Drastic steps offered to fight graft: Thai politics

[webfact]

POLITICS
Drastic steps offered to fight graft
PRAVIT ROJANAPHRUK
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- DEATH sentence for the crime of corruption, speedy handling of graft cases and removal of all senior officials after the caretaker Yingluck Shinawatra administration is ousted - these are the proposals made at the second of a scheduled six rounds of the national reform forum organised by the People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) yesterday.

The second round of the forum was focused on corruption and was chaired by Poldej Pinprateep, a former Cabinet member under the junta-appointed Surayud Chulanont administration.

Poldej suggested it was imperative to transfer all senior government officials when Yingluck was deposed because they were all appointed by the PM and her associates.

The forum touched upon corruption in both private and public sectors, warning of the culture of patronage and debts of honour which led to much corruption in Thai society.

Many speakers called for greater transparency for government projects, and assets declaration by politicians as well as senior government officials.

Anti-corruption campaigner Tor-trakul Yomnak was one of the seven main speakers chosen by the PDRC to speak for 10 minutes each. He said those found guilty of corruption should be swiftly punished while the public should play a greater role in stemming corrupt practices.

Tortrakul said he was confident anti-corruption activities would soon become successful as many people had expressed their opposition to it. "I am sure that 10 to 20 millions are watching [what I am saying through] Blue Sky TV," he added.

Rattapong Sornsuphab, dean of the College of Social Innovation at Rangsit University said corruption related to populist policy must be tackled, while greater support must be given for corruption-prevention campaigns.

On the cultural side, former law lecturer at Sukhothai Thammathirat Open University Komsarn Pokong, said bribery started at home in some families where fathers might bribe their children not to tell their mother what the father had been up to.

"We don't see a patronage system as corruption, but in many countries they do," said Komsarn.

Former senator Chirmsak Pinthong said the notion of "debt of honour" could easily be manipulated to facilitate graft as people sought to return favours. He blamed the "Thaksin regime" for the worst distortion of graft-related policy.

Suggestions from the public participants ranged from introducing death penalty for those guilty of corruption, preparing a new unelected PM to replace Yingluck, and tackling corruption and placing the burden of proof for those accused of corruption on the accused themselves.

-- The Nation 2014-03-13

[Thai at Heart]

Here we go.

Any news on punishment for anyone involved in land misappropriation? Death penalty for corruption? That takes out 90% of ptp and 50% of the democrats.

[MGP]

Here we go.

Any news on punishment for anyone involved in land misappropriation? Death penalty for corruption? That takes out 90% of ptp and 50% of the democrats.

That is the evidence that this uprising is a fight for justice, for transparency, and for the future of all the people of the country. Not for the personal benefit of any particular group or person.

[Thai at Heart]

Here we go.

Any news on punishment for anyone involved in land misappropriation? Death penalty for corruption? That takes out 90% of ptp and 50% of the democrats.

That is the evidence that this uprising is a fight for justice, for transparency, and for the future of all the people of the country. Not for the personal benefit of any particular group or person.

You think they are going to apply this judgement equally to all sides of the political spectrum.

When I said 90 and 50%, that was to a thai level.of accountability. If they took it to a western, that would knock out 99%, of all public employees.

[Mango Bob]

Half the people in Thailand would be on death row if this became law.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Mango Bob

[Canada]

Yeah...sure.

What do you think they'd suggest to eliminate the corruption that permeates Thai society in general. From buying jobs, to skimming local municipal projects etc. They'll need a pretty wide swath to get this one. It'll never happen. Thais are used to it, and accept it as the norm.

[chrisinth]

"DEATH sentence for the crime of corruption, speedy handling of graft cases and removal of all senior officials......"

Excellent, all well and good, this will work....................

And when the caretaker government is ousted and the PDRC get their people's representitives in place, will it continue?

A major part of these protests is the brainwashing through repetition that the only government party involved in corruption is the current one, and that corruption stems only from association with TS and family.

It will be too late when the truth unfolds that this is not the case. Never, ever trust a politian's promise....................

Edit: I'm not sure who i feel more sorry for, the people making these statements or the people believing them. Sad days.

Edited March 13, 2014 by chrisinth

[noitom]

Ahhh. The Chinese communist model. Death. Quick trial, out back, up against the wall. Death.

[JoeThePoster]

DEATH sentence for the crime of corruption

Commuted to a life term if you pay the right folks.

[worgeordie]

Does anyone think for one second MPs are going to vote in a law

of this magnitude, it would be like signing their own death warrant,

so its never going to happen, business as usual,which way to the

trough.

regards Worgeordie

[chainarong]

The death penalty is a bit server ,we are not China, 25 years in a Thai jail, I would think is enough, after all, everyone is corrupt, it depends on what opportunity comes your way and what rules apply, just how corrupt you are , in a democracy you would get caught, the sacking of all the PTP Administration officials needs to be taken carefully, as some of these people don't wish to serve the PTP, but there is no where else to go, the treasury and finance office are well regarded internationally , it is the stupid Ministers and party hacks that make it impossible to operate properly , also you need to address the politicians and senior officials of all political party's , criminal history, with a complete life ban in politics or as a Party official.

[craigt3365]

Ahhh. The Chinese communist model. Death. Quick trial, out back, up against the wall. Death.

Doesn't seem to work too well there:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/26/us-china-wen-wealth-idUSBRE89P05320121026

(Reuters) - The family of Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao, a leader known for his humble roots and compassion for ordinary people, has accumulated massive wealth during his time in power, the New York Times reported on Friday.

"A review of corporate and regulatory records indicates that the prime minister's relatives, some of whom have a knack for aggressive deal-making, including his wife, have controlled assets worth at least $2.7 billion," it said.

http://time.com/1374/offshore-wealth-of-chinas-leaders/

[focus27]

Best quote is that, "We don't see a patronage system as corruption, but in many countries they do," says a former law professor, who surely must see that such patronage binds people into covert relationships that undermine their public duties within a transparent democracy.

Perhaps Thailand should just give up on representative democracy and fashion itself into a "patronage democracy". Let the Senate elect its own members and select the ministers and PM, with the lower house acting as a check on the elite. This is how the Republic of Venice was governed... for a while; they eventually got rid of the plebs altogether. It didn't stop the back-stabbing but, like any mafia, they tended to kill their own. This was also the most prosperous period for La Serenissima.

[arthurboy]

For any new law, whether in its design, enactment or enforcement, to work, it's the people that make it happen, be they the public or those in authority.

Yes, the people.

So, I wonder how Mr. Suthep intends to 'reform' a cultural and behavioural mind set that has evolved and revolved around feudalism and patronage for centuries?

If the corrupt and those people with power and influence or those who seek unfair advantage over others are willing to change, all to the good.

If not, what then?

Edited March 13, 2014 by arthurboy

[Lupatria]

That would be a weird twist- from bahtism to polpotism

[Katipo]

Here we go.

Any news on punishment for anyone involved in land misappropriation? Death penalty for corruption? That takes out 90% of ptp and 50% of the democrats.

I know. Good, isn't it

[Spartakos]

Assets seizure and death penalty, now you are talking! But who in their right mind would enter a politics then?

[chrisrazz]

There are already laws in place, whether the penalties are stiff enough, I don't know. The issue is really about policing, bringing cases before courts and applying the law in an impartial manner. It makes no difference what the ultimate penalty is if these fundamentals are not adhered to.

[Luk Mhee]

Ahhh. The Chinese communist model. Death. Quick trial, out back, up against the wall. Death.

I think many agree with this, corruption from people working in the government sector and the large corporates that are involved in this deserves the death penalty, because, they have abused the trust of the people who voted for them. Secondly, corruption stunts the growth of the Kingdom, and last but not least they are milking the country and depriving the nation of fair trade, and equal opportunity, if convicted these people that are directly involved with this crime should immediately be taken out of the courtroom and shot behind the head, there should be no leave for appeal permitted, because they are raping the Kingdom and the citizens

[Tatsujin]

Well, at least they are doing "something" to tackle these issues directly with the public. It's a start.

[fatdrunkandstupid]

There are already laws in place, whether the penalties are stiff enough, I don't know. The issue is really about policing, bringing cases before courts and applying the law in an impartial manner. It makes no difference what the ultimate penalty is if these fundamentals are not adhered to.

Yep....there are lots of laws and lots of police in Thailand already. There is just zero policing. Political corruption or traffic infringments. Both require POLICING.

[edgarfriendly]

drastic words + drastic inaction = profit

[ggt]

Once the death penalty for corruption is enacted...Thailand's population will be reduced to 3 Buddhist monks...

[jollyman]

It wont ever happen the yellows, and military, the courts,the rich,the powerfull, wont be included, only the people who cannot defend them selves will be punished!

You doing a great Job dear leader Sethup

[soalbundy]

Half the people in Thailand would be on death row if this became law.

Meaning the other 50% aren't important enough to bribe or not rich enough to offer a bribe

[soalbundy]

I hate it when everyone is at the trough and i'm left out,give me a chance i can be as corrupt as you want.........for a price.

[rickirs]

Most of these "proposals" would fall into the category of being unconstitutional that would trigger dissolution of the Suthep "shadow" government also being proposed as well. So I wouldn't be surprised another corruption fighting proposal will be that all judges who have or might rule in favor of the PTP will be deemed "corrupt" as well based on "secret evidence" that only Suthep possesses and be immediately removed from the judicial system to be replaced by candidates from the People's Committee. The Democrats are like thieves calling for law and order.

[focus27]

Perhaps this is more relevant in this thread.

There is an interesting research paper, Why Democracies Collapse [http://ips.sagepub.c...1.full.pdf html]. From their starting assumptions of 11 variables, the researchers narrowed it down to just 5, with the prediction that any country that manifests 4 of the 5 symptoms being very likely to see a collapse of its democratic system.

"The most crucial variables are: cleavages [or deep social divisions], a malfunctioning economy, unfavorable history [and specifically the social, civic and cultural history of democratic development], governmental instability, and foreign involvement. If four of these negative factors appear simultaneously, the democratic regime is almost doomed to collapse. Democracy is, therefore, neither fragile nor feeble, but, rather, a highly resilient regime type."

Setting aside their positive coda, one thing that surprised the researchers was that the actual type of democratic system (proportional, mixed, federal, presidential etc) that a nation employs did not strongly correlate with its stability. Democratic collapse, not just regime change and political instability, were more strongly correlated with the social currency of democratic principles than with the technicalities of the democratic process.

Those who seek to 'reform' Thailand may do well to read the article. Thailand is mentioned in relation to its chronic governmental instability and constitutional weakness.

So, ultimately, checks and balances only work in a culture that believes in checks and balances.

How does Thailand fare under those five variables?

[samtam]

Presumably if you're rich, powerful and important you could send your lawyer or a vassal to be executed on your behalf?

[xminator]

Any group promoting the death penalty shows their true fascist colors. Its a terrible solution to a real problem, and do not address the real problem in Thailand where corruption is not just about money but also about positions and connections. As long as not everyone is treated equally by the law there is no way to stop corruption. The so called reforms is just more tools for the corrupt to the core pdrc movement.