Clampdown coming on multiple tourist visa runs

[Benmart]

I do find it remarkable that people that say here on doing visa runs become targets for the self rightous on Thai visa. I stay here on doing visa runs & prob invested more cash into the Thai eco than most of the self rightous . It will be another 4 years before I qualify for a retirement extention , do I have the money yes will I apply for retirement NO why ? Well I don't believe anybody should be showing any money's they have to any government authority world wide. To do this is to expect to be pick pocketed because you can be sure there are people trying to work out a plann to get at your hard earned.

Also because I like doing visa runs,it breaks up the year with nice little Holidays around the world. So to the Im aright jack mob I will say I dont care about your thinkings about me or others . I just find it very sad that after getting to the age you are the only way you feel you are better than others is because you jump through loops & get that cheapie retirement ex, while the visa runners pay alot more on visa's & prob more than you can afford ,

You are all very nice though

Plenty of generalizations and assumptions I think.

[thurien]

This....may well cost the country quite a bit of income.

did you ever feel there was anything taken care of and done "for the sake of the country?" The only language everybody knows here is "my own pocket"...

[phuketrichard]

Of course when y0u lose an argument resort to insults instead of logic.

If I am there (Cambodia) as a retiree I have no documents to prove I am there for business and I am not entitled to a business visa. It is an abuse of the rules.

That is what this thread is about - closing loop holes because of abuse.

you still dont get it, U do NOT need a business or be working to Quailfy an it is 100% legal It is NOT a loop hole

Have you ever been to cambodia? Do u know anyone that lives there?

I have lived there an often travel there an havemany friends. Reason many expats are moving to Cambodia is because of the ease of visas,

Look on the camboida section here on thai visa

[Jay Sata]

I do not know of any country where you can just walk in and live full time. You have to go through hoops. How many hoops and how big they will depend on each countries own circumstances . . .

There is this new thing out, maybe you have heard of it? It is called the EU where people can cross borders to live and work with few restrictions.

Sorry for the sarcasm. However, having "open borders" or at least very relaxed borders is not nearly as mad as some people try to make it out to be. It may not always be possible or advisable in every country, but (911 notwithstanding) great numbers of people regard the modern immigrations policy as obsolete, paranoid and xenophobic.

You 're spouting the typical US mantra there where open borders are only open to suit the national agenda.

Try crossing as a foreigner from Mexico to the USA or on the border between the US and Canada.

You obviously know little or nothing about the EU or you would know that there are border controls. You can not just walk in and live and work there.

I've been watching the Fox News pundits trying to accuse Thailand and Malaysia of allowing potential terrorists to easily circumvent the airline boarding procedures so if there is a clampdown on visas and foreigners doing visa runs perhaps you can point the finger of accusation towards the west.

I don't know where you are from Mr. Rexal but I doubt your country is as generous or lenient as Thailand in the way it allows foreigners to bend the rules. For those who want to settle on a 10 year visa and buy a house legally I suggest Malaysia.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Jay Sata

[hansnl]

Get married, get some kids, contribute with a decent job, pay some tax and commit. If you really like Thailand then commit and stop whining. Then get a permanent residence, only takes a few years. Tourists....well give them one or two free 30 day entries then charge them for renewal per 30 days, lets say 15,000 a month. Let them renew within the country. For someone who has paid a lot of tax and shown a lot of commitment people just dossing in Thailand or working illegally should pay their way.

15,000 baht a month?

Is that including health insurance, house rent, electrics, water and two beers a day?

A permanent residence, IF you can get one will cost you 100,000 baht if you are married or 200,000 baht being single.

A yearly renewal of an extension of stay cost you 1900 baht a year, which means 52 years for a married PR and 105 years for a married PR.

Not a very good idea, taking into account that even the PR can be easily withdrawn, as easy as an extension of stay.

I am married, I pay tax, I do all the things and more, same as many Thai people do, and I have no rights whatsoever.

I do not really complain, because I am a guest here.

But from time to time I just wonder what one must do, besides getting married and paying tax as per your ideas, to be considered welcome.

I live in Thailand for 8 years now, do all the things you say, invested a cool 8 million baht and spend 75,000 baht a month in the local economy

But any rights?

No way.

And a job?

I am over 60, too old for a working permit.

Ranting maybe, but I do know a guy, an Englishman.

Lives in the Isan, and is a Visa-hopper pur sang.

He is 48, and lives with his grilfriend.

He spends around £ 3000 a month in the local economy.

He bought, via his girlfriend, an 10 million baht house, two new car, all paid outright.

He has two children with his girlfriend, and because of his visa-hopping situation he seems not to be able to get married in Thailand

Exactly the kind of man the Thai imiigration laws think undesirable

Another guy, 52, living with a Thai woman, two children, owns and runs two restaurants.

Bought two houses via the grilfriend, bought several cars, and is exactly another prime example of a Visa-hopping undesirable foreign alien.

Edited March 18, 2014 by hansnl

[barryofthailand]

This country is like no other country when it comes to tourists, or long stay visitors or long stay residents.

Take the Philippines for instance. If you are married to a Philippina can apply for an Immigrant Visa. This cost the equivilant of $50.00. You must go to Immigration once a year and report your address. This cost $8.00. Every five yrs. you must renew your Visa which is in the form of a Gold card similar to the U.S. Green Card. That cost you $50.00. Very easy to live in the Philippines. The thing is the infrastructure is not as good as Thailand, but their are many more foreigners that either live there or visit there.

[Jay Sata]

Europeans are lucky because when it all goes wrong they can return to countries such as Holland,Germany and the UK and get looked after by social security schemes with free housing and medical care. On my travels around South East Asia I see increasing numbers of ex pat US citizens who have moved here because they cannot afford to live in the land of the free.

[sabaii69]

Thai official: 'We simply must stop tourists from spending money in Thailand'

[JLCrab]

Re: # 120 -- Based on the numbers I have found for 2009 that 320,000 number is closer to 40,000 and no expat actually has to bring any money into Thailand; they just have to show an income ex-Thailand or money in the bank for 3 months and no requirement that they spend it.

http://www.burning-bison.com/expats.htm based upon http://www.un.or.th/documents/TMR-2011.pdf

[Suradit69]

Q: Where does tourist money come from?

A: Outside Thailand.

Q: Where do tourists spend their money?

A: Inside Thailand.

Q: How does money from other counties spent in Thailand, benefit the Thai economy?

A: Countless way... it would seem.

Q: Why then would you want to discourage tourists from staying as long as they want?

A: Hummmmmm.... let me get back to you on that...

"Q: Why then would you want to discourage tourists from staying as long as they want?

A: Hummmmmm.... let me get back to you on that..."

If they were legitimate tourists they would get tourist visas. If they fit in the several categories of legitimate long-stay residents, including meeting the financial requirements, they would get extensions of stay. Running back and forth across the border to get visa exempt entries (not visas on arrival as mentioned in the article) doesn't really add up to big time contributors to the economy.

I know there some people who have and spend money, don't need/want to work, aren't over 50, aren't married to a Thai and don't want to start a business. There is no guarantee that everyone who wants to stay in Thailand can and I doubt the loss of these people until they find a way to qualify for longer periods of stay, will severely impact the economy.

Some people on Thai Visa openly brag about making umpteen border crossings over many years and others advise readers that there is no problem doing so as often as you like ... and then surprise, surprise there may be a change of policy implemented by Immigrations at land borders. Don't blame the authorities for the (possible) rule changes. If you've been using this method for a long time and things may be changed, it's the serial abusers and the big time promoters of border runs here at TV who should get the credit.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Suradit69

[firestar]

Continuing change and confusion. In the north, they recently extended the time to 30 days for land crossings, but limited this to 4 consecutive visa runs....

This latest change, if true and universal, May well cost the country quite a bit of income.

As the average length of stay for the almost 20 million visitors in 2011 was (per TAT) " ... 9.64 days and an average daily spend of 4,187.12 baht (US$137) per person," the financial contribution of those who stay long-term without non-IMM visas and who might be affected by any of the above changes in regulations most likely would not cost the country a great deal of income.

Long stay guys buy girls houses.

Let's see, 2.5Mbht house over two years = 4,000bht/day

Long stay buying 2.5Mbht houses while doing 30 days visa runs?? Most people I know buying houses either have their visas sorted or at worst get single entry visas in a neighboring country. The ones doing constant 30 days land runs are on long holidays, down on their luck or backpackers.

Edited March 18, 2014 by firestar

[thaigold]

Q: Where does tourist money come from?

A: Outside Thailand.

Q: Where do tourists spend their money?

A: Inside Thailand.

Q: How does money from other counties spent in Thailand, benefit the Thai economy?

A: Countless way... it would seem.

Q: Why then would you want to discourage tourists from staying as long as they want?

A: Hummmmmm.... let me get back to you on that...

Actually, some say it is to stop people from working in clandestinely as teachers to stay in the Kingdom, and those who lack the maturity or resources to qualify for retirement visas.

[commie Joe]

Get married, get some kids, contribute with a decent job, pay some tax and commit. If you really like Thailand then commit and stop whining. Then get a permanent residence, only takes a few years. Tourists....well give them one or two free 30 day entries then charge them for renewal per 30 days, lets say 15,000 a month. Let them renew within the country. For someone who has paid a lot of tax and shown a lot of commitment people just dossing in Thailand or working illegally should pay their way.

I pay tax on everything I buy ,Oh, & tax on the employees , While I doss here in Thailand you can keep what you think is a good job. I think people that work here should pay 75% tax on earnigs .They should also have to pay at least 100k a year for work permits.You say a decent job . What could be a decent job in the heat of Thailand ? I would say dossing around. Now I kinow that you are prob jealous of people like me that dont need to work but if you work hard in your decent job it will only take afew years for you to be able to afford a flight back to wherever you originate from. You read like a really nice caring person so I hope one day you can get to rub shoulders with the HISO's

Edited March 18, 2014 by commie Joe

[notmyself]

I know there some people who have and spend money, don't need/want to work, aren't over 50, aren't married to a Thai and don't want to start a business. There is no guarantee that everyone who wants to stay in Thailand can and I doubt the loss of these people until they find a way to qualify for longer periods of stay, will severely impact the economy.

Not any more anyway. There used to lots of the people you mention who were spending hand over fist but Thailand, in its infinite wisdom, decided to make staying very difficult so they buggered off to Cambodia. If you are single, under 50, not in business or education BUT have lots and lots of money to spend then Thailand really is not the place.

[thepool]

I wonder why these border hoppers don't just go to Australia or New Zealand?

Walk in on a visa exempt entry and stay !

Nice countries where English is widely spoken

Easy !

Edited March 18, 2014 by thepool

[samran]

another nail in the coffin

That reframe is so old its already been put in the coffin and burned.

'if it wasn't for me, Thailand would fall in a heap.

Ah yes, the old visa runner refrain.....they are gods gift...

[samran]

While I have sympathy for those married with families here - who should be granted PR and work rights automatically - I have no sympathy for visa runners who are simply using lax enforcement as a way to getting defacto residency here.

[commie Joe]

I wonder why these border hoppers don't just go to Australia or New Zealand?

Walk in on a visa exempt entry and stay !

Nice countries where English is widely spoken

Easy !

Maybe because they want to stay legally & that is why they do border runs. Personally I always want the option to leave without hazzle if I want to. I also want to keep my Liecences & be able to drive my car & ride my bike . Most People don't like doing runs but like to stay legal .I find doing trips for visa's very enjoyable ,by doing them I have plans to expand my business into both Malaysia & Loas after liking what I seen & heard of them countries for business. Cambodia is another destination however its still a little wild west yet.

[commie Joe]

While I have sympathy for those married with families here - who should be granted PR and work rights automatically - I have no sympathy for visa runners who are simply using lax enforcement as a way to getting defacto residency here.

How very precise & thoughtful

[samran]

I wonder why these border hoppers don't just go to Australia or New Zealand?

Walk in on a visa exempt entry and stay !

Nice countries where English is widely spoken

Easy !

I think you should research a bit more before you post.

Visa runners there would simply be put on a plane back home if it was clear they were avoiding getting a proper long stay visa.

[thepool]

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I wonder why these border hoppers don't just go to Australia or New Zealand?

Walk in on a visa exempt entry and stay !

Nice countries where English is widely spoken

Easy !

I think you should research a bit more before you post.

Visa runners there would simply be put on a plane back home if it was clear they were avoiding getting a proper long stay visa.

You got the point !

[toooa]

Show me the money....that's all it's about. A kind of schizophrenic clambering for money, power and status... Public "servants" doing what they've always done. Watch the pigeons go nuts over the bread scraps...and like the pigeons, the bureaucracy contributes nothing to society, they just feed and leave a lot of mess behind...

[BestBitterPhuket]

If they are concerned about the quality of foreign residents Thailand they should not allow indefinite visa runs at all. Do like singapore and allow only 90 days in Thailand and if you want to stay longer, get a proper job, marry or get a retirement visa. And needless to say, a background check including police records should be compulsory.

[10Yen]

its not like foreigners are depriving thai's of jobs/work or abusing any benefit system... i understand they dont want the riff raff here long term but effective policing would see off these types.

You'd be surprised at the people that are working Illegally in Thailand, there are thousands of them.

Why ?

Well, I don't know, they can't have a lot to lose maybe.

[unanimosity]

Continuing change and confusion. In the north, they recently extended the time to 30 days for land crossings, but limited this to 4 consecutive visa runs....

This latest change, if true and universal, May well cost the country quite a bit of income.

What's income to a country that values face more than anything? This seems like a shout out to the world: "You don't like how we handle passports and claim there are fake documents available in Thailand? Well, let's see how you like having to run for the border in 15 days and then not come back."

[samran]

If they are concerned about the quality of foreign residents Thailand they should not allow indefinite visa runs at all. Do like singapore and allow only 90 days in Thailand and if you want to stay longer, get a proper job, marry or get a retirement visa. And needless to say, a background check including police records should be compulsory.

I wish...

[10Yen]

I have to have 800,000 Baht in the Bank to get my yearly extension of stay, to people who are circumventing the law, I hope you can do well, but sometimes, they tighten up to make your life difficult.

Good luck to everybody, sometimes we need it.

[FiftyTwo]

Sometimes it would just be nice to be treated as the husband of a Thai citizen.

Not a pseudo criminal that needs to justify wanting to live with his family !!!

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!

GREAT POST AND SO TRUE!!

I love my Thai wife and our son that was born here. Family is everything to me and I thought Thais feel the same, but you have to qualify financially in order to live with your family and that is all that matters to immigration.

It seems love and keeping a family together is not the most important thing to immigration, the only thing that matters is how much a person has or makes is the most important reason (and only reason) for letting a farang stay with his family.

How pathetic.

THANKS cornishcarlos for the post and good luck to you.

Love and family are great but how does one feed there family on make believe.

In most civilized countries, the man feeds his family by working.

In Thailand as a foreigner, you aren't allowed to work, well not in many jobs.

Not to mention a Thai family can supposedly live on 9k/month, but when the man is a foreigner they suddenly need 45k/month.

[FiftyTwo]

If they are concerned about the quality of foreign residents Thailand they should not allow indefinite visa runs at all. Do like singapore and allow only 90 days in Thailand and if you want to stay longer, get a proper job, marry or get a retirement visa. And needless to say, a background check including police records should be compulsory.

I wish...

But what is a proper job?

I could probably do most building work better than many Thai builders, but that isn't allowed.

I'm a pretty good chef and baker, not allowed to work in those jobs either.

I could install sat systems, guide tourists, drive a taxi, but all not allowed.

I don't consider teaching English a proper job, unless I was also qualified to teach in my home country.

(Strangely enough, I am qualified to do that, but most foreigners working in that field aren't)

[FritsSikkink]

Continuing change and confusion. In the north, they recently extended the time to 30 days for land crossings, but limited this to 4 consecutive visa runs....

This latest change, if true and universal, May well cost the country quite a bit of income.

As the average length of stay for the almost 20 million visitors in 2011 was (per TAT) " ... 9.64 days and an average daily spend of 4,187.12 baht (US$137) per person," the financial contribution of those who stay long-term without non-IMM visas and who might be affected by any of the above changes in regulations most likely would not cost the country a great deal of income.

Long stay guys buy girls houses.

Let's see, 2.5Mbht house over two years = 4,000bht/day

If you like the girl so much you buy her a house , then better get married and get a proper visa.