamp into Malaysia. But doesnt Malaysia have some sort of an entry card which is allocated against the passport.

For that to tally something would have needed to be put into the Malay immigration computer. Unless they flew from thailand to kl. In which case the cancelled passport number should have flagged up on the thai immigration computer.

Either way, thai nor Malay immigration are not unbribeable. Would anyone in kl not notice that there wasn't an exit stamp from thailand.

i got grilled in singapore for 5 min by some fat lady because i was travelling without luggage on a day trip to the thai embassy

(i only had to exit thailand and come back in to get a new visa but she thought that was suspicious and these guys can get away with something like this )

its beyond a joke

[Noi657]

Wait for it..... Don't tell me the government are going to have an investigation? In the last three months Thailand has announced more investigations than the f.b.i

[Greer]

A lot of people here are saying that it should be illegal to hold a passport as security.. but, it IS illegal to do so.

A passport does NOT belong to the holder of the passport, it belongs to the issuing government.

For example a UK passport is the property of Her Majesties government, and therefore it is an offence against the government of the United Kingdom for anyone other than an immigration official appropriately authorised, to hold onto someones passport.

Here is a quotation from the official Australian Passports office website regarding passport security :

"Do not tamper with, or alter your passport in any way. It is an offence under the Australian Passports Act 2005.

Your passport remains the property of the Australian Government.

Your passport must not be sold or given away. Nor should it be used as security for a private debt. You must keep your passport in a safe place."

In theory (and I do stress the "theory" part) it is illegal for anyone other than a Thai citizen not to carry their passport at all times when in Thailand - therefore, under the letter of Thai law - it MUST be illegal for anyone other than the person named as the holder of the passport to retain it, as the holder must have it available at all times.

I know that in practice many/most expats just keep a photocopy of the ID page, or simply make sure they carry a Thai drivers license as ID, but the letter of the law - if pressed to its full extent - is quite clear - so that makes it equally clear that it is illegal to hold it as security.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Greer

[EyesWideOpen]

Hotel make copies of passports, I have never had any hotel in Thailand hold my passport, maybe time to make it illegal for anyone to hold a passport as security.

Thai law requires you to have your passport with you at all times. So any Thai business that asks

to keep your passport as security is making you break the law , so they are a party to a crime...

[Thai at Heart]

I am reading that a copy of a passport can and should only be used by the holder should their passport be lost.

Thus using it as a voluntary id is a misuse.

This endless copying and storage is a dangerous thing. I was once in a garage filling out paperwork and the note paper they were using was pads full of recycled copies of passports.

It makes it too easy to clone the passport.

[aguy30]

I have not seen an explanation of how those two men departed Thailand and arrived in Malaysia.

It was reported that there wasn't any record of their entry into Malaysia.

If that is correct, how were they able to clear immigration in Malaysia without an entry stamp?

Did they use other passports, perhaps their own to depart Thailand?

Were their tickets from KL or with a transfer from Bangkok?

Entry stamps are easy to counterfeit, or they may even entered Malasya with counterfeit Thai exit stamps.

It is much more complicated than a rubber stamp. There is the complication with Immigration recording entry and exit info on their computers. Also arrival and departure cards with a serial number. How did they exit Thailand? The passports were reported as stolen in Thailand so probably were on the Thai computer system. Malaysia doesn't have any record of entry, so how did they get in?

I seem to remember the boarder run where your passport was taken to the boarder for you, problem was some enterprising Thai decided it was easier to make his own stamps

Some things have changed. This is 2014 not the 20th century. It is good to have a memory that goes way back to past times but that isn't how it is done today.

[JRSoul]

I am reading that a copy of a passport can and should only be used by the holder should their passport be lost.

Thus using it as a voluntary id is a misuse.

This endless copying and storage is a dangerous thing. I was once in a garage filling out paperwork and the note paper they were using was pads full of recycled copies of passports.

It makes it too easy to clone the passport.

Perhaps, but who would go to the trouble and expense to clone a passport when it is easier to steal one (the topic at hand)?

Re your earlier post, it is so much easier to enter Malaysia "legally" with a fake Thai exit stamp, why would anybody bother to attempt tampering with the Malaysian immigration system?

[Thai at Heart]

I am reading that a copy of a passport can and should only be used by the holder should their passport be lost.

Thus using it as a voluntary id is a misuse.

This endless copying and storage is a dangerous thing. I was once in a garage filling out paperwork and the note paper they were using was pads full of recycled copies of passports.

It makes it too easy to clone the passport.

Perhaps, but who would go to the trouble and expense to clone a passport when it is easier to steal one (the topic at hand)?

Re your earlier post, it is so much easier to enter Malaysia "legally" with a fake Thai exit stamp, why would anybody bother to attempt tampering with the Malaysian immigration system?

It might be easier to transit it kl?

I don't know. Is the story that these guys exited Malay immigration in the airport. To do so they would need a valid arrival stamp. Can be faked I guess. But then it would need a valid arrival card to go along with it, and thus an entry into the Malay system.

Which is easier to corrupt? Thai or Malay immigration if you are dealing with a passport you bought from a passport smuggling ring in Thailand. Can u fly direct from u tapao and phuket to kl airport right?

If I do that, there is no check in kl. I doubt very much that the Malays even bother to look at the thai exit stamp. They have arrivals from all.over the place.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[JRSoul]

I am reading that a copy of a passport can and should only be used by the holder should their passport be lost.

Thus using it as a voluntary id is a misuse.

This endless copying and storage is a dangerous thing. I was once in a garage filling out paperwork and the note paper they were using was pads full of recycled copies of passports.

It makes it too easy to clone the passport.

Perhaps, but who would go to the trouble and expense to clone a passport when it is easier to steal one (the topic at hand)?

Re your earlier post, it is so much easier to enter Malaysia "legally" with a fake Thai exit stamp, why would anybody bother to attempt tampering with the Malaysian immigration system?

It might be easier to transit it kl?

I don't know. Is the story that these guys exited Malay immigration in the airport. To do so they would need a valid arrival stamp. Can be faked I guess. But then it would need a valid arrival card to go along with it, and thus an entry into the Malay system.

Which is easier to corrupt? Thai or Malay immigration if you are dealing with a passport you bought from a passport smuggling ring in Thailand. Can u fly direct from u tapao and phuket to kl airport right?

If I do that, there is no check in kl. I doubt very much that the Malays even bother to look at the thai exit stamp. They have arrivals from all.over the place.

You don't have to corrupt either. Walk through Sadao immigration ignoring the booth, with a faked exit stamp and enter Malaysia "legally".

Their is nothing difficult to copy on the exit stamp, and Malaysian immigration aren't really interested as long as it has the current date. You are then in the Malaysian system with no problems exiting a day or 2 later.

[Thai at Heart]

I am reading that a copy of a passport can and should only be used by the holder should their passport be lost.

Thus using it as a voluntary id is a misuse.

This endless copying and storage is a dangerous thing. I was once in a garage filling out paperwork and the note paper they were using was pads full of recycled copies of passports.

It makes it too easy to clone the passport.

Perhaps, but who would go to the trouble and expense to clone a passport when it is easier to steal one (the topic at hand)?

Re your earlier post, it is so much easier to enter Malaysia "legally" with a fake Thai exit stamp, why would anybody bother to attempt tampering with the Malaysian immigration system?

It might be easier to transit it kl?

I don't know. Is the story that these guys exited Malay immigration in the airport. To do so they would need a valid arrival stamp. Can be faked I guess. But then it would need a valid arrival card to go along with it, and thus an entry into the Malay system.

Which is easier to corrupt? Thai or Malay immigration if you are dealing with a passport you bought from a passport smuggling ring in Thailand. Can u fly direct from u tapao and phuket to kl airport right?

If I do that, there is no check in kl. I doubt very much that the Malays even bother to look at the thai exit stamp. They have arrivals from all.over the place.

You don't have to corrupt either. Walk through Sadao immigration ignoring the booth, with a faked exit stamp and enter Malaysia "legally".

Their is nothing difficult to copy on the exit stamp, and Malaysian immigration aren't really interested as long as it has the current date. You are then in the Malaysian system with no problems exiting a day or 2 later.

Possible. In fact. Maybe they all had valid visas for coming to Thailand and picked up and used the passport once in Malaysia.

No need for any fake visas. The Malays aren't going to look to find the exit stamp on a passport with many exit stamps. My current passport has maybe 40 exit stamps for thailand.