Courtship practices, rituals and procedures of educated Thai middle class girls

[anthobkk]

A few things that I was told to do to achieve this, I pretty much lived by. And just for your general amusement here were a few key rules.

1. Don't date ANYBODY that you meet in ANY KIND of bar.

2. Don't date anybody from Isaan. (You'll just end up supporting the family)

3. Don't date any girls that have had farang boyfriends before. (These were called 'farang hunters')

4. Don't date any girl that thinks its original to slate their ex-Thai boyfriends saying that farang men are more faithful. Thais don't believe that for a second!!

5. And if a girl sleeps with you the first time you meet her, well, would you be impressed by that back home?

I don't agree at all for those rules !!

I met my first thai middle class girlfriend in a bar we were completely wasted and slept together on the first night. We then kept in touch and met several times after that. We enjoyed to be together and we spent more than a year and it was great !

My actual girlfriend I met her in a bar as well, I went to talk to her, she was shy, I just offered her a drink, chat all night and got her number. We are together for about 2 years and everything is fine.

Another friend met his girfriend in Gullivers in Khaosan, she is from isaan and a middle class as well with a really good job. She doesn't ask him any money since she do more than well by herself and they are together for more than 2 years as well. She had farang boyfriend before for more than 2 years and she is not a farang hunter.

I don't find it difficult to meet middle class girls, especially in Bangkok. I have also dated a middle-hiso chinese thai who was way richer than I am. We broke up about several months because I couldn't bear her behavior against other people who are not rich as she is (as her family).

So if you don't have problem to date girl back home I don't think it would be difficult to date middle class here and their English is usually really good which allows you to have nice and entertaining conversation with them

[belg]

hi/so and family...

if you are not "rich" , they will look down on you

and prefer not to see their daughter get married to you

my MIL is a second wife (mia noi) , dad in law swings between his wife (office mainly now, they have 3 kids and control his business) and mia noi (MIL). She controls him with a magical spell (lol) or the man just follows his DICK

that guy spends literally hundreds of thousands of baht with that woman.... trips to USA (she made him buy a 20 million baht house), hong kong & japan (at least once's per month) in the best of hotels & restaurants & spa's

the BITCH never worked a day in her life, except on her back, that is, and dares to look down on me as I don't have millions of (dollars or euros) whatever

so after my 10 year marriage, divorce is comming up soon, as my wife became a PIG, both in body & specially in a very nasty attitude

and my next one, will be one that is not middle or hi-so, been there, done that

so I can play more : my way or the high way if disrispect shows his ugly neck

if all of them want money and seems to be the main raison to live, better have one you can use for the good sex and sex bye bye when it is time for another one

[stix9]

This topic is certainly self sorting the Men from the...errr... boyz....

One of the sign posts I have personally encountered has been the TG's invitation to an event, initially leading one to believe she will be unaccompanied, but then, closer to the meeting ("inquisition") time there is the gratuitous announcement that one or more of her friends will be coming along as well.

Whats the rationale behind this later announcement of additional company?

[beb]

Hope this helps all thai women come with history sams as the guys that come here

I met a woman in isan on line she was my soul mate done all the visas for the uk .But she will also love her mam and family more she had a shop found out she was bankrupt in the mean time I was promised land as a wedding present ohhhhh here we go built the house found out my wife got cancer

mother said go an ...... you self its my land therefoe my house looked after my wife went back on line found a well educated school teacher 38 stunner mother a teacher retired father dead was a policeman

Now see how see dresses and act in public clue is she thinks she must be this way of kind but to show here status as a teacher shes kind but really comes over as classy go back home and we shower in a shed just be careful here the lucky guys are realy lucky the rose tinted spectacle guys they get stung what ever class

Punctuation is our friend.

[beb]

Edited March 19, 2014 by beb

[Runamile]

Moto77 I think your corrective is right - we're talking more So-So than Hi-So!

Whatever, I, accidently, discovered the secret, today, with Hi-So, So-So, indeed Any-So.

I'm in China at this moment. I walked through the financial district of Jinan carrying a heavy black metal case (in fact a flash generator and head). You should have seen the looks at the guy with the case-full of money so heavy it was difficult to carry! Women of every sort, but mostly wealthy-looking, appeared ready to throw their phone number at me. I suspect it would be the same in Bangkok!

[dighambara]

I have been here many years and I have met many well educated "upper class" women.

Never have I considered the word 'reserved' to apply 'Coy, perhaps, but never reserved...

[dotpoom]

"From day 1, the plan was to get a girlfriend that was a 'good girl' and to not get scammed"

If a man has to be told that by his friends ...I can only say...."God help today's men.

[ggt]

Walk along Pattaya Beach in a hot mini-skirt...high heel shoes...low cut dress...and say "Welcome"...

[smotherb]

I pity the man who think it's that easy to put a whole social group in a box and label it with a 1 liner.

Op has gotten very lucky to get some decent advise before the usual crowds come in. It's true most good girls won't go out much, but I know some exceptions. Just like I know exceptions to the 'middle/upper class girls don't date farang' statement.

My advise. Learn thai, learn the culture and spend 10 days in and temple ands that's an important part of thai culture and you will get a lot of credit for doing it and learning how it works.

Some good advice there, especially, learning the culture and language.

Of course there are exceptions--Thai middle/upper class women do date and marry falangs. My son is married to a lovely middle-class Thai girl, educated, good job and he met her through a classmate. She was his second Thai girlfriend, the first was an upper-class Thai girl. Perhaps its hereditary, his mother, my second Southeast Asian wife, is also educated with a good job and from a middle-class family. My first Southeast Asian wife was upper-class. Perhaps its a personal thing, but I like good girls. Ladies of negotiable virtue have their place . . .

Edited March 19, 2014 by smotherb

[wileycoyote]

In a nutshell, they don't usually date us!!

I have lived and worked in Thailand for about six years (but only joined this forum today!) and I have to say that 90% of my friends and colleagues are not married to middle/upper class Thais.

Your question did interest me though, as i have read the forums here now and again for a few years, and usually laugh my arse off at either very naive or very stupid people dating bar girls. (Sometimes i think its just trolls writing the stories, but some of them are very entertaining)

When i first arrived in Thailand, I was just 23 but met a couple of young guys (roughly 30ish) that had been living in Bangkok for a little over a year, and they really schooled me on the do's and dont's of dating here. To be honest i dont really know who taught them, but i listened and pretty much followed their 'rules'.

From day 1, the plan was to get a girlfriend that was a 'good girl' and to not get scammed.

A few things that I was told to do to achieve this, I pretty much lived by. And just for your general amusement here were a few key rules.

1. Don't date ANYBODY that you meet in ANY KIND of bar.

2. Don't date anybody from Isaan. (You'll just end up supporting the family)

3. Don't date any girls that have had farang boyfriends before. (These were called 'farang hunters')

4. Don't date any girl that thinks its original to slate their ex-Thai boyfriends saying that farang men are more faithful. Thais don't believe that for a second!!

5. And if a girl sleeps with you the first time you meet her, well, would you be impressed by that back home?

Probably very amusing, but the plan worked.

One of my friends (from the original two) married a very well to do Thai lady. He only dated her for about a year before they got married. He met her family after about six months, and to be honest, I noticed that being involved with the family and making a good effort to learn Thai and impress even the Grandmother went a long way to achieving his goal. He met his wife-to-be as she was working in the same office as him (no internet dating or meeting in a bar).Her family even provided the Sin Sot at the wedding to make themselves look good. He was only asked for a certain amount of cash to be put in to her account so they could start their married lives with a few baht in their pocket. All the wads of cash and gold bars were provided by the family.

Clues? I can't help with, but from my experience, middle/upper class Thai ladies (traditional) don't like to be out much in the evenings. They sure as shit don't have tattoo's or smoke. And something which i feel you can really gauge there social status from is there eating habits. My girlfriend is horrified even seeing Thai people on T.V. eating with their mouth open.

I have been dating a 'middle class' lady for about three years now. She is a solicitor which i met through a friend of a friend, we talk about marriage sometimes but to answer your initial question there is no set answer.

I truly believe the family probably value marriage a lot more than the average Thai lady nowadays. Just like back home, marriage is becoming non-essential with more educated people.

(I know I didn’t really answer your questions, but I hope I put a smile on your face)

Good Posting ,and so true

[moto77]

This topic is certainly self sorting the Men from the...errr... boyz....

One of the sign posts I have personally encountered has been the TG's invitation to an event, initially leading one to believe she will be unaccompanied, but then, closer to the meeting ("inquisition") time there is the gratuitous announcement that one or more of her friends will be coming along as well.

Whats the rationale behind this later announcement of additional company?

1. To make her more comfortable with you at first (safety)

2. To make sure her friends approve.

3. To make sure you go home separately that night.

[Runamile]

Moto77 You've got al the angles covered there.

What interests me is that the announcement is always later, showing, I presume, that there's some recognition that this is inappropriate in a Western cultural context.

I made a horrid mistake about this one time. I had a date. Cousin arrived, too. "Here we go again". Through clenched teeth - "Hello, cousin". In honesty, even knowing the cultural context, I was more than a little rude. Which is when I was told that cousin was covering for my date, phones were exchanged, and cousin walked off with several of them, on her way to the workplace. Ground open up and swallow me! OK, it didn't, but the whole date was punctuated by my saying, every few minutes, "be sure to thank your cousin for tonight".

[inzman]

I don't think anybody wants to wait 5 dates for a kiss, and it ain't the 1800's. hi-so girl, what exactly is that? In the USA we call that type of bitch high maintenance, and nobody wants one of those. If you want a hi-so girl for money, then I think your a sad son-of-a-bitch. My girl is just fine for me and she don't ask for nothing, but works hard all week. And she does have a degree. But i wouldn't call her hi-so cause she is a down to earth, girl next door type. Up to you.

[moto77]

I don't think anybody wants to wait 5 dates for a kiss, and it ain't the 1800's. hi-so girl, what exactly is that? In the USA we call that type of bitch high maintenance, and nobody wants one of those. If you want a hi-so girl for money, then I think your a sad son-of-a-bitch. My girl is just fine for me and she don't ask for nothing, but works hard all week. And she does have a degree. But i wouldn't call her hi-so cause she is a down to earth, girl next door type. Up to you.

You don't have a clue what you are talking about. But I suppose that won't stop you...

[moto77]

In a nutshell, they don't usually date us!!

I have lived and worked in Thailand for about six years (but only joined this forum today!) and I have to say that 90% of my friends and colleagues are not married to middle/upper class Thais.

Your question did interest me though, as i have read the forums here now and again for a few years, and usually laugh my arse off at either very naive or very stupid people dating bar girls. (Sometimes i think its just trolls writing the stories, but some of them are very entertaining)

When i first arrived in Thailand, I was just 23 but met a couple of young guys (roughly 30ish) that had been living in Bangkok for a little over a year, and they really schooled me on the do's and dont's of dating here. To be honest i dont really know who taught them, but i listened and pretty much followed their 'rules'.

From day 1, the plan was to get a girlfriend that was a 'good girl' and to not get scammed.

A few things that I was told to do to achieve this, I pretty much lived by. And just for your general amusement here were a few key rules.

1. Don't date ANYBODY that you meet in ANY KIND of bar.

2. Don't date anybody from Isaan. (You'll just end up supporting the family)

3. Don't date any girls that have had farang boyfriends before. (These were called 'farang hunters')

4. Don't date any girl that thinks its original to slate their ex-Thai boyfriends saying that farang men are more faithful. Thais don't believe that for a second!!

5. And if a girl sleeps with you the first time you meet her, well, would you be impressed by that back home?

Probably very amusing, but the plan worked.

One of my friends (from the original two) married a very well to do Thai lady. He only dated her for about a year before they got married. He met her family after about six months, and to be honest, I noticed that being involved with the family and making a good effort to learn Thai and impress even the Grandmother went a long way to achieving his goal. He met his wife-to-be as she was working in the same office as him (no internet dating or meeting in a bar).Her family even provided the Sin Sot at the wedding to make themselves look good. He was only asked for a certain amount of cash to be put in to her account so they could start their married lives with a few baht in their pocket. All the wads of cash and gold bars were provided by the family.

Clues? I can't help with, but from my experience, middle/upper class Thai ladies (traditional) don't like to be out much in the evenings. They sure as shit don't have tattoo's or smoke. And something which i feel you can really gauge there social status from is there eating habits. My girlfriend is horrified even seeing Thai people on T.V. eating with their mouth open.

I have been dating a 'middle class' lady for about three years now. She is a solicitor which i met through a friend of a friend, we talk about marriage sometimes but to answer your initial question there is no set answer.

I truly believe the family probably value marriage a lot more than the average Thai lady nowadays. Just like back home, marriage is becoming non-essential with more educated people.

(I know I didn’t really answer your questions, but I hope I put a smile on your face)

Why don't the mods just make this a sticky as this stereo-typical clap-trap is repeated over and over again on here and in this case sounds like it was written by someone born in the 40's! Just pompous ! Your 2 thirty something gurus told you that because they were told that and no doubt feel 'local' passing it on. Sadly it means you've probably missed making some very worthwhile friends.

Is it only Thai bar girls or ALL bar girls you have a problem with ? I love the pride in which you pronounce you are dating a solicitor yet I'll have a small wager with you there are as many solicitors in jail for embezzlement as there are bar girls. I'll have a larger wager that bar girls are treated with less distrust in the UK than solicitors on a par with estate agents - so what's your point ?

What percentage of these bar girls do you think like their job or are doing it out of loyalty to their family (which a westerner wouldn't be prepared to do in a million years) and would give up their right arm to lead a 'normal life' ? Of course there are bad eggs out there as in any country but I know many 'bar girls' I would trust my life savings with! Or perhaps you think the West is devoid of scheming little minxes after a quick buck from gullible men and this is exclusively a Thai 'problem'? I once tried to get a girl out of Soi Cowboy with a 50,000 offer but was told no way (and I'm not your normal balding overweight heart attack waiting to happen!)

I have a friend who met a cashier in a bar EIGHT years ago, I've grilled him extensively on this as I'm 5 years behind him, it transpires she's one of the sweetest girls I've ever met with a heart of pure gold - he visits her (poor) family and has never been asked for a bean, his only expense being he likes to take the whole family to a local hotel for dinner once or twice a year for which he's warmly thanked. The payback for the family is the sheer joy that at least one of their offspring has an escape route from the life many of them have led. No moped, no buffalo, no 4x4 - even when he's offered, her brothers have said they can take care of it. Guess what surprise surprise I'm having the same experience - wow what are the chances of lightning striking in the same place twice with the evil thai girl!

I'm sure you can match that with horrific tales (Private Dancer stylee type) but your stereo typical rants are just that - rants !

A FOOL AND HIS MONEY ARE SOON PARTED - it doesn't matter whether its Thailand, US, UK or Mogadishu !! Take a day off from slaughtering the Thais who haven't had the best start in life but ARE prepared to do whatever it takes to try and eek out a way forward for their families!

To try and throw every group of people, or one enormous region, into one basket is ludicrous in the extreme.

OP - Solicitor, Bar Girl, Architect, 7Eleven checkout girl - there is no difference - they are all human beings. To exclude or elect one of them based on their past life is likely to lead you down a very lonely path!

Yes, in many ways you are right. They are not all bad. As I said I know a few people that are married to former bar girls and they seem to be happy.

It's just that some people don't want to date someone whose slept with half the tourists in Bangkok. I don't blame them for the choice they felt they had to make, but that's not something I personally can get beyond.

[stoli]

It is a good question, and I have been dealing with it for a year now. By accident, I met a girl, 26 years old, with her parents. She asked for my number and started calling me. They are a wealthy family, and she started inviting me to their home where her family was always present. After two months she invited me to Bangkok to visit the temples on Makha Bucha. Separate rooms, and shared costs. She then asked if I like to travel, and we went to Vietnam. Separate costs. She always paid her own way. I eventually was to meet her friends that she went to the university with, and all of the family friends. She, and her parents, want her to marry a falang. We since have traveled more, still paying our own costs, and after 8 months it became sexual. It is possible to find a non-beer bar girl, or professional, in Pattaya. Even a very beautiful, intelligent one. Just wish she had the maturity of a 36 year old, and wasn't 26. That is the difficult part. I am too old to want to go out dancing at clubs.

[moto77]

It is a good question, and I have been dealing with it for a year now. By accident, I met a girl, 26 years old, with her parents. She asked for my number and started calling me. They are a wealthy family, and she started inviting me to their home where her family was always present. After two months she invited me to Bangkok to visit the temples on Makha Bucha. Separate rooms, and shared costs. She then asked if I like to travel, and we went to Vietnam. Separate costs. She always paid her own way. I eventually was to meet her friends that she went to the university with, and all of the family friends. She, and her parents, want her to marry a falang. We since have traveled more, still paying our own costs, and after 8 months it became sexual. It is possible to find a non-beer bar girl, or professional, in Pattaya. Even a very beautiful, intelligent one. Just wish she had the maturity of a 36 year old, and wasn't 26. That is the difficult part. I am too old to want to go out dancing at clubs.

Wow. Eight months. And that guy didn't believe it took me 5 dates to get a kiss. You're like a saint. But congrats for sticking it out.

Sounds like a nice girl--try to find a way to do things that each other like sometimes. Maybe go to a club now and then and ask her to do something you like sometimes. You might find you enjoy it more than you think.

[mesquite]

It is a good question, and I have been dealing with it for a year now. By accident, I met a girl, 26 years old, with her parents. She asked for my number and started calling me. They are a wealthy family, and she started inviting me to their home where her family was always present. After two months she invited me to Bangkok to visit the temples on Makha Bucha. Separate rooms, and shared costs. She then asked if I like to travel, and we went to Vietnam. Separate costs. She always paid her own way. I eventually was to meet her friends that she went to the university with, and all of the family friends. She, and her parents, want her to marry a falang. We since have traveled more, still paying our own costs, and after 8 months it became sexual. It is possible to find a non-beer bar girl, or professional, in Pattaya. Even a very beautiful, intelligent one. Just wish she had the maturity of a 36 year old, and wasn't 26. That is the difficult part. I am too old to want to go out dancing at clubs.

I doubt if you'll ever find that in any Thai woman. They're all like children. I had a 40 year old who had two children. My gf was old enough to be a grandmother. At times she was like she was five years old, and I don't mean acting like a little girl to get her way. My buddies with Thai wives have similar stories. They're wired differently and there is an immaturity there that is both appealing and frightening when you realize you are dealing with the emotions and outlook of a little girl.

[moto77]

Just wish she had the maturity of a 36 year old, and wasn't 26.

I doubt if you'll ever find that in any Thai woman. They're all like children. I had a 40 year old who had two children. My gf was old enough to be a grandmother. At times she was like she was five years old, and I don't mean acting like a little girl to get her way. My buddies with Thai wives have similar stories. They're wired differently and there is an immaturity there that is both appealing and frightening when you realize you are dealing with the emotions and outlook of a little girl.

You can find it. I have many female Thai friends that are very much grownups. Many of them are in the 40-50 year age category and act like it. A few are mid 30s and act like it as well.

But yes, MANY Thai women act (and look, BTW) many years younger than they actually are. Again, the polar extreme thing I mentioned before. This can be awesome when the immaturity is fun and playful. It will keep you young. But on the other hand, when the immaturity is malevolent, it will age you beyond your years.

Take your time and choose your relationships wisely. That's good advice no matter what country you are in.

[mesquite]

Just wish she had the maturity of a 36 year old, and wasn't 26.

I doubt if you'll ever find that in any Thai woman. They're all like children. I had a 40 year old who had two children. My gf was old enough to be a grandmother. At times she was like she was five years old, and I don't mean acting like a little girl to get her way. My buddies with Thai wives have similar stories. They're wired differently and there is an immaturity there that is both appealing and frightening when you realize you are dealing with the emotions and outlook of a little girl.

You can find it. I have many female Thai friends that are very much grownups. Many of them are in the 40-50 year age category and act like it. A few are mid 30s and act like it as well.

But yes, MANY Thai women act (and look, BTW) many years younger than they actually are. Again, the polar extreme thing I mentioned before. This can be awesome when the immaturity is fun and playful. It will keep you young. But on the other hand, when the immaturity is malevolent, it will age you beyond your years.

Take your time and choose your relationships wisely. That's good advice no matter what country you are in.

I'm not talking about how they act or social maturity. I'm talking about their inner being, something one cannot see when the relationship is only friendship or only sexual.

[moto77]

Moto77 You've got al the angles covered there.

What interests me is that the announcement is always later, showing, I presume, that there's some recognition that this is inappropriate in a Western cultural context.

I made a horrid mistake about this one time. I had a date. Cousin arrived, too. "Here we go again". Through clenched teeth - "Hello, cousin". In honesty, even knowing the cultural context, I was more than a little rude. Which is when I was told that cousin was covering for my date, phones were exchanged, and cousin walked off with several of them, on her way to the workplace. Ground open up and swallow me! OK, it didn't, but the whole date was punctuated by my saying, every few minutes, "be sure to thank your cousin for tonight".

Been thinking about this one. I think they mention it later because it is hard for them to announce this when you ask them out and Thais tend to avoid uncomfortable social situations like the plague for as long as possible. When it is time to meet it can no longer be put off any longer, she finally has to mention that "I'm bringing a friend." Or maybe just show up with a friend and hope you won't mind.

It might be inappropriate in a Western context, but in this case the context is not Western. I've always thought: I am the foreigner here so it is me who must adapt. Maybe if she came looking for a BF in the West, it would be her responsibility to adapt to our norms.

Think of it this way: If she was dating a Thai guy, there would be no need to mention it. He would already know that a "good girl" is going to bring a friend on a first (and probably second, third, etc.) date and he may even have told her up front to bring a friend. (And yes, this does happen in Thai-Thai relationships as well.)

Edited March 19, 2014 by moto77

[moto77]

I'm not talking about how they act or social maturity. I'm talking about their inner being, something one cannot see when the relationship is only friendship or only sexual.

Hmm... interesting. I'll have to give that some thought.

[hhgz]

Why do you think a woman of that level would want to be with a farang man?

Edited March 20, 2014 by hhgz

[moto77]

Why do you think a woman of that level would want to be with a farang man?

What an odd question. Because she liked him?

Why do women normally want to be with you?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Bender]

In a nutshell, they don't usually date us!!

I have lived and worked in Thailand for about six years (but only joined this forum today!) and I have to say that 90% of my friends and colleagues are not married to middle/upper class Thais.

Your question did interest me though, as i have read the forums here now and again for a few years, and usually laugh my arse off at either very naive or very stupid people dating bar girls.

When i first arrived in Thailand, I was just 23 but met a couple of young guys (roughly 30ish) that had been living in Bangkok for a little over a year, and they really schooled me on the do's and dont's of dating here. To be honest i dont really know who taught them, but i listened and pretty much followed their 'rules'.

funny thing, we did follow the same path,

when i come here i was a few years older than you,

I did live and worked here a lit bit longer

and i joined recently, and i agree with your post

.... and yes to sum up, only deluded, desperate, silly, old foreigner do think that upper class thai girls are chasing them. But that a really long story!

There are more than 30 millions thai men here, thai girls are have the choice.For most thai normal girl, foreigner is not a good or bad choice. Its not even a choice... That another story!

[moto77]

I've observed that most of the posts that say you can't date an educated, middle class Thai woman also contain bad grammar, no punctation, and/or are generally incomprehensible for one reason or another.

On the other hand, most of those that say the opposite are well written.

Coincidence?

[stix9]

Another signpost very early in the courtship behaviours of these "beautiful aliens" is a sudden, uninvited showing of photos of their family and their circumstances.

This display is similar to the "unannounced friends" scenario in its suddenness and it can almost feel out of context with the social moment at the time.

This methodology may reflect their inner nervousness because of the significance of this act to them, albeit unknown to the oblivious falang at the time.

[moto77]

Another signpost very early in the courtship behaviours of these "beautiful aliens" is a sudden, uninvited showing of photos of their family and their circumstances.

This display is similar to the "unannounced friends" scenario in its suddenness and it can almost feel out of context with the social moment at the time.

This methodology may reflect their inner nervousness because of the significance of this act to them, albeit unknown to the oblivious falang at the time.

"uninvited showing of photos?"

What do you mean by that? I can't remember anyone showing me family photos on a date before--unless I asked.

[stix9]

On the occasions I experienced this, I didn't ask to see the family photos. Its was a very direct approach from the TG.

In my cases it happened after a few meetings together.

I guess it may symbolise some preliminary acceptance of the falang and she then wants to test the waters further.