Why Don't Christian Missionaries Tip?

[uptheos]

Maybe these missionaries think they are doing the right thing.

During the sermon on the mount, Jesus elevated the poor --- including those who are hungry, those who weep, those who are hated or looked down on---to the very highest spiritual rank, the “blessed”.

Maybe they want them to stay poor and 'blessed'.

[Jimjim]

I am always hearing about following Thai culture. Tipping is not part of Thai culture and is only founf in tourist areas. The answer to your question is no tip is required.

Neither is Christianity but they don't seem bothered about interfering with one of the deepest aspects of the Thai culture. Also wrong about tipping outside of the tourist areas. Every Thai colleage I've gone out for dinner with from the university will leave a tip.

That's an incorrect and bigoted comment. Christianity is part of Thai culture albeit a small one. A small percentage of Thais are Christians. Yes, Christianity came from out of the country and not from Asia (Came from the Middle East originally, however), but didn't Buddhism and Islam also originally come from areas that aren't Thailand? Yes, they did. Christian missionaries have every right to be here just as the original Buddhists and Muslims did who originally spread these religions to the area. Just because many countries are now dominated by certain religions does not mean those of other religions cannot work in the name of their religion in those countries. And Thailand is open and tolerant of missionaries. You can find those of Eastern religions spreading their religious beliefs in the West so why not the other way around? Many expats serious distaste for Christian missionaries and attempts to say that they don't belong here just baffles me. I don't tell the Hare Krishnas trying to force books upon me and then ask for a "donation" in LAX airport in the U.S. to go away because they are not a deeply rooted part of the culture, and likewise Thailand does not demand that missionaries of other religions leave Thailand. Unlike many expats, as a very general rule Thai Buddhists are quite tolerant of other religions. Of course, not all fit this stereotype either. Stereotypes and generalizations are bad in general.

And, getting away from religion entirely, how about ethnicity. All those who are not Thai, all you farangs, please get out as you are not Thai and thus don't represent the deeply rooted Thai culture (obviously I'm being sarcastic). Ok?

Also, the OP's stereotyping and over-generalizing of Christian missionaries by lumping them all into the same box by his/her limited observations show some ignorance as well. The terms "christian" and "missionary" are just too broad. Where's the love, people?

[Ulysses G.]

Rapes/attacks/murders of Fallang were extremely rare 15 plus years ago in Thailand.

I disagree with this. Lets not forget how we hear about such things- through the media and friends. For those here for awhle, they'll have a larger number of friends, and anyone who was living here 15 years ago had NO internet... In my experience, there are around the same number of rapes/attacks/murders for the whole period...

Ajarn is right as usual!

[Onnutrd]

I like good food and I don't have any place to cook so I eat out 3 times a day.

I am not overly fond of Thai food - although I love Japanese, Chinese, Indian etc. - , so I avoid it most of the time and frequent Chiang Mai's best Farang restaurants, as well as other cuisines.

These Farang places are packed with missionaries and their families much of the time, and they seem to move mostly between the same 4 or 5 places that I go to most.

The staff in these places tell me that virtually none of the Christians leave any tip - at all - although they are quite demanding, and are almost always in very large groups that are difficult to serve.

Everyone knows that Thai workers make very little money and, in general, they are sweet, helpful people. These missionaries seem to live high-on-the-hog. If they have to eat out, why can't they spare a few baht for serving staff that are making almost nothing?

What ever happened to Chritian charity?

I can't answer your question exactly, but I can give some insight into it.

A year ago when I was still in New Zealand, my Pastor asked me if I wanted to be a Missionary in China as part of my university studies there, and I was told about how much support (money etc..) I would receive from the church, whilst in China.

It was hardly enough to cover my own meals, but lucky for me I was on a scholarship (so the Chinese government paid all my expenses), and my church told me that my allowance from the church is for getting to know other students, buying them stuff (dinner), and like that..

My point is..

I dont think Missionaries are paid to come to Thailand. They're simply here because their church would like them to participate in Christian teaching in Thailand, and their church supplies their basic needs and covers their basic expenses. So, depending on how rich or how poor their church's financial state is, they may need to be quite modest with their 'allowance'.

Also, it might not have anything to do with being a Missionary. In New Zealand, we don't 'tip' any worker for anything, and if they did, it might be taken as an insult. As a result, some Missionaries may not tip, becuase in their country it's not a custom. I think that is quite reasonable to understand.

However, I do grant the idea that a Missionary should do more than expected, and, if tipping is a way which breaks the 'barrier' to get to know an individual, then perhaps a 'tip' is a good way.

Personally, I expect those Missionaries to be doing something active with the allowance their Church supplies them with, like buying some Thai kid a gift etc...

[toptuan]

I am always hearing about following Thai culture. Tipping is not part of Thai culture and is only founf in tourist areas. The answer to your question is no tip is required.

Neither is Christianity but they don't seem bothered about interfering with one of the deepest aspects of the Thai culture. Also wrong about tipping outside of the tourist areas. Every Thai colleage I've gone out for dinner with from the university will leave a tip.

That's an incorrect and bigoted comment. Christianity is part of Thai culture albeit a small one. A small percentage of Thais are Christians. Yes, Christianity came from out of the country and not from Asia (Came from the Middle East originally, however), but didn't Buddhism and Islam also originally come from areas that aren't Thailand? Yes, they did. Christian missionaries have every right to be here just as the original Buddhists and Muslims did who originally spread these religions to the area. Just because many countries are now dominated by certain religions does not mean those of other religions cannot work in the name of their religion in those countries. And Thailand is open and tolerant of missionaries. You can find those of Eastern religions spreading their religious beliefs in the West so why not the other way around? Many expats serious distaste for Christian missionaries and attempts to say that they don't belong here just baffles me. I don't tell the Hare Krishnas trying to force books upon me and then ask for a "donation" in LAX airport in the U.S. to go away because they are not a deeply rooted part of the culture, and likewise Thailand does not demand that missionaries of other religions leave Thailand. Unlike many expats, as a very general rule Thai Buddhists are quite tolerant of other religions. Of course, not all fit this stereotype either. Stereotypes and generalizations are bad in general.

And, getting away from religion entirely, how about ethnicity. All those who are not Thai, all you farangs, please get out as you are not Thai and thus don't represent the deeply rooted Thai culture (obviously I'm being sarcastic). Ok?

Also, the OP's stereotyping and over-generalizing of Christian missionaries by lumping them all into the same box by his/her limited observations show some ignorance as well. The terms "christian" and "missionary" are just too broad. Where's the love, people?

JimJim, you hit the nail on the head!

It just seems that TV has an unusually large share of anti-religious bigots. Something we and the Thai just live with, I guess!

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I am always hearing about following Thai culture. Tipping is not part of Thai culture and is only founf in tourist areas. The answer to your question is no tip is required.

Neither is Christianity but they don't seem bothered about interfering with one of the deepest aspects of the Thai culture. Also wrong about tipping outside of the tourist areas. Every Thai colleage I've gone out for dinner with from the university will leave a tip.

That's an incorrect and bigoted comment. Christianity is part of Thai culture albeit a small one. A small percentage of Thais are Christians. Yes, Christianity came from out of the country and not from Asia (Came from the Middle East originally, however), but didn't Buddhism and Islam also originally come from areas that aren't Thailand? Yes, they did. Christian missionaries have every right to be here just as the original Buddhists and Muslims did who originally spread these religions to the area. Just because many countries are now dominated by certain religions does not mean those of other religions cannot work in the name of their religion in those countries. And Thailand is open and tolerant of missionaries. You can find those of Eastern religions spreading their religious beliefs in the West so why not the other way around? Many expats serious distaste for Christian missionaries and attempts to say that they don't belong here just baffles me. I don't tell the Hare Krishnas trying to force books upon me and then ask for a "donation" in LAX airport in the U.S. to go away because they are not a deeply rooted part of the culture, and likewise Thailand does not demand that missionaries of other religions leave Thailand. Unlike many expats, as a very general rule Thai Buddhists are quite tolerant of other religions. Of course, not all fit this stereotype either. Stereotypes and generalizations are bad in general.

And, getting away from religion entirely, how about ethnicity. All those who are not Thai, all you farangs, please get out as you are not Thai and thus don't represent the deeply rooted Thai culture (obviously I'm being sarcastic). Ok?

Also, the OP's stereotyping and over-generalizing of Christian missionaries by lumping them all into the same box by his/her limited observations show some ignorance as well. The terms "christian" and "missionary" are just too broad. Where's the love, people?

JimJim, you hit the nail on the head!

It just seems that TV has an unusually large share of anti-religious bigots. Something we and the Thai just live with, I guess!

Hey you guys need to lighten up on Christians. I myself am agnostic but any student of history can point to Christian movements in the USA that ended slavery, ended child labor, allowed labor unions, womens sufferage and the equal rights amendment. These movements spread over the world and Thailand abolished slavery in 1917 or there abouts.

I know a number of disabled refugees from Myanmar in Chiang Mai and they are devoted Christians because they are the only entity who cares about them. Thailand's Buddhist xenophobia treats them with complete indifference. They are just filling a void the racist Thai's cannot fill now. What's more important? big generous tippers or caring about the forgotten non Thai non buddhist refugees?

Edited January 6, 2008 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[Puwa]

Just because many countries are now dominated by certain religions does not mean those of other religions cannot work in the name of their religion in those countries.

I wrote a long reply to this thread, but then just finally condensed it to the few lines below.

Let me preface my comment by declaring that I am an atheist, always have been and always will be. At the same time, I have studied formally the history, sociology, and theology of Christianity as well as other religions, and I respect any person's right to believe or practice his faith, so long as he abides by (secular) law.

Anyway, Jimjim is right. From a historical perspective, virtually all religions promote and sustain themselves through some form of proselytizing. Hence the expansion of any faith from its individual or communal beginnings to much wider acceptance and devotion. This is a social and historical fact. However it doesn't shed any light on the real question at hand, which is whether the role that missionaries play in society warrants the special treatment they sometimes enjoy.

Critics often attack missionaries by demeaning their beliefs, which to me is an intolerant thing to do, when in fact what they intend is to point out an ethical contradiction between the goal of serving the needy and the tactics missionaries employ, or the lifestyles they enjoy. Put simply, they focus on what is annoying (such as not tipping in restaurants) rather than what is harmful: manipulating people and exploiting their tolerance and vulnerability. For their part, missionaries respond by defending their right to proselytize, which also misses the point. Instead, they should reflect on how to be of greatest value to the entire society, rather than just sustaining themselves in their own self-interested communities and the ostensive worldviews they promote.

[Ulysses G.]

Also, the OP's stereotyping and over-generalizing of Christian missionaries by lumping them all into the same box by his/her limited observations show some ignorance as well. The terms "christian" and "missionary" are just too broad.

I have nothing against Christians nor missionaries. I was raised as a Roman Catholic and at least three of my friends here are missionaries of different types. I am only objecting to the type who can afford to spend lots of time in expensive restaurants running the staff ragged, but can't afford to leave a small tip to compensate the underpaid workers for their efforts.

[tigerbeer]

Also, the OP's stereotyping and over-generalizing of Christian missionaries by lumping them all into the same box by his/her limited observations show some ignorance as well. The terms "christian" and "missionary" are just too broad.

I have nothing against Christians nor missionaries. I was raised as a Roman Catholic and at least three of my friends here are missionaries of different types. I am only objecting to the type who can afford to spend lots of time in expensive restaurants running the staff ragged, but can't afford to leave a small tip to compensate the underpaid workers for their efforts.

why do you think they are underpaid UG? what are you comparing their salary scale to?

[canuckamuck]

I know at least 5 engineers that never seem to tip. This is an outrage, why do the Thais tolerate their coming here and changing the Thai culture. Bridges built with bamboo have worked for centuries. Thais don't need western interference, western ideals. Next they will try to fix the traffic. Arrogant sods!

[Ulysses G.]

Also, the OP's stereotyping and over-generalizing of Christian missionaries by lumping them all into the same box by his/her limited observations show some ignorance as well. The terms "christian" and "missionary" are just too broad.

I have nothing against Christians nor missionaries. I was raised as a Roman Catholic and at least three of my friends here are missionaries of different types. I am only objecting to the type who can afford to spend lots of time in expensive restaurants running the staff ragged, but can't afford to leave a small tip to compensate the underpaid workers for their efforts.

why do you think they are underpaid UG? what are you comparing their salary scale to?

The penny-pinching missionaries that they have to wait on!

Edited January 7, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[tigerbeer]

Hey you guys need to lighten up on Christians. I myself am agnostic but any student of history can point to Christian movements in the USA that ended slavery, ended child labor, allowed labor unions, womens sufferage and the equal rights amendment. These movements spread over the world and Thailand abolished slavery in 1917 or there abouts.

I know a number of disabled refugees from Myanmar in Chiang Mai and they are devoted Christians because they are the only entity who cares about them. Thailand's Buddhist xenophobia treats them with complete indifference. They are just filling a void the racist Thai's cannot fill now. What's more important? big generous tippers or caring about the forgotten non Thai non buddhist refugees?

being opportunists.

[meadish_sweetball]

I know at least 5 engineers that never seem to tip. This is an outrage, why do the Thais tolerate their coming here and changing the Thai culture. Bridges built with bamboo have worked for centuries. Thais don't need western interference, western ideals. Next they will try to fix the traffic. Arrogant sods!

Not that good an analogy.

Bridge building technology and traffic regulations are as related to religious beliefs as Charlie Chaplin's big toe is to your opinion on classical music.

[canuckamuck]

You might have noted it was cynical not analytical. And in my opinion you have it back to front. Moral constructs have a much larger effect on quality of life than do bricks and mortar.

The premise for Christian bashing here is thread bare, however those who are desperate for an outlet for their bigotry have taken it wholeheartedly.

In the defense of the OP, it seems that he has mellowed a bit in his negative position since he started this thread in 2006.

I find this thread to be in a very bad spirit, I am not surprised however that it has lingered so long.

Edited January 7, 2008 by canuckamuck

[meadish_sweetball]

Believe it or not, I am generally not very fond of bashing either, whether it be of missionaries, Christians, Buddhists, book shop owners, or Thais and their culture.

To paraphrase a thought-provoking book, why is it that we humans so easily see the splinter in our neighbour's eye, but fail to recognize the plank in our own?

I will now go find myself a carpenter to relieve my itch.

[Ulysses G.]

In the defense of the OP, it seems that he has mellowed a bit in his negative position since he started this thread in 2006.

I find this thread to be in a very bad spirit, I am not surprised however that it has lingered so long.

I certainly wouldn't have brought this thread out of retirement voluntarily!

[meadish_sweetball]

Ok, since the OP seems to have moved on since posting this, and since I think canackamuck has a good point about a great deal of bigotry and vitriol coming to the surface through this thread...

Closed.