Courtship practices, rituals and procedures of educated Thai middle class girls

[stix9]

Can some experienced men here, articulate the way educated reservedThai middle class girls go about capturing their falang man ?...particularly the non verbal cues they use and the courtship rituals and stages a falang has to endure on the way to marriage. What are the signposts she uses ?... No half wit answers from boyz... please !!!

[TaxedGuest]

In a nutshell, they don't usually date us!!

I have lived and worked in Thailand for about six years (but only joined this forum today!) and I have to say that 90% of my friends and colleagues are not married to middle/upper class Thais.

Your question did interest me though, as i have read the forums here now and again for a few years, and usually laugh my arse off at either very naive or very stupid people dating bar girls. (Sometimes i think its just trolls writing the stories, but some of them are very entertaining)

When i first arrived in Thailand, I was just 23 but met a couple of young guys (roughly 30ish) that had been living in Bangkok for a little over a year, and they really schooled me on the do's and dont's of dating here. To be honest i dont really know who taught them, but i listened and pretty much followed their 'rules'.

From day 1, the plan was to get a girlfriend that was a 'good girl' and to not get scammed.

A few things that I was told to do to achieve this, I pretty much lived by. And just for your general amusement here were a few key rules.

1. Don't date ANYBODY that you meet in ANY KIND of bar.

2. Don't date anybody from Isaan. (You'll just end up supporting the family)

3. Don't date any girls that have had farang boyfriends before. (These were called 'farang hunters')

4. Don't date any girl that thinks its original to slate their ex-Thai boyfriends saying that farang men are more faithful. Thais don't believe that for a second!!

5. And if a girl sleeps with you the first time you meet her, well, would you be impressed by that back home?

Probably very amusing, but the plan worked.

One of my friends (from the original two) married a very well to do Thai lady. He only dated her for about a year before they got married. He met her family after about six months, and to be honest, I noticed that being involved with the family and making a good effort to learn Thai and impress even the Grandmother went a long way to achieving his goal. He met his wife-to-be as she was working in the same office as him (no internet dating or meeting in a bar).Her family even provided the Sin Sot at the wedding to make themselves look good. He was only asked for a certain amount of cash to be put in to her account so they could start their married lives with a few baht in their pocket. All the wads of cash and gold bars were provided by the family.

Clues? I can't help with, but from my experience, middle/upper class Thai ladies (traditional) don't like to be out much in the evenings. They sure as shit don't have tattoo's or smoke. And something which i feel you can really gauge there social status from is there eating habits. My girlfriend is horrified even seeing Thai people on T.V. eating with their mouth open.

I have been dating a 'middle class' lady for about three years now. She is a solicitor which i met through a friend of a friend, we talk about marriage sometimes but to answer your initial question there is no set answer.

I truly believe the family probably value marriage a lot more than the average Thai lady nowadays. Just like back home, marriage is becoming non-essential with more educated people.

(I know I didn’t really answer your questions, but I hope I put a smile on your face)

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^,

excellent post and for the most part so true.

I live amongst Thais in a normal middle class area and see how these girls behave, they sure as heck aint out galavanting around each evening.

Best place to meet them is at weddings or birthday parties, if you have made an impression you will usually be contacted through a third party a couple of days later, (if the girl hasnt already given you her contact details) she will ask the opinions of other people about you who were also in attendance.

Dont be embarrassed by the usual 10 questions, its normal and nothing to do with you being a farang, dont bother trying to BS the girl either, you will be checked out without even knowing it.

[BigSkip]

Hey Op, you could not have got any better than the 2 posts above, all the checks have been provided, Chok Dee.......

Edited March 19, 2014 by BigSkip

[ezzra]

I pity the misguided poor soul that think that middle/upper class Thai girls have eyes

for foreign men because it isn't so by a long stretch...

[Thakkar]

"reservedThai middle class girls go about capturing their falang man ?"

Easy. Wearing a short skirt, they sit on a chair across the room from this foreign man and cross their legs, very slowly.

T

[Loaded]

The best way to meet educated Thai women is to work with them. They don't frequent sleazy dating websites nor low-class farang bars despite what a few farangs who married 'secretaries' they found on the internet may say.

They need to feel that the man is a social equal and that his behaviour and appearance won't embarrass her with her family and friends. They need to be confident that he can support her physically, materially and emotionally. This doesn't mean that she's after money, it means that she wishes to continue at the same level within society after marriage. Many of the single, young and old, farang men who come to Thailand are just too obviously inappropriate.

[martijn12345]

I pity the man who think it's that easy to put a whole social group in a box and label it with a 1 liner.

Op has gotten very lucky to get some decent advise before the usual crowds come in. It's true most good girls won't go out much, but I know some exceptions. Just like I know exceptions to the 'middle/upper class girls don't date farang' statement.

My advise. Learn thai, learn the culture and spend 10 days in and temple ands that's an important part of thai culture and you will get a lot of credit for doing it and learning how it works.

[Suradit69]

I pity the misguided poor soul that think that middle/upper class Thai girls have eyes

for foreign men because it isn't so by a long stretch...

Certainly not the "high class" farang who says: "What are the signposts she uses ?"

Sounds like someone thinks that being a farang alone makes him irresistibly attractive to educated, reserved women wielding signposts ... or their families. Or maybe he has visions of becoming a kept man.

If nothing else, these educated women would probably run in the opposite direction from anyone writing: "Can some experienced men here, articulate the way educated reservedThai middle class girls go about capturing their falang man."

That cheesy line (articulate?? their falang man?? come on) sounds like something from one of those deplorable American "reality" shows where post-lobotomy bozos and bozo-ettes embarrass themselves to amuse the masses.

The O/P has to be a badly written troll post.

Hey big boy, do you like my signposts?

Edited March 19, 2014 by Suradit69

[lostinsurin]

Why ask such a stupid question?

[godden]

at the local clap clinic??

[LawrenceN]

FWIW, I meant my wife in 1986 at the University of Missouri where she working on her doctorate in Education (Ed.D.). We have now been married 26 years and have a 24-year-old daughter. I don't remember visual cues being all that different from American girls. I asked for her phone number and she gave it to me. I called her and we went out for brunch, then continued to see each other. Just be honest, and don't expect to get them into bed for a long while. I think Thai women, if they're interested, are willing to bend the usual Thai rules for Western guys.

[Runamile]

There's some great material here.

In essence you don't , normally, meet anything like hi-so.

The workplace is, essentially, the be all to end all. In fact, that's pretty true the world over.

The advice over bars is bang-on. I do, though, have a question over hotels. I've developed good relationships with reception, etc staff; and know of one brilliant marriage that happened that way. I, personally, have never tried my luck , though its' sometimes, felt a possibility.

I did though, once date a bus ticket seller. It panned out much as a relationship with a bar girl, except minus the sex! Notwithstanding that, I guess we could have been married within a week or two. I have my doubts there would have been payment. She was over thirty and desperate. Maybe that's another indicator?!

Edited March 19, 2014 by Runamile

[12DrinkMore]

I prefer the farmer girls.

It's a worthwhile occupation, they are more down to earth, don't worry about chipping the nail polish on a fingernail, don't spend all day preening and looking at themselves in the mirror, are keener in the physical interrelationship, get the housework done, happy to ride on the back of a motorcycle, and a generally more easy going and fun to have around.

Na, you can keep all the hi-so and hi-so wannabees.

I like a bit of fun and as little stress as possible.

[RtotheC]

I've met some middle to upper class girls with farang boyfriends and some open to dating farang, but they aren't exclusively looking for farang and they certainly won't be seen with a man 20 years older than them. They come from families with decent income and aren't looking for the free ride that a lot of girls with bad reputations seem to go after. They have a lot of options of both good looking and well to do Thai and farang so why would they limit themselves to either?

[moto77]

My GF fits this category: She has a master's degree, lives in Bangkok and has a professional, five day per week job with a quite a lot of paid holiday time (not a secretary or equivalent). Actually she doesn't even look like a 100% Thai. She looks mixed. She has a thin face and nose and is whiter than I am (a guy with 100% British heritage). I wasn't looking for those characteristics, but it is what it is. She has girl-next-door looks and everyone says she is gorgeous.

She owns a brand new Toyota (and not a cheap one) and a condo and lives alone. Her English is OK. She has a passport with a Schengen visa and a 10 year American business visa, which she got on her own. Of course no kids, no smoking and no tattoos (and cannot tolerate a smoky bar). She does not support or send money to her family. Her parents sent her to school and paid for her education. Her family situation is actually very Westernized and maybe a bit liberal. She's not pushing for marriage and as far as I can tell, no one is pushing her to get married. In short, she doesn't need anything from me. I feel quite lucky to have found her. And the great thing is, she shows me that she feels the same way. Don't settle for anything less.

I agree with the comment that "They need to feel that the man is a social equal and that his behaviour and appearance won't embarrass her with her family and friends." I am well off and have a high level socially respectable occupation. My income is six figure British pounds and comes from multiple sources. She doesn't know my salary and I doubt that she could guess how much I make (I don't even know exactly ), but she certainly knows that I am well off. Nevertheless, she has never, EVER asked me for money or gifts. And I only buy gifts for appropriate occasions, because I am not interested in a relationship that is based on money or "gifts" no matter how perfect the woman otherwise is. If she sticks around even though you're not paying her or giving her Gucci bags every week, you've found a good one.

I agree with the statement that they don't frequent bars, but they can be found on certain dating sites. You just have to know what to look for. (I met two Thai PhDs and a physician on dating sites as well, FYI. )

I met her online. She came to meet me for dinner with TWO friends and went straight home after. (Don't worry if the first date is just a chat and a "have a nice evening".) She took one friend on our next three dates after that. There were several times I misinterpreted things to the extent that I thought she just wanted to be friends (which upset me at the time). I think I got a kiss on the 5th date. I won't go into more details, but you really need to be patient. Once things happen, they happen quickly. She is VERY loving, romantic and tender and somewhat naive about intimacy, but I find that to be very refreshing. She takes my arm when we walk. She cooks really well, but she doesn't come to do my washing or iron my clothes or anything like that, and I'd say her friends are the same. These ladies send their clothes out to the laundry too, so don't expect to get a girlfriend/maid combo!

Thailand is a place of polar opposites. The right gf will make you incredibly happy. The wrong one will put you in hell and leave you penniless.

Edited March 19, 2014 by moto77

[CNXTim]

No half wit answers from boyz... please !!! Why not? It is a witless question...

[JamesDean3]

Number 1 & 2 are Prime Directives.

[Runamile]

I'm envious Moto77. Needless to say, my ticket seller wasn't much able to discuss literature and art, whether that be Asian or Western. I doubt she was much willing to learn, either.

At the end of the day, it's a case of being true to yourself. If those things are dear to you, then would a bar girl be great match? The important thing is accepting her for what she is, and she accepting you for who you are. If you both love pool, maybe the bar is a good place - accepting your willingness to concede she's probably better than you!!!!!

I think what's really horrid is doing a My Fair Lady thing - trying to turn her into something she isn't to satisfy your own inclinations. Leave her in her own cultural space, even if you estimate it as not very cultured. It's not even likely to succeed - as they say, "you can take Isaan out of the girl ........" It always makes me laugh to see the most extreme of Isaan ankles and toes in high heels. It doesn't work and is probably never going to.

[Minnehaha]

I pity the misguided poor soul that think that middle/upper class Thai girls have eyes

for foreign men because it isn't so by a long stretch...

Been here more than 20 years.

The vast majority educated Thai women I have met including while I was at graduate school all wanted to marry a foreign man, particularly if they are handsome and rich. The reason they cite is that the majority of Thai men cannot be trusted - they will cheat on the women. They think foreign men who are educated and well-to-do are much more trustworthy, and handsome. They also like the idea of having luk krueng children.

To the OP:

They meet guys at or through work, get introduced by friends, and some even do so through websites - not the "meet Thai Ladies" kind of sites, but others.

In Thai culture most girls do not actively seek guys. Guys have to make all the moves. In my experience, the more aggressive you are pursuing girls the more girls you will meet and have a chance to have a relationship. When I was a dating guy I dated a lot of girls here. I couldn't believe how easy it is to pick up a nice Thai girl. I can probably count on one hand the number of times a girl declined to give me her number or declined to go on a date.

If you are not getting dates, you are not asking for numbers. You should watch the film Magnolia - particularly the Tom Cruise bits.

Here is one, but there are more. Freaking hilarious, but also true.

[Krataiboy]

1. Don't date ANYBODY that you meet in ANY KIND of bar.

2. Don't date anybody from Isaan. (You'll just end up supporting the family)

3. Don't date any girls that have had farang boyfriends before. (These were called 'farang hunters')

4. Don't date any girl that thinks its original to slate their ex-Thai boyfriends saying that farang men are more faithful. Thais don't believe that for a second!!

And, above, all don't believe sweeping generalisations on Thai Visa from sexist, racist knuckle-draggers.

[arjunadawn]

I don't think your question so stupid. Yea perhaps you could have worded it differently, but the vast body of cynical Thai women commentary found on these pages nearly required the very verbiage you used.

The two "upper middle class" women I have/am dated from/in Thailand represent years long relationships. Curiously, while intermittently living in Thailand over the years, I met both of them outside: one in dxb and one in NYC. My ex turned out to be filthy rich and for most of our time I never knew this, and while we dated for years, in the end she discussed sinsod to me and how could I ever convince her dad I could provide for her? She comes from a very, very wealthy Thai real estate family but she never once revealed this to me while we were in dxb. But money was the topic of our last talk. She actually always knew we would never be together. There is an element of mercenary motive in that woman. So be advised you may suffice as plaything but not more.

I am now back in Bkk with a woman I met years ago in ny on another trip (weird 2/2 met outside). She is a doctor and comes from family of doctors. I am accepted and liked, though not their first choice. I get it and agree. So what would so upper middle class/rich women want with me? Thoughts

No drink no smoke

Buddhist interest but not overly

Funny confident aware secure their safety - open doors for her but if she gets there first, tell her your turn

Hand/arm hold when cross street, stairs, elevators, doors

Comfort- be comfortable. If she looks great say, dAmn girl, you look great- women want you to be fatherly insofar as you protect them but also want a buddy. I'm certain

Interest in their family- even if it kills you. Fold yourself into their lives through questions about people in family and be genuine, or act as if...

Don't look for these women in bars, clubs, or buses

They won't have tattoos and likely won't be older with braces

Their clothes won't look like the best they have, just one other thing they could have thrown on.

If you are on asoke during lunch and see a lovely woman why not tell her, and ask her to coffee. So what you get rejected. You only want the one that wants you anyway, right? I would feel comfortable to presume the one you want speaks English so I would not ask in tingtong Thai. Do you understand English? Just start talking to her. If she doesn't understand, she probably wasn't the one.

Be aware that many will feign no English initially.

If you have tattoos cover them until she likes you enough not to run

Depends. But I think goatee is a plus. Just my observation.

Have nice haircut. Dress comfortably but clean, don't wear camera on your neck.

How you apply anything will depend on the age of the woman. If you are any of these things above, but it is not you, it will not ring true.

Read the other positive posts here again

Good luck

PS. I am that kept farang that one of your posters commented on. But I think your question is quite smart and dialed in.

[Mangkhut]

They dont......

[moto77]

I'm envious Moto77. Needless to say, my ticket seller wasn't much able to discuss literature and art, whether that be Asian or Western. I doubt she was much willing to learn, either.

At the end of the day, it's a case of being true to yourself. If those things are dear to you, then would a bar girl be great match? The important thing is accepting her for what she is, and she accepting you for who you are. If you both love pool, maybe the bar is a good place - accepting your willingness to concede she's probably better than you!!!!!

I think what's really horrid is doing a My Fair Lady thing - trying to turn her into something she isn't to satisfy your own inclinations. Leave her in her own cultural space, even if you estimate it as not very cultured. It's not even likely to succeed - as they say, "you can take Isaan out of the girl ........" It always makes me laugh to see the most extreme of Isaan ankles and toes in high heels. It doesn't work and is probably never going to.

It's difficult to find a Thai that loves literature or art (those that do are usually writers or artists ). I'm not a big literature nut, but I love modern art. I would say that she didn't seek it out, but I have taken her to a number of galleries including the Bangkok MOCA (where we bought matching t-shirts) and she's really enjoyed them and she likes that I challenge her with these things. We also like taking all day hikes around the city to see some of the historic sites that most tourists AND MOST THAIs miss.

One thing that amazed me, and still amazes me to this day: She can eat/drink ANYTHING. Blue cheese, red wine, Mexican, Italian, French, Spanish, Real English breakfasts complete with beans (which I still do once in a while), even hoppy craft beer. We eat Thai food only a few days per week. I cannot name even one food that she does not like. How she manages to keep her weight at 48, I'll never know.

But I will say that she still has her Thainess, too. She still sends me cute cartoon stickers in LINE at least once per hour it seems. HAHA

I agree with you 100%. If you love to party and get drunk every night and you want to have a maid that is also well experienced in bed and you don't mind supporting an extended family, a bar girl might very well be perfect for you. (But how do you know if she loves you or your money? I don't have an answer.) If you think one of these--I hate to say "good girls" but it gets the point across--is going to be getting pissed up with you on Sukhumvit every night, you will end up being disappointed and so will she. That's not to say the she won't drink and MAYBE dance with you eventually (my God dancing took a long time to happen), it won't happen more than once a week if you are lucky.

I'll add one more thing. I do know a few guys that married former bar girls and who are now living normal lives and are very happy. But without exception, they do NOT live in Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket, Samui, etc. They either live in Issan or they live outside Thailand. The ones who live where they met inevitably end up with a cheating wife. On the other hand, I'd leave my GF alone in Pattaya without ever giving it a second thought (though if I did so, she'd not be very happy about it).

Edited March 19, 2014 by moto77

[natway09]

Really you Peacocks,

I have lived, loved married & worked here for 21 years & it really is just a silly , obvious answer question

[12DrinkMore]

Really you Peacocks,

I have lived, loved married & worked here for 21 years & it really is just a silly , obvious answer question

Took a long time to discover Thai Visa didn't you?

Most expats seem to spend their whole day on it.

[Malthus101]

1. Hi-So to Thais means royalty, politicians, family owners of big business, military leaders etc.

Even a famous model or Thai TV star is not considered Hi-So in Thailand.

That's the first distinction to get right. Farang start thinking a girl is Hi-So if she speaks English, drives a Toyota and has a job as a bank teller. That's just middle-class.

Anyway.... 2 of the Thai girls I have "dated" fit the farang idea; both went to the top universities in BKK. Both speak English very well. Both traveled all over Europe. Both own cars. Both live in big houses (with their family)

1. From a Thai dating website

2. From craigslist - she was looking for a "F" buddy

Go figure.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Malthus101

[slipperylobster]

In another nut shell it is quite easy.

I was lured in to a furniture shop, and my cute University Grad/High Social, Resort owner invited me for coffee..

She speaks fairly good english (Remember...University level) and invited me for coffee, and to look at her web site on her resort.

She was recently divorced from a Thai man, so she was out to do better... found me.... for better or worse.

Well, I would never think of trying to date a gal in her twenties...as I am hitting 60 next year. It just does not mix well.

She has tons of friends (upper working class type) but they are not spring chickens. Mostly late 30's to 40's

Surprisingly, many are successful and have nice homes and cars. It exists .

I recommend going hi-so but mid aged. You will definitely suceed

[moto77]

1. Hi-So to Thais means royalty, politicians, family owners of big business, military leaders etc.

Even a famous model or Thai TV star is not considered Hi-So in Thailand.

That's the first distinction to get right. Farang start thinking a girl is Hi-So if she speaks English, drives a Toyota and has a job as a bank teller. That's just middle-class.

That's right.

The others are upper class (rich but not hi-so) or upper middle class. If they are young and single and able to get Western visas on their own, they are upper middle class at least.

A bank teller is middle class and--if single--would not likely be issued a visa to the UK, Europe or America without some sponsor. Australia is a bit different, apparently. I've known a few middle class girls who were able to get an Australia visa without a sponsor. Canada apparently takes everyone.

Edited March 19, 2014 by moto77

[Slinky1958]

Hope this helps all thai women come with history sams as the guys that come here

I met a woman in isan on line she was my soul mate done all the visas for the uk .But she will also love her mam and family more she had a shop found out she was bankrupt in the mean time I was promised land as a wedding present ohhhhh here we go built the house found out my wife got cancer

mother said go an ...... you self its my land therefoe my house looked after my wife went back on line found a well educated school teacher 38 stunner mother a teacher retired father dead was a policeman

Now see how see dresses and act in public clue is she thinks she must be this way of kind but to show here status as a teacher shes kind but really comes over as classy go back home and we shower in a shed just be careful here the lucky guys are realy lucky the rose tinted spectacle guys they get stung what ever class