Why are you a butterfly?

[crazydrummerpauly]

Because I can.

Many (most) women love sex for just fun or as a sport once they've permission, it's social taboos holding them back. But I agree it's more rare for them to allow it to take over their whole life.

Since I first started coming to Thailand, I've never had any interest in any porn or even live shows.

Why watch when you can do yourself?

How many women under 30 move to a different country for sex? I've never even heard of one. A lot of young men here have moved to Thailand because of sex (or a reasonable facsimile). If the men in the West are so handsome why don't Thai ladies move to the West to butterfly?

"If the men in the West are so handsome why don't Thai ladies move to the West to butterfly?" On a website founded on advice about Visas..."Thai ladies move to the West" ... How exactly would they do that ?

[Diddl]

What utter nonsense I read on this forum. Let’s face it, most men have their brains below the waist these days. They have to brag about their conquests because they have nothing else to offer – no brains, no personality, no positive characteristics, no honour. Bragging about being a “butterfly” is hardly a thing to be proud of - is it because they are totally useless and have nothing to offer as a REAL man and are trying to prove to others that they have something?

As for those men talking about women, what do they know when they don’t even have brains that function and ONLY concentrate on what is below their waist. A women to them is just something to be used and thrown in the garbage when done with! I have more respect for the animal kingdom!

And, I will add, there is a total lack of respect these days for another person – everything is about me and what I can get! Hardly a thing to be proud of.

For those few left that are still REAL men and can be called human beings, congratulations. Continue to be proud that you have not joined the decaying race!

What a sad world we live in. Where have the MEN gone? Are they a dying race?

For those who want to reply with unintelligent and disgusting comments, do as you please, I will continue to tell the truth – you have proved yourself unworthy of my response so enjoy your slandering.

[humqdpf]

"I wish I could be a butterfly but there are too many women holding me down." Unknown

[wym]

She is Thai. Her mother has told her all men butterfly. Her brother has told her all men butterfly. Her teachers have all told her all men butterfly and everyone she chats with on Line chat and facebook have told her all men butterfly.

Yes, and as long as you make this a condition before you commit to the relationship, it is easy to find TG that are willing to accept you having casual flings, as long as you CONSTANTLY reassure them - with your actions not your words - that your serious relationship isn't threatened.

However very few are willing to let others know that they know, that would be losing too much face, so you usually do have to protect them by being very discreet.

i love it when people use terms exclusive to the sex trade as if they are common parlance.

I doubt that the term "butterfly" is "exclusive to the sex trade".

In fact, the term would seem to be quite irrelevant to a prostitute...

I take it your experience here is very limited. First, sex workers here are often looking for long-term and will try to manipulate their clients to using them exclusively, even if they don't reciprocate. No businessperson want competition, and these girls - if you let them - will do their best to wear the pants as quickly as possible.

Second, the actual English word butterfly is indeed a sex trade term, completely unknown in straight Thai circles - and also I may add to NES speakers without experience here (side Q I assume it's got Vietnam-era R&R roots, is it use in Vietnam and the Philipines' bar trade?) The Thai equivalent jao choo is of course very well known.

What utter nonsense I read on this forum. Lets face it, most men have their brains below the waist these days. They have to brag about their conquests because they have nothing else to offer no brains, no personality, no positive characteristics, no honour. Bragging about being a butterfly is hardly a thing to be proud of - is it because they are totally useless and have nothing to offer as a REAL man and are trying to prove to others that they have something?

As for those men talking about women, what do they know when they dont even have brains that function and ONLY concentrate on what is below their waist. A women to them is just something to be used and thrown in the garbage when done with! I have more respect for the animal kingdom!

And, I will add, there is a total lack of respect these days for another person everything is about me and what I can get! Hardly a thing to be proud of.

For those few left that are still REAL men and can be called human beings, congratulations. Continue to be proud that you have not joined the decaying race!

What a sad world we live in. Where have the MEN gone? Are they a dying race?

For those who want to reply with unintelligent and disgusting comments, do as you please, I will continue to tell the truth you have proved yourself unworthy of my response so enjoy your slandering.

I very much agree with the essence of what you're saying, but note that

1 This is a feature of the exploitative capitalist mindset, not mongers exclusively

and

2 It was around a long time before "these days", I think the few (sub)cultures in the west that were more enlightened is a fairly recent phenomena, only gained ground to become mainstream in the past century.

Hopefully not just an historical passing blip but the long-term trend.

In the meantime I'm happy to be free to be a pig. . .

[Rockhopper]

E. O. Wilson used sociobiology and evolutionary principles to explain the behavior of the social insects and then to understand the social behavior of other animals, including humans, thus established sociobiology as a new scientific field. He argued that all animal behavior, including that of humans, is the product of heredity, environmental stimuli, and past experiences, and that free will is an illusion.

​From Wikipedia, underlines added.

[i claudius]

I lived in a flat in London in the 60s and to be honest rogered anything female with a pulse ,i have been married lets say a few times and all of my life my main aim was to sleep with women and God there have been loads ,bur 21 years ago i met my now wife and after a few warnings from her in the courting and living together stage i have never strayed ,i have been tempted ,but i would not do it to her ,but oh ,life has been fun.

[Diddl]

A question to all the butterflies. Doesn't love ever come into such an activity? Is pleasure more important than love?

[thailiketoo]

Newt Gingrich is married to a woman 23 years his junior and he cheats on her for America. He is da man.

Newt Gingrich: “There’s no question at times of my life, partially driven by how passionately I felt about this country, that I worked far too hard and things happened in my life that were not appropriate.

Me too. I only cheated because I passionately love Thailand.

[thailampang2012]

Because I can.

Many (most) women love sex for just fun or as a sport once they've permission, it's social taboos holding them back. But I agree it's more rare for them to allow it to take over their whole life.

Since I first started coming to Thailand, I've never had any interest in any porn or even live shows.

Why watch when you can do yourself?

How many women under 30 move to a different country for sex? I've never even heard of one. A lot of young men here have moved to Thailand because of sex (or a reasonable facsimile). If the men in the West are so handsome why don't Thai ladies move to the West to butterfly?

The answer for your question is very easy.

Thai women no move to the West to butterfly ..because cannot get the visa. ....

I met many Thai young and very beautiful women married here with old, fat, ugly and even poor westerners. I know that in western countries these beauties will be chased for a lot of young, handsome, and rich men.....

That's why I am not taking my Thai wife to live in my country....

Edited March 14, 2014 by thailampang2012

[Dave 74]

Funny fact as well is that most farang pay for the girls that the Thai men gets for free...

Not really.

Thai men wouldn't touch half the women Farangs go out with.

[HeavyDrinker]

Because Thailand is full of losers/liars/rapists/ deluded heroes here who think they have it 'cracked' IT

and are getting 'it' for free unlike us oldies..

[lucifer666]

Lost count of the amount of ladies i have been with in my life. I now have a wonderful lady( 7 years)together, and she says i can have a Mia Noi if i want. The thing is, because she says i can do, makes me not interested. I can honestly say that i have never ever cheated on her.

[MrWorldwide]

For those who want to reply with unintelligent and disgusting comments, do as you please, I will continue to tell the truth – you have proved yourself unworthy of my response so enjoy your slandering.

1. You've chosen to click on a thread that is clearly about infidelity

2. I suspect that you'll find the majority of men who do stray from their partner have sufficiently thick skins to be able to handle your distaste - and then some ...

3. If the worst thing to happen to me in the 6 weeks between today and my return to Asia is that I'm deemed 'unworthy of your response', I will consider that a massive win.

Have a nice day.

[MrWorldwide]

Because Thailand is full of losers/liars/rapists/ deluded heroes here who think they have it 'cracked' IT

and are getting 'it' for free unlike us oldies..

I'm surprised you didnt see the need to add 'pedos' to that list - slipping in your old age, HD ?

[thailiketoo]

A question to all the butterflies. Doesn't love ever come into such an activity? Is pleasure more important than love?

No. Yes.

[kannot]

Thai women are equally bad and I don't mean prostitutes, I'm talking regular girls.

I speak with several and they all tell me similar tales of their friends who wait loyally while their boyfriend goes to Europe for a month but after 3 days are already in the sack with someone else.

Another Thai girl, 20 year old student, goes out every night of the week and sleeps with a new Thai boy. That's 5 times a week, every week. I WISH I had that level of consistency!

24 year old, comes to "see" me then goes off on a date later to meet a new farang guy.

A 20 year old who was a virgin until 19, that's only 9 months ago, has now slept with over 60 guys. IN 9 MONTHS.

Don't feel bad about being a male butterfly - it's how God intended it anyway. Monogamy is just nonsense from the bible and marriage only brought in to end land ownership disputes amongst illegitimate children.

The Disney fantasy of "The One" is just that... a childish fantasy.

If you like one woman and her only, great, more power to you. It's good for raising kids, good for them...

For me, I get bored very quickly.

How God intended followed with and nonsense from the Bible hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Malthus101]

How God intended followed with and nonsense from the Bible hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Haha...Don't sweat the semantics!

OK - how "nature" intended it.

Is that better Miss Kannot?

[Neeranam]

Allow me to be philosophical for just a minute. I grew up In the hypocritical west, where we're taught to restrained ourselves and not be too obsessed with sex, yet, the images of sex are everywhere. This is probably why most of us grew up horny and see sex with multiple women as the crowning achievement, but not typically attainable.

But in Thailand, sex is readily available, albeit mostly the pay-as-you-go variety. That's why most Thai guys don't brag about their "conquest" because anybody with some baht can get some (wonder why some farang guys feel a need to boast about this all the time?). But even so, the need never seems to stop. I am not married, have had many GFs, but do wonder if I'll ever be able to be faithful to one woman. It's darn hard in Thailand (in a manner of speaking).

In Thailand, the number of Thai and farang guys that I know who mess around are about the same. There's really no distinction between nationalities--sexual desire is the same the world over. But I do believe that it comes down to availability and that if it was more readily available in the west, more guys there would be messing around. No doubt.

I have been married 13 years and never strayed. I don't think living in Thailand makes it harder. If I had the desire to be a butterfly I simply wouldn't have got married or married a similar thinking woman.

[Malthus101]

What utter nonsense I read on this forum. Let’s face it, most men have their brains below the waist these days. They have to brag about their conquests because they have nothing else to offer – no brains, no personality, no positive characteristics, no honour. Bragging about being a “butterfly” is hardly a thing to be proud of - is it because they are totally useless and have nothing to offer as a REAL man and are trying to prove to others that they have something?

As for those men talking about women, what do they know when they don’t even have brains that function and ONLY concentrate on what is below their waist. A women to them is just something to be used and thrown in the garbage when done with! I have more respect for the animal kingdom!

And, I will add, there is a total lack of respect these days for another person – everything is about me and what I can get! Hardly a thing to be proud of.

For those few left that are still REAL men and can be called human beings, congratulations. Continue to be proud that you have not joined the decaying race!

What a sad world we live in. Where have the MEN gone? Are they a dying race?

For those who want to reply with unintelligent and disgusting comments, do as you please, I will continue to tell the truth – you have proved yourself unworthy of my response so enjoy your slandering.

Where do I begin?

1. If you are a male, go jump off a bridge. It's the best thing for you.

2. If you are female as I suspect given the bitterness of your post, I am going to assume you are a Western woman.

Let me answer your question of where the REAL men went.

YOU, feminist YOU, killed them off. The fact you say "Where did they go?" indicates they once existed. It pretty much coincides historically with the rise of feminism and equal rights for women. You can't have you cake and eat it.

"no brains, no personality, no positive characteristics, no honour."

Haha. I have plenty of brains, loads of personality, dozens upon dozens of positive characteristics (one of them being my roguish ways... girls LOVE IT!)

I met up with a farang woman last night - friend of a friend from back home. It was a painful reminder of how screwed up the West is. Charmless, masculine, opinionated over nonsense issues, badly dressed. Just unattractive.

See Western women love to ask, "Where did all the real men go?"

Let me ask you... "Where did all the real women go?"

Remember those? They also have been on the rapid decline since the advent of feminism.

We men want feminine women. Pretty ones, with long hair, make-up, perfume, elegant clothing, female manners that we find charming, sexual allure through subtle behaviours that drive us crazy.

Virtually impossible to find women like that anymore in the West.

That is why a lot of me come to Asia. Asian women for the most part, still retain these qualities. Eastern European women too, Russian women. Same thing.

It seems bitter women think that wearing men's clothing and hiking boots and filing sexual harassment cases over the most petty things is the way a modern "strong" woman should act.

It is utterly repulsive to a real man. (I don't speak for the Beta males, they are beyond help)

Here, a typical Western middle-aged woman:

And here, a young female role-model:

Get your own house in order before you start making demands on ours.

[wym]

Neanderthal.

You seem to honestly think women exist - even solely, not just mainly! - to please men.

Those women that want to play the patriarchy game back home believe me they still can and do, but for a much more limited audience, they've raised the bar and certainly won't play it for YOU.

[Wat dee]

Many (most) women love sex for just fun or as a sport once they've permission, it's social taboos holding them back. But I agree it's more rare for them to allow it to take over their whole life.

How many women under 30 move to a different country for sex? I've never even heard of one. A lot of young men here have moved to Thailand because of sex (or a reasonable facsimile). If the men in the West are so handsome why don't Thai ladies move to the West to butterfly?

In agreement with my point - few women orient their whole life around their sex organs.

And of course much easier for girls to get laid when they want to, no need for them to have to travel for it.

True , I have never met a female, no matter how ugly, that was travelling thousands of miles to pay for sex, but males, well let's just say, they do.

All except ThaiVisa members that is.

There is a huge sex tourism market for females in Africa. I think Asia, as a sex tourism destination for females, lacks width and length .

That also explains why most TV members are in Thailand and not in Mombasa!

[heist666]

Are you a butterfly?

Well, I used to be when I was younger. I had no regard for anyones feelings, not even my own. My parents treated each other very badly and rather than get divorced they stayed together and made the family suffer. Interesting none of my brothers or sisters are married either.

I also hated myself for a significant period of my life when I was younger, and it took me a long time to make sense of things I had to endure growing up.

Now I met a beautiful girl who loves me I've completely changed. We've been together 4/5 years and I have absolutely interest in cheating on her or having numerous partners in a night or a week. We will marry this year.

Maybe it takes the right girl, maybe it takes the butterfly to grow up. I think deep down ALL men and women want to be loved, despite their own attempts to sabotage it.

[true blue]

Because I can.

Many (most) women love sex for just fun or as a sport once they've permission, it's social taboos holding them back. But I agree it's more rare for them to allow it to take over their whole life.

Since I first started coming to Thailand, I've never had any interest in any porn or even live shows.

Why watch when you can do yourself?

Wym, bet you whatever you like, you can't do yourself the ping pong act.

maybe he can he does spout out of his a-se a lot,lol

[LaraC]

Where do I begin?

1. If you are a male, go jump off a bridge. It's the best thing for you. <--(advocating gentlemanly conduct = he should jump of a bridge?)

2. If you are female as I suspect given the bitterness of your post, I am going to assume you are a Western woman. <--(you really think only a woman could feel this about men? ..dont bother answering that, im being rhetorical)

Let me answer your question of where the REAL men went.

YOU, feminist YOU, killed them off. The fact you say "Where did they go?" indicates they once existed. It pretty much coincides historically with the rise of feminism and equal rights for women. You can't have you cake and eat it. <--(feminism has been around for centuaries. Are you saying women stopped being women (whatever that means) as early as the 18th centuary? Yes, we should go back to not being allowed to read books, study, or vote.. All that does is gives woman more independance and a voice..and dear god we misogynist men cant be having THAT now, can we!)

"no brains, no personality, no positive characteristics, no honour."

Haha. I have plenty of brains, loads of personality, dozens upon dozens of positive characteristics (one of them being my roguish ways... girls LOVE IT!) <--(roguish ways..and girls loving it..hmm..what age are you btw ?.. are you a roguish 50 something year old, charming all the 24 year old Thai girls from the village per chance..? )

I met up with a farang woman last night - friend of a friend from back home. It was a painful reminder of how screwed up the West is. Charmless, masculine, opinionated over nonsense issues, badly dressed. Just unattractive. <--(You mean a painful reminder of the calibre of women from the west you were personally able to attract to your company..)

See Western women love to ask, "Where did all the real men go?" <--(I personally dont, i personally dont surround myself with male sexpats/sextourists and morons, so i thankfully dont feel the need to say that. Sorry for anyone that does.)

Let me ask you... "Where did all the real women go?" <--(aka: "why cant i get the attention of higher quality women?")

Remember those? They also have been on the rapid decline since the advent of feminism. <--(since the 18th centuary..hmm... )

We men want feminine women. Pretty ones, with long hair, make-up, perfume, elegant clothing, female manners that we find charming, sexual allure through subtle behaviours that drive us crazy.

Virtually impossible to find women like that anymore in the West. <(--for you, you mean)

That is why a lot of me come to Asia. Asian women for the most part, still retain these qualities. Eastern European women too, Russian women. Same thing. <--(when they have to face the fact they arent really sought after by the kinds of women they would want. WHich i actually totally understand!! Not knocking that!)

It seems bitter women think that wearing men's clothing and hiking boots and filing sexual harassment cases over the most petty things is the way a modern "strong" woman should act. <--(im sorta feeling quite sad for you now..that i can only imagine that you must never really had the company of sexy feminine women who actually have a reasoned voices. Either you were in a terrible workplace, did inappriate "roguish" things to illicit such ott reactions, or are guilty of reading too much tabloid news).

It is utterly repulsive to a real man. (I don't speak for the Beta males, they are beyond help) <--(um..im sorry, but i hardly think the average bloke that comes to Thailand is an Alpha Male. Are you seriously trying to suggest you are one? Alpha males dont need to traverse across country to get feminine and sexy women..they are easily accessible in their own countries..which usually means the "must seak willing women ugg ugg" response doesnt kick in.)

Here, a typical Western middle-aged woman:

450px-Red_Fanny_Pack.jpg

Really? I doubt it, well not in my circle or from what i have seen..but ok, you are intitled to your view point. I could easily find a post a typical farang guy in Thailand photo..and well..we all know what they look like really..which is certainly based on fact, rather than some dopey image you pulled off the net. You know it too.

And here, a young female role-model:

Miley-Cyrus-Tongue.jpg

Oh give us a break..now you are just coming across as comical..

Get your own house in order before you start making demands on ours.

Oh go get yourself an enema. YOu sound like you need one..

[FiftyTwo]

It is utterly repulsive to a real man. (I don't speak for the Beta males, they are beyond help) <--(um..im sorry, but i hardly think the average bloke that comes to Thailand is an Alpha Male. Are you seriously trying to suggest you are one? Alpha males dont need to traverse across country to get feminine and sexy women..they are easily accessible in their own countries..which usually means the "must seak willing women ugg ugg" response doesnt kick in.)

While I agree with most of what you said LC, pretty much every western male over age 40 (Alpha, Beta or Gamma) would need to traverse countries to get young, feminine and sexy women. George Clooney excepted.

Doesn't matter much how Alpha you are at 40, 50, 60+, no sexy women for you.

Back in my home country (UK), grandad doesn't get laid.

As an aside,

I quite like western women in Thailand.

Edited March 16, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[Loptr]

A question to all the butterflies. Doesn't love ever come into such an activity? Is pleasure more important than love?

Where to begin. First, you are confusing love and pleasure, which are two completely different things. Your judeo-christian upbringing is showing as it is taught in the west that sex is an act which should be confined to two partners committed to each other under the eyes of your "god". The rules are not so rigid in the east as Buddhists have not had this indoctrination. Sex out of wedlock is not seen as a "sin" as it is in the west. Sex is a pleasurable activity, so why not enjoy it? The only proof I have of this phenomenon is the availability of willing partners in Thailand, whether P4P or not.

Love with a bar girl is a completely different matter and the TV archives are littered with stories of failure when you confuse love with pleasure and take up with a bar girl. Not to say all of these relationships fail. Much like any relationship, it's about managing expectations and fulfillment of those expectations, but when you cross the line from paying customer to paying boyfriend, the emotional lines become quite blurred.

As far as love in general, it can be fraught with pitfalls. Again, expectations change after marriage and these expectations are usually not communicated between partners until AFTER tying the knot. This, coupled with the predictable phases of a monogamous relationship and the odds are not in favor of long term success. Kudos to those who can make it work long-term. After two marriages and untold relationships, these days I become friends with ladies and leave it at that. It is quite possible to have friends with benefits if you are open about your intentions from the outset. Love adds too many complications. If you want unrequited love and devotion, get a dog.

[MrWorldwide]

If I'm single in the true sense of the word - no partner, wedded or otherwise - surely I'm free to engage in whatever sexual congress I wish to, as long as it involves consenting adults and doesn't promote violence against women. Gotta love the wowsers on TV - to these folk, everyone else is an incurable monger on the slippery slope of depravity. We aren't all typing our posts from a booth at Lolita's

[thailiketoo]

If I'm single in the true sense of the word - no partner, wedded or otherwise - surely I'm free to engage in whatever sexual congress I wish to, as long as it involves consenting adults and doesn't promote violence against women. Gotta love the wowsers on TV - to these folk, everyone else is an incurable monger on the slippery slope of depravity. We aren't all typing our posts from a booth at Lolita's

Well of course not. It doesn't open till 11AM. Three more hours by my watch.

[wym]

Most such establishments have one or more lower staffers on the totem pole open up early to clean, or even sleeping in the place overnight until they can afford to rent their own room.

Since they're usually the newest hires, they're often the keenest performers, so if you're in the neighborhood after/before hours it often pays very well indeed to have a go and ring the bell.

[LaraC]

A question to all the butterflies. Doesn't love ever come into such an activity? Is pleasure more important than love?

Where to begin. First, you are confusing love and pleasure, which are two completely different things. Your judeo-christian upbringing is showing as it is taught in the west that sex is an act which should be confined to two partners committed to each other under the eyes of your "god". The rules are not so rigid in the east as Buddhists have not had this indoctrination. Sex out of wedlock is not seen as a "sin" as it is in the west. Sex is a pleasurable activity, so why not enjoy it? The only proof I have of this phenomenon is the availability of willing partners in Thailand, whether P4P or not.

Love with a bar girl is a completely different matter and the TV archives are littered with stories of failure when you confuse love with pleasure and take up with a bar girl. Not to say all of these relationships fail. Much like any relationship, it's about managing expectations and fulfillment of those expectations, but when you cross the line from paying customer to paying boyfriend, the emotional lines become quite blurred.

As far as love in general, it can be fraught with pitfalls. Again, expectations change after marriage and these expectations are usually not communicated between partners until AFTER tying the knot. This, coupled with the predictable phases of a monogamous relationship and the odds are not in favor of long term success. Kudos to those who can make it work long-term. After two marriages and untold relationships, these days I become friends with ladies and leave it at that. It is quite possible to have friends with benefits if you are open about your intentions from the outset. Love adds too many complications. If you want unrequited love and devotion, get a dog.

Wanting to combine sex and love has zero to do with judeo-christian upbringing blah blah and whatever god. Well of course it CAN have something to do with it, but you are presuming it DOES have something to do with it. I am not religious, i dont believe in any kind of "god", yet i like to combine sex and love. If you cant understand then you must presumre we are all just monkeys, &lt;deleted&gt; things on sight as a gesture of greeting and goodwill.

Yes indeed sex is a pleasurable activity, and of course we should enjoy it, but when you care for someone and emotions and connection gets involved, then it becomes hard to detach..and those with a modicum of consideration for their partners consider their partners feelings before screwing around and betraying trust. Oh..but in Thailand its not a betrayal of trust, right? Its normal, right? So reading about dicks being cut off and fed to ducks is a work of fiction, right? Hmm....

"The only proof I have of this phenomenon is the availability of willing partners in Thailand, whether P4P or not." You really think paying a hooker for sex equals a willing partner. Sorry, but i see that is someone trying to make cash. If you said you werent going to pay, i suspect they wouldnt be very willing.

Btw..the so-called "phenomenon" of availability of willing partners, happens the world over, not just THailand. What it really is about is the phenomenon and availability of willing partners in Thailand that a certain division of men cannot have outside of thailand...