What is the best visa to apply for managing a guesthouse in Chiang Mai?

[isnakebite]

Hello to all from a first time poster, long time reader.

I’m 39 and have decided to buy and manage a guest house in Chiang Mai. I am looking to get the best visa that will allow me to stay for a long period of time and also look at what I will need to do to get a renewal or extension.

I have written to 3 supposedly “reputable” companies in Thailand to help. Only 1 wrote back but with irrelevant information concerning an unasked question. I have therefore spent countless hours reading this forum and other internet pages as it looks like I will have to do this on my own and I hope someone can help clarify a few things and offer some advice. In advance I thank you for your time reading.

I intend to be the main shareholder with 49% of a Thai registered company (as yet the company is not created) that will own the guesthouse. My Thai friend whose name I intend to have the company registered with will be one of the staff working for me and to begin with she will need the confidence that I will be available to stay for the long run. I don’t intend to get paid in a salary but intend to take withdrawals as down payment towards my investment (with interest) in the company.

On my visit to Thailand last December it was suggested to me that I should apply for a multi entry business visa in the UK. I understand that this will permit me multiple visits to Thailand within a year, 90 days at a time and that I must leave Thailand every 90 days. Therefore there is a cost involved to do visa runs.

However, I have read elsewhere that I don’t have to do visa runs and pay any money but I instead I have to report every 90 days to an immigration office for another 90 days extension. Which is it? And do I have to pay any money when I have to report or not?

Regarding the reporting in Chiang Mai. Do you have to report on the 90^th day and not any earlier? From reading this forum a booking for a meeting can be done online but the suggestion is that this is subject to abuse and all the bookings are taken months ahead. If there are no bookings available does this mean it is not possible to just visit the office on the 90^th day and ask to be seen?

With the information I’ve provided is the aforementioned visa the best option for me?

Renewing a visa also appears to be tricky. If I am I reading correctly for a renewal of any non immigrant visa I would need 800,000THB or receive 65,000THB per month. Unfortunately I wouldn’t have that money available and would probably have to borrow from family to make it appear that I do, then give it back after the renewal.

Now I suspect I will have to continue to do this until I have 800,000. Will this cause a problem in the long run as I am stating that I am able to have the 800,000 whenever I want it but never continuously in ownership of 800,000?

I can’t get a work permit, because to begin with I don’t envisage employing 4 Thais and the business won’t have 2millionTHB.

It has been suggested that I should consider an education visa, however I doubt there will be any time for me to study whilst I’ll be busy with the guesthouse.

Long post, I know so again many thanks in advance for time reading and if anyone can offer any clarification and advice

Andrew

[TerryLH]

You will need not only a visa, but a work permit as well.

800k / 65k is need for extensions of a visa for retirement. You don't qualify - by age - so not an option. You wouldn't be able to get a work permit with that, anyway.

Ed visa also probably no good. No work permit.

What you will need will be a Non B Visa. Better if you can get a multi entry visa. With that you would be able to enter Thailand for a year - for 90 days on each entry. You can get about 15 months out of that by re-entering just before the visa expires.

With this you might/should be able to get a work permit, if you meet the Labor Office requirements.

With info you posted you won't have to do 90 day reporting at immigration or be eligible for extensions.

Good luck.

[ubonjoe]

You will not be able to get a non immigrant B visa until you have the company set-up and have a work permit application made and have a letter of approval for it. Then you would need to go to a nearby embassy or consulate to get a single entry B visa to have the work permit issued.

You will not be able to get an extension of stay for at least one year because it requires a full years tax records to get it. You also would have to meet the minimum salary requirement of 50K baht and 4 Thai employees.

Once you have the work permit you could get a multiple entry non-b visa in Penang with all the required documents.

I suggest you get a 2 entry tourist visa to start with to give you enough time to get everything done. You can apply for the work permit with a tourist visa.

[JeremyBowskill]

If you don't have 800k as you mentioned (regardless of the visa bit) then you really should re think this quite frankly liable to fail plan. The odds of making a living from such a business are not favorable and become dramatically worse if you are underfunded in a venture. I assume (maybe wrongly) you have met a woman and are looking for a way to extend your stay? This option will do that, but only until you run out of cash, which is liable to be quite quickly.

You do realize high season is all but done apart from a couple weeks around sonkran? You will need to keep the sinking beast floating until at least November this year before any real custom will turn up (assuming governments are not shooting each other). Seriously don't do it.

Edited March 11, 2014 by JeremyBowskill

[umbanda]

I can see that you got a lot of false information, and if you use a dishonest visa or business service you may waste your money.

My advice, go to the Thai immigration office with your friend and ask about, and get the right information for you to decide the best and safe option. Do not spend all your money. You may have to buy the business in your Thai friend's name. If, after thinking about all the risk and consequences, the best option will be getting married and get a marriage extension, you also will need to keep 400000THB on your bank account to get the marriage extension, until you can prove enough income.

About the option of companies to register for your business, look at the DBD web site, or go to a local DBD office for information.

At your age, only a WP will keep you in the country without visa runs.

Good luck.

Edited March 11, 2014 by umbanda

[crazygreg44]

fair warnings . . and, to speak the truth, you firstly cannot BUY a guesthouse, only your thai "partner" can (when money rules the "partner" suddenly turns foe), and secondly, you are not allowed to run it as the manager (only "your" company can employ yourself at the mentioned minimum salary all of which will be liable to taxation) and then your work permit will restrict your activities to hang around with your guests, as all other jobs can be done by Thais (a foreigner cannot work in a profession a Thai can perform in).

It is quite different when someone is married to a Thai wife, she can buy (rent aside, there is no profit to be made if you are up to rent it!!) the guesthouse and the plot the remises are sitting on and runs the place by herself. She does not have to meet the criteria for employment of staff (however must follow labour laws which can be quite surprising once you stick your nose deeper into the paragraphs, like when you fire staff = you will have to keep paying the wage for some time after etc etc) . You can act as the helping hand of your wife in no other means but that of an interpreter between guests, and never ever dare to empty the ashtrays or shift some chairs, as this is a violation of the law and you are liable to getting arrested, fined and deported.

For someone as young as you, not married, not having deeper roots here in Thailand, not having experience in running a guesthouse and not being familar with the rules, the locals, the possible and impossible revenues, such a plan is bound to fail. Mainly because you like feel being the boss, but the place will soon do things quite different from what you want to happen. Tens-of-thousands of already failed foreigners can sing you the song.

I therefore join the hooters of a sound warning here in this thread.

[Metapod]

wonder how many people who were against people using eD visa to stay in Thailand will support a guy trying to abuse the visa here to buy and run a company.

[jocko]

fair warnings . . and, to speak the truth, you firstly cannot BUY a guesthouse, only your thai "partner" can (when money rules the "partner" suddenly turns foe), and secondly, you are not allowed to run it as the manager (only "your" company can employ yourself at the mentioned minimum salary all of which will be liable to taxation) and then your work permit will restrict your activities to hang around with your guests, as all other jobs can be done by Thais (a foreigner cannot work in a profession a Thai can perform in).

It is quite different when someone is married to a Thai wife, she can buy (rent aside, there is no profit to be made if you are up to rent it!!) the guesthouse and the plot the remises are sitting on and runs the place by herself. She does not have to meet the criteria for employment of staff (however must follow labour laws which can be quite surprising once you stick your nose deeper into the paragraphs, like when you fire staff = you will have to keep paying the wage for some time after etc etc) . You can act as the helping hand of your wife in no other means but that of an interpreter between guests, and never ever dare to empty the ashtrays or shift some chairs, as this is a violation of the law and you are liable to getting arrested, fined and deported.

For someone as young as you, not married, not having deeper roots here in Thailand, not having experience in running a guesthouse and not being familar with the rules, the locals, the possible and impossible revenues, such a plan is bound to fail. Mainly because you like feel being the boss, but the place will soon do things quite different from what you want to happen. Tens-of-thousands of already failed foreigners can sing you the song.

I therefore join the hooters of a sound warning here in this thread.

i tried the guesthouse plan in Patong three years of hard work for nothing keep your money in the bank.

Unless you know what you are doing the bussiness is conducted in Thai and you have very little input and the Thais know best.

[swissie]

OP can not possibly be a " long time reader" of TV (at least not the Visa/WP forum.)

Post # 6 sums it all up and leaving no open questions.

Cheers

[isnakebite]

Thank you all for the early responses. There’s a fair amount of information, guidance and advice I need to digest. I feel I may need to clarify a few things. It isn’t meant at an attempt to have a go at anyone for trying to read between the lines, it’s more just in case anyone else wishes to reply. I didn’t want to make my original post too personal.

This decision wasn’t on a whim. I’ve been travelling to Thailand every year for holidays for the past 7 years staying at various guesthouses. In 2012 one of my regular guesthouses in a different part of Thailand was put up for sale. I enquired and learnt of some of the major dos and don’ts of running a guesthouse in Thailand. The asking price was too expensive for me.

My friend, is just that, a friend, there is no intention from either side to change that relationship into anything other than it is. She currently works for a large Thai national company. I am aware that the purchase would be in her name, however I used the terminology “buy” because it is my money and my friend is aware of that and if everything went ahead she knows how important it would be for both of us to make it work. Being involved in a guesthouse works for both of us as next steps in our lives.

I have the 800,000 now, I just don’t see me having another 800,000 in the next year after the initial purchase and further investment.

Thanks again, I’ll look into each response in more depth later.

[JeremyBowskill]

Thank you all for the early responses. There’s a fair amount of information, guidance and advice I need to digest. I feel I may need to clarify a few things. It isn’t meant at an attempt to have a go at anyone for trying to read between the lines, it’s more just in case anyone else wishes to reply. I didn’t want to make my original post too personal.

This decision wasn’t on a whim. I’ve been travelling to Thailand every year for holidays for the past 7 years staying at various guesthouses. In 2012 one of my regular guesthouses in a different part of Thailand was put up for sale. I enquired and learnt of some of the major dos and don’ts of running a guesthouse in Thailand. The asking price was too expensive for me.

My friend, is just that, a friend, there is no intention from either side to change that relationship into anything other than it is. She currently works for a large Thai national company. I am aware that the purchase would be in her name, however I used the terminology “buy” because it is my money and my friend is aware of that and if everything went ahead she knows how important it would be for both of us to make it work. Being involved in a guesthouse works for both of us as next steps in our lives.

I have the 800,000 now, I just don’t see me having another 800,000 in the next year after the initial purchase and further investment.

Thanks again, I’ll look into each response in more depth later.

I have been in the catering trade, both hotels, restaurants and bars and have more than 2 decades experience and I wouldn't fancy my chances of making it work here. It's not a pop at you, its just 1 of the quickest ways to lose cash. If you want to stay longer look for other options. I live in Chiang Mai and have done for over 11 years, if you feel like a beer and want answers to the questions you have asked, I would be happy to try and help, but still think you should keep your money in your pocket.

[MRTHAIBRI]

Too much miss-information is coming your way. Check out the Siam Legal website. They can organize a non B visa before you arrive in the Kingdom at reasonable cost. They can also help you with the company set up. You don't need to have 2 mill available in cash. This is just the limited liability you take on-board if you go down the drain. Yes you can hold 49% with 2 Thai nationals holding 51% between them. Your female friend can be a director and employee with 49% and a Law firm or your friends relative holding 2%. Having worked in the accommodation industry I know you will need more than 2 people to run the guesthouse. Cleaners, laundry, gardening / maint (wages are low). You can easily get the 4 Thai employees you need. Once the company is set up your Lawyer can organize a work permit on behalf of the company. Best advice I can give is to get a reputable Law firm on your side. It's worth the money in the long run. The laws change all the time in Thailand and you need a savvy lawyer who is up to date. Forget about the 800K it doesn't apply to you. I will be doing the same thing in 2015. I'll be interested in your experience!! Good luck.

[MikeENZ]

I tried the same thing last year. Long story short, business partners are now overseas and in other towns, I'm back on a tourist visa waiting to go home, and I've kissed goodbye to whatever money I put into the venture.

Am happy to give you advice, but not on a public forum. Feel free to PM me for skype details and I'll give you a run down of the experience.

[12DrinkMore]

I tried the same thing last year. Long story short, business partners are now overseas and in other towns, I'm back on a tourist visa waiting to go home, and I've kissed goodbye to whatever money I put into the venture.

Am happy to give you advice, but not on a public forum. Feel free to PM me for skype details and I'll give you a run down of the experience.

Come on, give us all the story.

Pleeeeze

It would surely provide a highlight of the day for quite a few around in TV.

[hiso1956]

If you dont have 2mil baht to start with forget about running a guest house your just going to lose whatever you do have into it...but best of luck anyway

[zaZa9]

None of this is being critical , but you need to ask yourself why you are going down the road of buying , a Lease on a guesthouse.

If its to stay longer in LOS , then there are other ways to stay longer in Thailand without having an anchor around your neck , meaning something like a guesthouse to worry about. This business requires staffing 24/7/365 and very likely in the period April to December it will be a money drain - while you could be back in the UK for the summer earning REAL money.

If your friend is the only one looking after it while you shoot home for work , how can she hold a job and take care of it as well?

If you know a bit about guesthouses , maybe youve found one that is an absolute bargain ?

If so , let us know the maths ... I had one and have some idea.

Theres many a g/hse that can work , but the great barrier to most ever doing great is key money....rent in advance , dead money , whatever you want to call it , its a non refundable pricey fee for having the privilidge of renting a building that usually needs work . Work the landlord will never pay for.

And in many caese after 3 years , the building owner will want to negotiate a New deal , and that is never cheaper than the last ... you can bet if you are going well , a new lease will really go up in price!

If you dont have a million baht buffer zone after kicking off this venture , a venture that you dont even majority own , I would strongly suggest you look at other alternatives.

[MRTHAIBRI]

Try looking into a business where you're not relying on tourists.

[isnakebite]

Too much miss-information is coming your way. Check out the Siam Legal website. They can organize a non B visa before you arrive in the Kingdom at reasonable cost. They can also help you with the company set up. You don't need to have 2 mill available in cash. This is just the limited liability you take on-board if you go down the drain. Yes you can hold 49% with 2 Thai nationals holding 51% between them. Your female friend can be a director and employee with 49% and a Law firm or your friends relative holding 2%. Having worked in the accommodation industry I know you will need more than 2 people to run the guesthouse. Cleaners, laundry, gardening / maint (wages are low). You can easily get the 4 Thai employees you need. Once the company is set up your Lawyer can organize a work permit on behalf of the company. Best advice I can give is to get a reputable Law firm on your side. It's worth the money in the long run. The laws change all the time in Thailand and you need a savvy lawyer who is up to date. Forget about the 800K it doesn't apply to you. I will be doing the same thing in 2015. I'll be interested in your experience!! Good luck.

Thank you, though it would appear that you have had better experience with Siam Legal than I. I have to name and shame them as the "1" company that wrote back. They ignored all my questions and replied with simply "you are correct, the work permit of the owner can not be used by you."

Your comments about more than 2 people are taken on board, I do have another friend who is currently unemployed and has already offered her services as a cleaner and cook

[jocko]

Too much miss-information is coming your way. Check out the Siam Legal website. They can organize a non B visa before you arrive in the Kingdom at reasonable cost. They can also help you with the company set up. You don't need to have 2 mill available in cash. This is just the limited liability you take on-board if you go down the drain. Yes you can hold 49% with 2 Thai nationals holding 51% between them. Your female friend can be a director and employee with 49% and a Law firm or your friends relative holding 2%. Having worked in the accommodation industry I know you will need more than 2 people to run the guesthouse. Cleaners, laundry, gardening / maint (wages are low). You can easily get the 4 Thai employees you need. Once the company is set up your Lawyer can organize a work permit on behalf of the company. Best advice I can give is to get a reputable Law firm on your side. It's worth the money in the long run. The laws change all the time in Thailand and you need a savvy lawyer who is up to date. Forget about the 800K it doesn't apply to you. I will be doing the same thing in 2015. I'll be interested in your experience!! Good luck.

Thank you, though it would appear that you have had better experience with Siam Legal than I. I have to name and shame them as the "1" company that wrote back. They ignored all my questions and replied with simply "you are correct, the work permit of the owner can not be used by you."

Your comments about more than 2 people are taken on board, I do have another friend who is currently unemployed and has already offered her services as a cleaner and cook

A cleaner and a cook a cook won't work for cleaner salary.

Good luck to you but be very careful who you trust everybody has to be on a tight rein especially if you are not there all the time.

I learned a hard lesson and would not recommend a business in Thailand unless you get very big help from someone who can keep you straight.

[DLP]

Very risky you need a lot of back up money to see you thru the first year. Dont for one moment think that you will open up

and start making money straight away, it dose'nt work like that here.

Also if you are buying a lease on a exsisting guest house, ask yourselff why are they selling ?

my advice DONT DO IT.

[DLP]

Very risky you need a lot of back up money to see you thru the first year. Dont for one moment think that you will open up

and start making money straight away, it dose'nt work like that here.

Also if you are buying a lease on a exsisting guest house, ask yourselff why are they selling ?

my advice DONT DO IT.

[johnnyk]

To get a work permit you must set up a company capitalized at 2 million AND have 4 Thai employees on the books. Don't let them near any money, cleaning and cooking ok.

They will likely be the biggest headache.

If you can manage with just your GF then pay 4 Thais to stay home, just pay their gov't health and pension contributions. Paperwork PITA so hand it over to a bookkeeper.

[LivinginKata]

Defamatory post removed

[The Deerhunter]

If you don't have 800k as you mentioned (regardless of the visa bit) then you really should re think this quite frankly liable to fail plan. The odds of making a living from such a business are not favorable and become dramatically worse if you are underfunded in a venture. I assume (maybe wrongly) you have met a woman and are looking for a way to extend your stay? This option will do that, but only until you run out of cash, which is liable to be quite quickly.

You do realize high season is all but done apart from a couple weeks around sonkran? You will need to keep the sinking beast floating until at least November this year before any real custom will turn up (assuming governments are not shooting each other). Seriously don't do it.

Cynical? NO! Good advice? Very!