Why Is Thailand So Backward?

[monochaser]

From CIA World Fact Book - http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html (for what that's worth - I assume that it is reasonably accurate, with respect to economic data):

GDP per capita (2005)

Singapore - US $28,00

Malaysia - US $12,100

Thailand - US $8,300

Philippines - US $5,100

Indonesia - US 3,600

Vietnam - US $2,800

Cambodia - US $2,200

Laos - US $1,900

Myanmar/Burma - US $1,700

GDP (purchasing power parity): - and GDP Growth Rate

Indonesia - US $865.6 Billion - 5.6%

Thailand - US $560.7 Billion - 4.5%

Philippines - US $451.3 Billion - 5.1%

Malaysia - US $290.2 Billion - 5.3%

Vietnam - US $232.2 Billion - 8.4%

Singapore - US $124.3 Billion - 6.4%

Myanmar/Burma - US $78.74 Billion - 2.9%

Cambodia - US $30.65 Billion - 6.0%

Laos - US $11.92 Billion - 7.2%

For Reference:

Australia - US $640.1 Billion - 2.5% GDP per capita: US $31,900

Germany - US $2.504 Trillion - 0.9% GDP per capita: US $30,400

Japan - US $4.018 Trillion - 2.7% GDP per capita: US $31,500

UK - US $1.869 Trillion - 1.7% GDP per capita: US $30,900

USA - US $12.36 Trillion - 3.5% GDP per capita: US $41,800

So - tell me again how Thailand's neighbors are tearing it to pieces with their economic success - because I just don't see it. Thailand has slower growth - but it is a lot harder to move a large economy by a few percentge points, than a smaller economy.

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

Well BILL GATES just visited Vietnam, and not Thailand.

You're missing the point, the point isnt that these other countries now have a higher GDP Thailand but the fact that the future growth of these countries is looking brighter, and Thailands is looking dimmer.

Its all over the press and the business journals I-S, your just not paying attention.

Some really great posts here, especially ROFL and Prakanong

The world's largest computer chip maker has been making hundreds of millions of dollars of investments in Southeast Asia in recent times but not a dime in Thailand. They recently announced plans for a new 300 Million dollar plant in Viet Nam and the chip giant has invested 3 billion USD in Malaysia where it employs 10600 workers or 10% of its workforce. Those are some huge numbers. This is just one example of Thailand's neighbors getting huge investments from a behemoth company. Intel has not invested one thin dime in Thailand. There must be a clear reason for this.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=100...id=a.X6AIHuz4PE

[Misplaced]

I know exactly that language is important for us nowaday and for the new generation too. That is why we hire more efficiant Teachers , narrative teachers from overseas to improve our children.

We are tying hard to improve.

chai leaw krup!

Well, as I see it, the English problem is partly due to lack of qualified teachers

Agree, One of the problem is our school admistrators continually hiring UNQUALIFIED English teachers. This includes any Thai or foreign personel(s) who has never received formal educational training.

and historical reasons, and partly due to attitude. I recall a post of mine here a few months ago describing the complete inability to converse in English in SCB branches and I do recall very well the reply I got from an affluent Thai on this board that was educated in the US - his proud reply was that he does not see a problem with the fact that not a single person in the branch can communicate in English.

I don't think this is an exception. Maybe another way for the hi-so elite to distinguish themselves from the masses?

BTW, For all you people keep bringing the point of "why take these criticism personally ?". Well, its really not hard to explaing, the fact that you're livinging in our homeland,married and have children in our country, but in the same breath, have the audacity to criticise our cultures, our women and our way of life would infuriate anyone (and rightly so).

So how can you blame Thai people for not being upset and disgusted by your comments? Its called PRIDE! something you may have little of?

I have zero problems discussing polical issues, economic issues and general topics. But, when you start to belittled our women, Bargirl or not, it irritate me til no ends. It shows lack of respect and appreciation on YOUR part. You as our guess should know better.

Our country may have its faults but its our country and we love it!. As I've been told many times in the US, "love it or leave it", so, I say the same to you.

[Ulysses G.]

Our country may have its faults but its our country and we love it!. As I've been told many times in the US, "love it or leave it", so, I say the same to you.

I love it. I LOVE it!!!!

[KhunMarco]

I can understand you Misplaced, but it's the "nature" of the beast.

Look, I'm from Italy and I visit often a forum of expats living in Italy, I like to help them with the language, culture clash etc.

Well it's the same there, complains, rants , how bad is the traffic, scams , lack of spoken English and all that jazz.

I'm sure there are forums for Thai expats living abroad and I'm sure you can find people complaining there too.

Just like watching the news on Telev. it seems the whole world is a hel_l of a place.

Ps. Ah some expats even complain about the food in my country....shhheeessshhh how they dare!?!?

Edited June 3, 2006 by KhunMarco

[ColPyat]

As I've been told many times in the US, "love it or leave it", so, I say the same to you.

Well, many of us don't view the US as a paragon of western civilisation, therefore, please don't come up with the 'love it or leave it' cowboy comments here.

Only through constructive criticism people and cultures grow. And Thailand has a dire need of growth and development right now if it does not want to keep falling behind some far more energetic countries in the region. Swalling ones pride of something so irrational, as the concept of a country is, would be a good first step.

Time to face reality - Thailand is caught up in a semi-feudal sythem with an evergrowing gap between rich and poor, a rising polarisation along regions and socio-economical lines manifested in the present political mess.

Basically, you can shove your "pride" into a place where the sun won't ever shine, and think about how to solve the frigging mess this place is increasingly slipping. Different than you, most of your fellow Thais don't have the option to piss off to the rich west when the shit hits the fan here, they gotta suffer the mess. And the last thing they can raise their families on is some middle class sensitivities of "pride".

So, yes, we criticise, but because we live here, are responsible for our families, and are extremely worried how our extended families can survive in the future in this basically unjust sythem.

End of rant.

[Ulysses G.]

Ps. Ah some expats even complain about the food in my country....shhheeessshhh how they dare!?!?

El dente' spagetti sucks.

Learn how to make it right!

[ColPyat]

El dente' spagetti sucks.

Learn how to make it right!

Oh me god!

Is this the beginning of another great European dish being perverted beyond recognition by you septics?

Edited June 3, 2006 by ColPyat

[Ulysses G.]

Our pizza is better too!

[ColPyat]

Our pizza is better too!

BLASPHEMY!!!

The only kitchen that you guys invented actually is "fusion" (if you can call mixing different kitchens that independently taste great but thrown together are just a crime against good taste). Everything else is a bad copy of the original.

Even your infamous "hamburger" is nothing but a lousy copy of the original "frikadellen broetchen" from northern Germany. The original lovely baked bread is replaced by a horribly soggy soft vomit inducing thing of sponge-like consistency, and the whole thing killed off with a slab of ketchup.

Sorry, gotta go and throw up for a while...

Edited June 3, 2006 by ColPyat

[Plus]

Our pizza is better too!

Is there any other pizza? Those bastardly Italian pies can't be called pizza.

As everyone already knows real pizza only grows in New York.

If those Italians keep using the word pizza, sue them, Ulysses.

>>>>>>>>>>

To Indo-Siam, incindentally just yesterday Thaksin unveiled the grand plan of widening rail tracks nationwide, from 1 m to 1.4 m. The esitmated cost is 30-40 billion baht. Oh... wait, he proposed to study the possiblilites first, to continue on the previous study which was three years ago, perhaps already outdated. They will also plan to do a study on how to lay double tracks - possibly all the way to Nakhon Sawan!

Road/rail integration with India, China, and Singapore will be completed right in time for Bangkok winter olympics.

To Kathe and Misplaced - why don't you, Thais, pay attention to what other, senior Thais are telling you. Why don't you argue with privy councilor Kasem Wattanachai or Anand Panyarachoon? They've been predicting doom and gloom for Thailand for a few years already. They go for the roots - decline in ethics and morality, they argue that Thais are growing into a nation of lazy cheats with misplaced values and have no future unless they start actually working to create wealth, not stealing from each other (through corruption).

The world isn't waiting.

[KhunMarco]

Our pizza is better too!

Is there any other pizza? Those bastardly Italian pies can't be called pizza.

As everyone already knows real pizza only grows in New York.

If those Italians keep using the word pizza, sue them, Ulysses.

Argglllllll , attaaaaaaaack to the naaaaaation, call the aaaaaarmy,merda... where is the icon with the finger?!?!

Ok this time we forgive you ' cause you are taste impaired by genes, it's not your fault .

Edited June 3, 2006 by KhunMarco

[ColPyat]

Argglllllll , attaaaaaaaack to the naaaaaation, call the aaaaaarmy,merda... where is the icon with the finger?!?!

Ok this time we forgive you ' cause you are taste impaired by genes, it's not your fault .

However disfunctional Italy might be in almost every other aspect, Italian kitchen is the best kitchen in the world.

[Plus]

Marco, that part about pizza was sarcasm.

"They don't have sarcasm in Betelgeuse and Ford Prefect rarely noticed it unless he was concentrating" - HHGG.

Do you have sarcasm in Italy?

[KhunMarco]

Marco, that part about pizza was sarcasm.

"They don't have sarcasm in Betelgeuse and Ford Prefect rarely noticed it unless he was concentrating" - HHGG.

Do you have sarcasm in Italy?

Scratch scratch... hermm ..I thought you understood that was a humorous answer to your sarcastic comment

Do you have humor in fastfoodland or Mr. Bush has the monopoly ?

Just kidding eh !!!

Edited June 3, 2006 by KhunMarco

[Chang_paarp]

On your red paragraph was my irony. The whole post was also irony to the one who always asking..why why...

I know exactly that language is important for us nowaday and for the new generation too. That is why we hire more efficiant Teachers , narrative teachers from overseas to improve our children.

We are tying hard to improve.

Kathe

You are wasting your breath/time he is a yank, they don't do irony.

[monochaser]

Thais never want to hear anything negative about their country no matter how trivial the thing might be. There is never acknowledgement of any defect no matter how small. clearly this has rubbed off on some farangs as evidenced on this website. I guess it has something to do with face obsession. this attitude makes improvement downright impossible.

[Michael W]

Thailand is caught up in a semi-feudal sythem

this basically unjust sythem

Sorry, what's a 'sythem' ? Thought it might be a typo but you spelled it the same way twice, and it's not in the online Webster's (m-w.com) nor OED (AskOxford.com) nor tfd.com nor dictionary.com, nor does Google turn up anything obvious either.

[jackr]

Thais never want to hear anything negative about their country no matter how trivial the thing might be. There is never acknowledgement of any defect no matter how small. clearly this has rubbed off on some farangs as evidenced on this website. I guess it has something to do with face obsession. this attitude makes improvement downright impossible.

Yep, it's all about face; don't question wrong-doers, keep your trap shut in class, no lateral thinking etc for fear of embarrasing others or yourself. Bit childish at the end of the day, particularly so in the political and business world, and they're never going to reach the heights of Singapore et al until they come to terms with this.

A really good start would be to get some educational material on the television. Watching grown men giggling profusely at 'joker' or some typical wining soap with all the trimmings is comical in itself. How about a bit of geography, nature, and history of other cultures?

Misplaced and Kathe: surprised at your last post having been to the West yourself and had the chance to see the world from another perspective. I can see where pride may come into it, but perhaps time to swallow that reality pill like the rest of Muang Thai could do with. Saying we don't need to speak English, we have our own language, you're all guests, don't criticize, is typical I'm sorry to say.

BTW, I love it here

[ColPyat]

Thailand is caught up in a semi-feudal sythem

this basically unjust sythem

Sorry, what's a 'sythem' ? Thought it might be a typo but you spelled it the same way twice, and it's not in the online Webster's (m-w.com) nor OED (AskOxford.com) nor tfd.com nor dictionary.com, nor does Google turn up anything obvious either.

It's a typo. "System" is one of the words i seem to consistently spell the wrong way.

[ColPyat]

Thais never want to hear anything negative about their country no matter how trivial the thing might be.

Let's not get here into generalisations, please.

There are many Thais around who do not buy into this nationalistic brainwashed pride defense rubbish, with whom you can have perfectly normal conversations about anything including criticising Thai politics, society and culture.

Obviously it is far easier to hold those conversations in Thai language, as this is somewhat proof that you, the farang, has spent more than superficial brain movements on this topic matter.

Which is fair enough - to be in a position to criticise from an educated viewpoint one should be able to speak and understand Thai at least to some level.

[Totster]

That's an interesting concept though.How many people here would have come or kept visiting Thailand if the shelias were not so available? (and I'm not just talking BG's here!)

But.. we're not talking about repeat tourism.. The fact still remains that many many people come to Thailand for reasons other than Sheilas...

totster

Whats the big deal T? You're denying the obvious.

Answer me this, why are there so few Western Women here?

Im not saying that there aren't lots of other "good" things about Thailand, but if all these other "reasons" for coming here were "why" people come here then one would think there would be a shit load of western women here. The fact is there arent many western women here when compared to the amount of men.

So denying that the pretty sights are the main pull for people visiting Thailand is putting your head in the sand and denying the reality of Thailand.

What ??

I haven't said NO ONE comes for the women.. I said it's not the ONLY reason people come to Thailand..

So where's the denial... ? where's the head in the sand..?

totster

OK, we've just plummeted into the pit of semantics.

No worries, I now understand that you understand that the majority of visitors and ex-pats are attracted by the volume and availability of pretty women in Thailand.

I understand that pretty girls bring a certain amount of visitors/expats.. but I don't have the available data to go so far as to say majority.

totster

[Sir Burr]

Thailand is caught up in a semi-feudal sythem

this basically unjust sythem

Sorry, what's a 'sythem' ? Thought it might be a typo but you spelled it the same way twice, and it's not in the online Webster's (m-w.com) nor OED (AskOxford.com) nor tfd.com nor dictionary.com, nor does Google turn up anything obvious either.

It's a typo. "System" is one of the words i seem to consistently spell the wrong way.

Dyslexics of the world, untie!!!

[Misplaced]

Well, if it isn't the pot calling the kettle black! Apparently you all can't handle the criticism yourself.

As I've been told many times in the US, "love it or leave it", so, I say the same to you.

Well, many of us don't view the US as a paragon of western civilisation, therefore, please don't come up with the 'love it or leave it' cowboy comments here. Atleast you were decent enough to say please, so we'll obliged

Only through constructive criticism people and cultures grow. And Thailand has a dire need of growth and development right now if it does not want to keep falling behind some far more energetic countries in the region. Swalling ones pride of something so irrational, as the concept of a country is, would be a good first step. Constructive criticism are always welcome but a constant belittling of our women gets tiresome. Thats my problem (if you care to go back and read my post). If you are asking me to swallow my pride because of that than I think you're mad.

Time to face reality - Thailand is caught up in a semi-feudal sythem with an evergrowing gap between rich and poor, a rising polarisation along regions and socio-economical lines manifested in the present political mess. Agreed-nor have I ever dispute that

Basically, you can shove your "pride" into a place where the sun won't ever shine , and think about how to solve the frigging mess this place is increasingly slipping. Different than you, most of your fellow Thais don't have the option to piss off to the rich west when the shit hits the fan here, they gotta suffer the mess. And the last thing they can raise their families on is some middle class sensitivities of "pride". The first place I can think of is your Arse. I'm assuming thats where you weer talking about?. Remainder of your paragraphs, <deleted> are you ranting about? Are you drunk or just making shit up as you go along?

So, yes, we criticise, but because we live here, are responsible for our families, and are extremely worried how our extended families can survive in the future in this basically unjust sythem.

I'll give you some credit, atleast you're taking care of your family and worry about their future. I do as well.

End of rant. (thank god)

[tutsiwarrior]

ahem...I've been in HCMC for 3 months and I can say that VN will overtake Thai regarding all econ indicators very soon...not to say that there ain't corruption and etc, but people here know how to make a buck and are driven...and were also brutalised by the US embargo...they snub their noses again with their economic success after military victory

hard to reconcile that the beautiful VN lady that you look at is also a 'business monster'...ie., no time for leisure, just work then home with the family and associated responsibilities...in great contrast to what we have in Thailand...the party whorehouse of SE Asia...they got that stuff in Vung Tao but nobody pays too much attention

my experience has been in Thailand and Indonesia and I say VN is gonna gobble you up soon...forget Malaysia and S'pore...

Edited June 3, 2006 by tutsiwarrior

[Belfastboy]

wow...just checked the topic i started and was stunned as to the interest it attracted...

firstly let me say i wasn't having a go at thailand...i love thailand too...just after reading Malaysia excellent plan for 2020 it got the hamster in the cage thinking....

i would have to agree with the posts by ROFL and Prak....

anyone with any business sense and financial know how, knows that thailand IS getting left behind by its neighbours...

Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos all have better mind sets from their younger people , they have "drive"

and the figures for english literacy from these countries prove that there future is bright....

there is no reason why thailand cannot follow Malaysia's example...they just need a good kick up the rear.

the poster who said they didnt need to learn or speak english...well, i rest my case. a perfect example of a numpty...!

fair enough if you want your country to stand still, cool....but dont expect your quality of life to improve....

after all thats what it all about at the end of the day, all the hard work is for a better quality of life for your family and business and drive have a means to an end.....

and for all the bar stool blogs, i wouldnt expect anything else, only the blinkers of the bottom of a beer can and a joe bag...

it all depends want you want to drive for....if you have no drive what the point of life???

thailand get your arse in gear before its too late..

[wasabi]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/04Jun2006_news01.php

Thai finance Minister thinks another financial crisis might be on the way.

Interestingly he comments Thai's are falling behind in educational and job skills from neighboring countries.

Virabongsa Ramangura, former finance minister and deputy prime minister, said

''We are worried that if Thailand can't cope with this economic situation in time, the country could run into a new round of economic crisis,'' he said.

He called on the government to come up with austerity programmes to encourage Thais to economise and stop spending lavishly.

****This story is being covered in the news forum. Please do not cut/paste whole stories from copyrighted sources******

Edited June 3, 2006 by cdnvic

[Belfastboy]

came across another article to back up what my thinking is...and what the outside world sees thailand in regards to its economy, just another factor...

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail....&d_str=20060522

the thing is also...the most thai people i know agree thai kids are lazy, compared with other nationalities...ie chinese, indian, vietnamise, etc... maybe the factor that thai children are basically treated like babies until about 30, and even then they still are more concerned about a "kitty" toothbrush to match a "kitty" freakin toilet roll holder..! whereas there counterparts regionally are investing in their education and working ###### hard to achieve something in their lives.

also maybe it might be a buddist thing...? i asked my father in law, through translation of course of what do buddist's believe when on the topic of the creation of the earth....to be told they never think about that ??? .....just makes me wonder about the whole mindset....

maybe im being harse here...everyone is different i guess....but i have to stop my own mind thinking and researching, i just dont get it how u cannot think beyond today and the four walls.....

[cdnvic]

came across another article to back up what my thinking is...and what the outside world sees thailand in regards to its economy, just another factor...

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail....&d_str=20060522

the thing is also...the most thai people i know agree thai kids are lazy, compared with other nationalities...ie chinese, indian, vietnamise, etc... maybe the factor that thai children are basically treated like babies until about 30, and even then they still are more concerned about a "kitty" toothbrush to match a "kitty" freakin toilet roll holder..! whereas there counterparts regionally are investing in their education and working ###### hard to achieve something in their lives.

also maybe it might be a buddist thing...? i asked my father in law, through translation of course of what do buddist's believe when on the topic of the creation of the earth....to be told they never think about that ??? .....just makes me wonder about the whole mindset....

maybe im being harse here...everyone is different i guess....but i have to stop my own mind thinking and researching, i just dont get it how u cannot think beyond today and the four walls.....

You can't seriously be ranting about educational standards whith that many spelling, gramatical, and punctuation errors, can you?

cv

[monochaser]

Maybe so but this is not about Belfastboy, it's about Thailand

[Khun Jean]

Thais never want to hear anything negative about their country no matter how trivial the thing might be.

Let's not get here into generalisations, please.

There are many Thais around who do not buy into this nationalistic brainwashed pride defense rubbish, with whom you can have perfectly normal conversations about anything including criticising Thai politics, society and culture.

Obviously it is far easier to hold those conversations in Thai language, as this is somewhat proof that you, the farang, has spent more than superficial brain movements on this topic matter.

Which is fair enough - to be in a position to criticise from an educated viewpoint one should be able to speak and understand Thai at least to some level.

You only have to look at what percentage voted for TRT to see that many are driven by this 'nationalistic brainwashed pride defense rubbish'. Many are not, much more are. It just depends in which circles you move around. In my opinion only poorly informed people have nationalistic tendencies.

It maybe politically incorrect but for businesses and economic puposes generalisations are the most important.

Just to give you a non volatile example.

If you are a cheese exporter it is good to do research and come to a conclusion that 'Thais don't like cheese'. My wife is the victim of that generalisation because she constantly complains why she can't buy 'old Amsterdam' cheese here in Thailand. For the cheese exporter it is a very valid generalisation. It saves them from making a big loss.

In my family everyone works hard, some have management positions. The thing they complain about is that Thais are lazy and unresourcefull. Not my words as a farang. The way to keep employees is to hire relatives and make them responsible for eachother. Something completely unheard of in the western world, here an insurance that keeps employees coming to work on time and have a good days work done. A problem is that even though they work hard, higher positions are reserved for family and friends, even if they are not fit for the job. A very effective way to demotivate your employees.

There are many generalisations which are very valid. About work and work 'drive' in particular. In my opinion it has to do with being only 1 generation from the farm (jungle) for a lot of people. The worry was 'do i have enough to eat tomorrow', which now is replaced by its western feeling of 'do i have enough money for later'. It is debateable(sp) which style is better, but it is going in the western direction. Is that a generalisation or an observation?

Then you have the 'mai pen rai' mentallity. 'Face', enough has been said about that.

Punctuality, quality, service, the list is long.

All generalisations with important consequences if you want to do business here. You can read all about it in your countries chambers of commerce about doing business with Thailand. For a real live experience walk into a shop and ask a question, i bet you get blank stares 90% of the time. You will get the impression people are stupid, which is not true of course. They are just employees who did not get a proper training. The generalisation here is 'employees do not get proper training'.

World economies need people who have skills and are competitive. Thailand has only a few, and some of those are trying to escape this 'system' to really go for a better live. A better live meaning the ability to control your own destiny and being free of debt and financial burdens. The better live we all want to have.

In time of course it will be better, for now and the near future Thailand is way behind.

Thailand has and still is very isolated from the rest of the world. A government who is caring for its people should open up its 'information' borders. Use television for passive education purposes. Stop dubbing every movie, documentary or other programm.

Start being the 'hub' of knowledge before attempting to be a 'hub' in anything else.

It is all about priorities and decisions with vision.