Clampdown coming on multiple tourist visa runs

[unanimosity]

Get married, get some kids, contribute with a decent job, pay some tax and commit. If you really like Thailand then commit and stop whining. Then get a permanent residence, only takes a few years. Tourists....well give them one or two free 30 day entries then charge them for renewal per 30 days, lets say 15,000 a month. Let them renew within the country. For someone who has paid a lot of tax and shown a lot of commitment people just dossing in Thailand or working illegally should pay their way.

I pay tax on everything I buy ,Oh, & tax on the employees , While I doss here in Thailand you can keep what you think is a good job. I think people that work here should pay 75% tax on earnigs .They should also have to pay at least 100k a year for work permits.You say a decent job . What could be a decent job in the heat of Thailand ? I would say dossing around. Now I kinow that you are prob jealous of people like me that dont need to work but if you work hard in your decent job it will only take afew years for you to be able to afford a flight back to wherever you originate from. You read like a really nice caring person so I hope one day you can get to rub shoulders with the HISO's

You prob don't know it lad, but you do in fact need to work..................on your attitude.

And did you learn so much about rubbing shoulders to soothe the pain from patting your back?

[Maggusoil]

. . . yes or the father of a Thai citizen, who has provided at least four other Thai citizens with financial support for 7 years

These are hoops?

I'd hate to see the ladders

[puukao]

I used to own an extremely profitable business. Then I hired a consultant, and they recommended:

1. Fine shoppers who insist they stay in my store too long (30+ days buying things)

2. Insist shoppers leave your store and shop in another country, no matter how much they spend

3. Threaten to kick-them out early because, well, shorter is better

4. If you want to stay longer, sign these 3,423 forms and pay us 2000 baht

i now live under a bridge (at least the internet works!!)

Edited March 18, 2014 by puukao

[Thaifever]

Why would anyone want to do border runs every month or so, either to the border itself, or to immigration for renewals? I did a few runs initially but it was really annoying and more of a pain than it's worth. After which, I obtained a legal working visa which was dead easy. If you have no education and don't qualify for employment then you may need to sort that out in your home country and then come back if you can't live without Thailand.

There are other countries you can squat in if you're uneducated, a criminal, or someone who just can't seem to "fit in" back home. Thailand is trying to clean up it's "tourist" problems and if you're one of the latter mentioned, that problem is you.

[digibum]

Granted that some people use this as a way to live indefinitely in Thailand and technically are not tourists under the definition you cite but - assuming that one is not working in Thailand (which would be illegal) and therefore not taking money from the Thai economy internally, they are still bringing money into Thailand from the outside. So crack down on the long term squatters in other ways if you really want.

I'm still asking what is wrong with welcoming visitors who just want a warm winter? Let them stay for 3 or 4 months without silly, useless AND dangerous visa running every couple weeks. Might be a way to actually attract more visitors.

From my observation, the entire visa system in Thailand is archaic and aims at controlling the wrong things. I can understand that a country wants to know who is in their country and is not a citizen, I can understand that a government wants to control - even tightly control - working by non-citizens but to discourage long term visitors who simply add to an economy, I do not understand.

People can stay in Thailand for anywhere from 60 - 90 days on a proper tourist visa. Actually with a little imagination one could probably extend it beyond that.

It seems the aim of this is to catch the people who are not obtaining the proper tourist visa for their travels. And since those people can't be bothered to follow the most basic rules, why would the Thai government have any expectation that the same person has any respect for any other laws (like employment laws)?

While I agree that some of the immigration rules are archaic and sometimes burdensome, try just staying 3 or 4 months in most other countries. Especially the countries we come from. Let a Thai show up in the US or Europe on a tourist visa and overstay it by a couple of months or try to live there via some revolving door re-entry visas. Pretty sure our immigration laws would deal with the same infractions much more harshly than Thailand does.

[samran]

If they are concerned about the quality of foreign residents Thailand they should not allow indefinite visa runs at all. Do like singapore and allow only 90 days in Thailand and if you want to stay longer, get a proper job, marry or get a retirement visa. And needless to say, a background check including police records should be compulsory.

I wish...

But what is a proper job?

I could probably do most building work better than many Thai builders, but that isn't allowed.

I'm a pretty good chef and baker, not allowed to work in those jobs either.

I could install sat systems, guide tourists, drive a taxi, but all not allowed.

I don't consider teaching English a proper job, unless I was also qualified to teach in my home country.

(Strangely enough, I am qualified to do that, but most foreigners working in that field aren't)

Apart from a few restricted professions ( and even in those you are hired as a consultant) access to the Thai job market is fairly liberal. No quotas in work permits, no national labour market tests before the work permit can be issued.

The fact of the matter is that the Thai labour market for the most part doesn't need expensive foreign labour who can't speak Thai. Nor, do they want your product, at least in the way you have offered it back home.

You say taxi driver? Are you going to work for 700 baht a day for a 12 hour shift if you are lucky?

Builder? Fine. Who's going to pay more than 400 baht per day for your services?

Bangkok is a slight exception to this rule, but even then there are plenty of well trained and well educated Thais who can't get the jobs they want.

If you think you can do it better, fine, by all means set up a firm and sell your product to people who might want it. Train up the workers to a comparable skill level - and then charge more to reflect that with higher prices.

I'm not saying any of this to be mean. However I often think that people often confuse the rules with what the market will bear for their services.

[digibum]

I used to own an extremely profitable business. Then I hired a consultant, and they recommended:

1. Fine shoppers who insist they stay in my store too long (30+ days buying things)

2. Insist shoppers leave your store and shop in another country, no matter how much they spend

3. Threaten to kick-them out early because, well, shorter is better

4. If you want to stay longer, sign these 3,423 forms and pay us 2000 baht

i now live under a bridge (at least the internet works!!)

Well, Thailand is a country, not a store. Second, I think you grossly overestimate how much money is contributed to the Thai economy by people who circumvent the system. Believe me, if the average visa-abuser was spending 10,000 baht a day, Thai authorities would warmly welcome them. But, they're obviously not. In fact, they're the same people who complain about the 2000 baht visa renewal fee (and all fees, and the price of beer, and how the som tam lady charged them 5 baht more than they charged a Thai, etc, etc, etc). Most are burning through some sort of life savings and-or illegally working in the country (i.e. not paying taxes).

[phuketrichard]

You say taxi driver? Are you going to work for 700 baht a day for a 12 hour shift if you are lucky?

i would bet $$ to donuts you that the limo airport drivers pull in a bit more than that :-)

even most tuk tuk drivers pull in more than that during high season.

[FiftyTwo]

Apart from a few restricted professions ( and even in those you are hired as a consultant) access to the Thai job market is fairly liberal. No quotas in work permits, no national labour market tests before the work permit can be issued.

The fact of the matter is that the Thai labour market for the most part doesn't need expensive foreign labour who can't speak Thai. Nor, do they want your product, at least in the way you have offered it back home.

You say taxi driver? Are you going to work for 700 baht a day for a 12 hour shift if you are lucky?

Builder? Fine. Who's going to pay more than 400 baht per day for your services?

Bangkok is a slight exception to this rule, but even then there are plenty of well trained and well educated Thais who can't get the jobs they want.

If you think you can do it better, fine, by all means set up a firm and sell your product to people who might want it. Train up the workers to a comparable skill level - and then charge more to reflect that with higher prices.

I'm not saying any of this to be mean. However I often think that people often confuse the rules with what the market will bear for their services.

That's just rubbish,

I don't want to be managing director or consultant. I don't want to train anyone.

That isn't considered a proper job in my home country.

I want to be the bricklayer. A normal tradesman's job, all prohibited work in Thailand.

400bht a day, you try finding one for less than 1000-2000bht a day.

Where I live in MaeJo for a small house extension they want 250,000bht. Building materials about 25,000bht.

Air-con installers, 2500bht per job, easy to do five in a day.

You really are out of touch with prices for tradesmen.

[samran]

I used to own an extremely profitable business. Then I hired a consultant, and they recommended:

1. Fine shoppers who insist they stay in my store too long (30+ days buying things)

2. Insist shoppers leave your store and shop in another country, no matter how much they spend

3. Threaten to kick-them out early because, well, shorter is better

4. If you want to stay longer, sign these 3,423 forms and pay us 2000 baht

i now live under a bridge (at least the internet works!!)

Simplistic tosh.

But if you want to continue the analogy - Thailand wants you to build the store, thy want you to train up the workers. They'll even let you manage the store and own it outright via BOI.

[thepool]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Apart from a few restricted professions ( and even in those you are hired as a consultant) access to the Thai job market is fairly liberal. No quotas in work permits, no national labour market tests before the work permit can be issued.

The fact of the matter is that the Thai labour market for the most part doesn't need expensive foreign labour who can't speak Thai. Nor, do they want your product, at least in the way you have offered it back home.

You say taxi driver? Are you going to work for 700 baht a day for a 12 hour shift if you are lucky?

Builder? Fine. Who's going to pay more than 400 baht per day for your services?

Bangkok is a slight exception to this rule, but even then there are plenty of well trained and well educated Thais who can't get the jobs they want.

If you think you can do it better, fine, by all means set up a firm and sell your product to people who might want it. Train up the workers to a comparable skill level - and then charge more to reflect that with higher prices.

I'm not saying any of this to be mean. However I often think that people often confuse the rules with what the market will bear for their services.

That's just rubbish,
I don't want to be managing director or consultant. I don't want to train anyone.
That isn't considered a proper job in my home country.
I want to be the bricklayer. A normal tradesman's job, all prohibited work in Thailand.

400bht a day, you try finding one for less than 1000-2000bht a day.
Where I live in MaeJo for a small house extension they want 250,000bht. Building materials about 25,000bht.
Air-con installers, 2500bht per job, easy to do five in a day.
You really are out of touch with prices for tradesmen.

Just had an aircon installed ----------Total labour cost 1200 Bht . Two men 3.5 hours work.

Seems some fish in the wrong pond or have failed to develope appropriate Thai contacts.

[Jay Sata]

A lot of the visa runners see Thailand as a place where they can make the small funds they have from their own country go a long way. Others see it as a cheap playground where they can indulge themselves.

There are many who are running from the reality of their homeland. Retiree's who would be on their uppers in their home country find a partner and get by well on a pension that would be breadline at home.

It's a surreal world where the lifestyle depends on the last stamp in the passport.

[samran]

Apart from a few restricted professions ( and even in those you are hired as a consultant) access to the Thai job market is fairly liberal. No quotas in work permits, no national labour market tests before the work permit can be issued.

The fact of the matter is that the Thai labour market for the most part doesn't need expensive foreign labour who can't speak Thai. Nor, do they want your product, at least in the way you have offered it back home.

You say taxi driver? Are you going to work for 700 baht a day for a 12 hour shift if you are lucky?

Builder? Fine. Who's going to pay more than 400 baht per day for your services?

Bangkok is a slight exception to this rule, but even then there are plenty of well trained and well educated Thais who can't get the jobs they want.

If you think you can do it better, fine, by all means set up a firm and sell your product to people who might want it. Train up the workers to a comparable skill level - and then charge more to reflect that with higher prices.

I'm not saying any of this to be mean. However I often think that people often confuse the rules with what the market will bear for their services.

That's just rubbish,

I don't want to be managing director or consultant. I don't want to train anyone.

That isn't considered a proper job in my home country.

I want to be the bricklayer. A normal tradesman's job, all prohibited work in Thailand.

400bht a day, you try finding one for less than 1000-2000bht a day.

Where I live in MaeJo for a small house extension they want 250,000bht. Building materials about 25,000bht.

Air-con installers, 2500bht per job, easy to do five in a day.

You really are out of touch with prices for tradesmen.

There aren't too many countries in the world that are going to allow migrants to work on the basis of working in relatively unskilled fields. No offence.

Try migrating to Australia NZ Canada or the uk on the basis of being a bricklayer. Ain't going to happen.

You have to change your expectations.

[digibum]

In most civilized countries, the man feeds his family by working.

In Thailand as a foreigner, you aren't allowed to work, well not in many jobs.

Not to mention a Thai family can supposedly live on 9k/month, but when the man is a foreigner they suddenly need 45k/month.

Why in the world would Thailand want people who aim to live at the poverty level? Even when I was applying for a visa to bring my wife to the US, I had to show income well in excess of the poverty level. BTW, most countries that are friendly to foreign retirees or spouses have income requirements above the poverty level. Not sure why you would think that Thailand would be different.

You are allowed to work though. In fact, the requirements to get a work permit are pretty liberal compared to many western countries. Yes, they do restrict certain types of work but, well, it's a third-world country (I know, technically a developing nation but, really, that's PC for third-world plus) they have to think about their own economy and workforce before they worry about poor foreigners who want to move to their country and work. Same deal in most other countries, even developed nations.

[Rob8891]

Why would anyone want to do border runs every month or so, either to the border itself, or to immigration for renewals? I did a few runs initially but it was really annoying and more of a pain than it's worth. After which, I obtained a legal working visa which was dead easy. If you have no education and don't qualify for employment then you may need to sort that out in your home country and then come back if you can't live without Thailand.

There are other countries you can squat in if you're uneducated, a criminal, or someone who just can't seem to "fit in" back home. Thailand is trying to clean up it's "tourist" problems and if you're one of the latter mentioned, that problem is you.

Jesus! Who p'd in your porridge today then?

BTW Your knee-jerk post doesn't take into account the retirees here, (who are probably feeling quite left out of your invective). You say you tired of border runs, so you got a legal wp..... so you originally came here and worked illegally?.....and you look down on others????

[digibum]

Why would anyone want to do border runs every month or so, either to the border itself, or to immigration for renewals? I did a few runs initially but it was really annoying and more of a pain than it's worth. After which, I obtained a legal working visa which was dead easy. If you have no education and don't qualify for employment then you may need to sort that out in your home country and then come back if you can't live without Thailand.

There are other countries you can squat in if you're uneducated, a criminal, or someone who just can't seem to "fit in" back home. Thailand is trying to clean up it's "tourist" problems and if you're one of the latter mentioned, that problem is you.

Jesus! Who p'd in your porridge today then?

BTW Your knee-jerk post doesn't take into account the retirees here, (who are probably feeling quite left out of your invective). You say you tired of border runs, so you got a legal wp..... so you originally came here and worked illegally?.....and you look down on others????

Why would a retiree who has obtained a proper visa have any issue with what ThaiFever wrote?

[notmyself]

Believe me, if the average visa-abuser was spending 10,000 baht a day, Thai authorities would warmly welcome them.

But they didn't which is why most moved to Cambodia! Go to Cambodia and ask single well off people in their early to mid 50s if they have ever lived in Thailand and if they did, why they left. Ask how many got anything back from their so called 2 million Baht investment visa. Ask single well of people in the early to mid/ late 40s if they have ever lived in Thailand. Ask if what happened to the 2 million investment visa people had anything to do with their decision to live in Cambodia rather than Thailand. It's 10 million now for an investment visa and only someone with more money than sense would even consider it. The government know this full well which is why they tried to rejuvenate the Thai Elite card for 2 million but they still didn't get anyone to bite.

[Tchooptip]

On one hand Thailand is pushing for more Tourists to increase its GDP and on the other it is discouraging Tourists by severely tightening up on its Visa rules. One day Thailand will start to make sence.......

Once and for all Visa runners ARE NOT tourists grrr

[tonypace02]

If you have exhausted your 15 day visa, you may make a visa run but you must stay outside the country. Is that a fair compromise?

[Tywais]

It was only November 06, 2013 that immigration implemented a policy for G7 members that allow them 30 day visa exempt entry without limit. So what happened to that, back peddling again after only 4 months in effect?

Update 1st November 2013: Citizen from USA, UK, Canada, France, Germany, Italy and Japan arriving without visa will get 30 days of stay if they are arriving via a land border checkpoint from a neighbouring country.

However there is no limit on how many times you can enter on these 30/15 days visa exemption stamps.

• Travellers arriving via an international airport will still obtain a 30 day stay.
• Holders of valid Tourist Visa will be granted 60 day stay and a valid Non Immigrant Visa allow 90 day stay.

Source

Thaivisa announcement

30 days for holders of passports from UK, USA, Japan, Germany, France, Canada and Italy

BANGKOK: -- Royal Thai Immigration Bureau has confirmed to Thaivisa.com that holders of passports of UK, USA, Japan, Germany, France, Canada and Italy are since November 1, 2013 given 30 days at land borders instead of previously only 15 days.

[commie Joe]

Get married, get some kids, contribute with a decent job, pay some tax and commit. If you really like Thailand then commit and stop whining. Then get a permanent residence, only takes a few years. Tourists....well give them one or two free 30 day entries then charge them for renewal per 30 days, lets say 15,000 a month. Let them renew within the country. For someone who has paid a lot of tax and shown a lot of commitment people just dossing in Thailand or working illegally should pay their way.

I pay tax on everything I buy ,Oh, & tax on the employees , While I doss here in Thailand you can keep what you think is a good job. I think people that work here should pay 75% tax on earnigs .They should also have to pay at least 100k a year for work permits.You say a decent job . What could be a decent job in the heat of Thailand ? I would say dossing around. Now I kinow that you are prob jealous of people like me that dont need to work but if you work hard in your decent job it will only take afew years for you to be able to afford a flight back to wherever you originate from. You read like a really nice caring person so I hope one day you can get to rub shoulders with the HISO's

You prob don't know it lad, but you do in fact need to work..................on your attitude.

And did you learn so much about rubbing shoulders to soothe the pain from patting your back?

nice to see that there is support for the me,me,me, crowd. are you a a mega mega big worker with a fantasic Job in Thailand the same as carter ? You workers are so gooooooooooooood & so understanding of people that dont want the same crumy job in Thailand.

Why are you questioning my attitude when all I wrote was the same as carter as in suggestions to make life as hard as possible for people to just live their lifes .

The only time I do a border run is to kick in my next entry on my visa. However I dont get why the border runners are attacked by people on here that will even con people into timeshares & think they are better because they have a job.

Live & let live , wouldn't the world be a much better place if people stopped thinking they are better than the guy next to them just because they have more cash, really is sad isn't it nice man

[notmyself]

It was only November 06, 2013 that immigration implemented a policy for G7 members that allow them 30 day visa exempt entry without limit. So what happened to that, back peddling again after only 4 months in effect?

Update 1st November 2013: Citizen from USA, UK, Canada, France, Germany, Italy and Japan arriving without visa will get 30 days of stay if they are arriving via a land border checkpoint from a neighbouring country.

However there is no limit on how many times you can enter on these 30/15 days visa exemption stamps.

• Travellers arriving via an international airport will still obtain a 30 day stay.
• Holders of valid Tourist Visa will be granted 60 day stay and a valid Non Immigrant Visa allow 90 day stay.

Source

Thaivisa announcement

30 days for holders of passports from UK, USA, Japan, Germany, France, Canada and Italy

BANGKOK: -- Royal Thai Immigration Bureau has confirmed to Thaivisa.com that holders of passports of UK, USA, Japan, Germany, France, Canada and Italy are since November 1, 2013 given 30 days at land borders instead of previously only 15 days.

The without limit must have been an error which is fair enough if they are just pointing this out..... After 4 months.

[commie Joe]

Q: Where does tourist money come from?

A: Outside Thailand.

Q: Where do tourists spend their money?

A: Inside Thailand.

Q: How does money from other counties spent in Thailand, benefit the Thai economy?

A: Countless way... it would seem.

Q: Why then would you want to discourage tourists from staying as long as they want?

A: Hummmmmm.... let me get back to you on that...

"Q: Why then would you want to discourage tourists from staying as long as they want?

A: Hummmmmm.... let me get back to you on that..."

If they were legitimate tourists they would get tourist visas. If they fit in the several categories of legitimate long-stay residents, including meeting the financial requirements, they would get extensions of stay. Running back and forth across the border to get visa exempt entries (not visas on arrival as mentioned in the article) doesn't really add up to big time contributors to the economy.

I know there some people who have and spend money, don't need/want to work, aren't over 50, aren't married to a Thai and don't want to start a business. There is no guarantee that everyone who wants to stay in Thailand can and I doubt the loss of these people until they find a way to qualify for longer periods of stay, will severely impact the economy.

Some people on Thai Visa openly brag about making umpteen border crossings over many years and others advise readers that there is no problem doing so as often as you like ... and then surprise, surprise there may be a change of policy implemented by Immigrations at land borders. Don't blame the authorities for the (possible) rule changes. If you've been using this method for a long time and things may be changed, it's the serial abusers and the big time promoters of border runs here at TV who should get the credit.

so please tell why the border runners are abusing anything when they are simply obey the law by getting their passport stamped. What is the problem to anybody if a guy likes to use this method

serial abusers dear me . IT is the law so no abuse is it

[slipperylobster]

Continuing change and confusion. In the north, they recently extended the time to 30 days for land crossings, but limited this to 4 consecutive visa runs....

This latest change, if true and universal, May well cost the country quite a bit of income.

Actually, I think they are forcing the people who want to retire here to deposit their cash in Thailand. Some guys just won't do it (Like me).

Adios Thailand.....I just flew into the Philippines (where I started long ago) and they are welcoming me very big. 100,000 baht a month for the Philippines that you might of had a chance at.

How do they still walk with all those bullet holes in the feet.

Alas, many rich guys who want to build six million baht homes in the outback and put their life savings in the banks here. They love you.

[Sojuncoke]

are you guys forgetting about the burmese and cambodians that do visa runs for illegal work?

[samran]

are you guys forgetting about the burmese and cambodians that do visa runs for illegal work?

no, Lao, Cambodians and Burmese get to work on special 2 year renewable permits under the Migrant Labour Scheme insituted under agreements between the three countries.

[Tchooptip]

are you guys forgetting about the burmese and cambodians that do visa runs for illegal work?

no, Lao, Cambodians and Burmese get to work on special 2 year renewable permits under the Migrant Labour Scheme insituted under agreements between the three countries.

Good luck you are on the forum sometimes LOL

[losworld]

Apart from a few restricted professions ( and even in those you are hired as a consultant) access to the Thai job market is fairly liberal. No quotas in work permits, no national labour market tests before the work permit can be issued.

The fact of the matter is that the Thai labour market for the most part doesn't need expensive foreign labour who can't speak Thai. Nor, do they want your product, at least in the way you have offered it back home.

You say taxi driver? Are you going to work for 700 baht a day for a 12 hour shift if you are lucky?

Builder? Fine. Who's going to pay more than 400 baht per day for your services?

Bangkok is a slight exception to this rule, but even then there are plenty of well trained and well educated Thais who can't get the jobs they want.

If you think you can do it better, fine, by all means set up a firm and sell your product to people who might want it. Train up the workers to a comparable skill level - and then charge more to reflect that with higher prices.

I'm not saying any of this to be mean. However I often think that people often confuse the rules with what the market will bear for their services.

That's just rubbish,

I don't want to be managing director or consultant. I don't want to train anyone.

That isn't considered a proper job in my home country.

I want to be the bricklayer. A normal tradesman's job, all prohibited work in Thailand.

400bht a day, you try finding one for less than 1000-2000bht a day.

Where I live in MaeJo for a small house extension they want 250,000bht. Building materials about 25,000bht.

Air-con installers, 2500bht per job, easy to do five in a day.

You really are out of touch with prices for tradesmen.

There aren't too many countries in the world that are going to allow migrants to work on the basis of working in relatively unskilled fields. No offence.

Try migrating to Australia NZ Canada or the uk on the basis of being a bricklayer. Ain't going to happen.

You have to change your expectations.

Not exactly plenty of illegals working construction in the US and Canada.

[Maestro]

I removed two nonsensical posts.

• A post saying +1 makes no sense. At least two numbers are needed for an addition, but anyway this topic is not about mathematics.
• A post talking about an unspecified coffin makes no sense in the context of this topic.

[notmyself]

Continuing change and confusion. In the north, they recently extended the time to 30 days for land crossings, but limited this to 4 consecutive visa runs....

This latest change, if true and universal, May well cost the country quite a bit of income.

Actually, I think they are forcing the people who want to retire here to deposit their cash in Thailand. Some guys just won't do it (Like me).

Adios Thailand.....I just flew into the Philippines (where I started long ago) and they are welcoming me very big. 100,000 baht a month for the Philippines that you might of had a chance at.

How do they still walk with all those bullet holes in the feet.

Alas, many rich guys who want to build six million baht homes in the outback and put their life savings in the banks here. They love you.

It's only 800,000 but I get your point. I'm 50 in just over 3 years so looks like I will have to chuck a million into a Thai bank and have to consider it being lost. This irks me and is something that has been playing on my mind for some time. The only reason I have a million is because I have not been an idiot and putting that million into a Thai back is something I consider an idiotic act. If I lost it the very next day it really wouldn't matter all that much but that is not the point is it? Exchange rate is pretty good at the moment so if I am going to bring a million, now could be a good time. Hmmm.