Should you accept her Children as part of the package?

[Nautilus05]

I have explained this a couple of times. He doesn't want to be their Father. They have a Father already.

'The way it works' is the point of the thread.

Does it have to work this way? Surely in these modern times of jumbled parentage and multiple marriages the old status quo is up for change?

Again, I really don't know what you're expecting here. I mean, if he goes with her, then all four of them will be sitting at the same table every night for dinner. Going on vacation means all four of them going. Coming home from work means coming home to the lady AND two kids, not just the lady. Going to sleep means making sure the kids are already tucked in, and sleeping first.

If he's not ready for that, tell him to drop the relationship now. Otherwise, he's just going to <deleted> the kids emotionally and mentally by popping into their lives for a while as a father figure (which the kids will see him as), then leaving when he decides it's not for him.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Nautilus05

[MAJIC]

Call me an old softy, but I don't think that I would want a serious relationship with a woman who would abandon her kids for some guy. If it was a short-time relationship, that would be a whole different story.

Exactly! I wouldn't want a a woman who was shallow enough to give up her children for me! or anyone else,I would lose respect for her pretty quickly!

[hotrod4098]

any one taking on a girl who has married a policeman is crazy...

think what the implications could be....money money money...dont pay...could be just 1 phone call to the monkey house....

they are his children..and always will be...so if he wants to see them any time,,he will...

for me its a no way

[Totster]

Thanks for the comment Sheryl.

I'm not sure it is a requirement in life to love someone else's children? I don't now if it can be forced, nor if it should be. I don't love some of my extended family let alone even like them.

In this specific case I'm sure the guy would be fair with them and friendly and affectionate, but as for love, maybe, I cant speak for him on that. Perhaps if he went into it that would happen down the track and he would take on a greater responsibility. (He has two kids of his own, 18 & 20, in Australia, one who lives out of home with his friends , one who lives at home with her mum)

As for not being their father, I totally agree with him. The kids have a father, who they do see, but who doesn't give the mum much money to help. That being the case he doesn't need to fulfill a fatherhood role

His love for her though seems genuine enough.

There is no 'forcing' about it, why would you want to live with your girlfriends/wifes children if you want nothing to do with them. Your friend (or you) needs to end whatever relationship there is now and find some other loveless relationship.

For the fourth time this thread let me clarify: It is not ME my OP refers to. alt=facepalm.gif width=24 height=18> alt=tongue.png width=20 height=20>

I am also asking a general question about such a situation of accepting and becoming responsible for a partner's children, not about this particular woman's honesty or possible hidden intentions

You, by asking opinion obviously feel the same way as your 'friend'. Personally I find the behaviour you are describing despicable, this is a personal opinion of mine and I know that not all people will have the same basic values that I have.

I hear what you are saying Totser but I don’t know why it is disturbing. Here are some common example of Mothers (and fathers) not putting their kids first.

Examples of mothers who don’t put children first (substitute father here for anything):

· Drug addicts (substance comes first)

· Alcoholics (substance comes first)

· Gamblers (money goes to gambling first)

· Many example of children being sold for slavery to work in factories.

· Kids Forced to prostitution

· Taken from school to provide money for the family by working therefore the child does not get an education that could further them.

· Basic narcissism where the mother puts herself first. Becoming more common.

· Mothers who value a balanced life with their spouse and children

· Mothers who decide career comes before children (nothing wrong with that)

· ecetera

Personally I wouldn’t want to be second in a relationship all the time.

By saying you put the kids first all the time it implies you will always be second class in the relationship. Surely that also sends the wrong message to the children?

There are plenty of mothers who give their partners and children fair balance in their life.

Well, you make a very extreme point and are taking cheap shots to try and rationalise your friends (and your?) attitude with this.

Children are children and should be taken care of, of course there are some that have no regard for this basic moral standard and I pity them for it.

totster

[alanrchase]

Why is this so difficult? He loves her she loves him. If it requires him to pay for someone elses kids it is up to him. Give it some serious thought without the purple headed monster.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[BookMan]

Thanks for the comment Sheryl.

I'm not sure it is a requirement in life to love someone else's children? I don't now if it can be forced, nor if it should be. I don't love some of my extended family let alone even like them.

In this specific case I'm sure the guy would be fair with them and friendly and affectionate, but as for love, maybe, I cant speak for him on that. Perhaps if he went into it that would happen down the track and he would take on a greater responsibility. (He has two kids of his own, 18 & 20, in Australia, one who lives out of home with his friends , one who lives at home with her mum)

As for not being their father, I totally agree with him. The kids have a father, who they do see, but who doesn't give the mum much money to help. That being the case he doesn't need to fulfill a fatherhood role

His love for her though seems genuine enough.

There is no 'forcing' about it, why would you want to live with your girlfriends/wifes children if you want nothing to do with them. Your friend (or you) needs to end whatever relationship there is now and find some other loveless relationship.

For the fourth time this thread let me clarify: It is not ME my OP refers to. alt=facepalm.gif width=24 height=18> alt=tongue.png width=20 height=20>

I am also asking a general question about such a situation of accepting and becoming responsible for a partner's children, not about this particular woman's honesty or possible hidden intentions

You, by asking opinion obviously feel the same way as your 'friend'. Personally I find the behaviour you are describing despicable, this is a personal opinion of mine and I know that not all people will have the same basic values that I have.

I hear what you are saying Totser but I don’t know why it is disturbing. Here are some common example of Mothers (and fathers) not putting their kids first.

Examples of mothers who don’t put children first (substitute father here for anything):

· Drug addicts (substance comes first)

· Alcoholics (substance comes first)

· Gamblers (money goes to gambling first)

· Many example of children being sold for slavery to work in factories.

· Kids Forced to prostitution

· Taken from school to provide money for the family by working therefore the child does not get an education that could further them.

· Basic narcissism where the mother puts herself first. Becoming more common.

· Mothers who value a balanced life with their spouse and children

· Mothers who decide career comes before children (nothing wrong with that)

· ecetera

Personally I wouldn’t want to be second in a relationship all the time.

By saying you put the kids first all the time it implies you will always be second class in the relationship. Surely that also sends the wrong message to the children?

There are plenty of mothers who give their partners and children fair balance in their life.

Well, you make a very extreme point and are taking cheap shots to try and rationalise your friends (and your?) attitude with this.

Children are children and should be taken care of, of course there are some that have no regard for this basic moral standard and I pity them for it.

totster

You made a statement and i contradicted it not with cheap shots but reality. It might look like an extreme point but there are millions off examples of those extreme points around us every day. It might seem unpalatable to you but that's just how it is.

Yes, basically my friend and I have similar POVs on this subject and i'm not sure what is despicable about any part of that. Seems a ludicrous assertion on your part. Surely that scorn should be saved for the father of the children? My friend has never said to abandon the children, in fact he has said he will pay rent, food, utilities, that covers the mum AND the kids. A most generous offer I would think. That is despicable to you?

Our opinions do differ in that I believe he should cut his losses now as it is most likely to cause grief and trouble in the near future. He seems unable to cut the ties probably because he is in love. If he had known she had kids he wouldn't have made contact with her in the first place.

Another misconception on this thread is that he asks for my advice. I freely give him advice but he never asks for it and I suspect he rarely takes it on board

If it makes it easier in your mind totser to believe the person in the OP is me then go ahead and believe that. My friend's life has no similarity to my own life and besides stating it numerous times I can do nothing to convince a few paranoid, suspicious and possibly mentally unstable TV members of this fact.

[alanrchase]

Really?

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Totster]

Our opinions do differ in that I believe he should cut his losses now as it is most likely to cause grief and trouble in the near future. He seems unable to cut the ties probably because he is in love. If he had known she had kids he wouldn't have made contact with her in the first place.

Actually.. we hold the same opinion in this... but that was not the original question.

Another misconception on this thread is that he asks for my advice. I freely give him advice but he never asks for it and I suspect he rarely takes it on board

Let's hope so eh?

totster

Edited March 16, 2014 by Totster

[wym]

Haven't read the whole thread, sorry if this is a retread:

If you're after a relatively transactional rent-a-wife scenario you can insist on whatever you like, even her sticking her spawn with grandma while she's attending to your needs, take it or leave it, up to the two of you to work out a deal.

If this is "true love" and you want to make it work as a long-term "normal" relationship - by western standards - you definitely need to take on her kids as if they were your own, best you can. Emotionally, not just financially.

Even so far as adopting them if necessary in order to be ready to bring them back to your home country if circumstances require your return there.

Thai men rarely have any obligation to keep any contact or financially support their spawn after a divorce, and certainly none once their ex has found a new husband. That's just the way the culture works here.

Note that also works to our advantage, for example the fact that now I have full sole custody of my kids I don't have any obligation legally to involve their mother in any major decisions, don't even need to notify her if I feel like moving the family to the other side of the planet.

Of course for the sake of the kids I don't exercise those rights, in fact I have to nag her to spend time with them, but if she wanted to get nasty I could just write her off and never have to see her again, certainly nice to know that option exists.

Edited March 16, 2014 by wym

[falkan]

she is trying to milk the atm-machine.. no thai guy wants a gf/wife with previous kids, she is used material so tell your friend to dump that gold digger asap!

[HooHaa]

love me, love my dog. its that simple.

[NeverSure]

Many Internet ladies with baggage are there for financial reasons only. Thai fathers don't want to know and am sure Thai blokes don't want to know about baggage. So the farang route is the only option for bringing up their kids. Most farangs I know have baggage, including me. In my case the baggage are now 18 and 25 and are a complete pain in the ass.

PS. The baggage will always come before you, beware.

I would drop her like a hot rock. I don't like being deceived.

I write to one of the prettiest and nicest school teachers you've ever seen. This isn't the one I've mentioned in S. Isaan.

This gal was upfront that she has an 8 year old son who means the world to her. She sent me pictures of him and he looks like a really nice boy.

This one also has a master's degree but even so, helping parents, making car payments, supporting herself and her son takes all of her money and she's upfront about that too.

I'd love to post a picture of her because she looks so beautiful but still wholesome.

I'm the liar. I told her I couldn't afford to build her a new home in her village (the truth is that I wouldn't invest in a house in Thailand.) That didn't phase her. She would be very happy with my "limited" 50k baht income (haha) and a decent rental.

In a way I'm truthful in letting her know that's all the money there'd be, while testing her to see if she was wanting only a very rich farang.

[wym]

Plenty of Thai women over 25 don't have children

Plenty but for sure the minority, if they haven't had one by then they're likely to never.

I have explained this a couple of times. He doesn't want to be their Father. They have a Father already.

'The way it works' is the point of the thread.

Does it have to work this way? Surely in these modern times of jumbled parentage and multiple marriages the old status quo is up for change?

The biological father should pay for HIS kids upkeep, but they don't, hence the farang thing.

"Should" according to - who? You? The legal system back home?

Fact is it doesn't happen here, I've never met a Thai who expressed anything other than mild annoyance, mostly shrug resignation to the way things are here.

Sure a THAI could marry a woman and demand as part of the deal that she shove the kids off to relatives he won't have anything to do with them.

As I stated before, a farang doing so is clearly stooping to the same level, IMO would only be appropriate if you were both clear this was a straight transactional rent-a-wife scenario, not in any pretending it's a normal "real" full-on partnership. And being a pr1ck to boot. . .

[sustento]

If finance is all that matters why doesn't the OP just rent a woman by the week?

[gmac]

Many Internet ladies with baggage are there for financial reasons only. Thai fathers don't want to know and am sure Thai blokes don't want to know about baggage. So the farang route is the only option for bringing up their kids. Most farangs I know have baggage, including me. In my case the baggage are now 18 and 25 and are a complete pain in the ass.

PS. The baggage will always come before you, beware.

I would drop her like a hot rock. I don't like being deceived.

I write to one of the prettiest and nicest school teachers you've ever seen. This isn't the one I've mentioned in S. Isaan.

This gal was upfront that she has an 8 year old son who means the world to her. She sent me pictures of him and he looks like a really nice boy.

This one also has a master's degree but even so, helping parents, making car payments, supporting herself and her son takes all of her money and she's upfront about that too.

I'd love to post a picture of her because she looks so beautiful but still wholesome.

I'm the liar. I told her I couldn't afford to build her a new home in her village (the truth is that I wouldn't invest in a house in Thailand.) That didn't phase her. She would be very happy with my "limited" 50k baht income (haha) and a decent rental.

In a way I'm truthful in letting her know that's all the money there'd be, while testing her to see if she was wanting only a very rich farang.

And thanks to people like you, people who really do have an income of 50k per month but would happily help to the best of their ability are not believed. Must be great to have all the cash but no conscience.

[BookMan]

As I stated before, a farang doing so is clearly stooping to the same level, IMO would only be appropriate if you were both clear this was a straight transactional rent-a-wife scenario, not in any pretending it's a normal "real" full-on partnership. And being a pr1ck to boot. . .

Not sure where you are getting your scenario from Wym.

Never at any stage has he said the kids cant live with them.

[wym]

And thanks to people like you, people who really do have an income of 50k per month but would happily help to the best of their ability are not believed. Must be great to have all the cash but no conscience.

If tell a girl I'm poor and live as if I am - I do and in fact currently am.

And she turns out to be a gold-digger who chose to think I was lying to "test" her sincerity.

Do you honestly claim I've somehow done her wrong?

Whether a 50K THB p.m. income is actually "poor" here is another topic, but fair to say it should screen out all but the complete noob gold-diggers out there.

Edited March 17, 2014 by wym

[wym]

As I stated before, a farang doing so is clearly stooping to the same level, IMO would only be appropriate if you were both clear this was a straight transactional rent-a-wife scenario, not in any pretending it's a normal "real" full-on partnership. And being a pr1ck to boot. . .

Not sure where you are getting your scenario from Wym.

Never at any stage has he said the kids cant live with them.

I realize that, but that's nothing.

Even paying for everything as if they are your own isn't all that much, compared to:

being a real step-father, raising them LOVING them as if they were your own, maybe you do have your own with her, not showing any distinction between your biological kids and the stepchildren.

That's the only way to do it IMO, if you're not willing to accept that wholeheartedly - to at least do your best at it - then walk away and let her look for someone who can.

Otherwise you're most likely going to inflict serious harm on innocent kids who never asked for their lot in life.

[Showbags]

There is no 'forcing' about it, why would you want to live with your girlfriends/wifes children if you want nothing to do with them. Your friend (or you) needs to end whatever relationship there is now and find some other loveless relationship.

You, by asking opinion obviously feel the same way as your 'friend'. Personally I find the behaviour you are describing despicable, this is a personal opinion of mine and I know that not all people will have the same basic values that I have.

I hear what you are saying Totser but I don’t know why it is disturbing. Here are some common example of Mothers (and fathers) not putting their kids first.

Examples of mothers who don’t put children first (substitute father here for anything):

· Drug addicts (substance comes first)

· Alcoholics (substance comes first)

· Gamblers (money goes to gambling first)

· Many example of children being sold for slavery to work in factories.

· Kids Forced to prostitution

· Taken from school to provide money for the family by working therefore the child does not get an education that could further them.

· Basic narcissism where the mother puts herself first. Becoming more common.

· Mothers who value a balanced life with their spouse and children

· Mothers who decide career comes before children (nothing wrong with that)

· ecetera

Personally I wouldn’t want to be second in a relationship all the time.

By saying you put the kids first all the time it implies you will always be second class in the relationship. Surely that also sends the wrong message to the children?

There are plenty of mothers who give their partners and children fair balance in their life.

Well, you make a very extreme point and are taking cheap shots to try and rationalise your friends (and your?) attitude with this.

Children are children and should be taken care of, of course there are some that have no regard for this basic moral standard and I pity them for it.

totster

You made a statement and i contradicted it not with cheap shots but reality. It might look like an extreme point but there are millions off examples of those extreme points around us every day. It might seem unpalatable to you but that's just how it is.

Yes, basically my friend and I have similar POVs on this subject and i'm not sure what is despicable about any part of that. Seems a ludicrous assertion on your part. Surely that scorn should be saved for the father of the children? My friend has never said to abandon the children, in fact he has said he will pay rent, food, utilities, that covers the mum AND the kids. A most generous offer I would think. That is despicable to you?

Our opinions do differ in that I believe he should cut his losses now as it is most likely to cause grief and trouble in the near future. He seems unable to cut the ties probably because he is in love. If he had known she had kids he wouldn't have made contact with her in the first place.

Another misconception on this thread is that he asks for my advice. I freely give him advice but he never asks for it and I suspect he rarely takes it on board

If it makes it easier in your mind totser to believe the person in the OP is me then go ahead and believe that. My friend's life has no similarity to my own life and besides stating it numerous times I can do nothing to convince a few paranoid, suspicious and possibly mentally unstable TV members of this fact.

I resemble that remark.....

[martynsnowmans]

When I met my wife 10 years ago, her 3 kids were 9, 13 and 18 . Can't really advise others how to feel but for me I didn't think otherwise than to take on the responsibility. Having done so I can without regret say that it has been exceptionally rewarding. They call me "Papa" , treat me like I am the king of the castle and have not been a problem. Only difference is the father has NEVER been around! That could be a potential problem for your friend as the children might resent him as trying to take their fathers place. Can't really say...but its something to think about.

Anyway wish him luck ....as said before I believe they are part of the package and if he wants to be with their mother ....either accept it or move on..

Good luck either way

thats good and i,m pleased for you ( no joke ) but it might be diffrent depending on who you are or the family your moving in with , i was 43 met lady on line only couple of years younger than me a widow , with 2 daughters then 1 was about 9 the other about 15 . the lady ( who i married and am still married to over 7 years now ) had her own house and noodle shop said they were a package , i thought no problems how hard can living with the wife and 2 daughters be .

the first few years were easy enough living on the mekong then we moved to udon thani for better schools .

then the problems started i dont know if it was meeting new friends at school , who told them to act up to get more from the farang or just because they grew older but shit it got hard , i was forever fighting with the daughters or the wife about the daughters , i just would not put up they the attitude or bad maners , ( i,d never had or been in a realationship with any children before ) in the end the wife and i sat down and talked it through and decided to send them to live with wifes farther and wifes sister ( before any1 kicks off they lived in the house next door about 10 mts away ) that worked well for us and still does now , but if any1 thinks it will be easy to take on anothers children please DONT KID YOURSELF .

ps , i must say it was not only the chidren but ME as well who could,nt give and take as i should have done .

[oxo1947]

"The woman and himself have fallen in ‘Love’ and decided to be together.-- Now they have met in person once (for 2 weeks) ".

Oh yes plenty of time to assess if he should commit to a lifetime relationship then----Maybe you should ask your friend if he has a coin.....that's another tried & true way of deciding life changing decisions.

Edited March 17, 2014 by oxo1947

[BookMan]

As I stated before, a farang doing so is clearly stooping to the same level, IMO would only be appropriate if you were both clear this was a straight transactional rent-a-wife scenario, not in any pretending it's a normal "real" full-on partnership. And being a pr1ck to boot. . .

Not sure where you are getting your scenario from Wym.

Never at any stage has he said the kids cant live with them.

I realize that, but that's nothing.

Even paying for everything as if they are your own isn't all that much, compared to:

being a real step-father, raising them LOVING them as if they were your own, maybe you do have your own with her, not showing any distinction between your biological kids and the stepchildren.

That's the only way to do it IMO, if you're not willing to accept that wholeheartedly - to at least do your best at it - then walk away and let her look for someone who can.

Otherwise you're most likely going to inflict serious harm on innocent kids who never asked for their lot in life.

I'd be happy to see him walk away but that isn't my decision.

His point is fair enough. He doesn't want another family, she works, her ex has a paying job and the kids have a father who does see them. Not sure why you think he would need to step up to be a surrogate father in that situation. I couldn't see him ignoring the kids or treating them like unwanted pieces of flotsam.

Possibly his GF wants him to be a surrogate father, I'm not clear about that really.

The sticking point for him is financial and perhaps some western thought of what is right and wrong.

I've seen a number of relationships like this in Australia where the man and woman keep financials separate and they don't pay for large expenditure for each other's children. Surely there must be similar in Thailand?

[larsjohnsson]

As I stated before, a farang doing so is clearly stooping to the same level, IMO would only be appropriate if you were both clear this was a straight transactional rent-a-wife scenario, not in any pretending it's a normal "real" full-on partnership. And being a pr1ck to boot. . .

Not sure where you are getting your scenario from Wym.

Never at any stage has he said the kids cant live with them.

I don't belive the kids like to live with him. What kid like to have a man like that in the family

[lostinisaan]

Many Internet ladies with baggage are there for financial reasons only. Thai fathers don't want to know and am sure Thai blokes don't want to know about baggage. So the farang route is the only option for bringing up their kids. Most farangs I know have baggage, including me. In my case the baggage are now 18 and 25 and are a complete pain in the ass.

PS. The baggage will always come before you, beware.

A great post. But a little different in my situation. Met my wife when her son had just turned four. We're living happily together since 13 years. Have to admit that. our son had never seen his biological Thai daddy.

And I'm not just the bankalogical father.

P. S. the "package" can't be named do, as we're talking about human beings now. Is it their fault?

Edited March 17, 2014 by lostinisaan

[HerbalEd]

She didn't mention the kids for 3 months -- guilty

He didn't ask about kids for 3 months -- stupid

maybe they deserve each other, but I'd watch out for the policeman !!!!!

No, he's 'guilty' also. I can't believe he just forgot to ask her.

[HerbalEd]

While I don't necessarily want kids, I would never ever want to be with a woman with kids who doesn't put them at number-one priority ... even before me. Otherwise, she has no heart.

[Nautilus05]

As I stated before, a farang doing so is clearly stooping to the same level, IMO would only be appropriate if you were both clear this was a straight transactional rent-a-wife scenario, not in any pretending it's a normal "real" full-on partnership. And being a pr1ck to boot. . .

Not sure where you are getting your scenario from Wym.

Never at any stage has he said the kids cant live with them.

Right, basically the kids can be tenants and live rent free, but they're not allowed to call him dad, or expect anything fatherly out of him?

I'm absolutely certain that will go over well. If that's actually what he has in his mind, tell him to drop the relationship now. Don't drag innocent kids into that mess, because there's no way it will work out, and it's just not right to do.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Nautilus05

[PaulHamon]

It's beyond me how anyone would assume a thai woman over the age of, say, 25, might not have any children. It's almost a given fact. So I have no sympathy for the OP's "freind", for salvating for three months, and then being surprised by two children. It is, and has always been, all or nothing.

Some people really shouldn't leave their country.

<deleted>? really... my wife's sisters that are over 25, none of them have children, actually the more I think about it the more my female friends that are over 25 don't. Maybe 20% of my wife (she's now 29) old university friends are still single or if in a relationship/married are without children.

[abhaya]

I think if he even has to ask himself this question, he doesn't have the maturity to get involved with this woman.

[Tatsujin]

It's a package deal and I would expect nothing less. It's called "family" and "parents" will (usually) always put their children before themselves.

Your "friend" was an idiot for not checking sooner if it was going to be an issue. It's one of the many questions I ask when I first meet someone new.