54% want Yingluck to take responsibility for deadlock

[Thai at Heart]

Poll does not suit your agenda? Ignore it. Call it stupid.

Constitution referendum does not suit your agenda? Ignore it. Call it stupid.

Majority not wanting the amnesty bill does not suit your agenda? Ignore them. Call them stupid.

Lowest voter turn out in Thai democratic history does not suit your agenda? Ignore it. Call it stupid.

And rest assured when the PTP lose at the ballot box that result won't be accepted either. There is a minority with a 200 000 militia that will assure the PTP don't loose power. The PTP already ignore the democratic principle "rule of law" when it goes against them. Don't doubt for a minute that they will disrespect that other principle "elections" if it does not go its way either.

Now when someone votes or takes a poll that is his opinion. The national ballot is everyones opinion on who they want to run the country. Those opinions are tabulated and the fact then becomes clear on who gets to practice the "other" principles of democracy besides "elections"

So "Thai at Heart" what do you mean by brushing aside the results of this poll by stating "stupid survey with opinion as fact"?

Most people believe....Now I am not world class statistician, but I don't see how that inference can be taken from a poll like this.

So being unable to answer my question I assume you are retracting your "opinion as fact" statement?

Polls based on samples of a broad section of the populations are subject to sampling errors that can reflect the effects of chance and uncertainty in the sampling process. It is a margin of error if you will. Opinion polls have been used as early back as the start of the 19^th century and through history and has been a litmus test of a nations views. With a random sample of 1,000 people a margin of sampling error of 3% for the estimated percentage of the whole population was suggested. So this poll can have 3% added or taken away from the final result and that spread will be where the populations views lie.

However reason flies against the face of facts (again) when those facts do not suit a PTP agenda. Every single Thai poll that goes against the PTP agenda is denounced and it is suggested that the polls are not independent and DEM rooted (where have we heard that before). I suggest that if one wants a poll that suits the PTP agenda just make up some figures that suit that agenda and treat those figures as fact. Never mind that the margin of error will be 97%, but heay who cares.

When a poll goes against the DEMs I dont decree it or say it is a PTP rooted poll. That would be plain silly and make me look foolish I simply see it as a litmus test of what the general population want, but then accepting facts is a trait that I share with most other human beings.

Most people, is an absolute. That cannot be inferred with a figure of 54% without expressing the margin. It barely figures.

Last week there were several of this type of poll where they asked what people believed, and expressed it as a poll. Because they believe she may or may not be responsible does not mean anything.

Look, we have abac , nida, etc and they are all asking leading uniformed questions.

Ask 1000 people who they believe are responsible and 54% say yingluck, and this represents the headline of "take responsibility". What does that mean.

It wouldn't matter whether the answer was positive or negative to yingluck. These types of polls posed like this are fluff.

If the poll were taken in Issan it would be in her favour and you would be cheering from the rooftops. In BKK it would probably be against her and you would decry it. The same poll taken in the South would be overwhelmingly against her and you would be rubbishing it as a Democrat poll.

This was supposedly taken nationwide and yet you still rubbish it because it is niot what you want to see or hear.

Just live with it, ignore it as it won't be here next week.

Better still conduct your own poll on Thai Visa and get the mods to monitor it and see what results you get.

My lord.

When you point out that polls like this are using incredibly loaded questions and drawing conclusions, I become a red.

Remember the abac polls about morality or teenage sex. Abac I'd catholic for Pete's sake.

Just look at the sample, look at the type of conclusions. Engage your brain and wonder if you can really believe this isn't a leading poll.

65% said she should do x, 6% percent she should do y.

How many option in there I wonder? 5. These polls keep being printed by the media, and they are leading the answers out of people. Wouldn't matter if they were on either side they are eliciting the responses they want.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[djjamie]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Poll does not suit your agenda? Ignore it. Call it stupid.

Constitution referendum does not suit your agenda? Ignore it. Call it stupid.

Majority not wanting the amnesty bill does not suit your agenda? Ignore them. Call them stupid.

Lowest voter turn out in Thai democratic history does not suit your agenda? Ignore it. Call it stupid.

And rest assured when the PTP lose at the ballot box that result won't be accepted either. There is a minority with a 200 000 militia that will assure the PTP don't loose power. The PTP already ignore the democratic principle "rule of law" when it goes against them. Don't doubt for a minute that they will disrespect that other principle "elections" if it does not go its way either.

Now when someone votes or takes a poll that is his opinion. The national ballot is everyones opinion on who they want to run the country. Those opinions are tabulated and the fact then becomes clear on who gets to practice the "other" principles of democracy besides "elections"

So "Thai at Heart" what do you mean by brushing aside the results of this poll by stating "stupid survey with opinion as fact"?

Most people believe....Now I am not world class statistician, but I don't see how that inference can be taken from a poll like this.

So being unable to answer my question I assume you are retracting your "opinion as fact" statement?

Polls based on samples of a broad section of the populations are subject to sampling errors that can reflect the effects of chance and uncertainty in the sampling process. It is a margin of error if you will. Opinion polls have been used as early back as the start of the 19^th century and through history and has been a litmus test of a nations views. With a random sample of 1,000 people a margin of sampling error of 3% for the estimated percentage of the whole population was suggested. So this poll can have 3% added or taken away from the final result and that spread will be where the populations views lie.

However reason flies against the face of facts (again) when those facts do not suit a PTP agenda. Every single Thai poll that goes against the PTP agenda is denounced and it is suggested that the polls are not independent and DEM rooted (where have we heard that before). I suggest that if one wants a poll that suits the PTP agenda just make up some figures that suit that agenda and treat those figures as fact. Never mind that the margin of error will be 97%, but heay who cares.

When a poll goes against the DEM’s I don’t decree it or say it is a PTP rooted poll. That would be plain silly and make me look foolish I simply see it as a litmus test of what the general population want, but then accepting facts is a trait that I share with most other human beings.

And the Dusit polls are normally taken where??? Methinks Bangkok - a Democrat "stronghold".

You are fitting a belief in as a substitute for a fact. Read the article and look up the Dusit poll web page (in Thai). The polls are taken throughout the country and represent a broad cross section of the population. Why on earth a poll would be taken in Bangkok would defeat the whole purpose of running a poll!!

The Dusit poll in 2011 showed (+ or - 3%) that the PTP would win the election with 41% of the votes. (They got 43% so it fell within that range)

Now that poll was not favorable to the DEM's, but on this forum when that result was published it was taken as gospel by the PTP supporters. Not a hint of "It is a Bangkok poll" Not a single, "this is not representative of the broad cross section of society", not a single word saying "this is only opinion and not representative of an election 5 years ago" Why? Because that poll suited the PTP agenda. It vindicated to the TVF PTP supporters that "there team" is the best. They won.

I didn't like the result of the poll, but I accepted it. I didn't spin or substitute beliefs for facts to denounce it to suit my agenda. That would be childish and silly.

Time to accept the fact that the PTP are not as popular as the were 3 years ago even if you don't like it.

Don't worry I support the DEM's. They have not won an election 6 straight times apparently so I do know how the PTP's feel now in this dark time of the PTP.

[ikke]

So 700 people out of 70 Million, they call 54 % of the people., that 700 people might just be the Suthep supporters left in Lumpini .

[kuthow]

So 700 people out of 70 Million, they call 54 % of the people., that 700 people might just be the Suthep supporters left in Lumpini .

For the benefit of those individuals who evidently don't understand in the slightest how polls work and what they represent, some fundamental information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_poll

[Crushdepth]

Vote, or you don't count. The foundation of Democracy is electing representatives by majority. Anything else is not Democracy. Anything else will not be validated. Anything else will hurt Thailand.

Stop whining and start developing policy that will get majority support. Put that in your whistle and smoke it. And please, please, please find a leader better than the sociopathic Suthep or talking haircut Abhisit.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Elected representatives are about 1/3rd of the machinery of democracy. You're missing a few little parts such as the judiciary, the executive and a very large slab of governance necessary to make it all happen.

The state of governance in Thailand at every conceivable level is just crap, hence the mess. Fix the governance and you fix the democracy. Good luck with that.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Crushdepth

[Thai at Heart]

Vote, or you don't count. The foundation of Democracy is electing representatives by majority. Anything else is not Democracy. Anything else will not be validated. Anything else will hurt Thailand.

Stop whining and start developing policy that will get majority support. Put that in your whistle and smoke it. And please, please, please find a leader better than the sociopathic Suthep or talking haircut Abhisit.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Elected representatives are about 1/3rd of the machinery of democracy. You're missing a few little parts such as the judiciary, the executive and a very large slab of governance necessary to make it all happen.

The state of governance in Thailand at every conceivable level is just crap, hence the mess. Fix the governance and you fix the democracy. Good luck with that.

Indeed, there are problems everywhere, not just in the elected parliament. The senate is a mess, and the jubdiciary is hardly a beacon of independence. At the end of the day, it is about finding the balance of the respective roles of all the players, and a lot of peeople appear to have a problem with how much power the lower house has. But if the power doesn't lie there, where should it lie? All the other main players are appointed. Why they absolutely refuse to have a system like the UK, I don't know. They don't have to do jury courts, but it is a system that has definitely lasted the test of time. Precendent law would certainly help too. At least it would give some level of confidence to what type of outcome could be expected from court cases.

[HonestQuietBob]

There is not much that is world class going on here.

Even if we go along with and accept the amateurish leading questions posed in this poll....

If the polls margin of error was say +/- 5% then the stated figure of 54% could in fact be anywhere between 49% and 59%.

Therefore, it is quite possible that less than half the people polled actually believe Yingluck should take responsibility...

The margin of error would be greatly determined by the sample surveyed and how truly they reflect the population. My guess is not too many remote and rural people living outside of major urban areas were included (i.e. - Red supporters have been under represented).

It appears this pollster has used every trick out of the book to push the published outcomes in the direction of their own liking.

(Including the margin of area is standard practice for any polling organisation that wants to be taken seriously).

BTW - Elections are about winning a majority of seats in the lower house of parliament - which PTP did quite convincingly at 265 out of 500.

And the spin continues without any FACTS or EVIDENCE to back it up.

You say "quite possible" and "my guess" and "It appears" quite a lot to pass your beliefs off as facts then finish up with one real fact from 3 years ago. WOW. You notice that every point I have made is verifiable and can be easily backed up with current facts from today that are conducive and representative of the current political climate. Do you think the election from 3 years ago is representative of the "here and now" in Thai politics and should this result be used to allow the PTP to govern for eternity? If that was the case then it would be called a dictatorship.

Of course the PTP won't use the 2014 election as a template for success. That election does not suit their agenda.

Please do not substitute your beliefs as facts when rebutting me.

You say "quite possible" and "my guess" and "It appears" quite a lot

Yes I do - very deliberately.

Why?

Because I always leave open the possibility that I am wrong and because such terms also make it much easier to stand corrected when I am in fact wrong.

Only a fool would speak in absolute terms when opining about anything to do with Thailand, especially Thai politics.

Do you think the election from 3 years ago is representative of the "here and now" in Thai politics

Tatsujin cited the 2011 elections and I responded - I don't see how me citing the 2014 elections when talking about the 2011 elections would really work.

Guess I'm not as clever as you.

(or perhaps it's a reality perception disorder, have you read (and understood) the study in Science? 5555)

[winstonc]

Is this really a national ? Nation ? its more like the beano

well you seem to enjoy reading their articles on here everyday ...so whats your point then....

[Amavel]

Crush. That would be 2 out of 3 branches of government that are elected. The 2 that make the laws that the Judiciary enforces and rules upon. Again, voting is the prerequisite of Democracy.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Docno]

Oh another stupid survey with opinion as fact.

Ahem... that's why they're often referred to as 'opinion polls'.

They're not intended to present 'facts' other than the perception of the population. But that's still important information, no? After all, it can offer some insights into the outcomes of future elections, the likelihood of political/social turmoil, etc. etc.

[Thai at Heart]

Oh another stupid survey with opinion as fact.

Ahem... that's why they're often referred to as 'opinion polls'.

They're not intended to present 'facts' other than the perception of the population. But that's still important information, no? After all, it can offer some insights into the outcomes of future elections, the likelihood of political/social turmoil, etc. etc.

You do understand how poorly worded questions can elicit a biased response.

Note 67% saying she should do this or that, 25% this or that. It would appear they have framed the answers doesn't it. You draw a provable inference from a choice of 5 in this way.

Do you think that thai opinion polls are the best in the world?

A. Yes

B. No

B should get 100%, but does that mean that the entirety of the data was nonsense?

What someone should do in a choice of 5 means nothing.

[bendejo]

She should take responsibility, all those dreadlocked tourists are here and they stink and it's her fault!

Oh, you did say dreadlock, right?

[Docno]

Oh another stupid survey with opinion as fact.

Ahem... that's why they're often referred to as 'opinion polls'.

They're not intended to present 'facts' other than the perception of the population. But that's still important information, no? After all, it can offer some insights into the outcomes of future elections, the likelihood of political/social turmoil, etc. etc.

You do understand how poorly worded questions can elicit a biased response.

Note 67% saying she should do this or that, 25% this or that. It would appear they have framed the answers doesn't it. You draw a provable inference from a choice of 5 in this way.

Do you think that thai opinion polls are the best in the world?

A. Yes

B. No

B should get 100%, but does that mean that the entirety of the data was nonsense?

What someone should do in a choice of 5 means nothing.

You do understand that you did not criticise the design of the survey, only that it purported to treat opinion as fact? That's what I was responding to.

That said, it is perfectly reasonably to provide a close-ended list of response options so long as you have good coverage of the domain of interest (something that is established either logically or through pilot testing). The intent of the survey is also relevant: even the example you provided would be acceptable if used in a survey designed to determine whether the public believes that Thailand has attained its goal of having the best opinion polls in the world.

[JamesDean3]

? Incomplete elections, not her fault!

? Shutdown of city? Talk to the Dems

How many times has she invited Suthep to talk?

Total joke. Govt has done all they can.

The survey seems to be pretty accurate for that time period.

[djjamie]

There is not much that is world class going on here.

Even if we go along with and accept the amateurish leading questions posed in this poll....

If the polls margin of error was say +/- 5% then the stated figure of 54% could in fact be anywhere between 49% and 59%.

Therefore, it is quite possible that less than half the people polled actually believe Yingluck should take responsibility...

The margin of error would be greatly determined by the sample surveyed and how truly they reflect the population. My guess is not too many remote and rural people living outside of major urban areas were included (i.e. - Red supporters have been under represented).

It appears this pollster has used every trick out of the book to push the published outcomes in the direction of their own liking.

(Including the margin of area is standard practice for any polling organisation that wants to be taken seriously).

BTW - Elections are about winning a majority of seats in the lower house of parliament - which PTP did quite convincingly at 265 out of 500.

And the spin continues without any FACTS or EVIDENCE to back it up.

You say "quite possible" and "my guess" and "It appears" quite a lot to pass your beliefs off as facts then finish up with one real fact from 3 years ago. WOW. You notice that every point I have made is verifiable and can be easily backed up with current facts from today that are conducive and representative of the current political climate. Do you think the election from 3 years ago is representative of the "here and now" in Thai politics and should this result be used to allow the PTP to govern for eternity? If that was the case then it would be called a dictatorship.

Of course the PTP won't use the 2014 election as a template for success. That election does not suit their agenda.

Please do not substitute your beliefs as facts when rebutting me.

You say "quite possible" and "my guess" and "It appears" quite a lot

Yes I do - very deliberately.

Why?

Because I always leave open the possibility that I am wrong and because such terms also make it much easier to stand corrected when I am in fact wrong.

Only a fool would speak in absolute terms when opining about anything to do with Thailand, especially Thai politics.

Do you think the election from 3 years ago is representative of the "here and now" in Thai politics

Tatsujin cited the 2011 elections and I responded - I don't see how me citing the 2014 elections when talking about the 2011 elections would really work.

Guess I'm not as clever as you.

(or perhaps it's a reality perception disorder, have you read (and understood) the study in Science? 5555)

I always wonder how long it takes for the UDD supporters to start the condescending attitude and belittling of other forum member. It says more about you than it does me and on that note I will leave it at that.

[Thai at Heart]

Oh another stupid survey with opinion as fact.

Ahem... that's why they're often referred to as 'opinion polls'.

They're not intended to present 'facts' other than the perception of the population. But that's still important information, no? After all, it can offer some insights into the outcomes of future elections, the likelihood of political/social turmoil, etc. etc.

You do understand how poorly worded questions can elicit a biased response.

Note 67% saying she should do this or that, 25% this or that. It would appear they have framed the answers doesn't it. You draw a provable inference from a choice of 5 in this way.

Do you think that thai opinion polls are the best in the world?

A. Yes

B. No

B should get 100%, but does that mean that the entirety of the data was nonsense?

What someone should do in a choice of 5 means nothing.

You do understand that you did not criticise the design of the survey, only that it purported to treat opinion as fact? That's what I was responding to.

That said, it is perfectly reasonably to provide a close-ended list of response options so long as you have good coverage of the domain of interest (something that is established either logically or through pilot testing). The intent of the survey is also relevant: even the example you provided would be acceptable if used in a survey designed to determine whether the public believes that Thailand has attained its goal of having the best opinion polls in the world.

These polls drawing inferences like this are very childish though.

Abac is just as a bad about sex and society. They are all asking loafed question and then the papers draw sweeping inferences when as we see here, at 54%,it barely makes a majority in a tiny sample.

All of these polls supportive or negative are largely nonsense.

Should By Yingluck

A. Take rwspnsibilty

B. Not take respnsobolty

C.. None of the above

D. Suthep should take responsibility.

Ask it that way and see the response.

[smutcakes]

And the spin continues without any FACTS or EVIDENCE to back it up.

You say "quite possible" and "my guess" and "It appears" quite a lot to pass your beliefs off as facts then finish up with one real fact from 3 years ago. WOW. You notice that every point I have made is verifiable and can be easily backed up with current facts from today that are conducive and representative of the current political climate. Do you think the election from 3 years ago is representative of the "here and now" in Thai politics and should this result be used to allow the PTP to govern for eternity? If that was the case then it would be called a dictatorship.

Of course the PTP won't use the 2014 election as a template for success. That election does not suit their agenda.

Please do not substitute your beliefs as facts when rebutting me.

Blimey some brass neck on you talking about FACTS and EVIDENCE

On just another thread you wrote that Ekkayuth Anchanbutr was assassinated by the regime! obviously without any EVIDENCE and clearly not a FACT.

Your posts are so ironic and hypocritical i can only presume you are just trying to get a rise on here, and are not really serious in what you write.

[djjamie]

And the spin continues without any FACTS or EVIDENCE to back it up.

You say "quite possible" and "my guess" and "It appears" quite a lot to pass your beliefs off as facts then finish up with one real fact from 3 years ago. WOW. You notice that every point I have made is verifiable and can be easily backed up with current facts from today that are conducive and representative of the current political climate. Do you think the election from 3 years ago is representative of the "here and now" in Thai politics and should this result be used to allow the PTP to govern for eternity? If that was the case then it would be called a dictatorship.

Of course the PTP won't use the 2014 election as a template for success. That election does not suit their agenda.

Please do not substitute your beliefs as facts when rebutting me.

Blimey some brass neck on you talking about FACTS and EVIDENCE

On just another thread you wrote that Ekkayuth Anchanbutr was assassinated by the regime! obviously without any EVIDENCE and clearly not a FACT.

Your posts are so ironic and hypocritical i can only presume you are just trying to get a rise on here, and are not really serious in what you write.

I appreciate the reply and thank you for inadvertently highlighting that the PTP are unable to grasp the basic simple understandings of the principles of democracy. Two of which is "rule of law" and "equal protection under the law"

As this is going completely off topic now I will try to keep it short. Chalerm already said the guy was murdered for money before the police started an investigation and in fact Chalerm was very vocal and directed the case in to the swell theft scenario that the police followed. If it was a simple theft murder as Chalerm suggested then there would be no need to threaten with death Akeyuth's lawyer on a daily bases when demanded difficult questions to be answered. One of which is why the thieves left a 10 million baht necklace on the victim and threw the remaining money and valuables in the lake. More holes than swiss cheese. It worked though the lawyer shut up shop out of fear for his life and the regime moved onto assassinating its next dissident. Sutan Taratin.

So with this the PTP have shown it's contempt for the law and justice which cane not be made more obvious than with the recent PTP statement referring to "The PTP will not acknowledging the constitutions courts decision" The equal protection under the law was stifled when the regime threatened the lawyer with death for revealing the truth. So 2 principles of democracy broken to ensure the regime continues on it's criminal path. Of course the PTP stand for democracy, but they have to be undemocratic to achieve that right.

So again I thank you for highlighting this regimes unethical way of disposing of dissidents and apologies for not delving into it initially though it was unintentional because as I said, it was getting further off topic.

We should not be surprised by the regimes morality and the unelectable, accused mass murder, accused terrorist convicted criminal fugitives (phew, say that fast after 6 beers. LOL) acts though. This is normal practice for there ilk. See below.

The day after Somchai's disappearance, concerns were publicly raised. In response, Thaksin said, "Oh, don't worry. I understand he had a fight with his wife, and will probably be back home in a day or two.

According to Amnesty International, 18 human rights defenders were either assassinated or disappeared during thaksin's first term in office.

In April of 2009 gunmen would fire over 100 rounds into the vehicle of anti-Thaksin activist, protest leader, and media mogul Sondhi Limthongkul in a broad day light assassination attempt. He was injured but survived.

On Jan 26, 2014 gunmen assassinated celebrated NGO worker, activist, and protest core leader Sutin Taratin who was critical of Thaksin, during a brazen broad-daylight drive by shooting.

Tried to keep it short. Didn't work and a very warm thanks again for your assistance.

Edited March 19, 2014 by djjamie