Testosterone - legal and available in Thailand?

[robblok]

What i dont understand is why people dont take blood tests if they are doing HRT.

If you are doing something that has potential health impact is it so hard to go to a clinic and pay around 800 bt for an estrogen test. Take some other tests too its cheap here.

You are right. Blood panels are important.

I don't know if it was mentioned but frequent Hemoglobin, Hemocrit testing is very important also.

It can get very high with T spiking and can lead to stroke or heart attack.

Correct, also an important test to do as high test influences that too.

[jonnyramone]

What i dont understand is why people dont take blood tests if they are doing HRT.

If you are doing something that has potential health impact is it so hard to go to a clinic and pay around 800 bt for an estrogen test. Take some other tests too its cheap here.

The reason why I choose gel instead of vials is because I've done blood test before, during and after testosteone therapy. I worked for 30 years as Biologist at the microbiology lab in Vrije University, Brussels , I know what I'm talking about . As I said before, anyone reacts differently on drugs, we are not the same.

Vials are depot preparations , it does mean they are made to remain in your body long time...Some endos believe that the accumulation of testosterone in the body is the main cause of the side effects (water ritention,high estrogen, axis suppression , etc.etc.). I agree that gel and tablets can suppress the gonads/hypothalamus too, but, as I said before, they are both more manageable than vials because they have a short duration. No accumulation with gel or tablets.

I sugggest anyone going to real hospytal instead of wasting money in clinics. Hormonal blood test are not easy to do , they require special machines with expensive chemical reagents working at low temperature . Considering the high temperature here and the lack of professionalism , I bet that most of the blood test the clinics perform are fake.

An finally...To get your real hormonal situation you should do : SHBG (Sex hormone-binding globulin), Free testosterone (Total testosterone is useless), 17B estradiol , prolactin, and of course FSH and LH .

The cost will be more and more than 800 baht..trust me.

It's ridiculos listening people who thinks that a Testosterone/Estrogen test is enough....

[robblok]

What i dont understand is why people dont take blood tests if they are doing HRT.

If you are doing something that has potential health impact is it so hard to go to a clinic and pay around 800 bt for an estrogen test. Take some other tests too its cheap here.

The reason why I choose gel instead of vials is because I've done blood test before, during and after testosteone therapy. I worked for 30 years as Biologist at the microbiology lab in Vrije University, Brussels , I know what I'm talking about . As I said before, anyone reacts differently on drugs, we are not the same.

Vials are depot preparations , it does mean they are made to remain in your body long time...Some endos believe that the accumulation of testosterone in the body is the main cause of the side effects (water ritention,high estrogen, axis suppression , etc.etc.). I agree that gel and tablets can suppress the gonads/hypothalamus too, but, as I said before, they are both more manageable than vials because they have a short duration. No accumulation with gel or tablets.

I sugggest anyone going to real hospytal instead of wasting money in clinics. Hormonal blood test are not easy to do , they require special machines with expensive chemical reagents working at low temperature . Considering the high temperature here and the lack of professionalism , I bet that most of the blood test the clinics perform are fake.

An finally...To get your real hormonal situation you should do : SHBG (Sex hormone-binding globulin), Free testosterone (Total testosterone is useless), 17B estradiol , prolactin, and of course FSH and LH .

The cost will be more and more than 800 baht..trust me.

It's ridiculos listening people who thinks that a Testosterone/Estrogen test is enough....

Seems you have absolutely no idea what your talking about for the blood test. These tests are not done in the clinics, they are all send to the same laboratory in BKK. So in this area you have no idea what you are talking about.

www.bangkoklab.com (that is where they all go and that is where you get the printout from)

Duration in the system has nothing to do with the side effects. The dosage has, and if you want short duration then just take an other kind of testosterone. Problem is then that you have to inject more frequent. The water retention you are talking about is a direct result from a higher estrogen. No idea why you mention them both separate. So again it depends on the dose you will see more side effects on a higher dose.

You are right to take more tests, i take all those tests and I get around 2000 bt. When I do tests I do a battery of tests not just free estradiol but in my opinion its the least what someone should do.

Test ethane has a half life of 7 days.. so your right it stays long in the system. But if you do it correctly its far better as capsules. But your entiteled to your opinion as am I. I know that injections are always the best delivery system. Just ask any DR specialized in HRT.

Edited May 8, 2016 by robblok

[bkk6060]

You guys more know then I do all the tests you mention I get. But, in the USA.

Another one my Doc. told me to get is the PSA test. I guess your PSA can rise with T therapy.

[inbangkok]

You guys more know then I do all the tests you mention I get. But, in the USA.

Another one my Doc. told me to get is the PSA test. I guess your PSA can rise with T therapy.

Yeah, that is arguably the most important. T therapy actually wont increase it though.......the concern is that if your PSA in increasing due to prostate cancer, testosterone can speed the growth of the cancer. Any good Dr. will always check PSA before prescribing testosterone, and from my understanding, best to check every 6 months after that. If PSA begins to rise, you would have to rule out cancer of any type in order to continue.

[inbangkok]

It might be helpful if anyone knows a good Dr in Thailand who specializes in weekly TRT therapy (not this every 2-6 week nonsense) . It appears that the vast majority of Dr's here are not super knowledge about this area of Medicine. I have also had two Dr's inform me that TRT is still pretty uncommon in Thailand, thus the reason why even endocrinologists and urologists don't seem to be super knowledgeable about it.

[jonnyramone]

Seems you have absolutely no idea what your talking about for the blood test. These tests are not done in the clinics, they are all send to the same laboratory in BKK. So in this area you have no idea what you are talking about.

www.bangkoklab.com (that is where they all go and that is where you get the printout from)

Duration in the system has nothing to do with the side effects. The dosage has, and if you want short duration then just take an other kind of testosterone. Problem is then that you have to inject more frequent. The water retention you are talking about is a direct result from a higher estrogen. No idea why you mention them both separate. So again it depends on the dose you will see more side effects on a higher dose.

You are right to take more tests, i take all those tests and I get around 2000 bt. When I do tests I do a battery of tests not just free estradiol but in my opinion its the least what someone should do.

Test ethane has a half life of 7 days.. so your right it stays long in the system. But if you do it correctly its far better as capsules. But your entiteled to your opinion as am I. I know that injections are always the best delivery system. Just ask any DR specialized in HRT.

Well, I might have no idea about blood test in Pattaya clinics but certainly you are not very informed about managing blood and blood product transfer.

Any blood sample that is exposed to temperatures outside refrigeration specifications (7-8 degrees) for longer than 30 minutes will alter the parameters.That's the reason why I was suggestion the gentlemen here to do their hormonal samples in hospytals having qualified lab test or at least a trusted transport service with special vehicles equipped with very expensive cold storage compartments (wich I doubt Pattaya clinics have), able to transfer blood without altering hormonal parameters.

The water ritention I'm talking about is not related to high estrogen...It could be a cause but not the only one. Testosterone, like all the anabolic steroids, increases the amount of nitrogen , sodium and water stored in body tissues . This is one of the main cause of Hypertension and eventually stroke.

....And finally.....Testosterone enanthate has half life of 7 days ? I thought it was 2 weeks.....

Now I understand why arimidex and other smilar stuff are involved in this topic.

Edited May 8, 2016 by jonnyramone

[robblok]

Seems you have absolutely no idea what your talking about for the blood test. These tests are not done in the clinics, they are all send to the same laboratory in BKK. So in this area you have no idea what you are talking about.

www.bangkoklab.com (that is where they all go and that is where you get the printout from)

Duration in the system has nothing to do with the side effects. The dosage has, and if you want short duration then just take an other kind of testosterone. Problem is then that you have to inject more frequent. The water retention you are talking about is a direct result from a higher estrogen. No idea why you mention them both separate. So again it depends on the dose you will see more side effects on a higher dose.

You are right to take more tests, i take all those tests and I get around 2000 bt. When I do tests I do a battery of tests not just free estradiol but in my opinion its the least what someone should do.

Test ethane has a half life of 7 days.. so your right it stays long in the system. But if you do it correctly its far better as capsules. But your entiteled to your opinion as am I. I know that injections are always the best delivery system. Just ask any DR specialized in HRT.

Well, I might have no idea about blood test in Pattaya clinics but certainly you are not very informed about managing blood and blood product transfer.

Any blood sample that is exposed to temperatures outside refrigeration specifications (7-8 degrees) for longer than 30 minutes will alter the parameters.That's the reason why I was suggestion the gentlemen here to do their hormonal samples in hospytals having qualified lab test or at least a trusted transport service with special vehicles equipped with very expensive cold storage compartments (wich I doubt Pattaya clinics have), able to transfer blood without altering hormonal parameters.

The water ritention I'm talking about is not related to high estrogen...It could be a cause but not the only one. Testosterone, like all the anabolic steroids, increases the amount of nitrogen , sodium and water stored in body tissues . This is one of the main cause of Hypertension and eventually stroke.

....And finally.....Testosterone enanthate has half life of 7 days ? I thought it was 2 weeks.....

Now I understand why arimidex and other smilar stuff are involved in this topic.

I was talking about Bangkok clinics, here all the samples go to the lab i mentioned. I did not know this at first and I went all the way to that lab to do tests. They told me that they collect all the samples from all the labs around BKK and test them in the lab. So later I just went to a clinic near my home for testing. I assume that they keep the blood cool. But your right there is always a risk especially in Thailand that rules are not followed. But as this is one lab that services loads of clinics I assume (could be wrong) that they have set up a special service for that too.

The water retention I was talking about was based on the estrogen and yes that is the reason why people talk about arimidex so you don't hold extra water. But as you also pointed out too low estrogen is bad too, that is why tests are needed as you correctly pointed out we don't all respond the same to medicine. Though most people who are on a dose lower as 250 mg of test a week do ok on 1/4 a tablet of arimidex every day.

I read the half-life was 7-9 days still long, there are other versions like propionate that has a half life of 2-3 days.. but that is too short if you only want to inject once a week.

Anyway anyone on HRT should really read up about it and know what they are getting into and they should do blood tests.

Thank you for telling me about the nitrogen, I did not know that. I thought all water retention from steroids was estrogen based.

I do know that I test my blood pressure too especially when I am taking creatine too because too much water retention is bad for you for the reasons you mentioned before.

[bkk6060]

I have had consistent blood tests in the US for the past 3 years. Every 3 months. I did have a panel done here in BKK last year.

It was missing the results on several tests I requested, and the numbers on a few were way off my consistent levels.

I would not trust it here.

They will keep the blood cool? Really? Do they keep Chicken, fish, beef, pork cool??

Especially, if you are out of the city good luck with that.

Also, there are some smart experienced people on here. It is a great thread.

My Doctor in the US is 68 and has been on T therapy for 20 years. He says every 13 to 14 days is just fine for the shots 250.

What some of you on here are saying makes sense, but I am happy with every 2 weeks as I have had no side affects and feel great.

Edited May 9, 2016 by bkk6060

[mokwit]

Quick Q for those who inject: Once an an ampoule is opened you can't use half and keep half - even in the fridge? i.e not sterile. I think I know the answer to this. it seems there are bottles (10ml?) that are designed for multiple shots taken from it but don't know if have here.

Was thinking of 2x SubQ/week using Testoviron Depot injectable steroid: amp per unit (250 mg/ml). BUT each dose is half ampoule.

Reason for wanting 2x SubQ of 1/2 250mg is to avoid overshoot as It seems it is overshoot above normal range that causes high estradiol conversion (also want stable levels). My concern here is prostate enlargement, which it seems estradiol plays a part in far more than DHT as is the classic theory. Also if can reduce estradiol conversion less of other sides maybe. Aramidex, SERM such as clomiphene and also Mesterolone are options to control I know.

Edited May 9, 2016 by mokwit

[robblok]

I have had consistent blood tests in the US for the past 3 years. Every 3 months. I did have a panel done here in BKK last year.

It was missing the results on several tests I requested, and the numbers on a few were way off my consistent levels.

I would not trust it here.

They will keep the blood cool? Really? Do they keep Chicken, fish, beef, pork cool??

Especially, if you are out of the city good luck with that.

Also, there are some smart experienced people on here. It is a great thread.

My Doctor in the US is 68 and has been on T therapy for 20 years. He says every 13 to 14 days is just fine for the shots 250.

What some of you on here are saying makes sense, but I am happy with every 2 weeks as I have had no side affects and feel great.

Dr'rs are not all knowing and IMHO every 2 weeks is too long. You would have a lot of difference in your test levels over that time.

Just look at the quickly made table based on a half life of 7 days first injecting every 2 weeks the second injecting every week

You see that the blood values are far more stable if you inject every week. So really DR's don't know everything. By doing it every 2 weeks you got a far more high low situation. But if your comfortable with that ... so be it.

Disclaimer.. this is simplified of-course.. just to give an idea.

Edited May 9, 2016 by robblok

[jonnyramone]

I was talking about Bangkok clinics, here all the samples go to the lab i mentioned. I did not know this at first and I went all the way to that lab to do tests. They told me that they collect all the samples from all the labs around BKK and test them in the lab. So later I just went to a clinic near my home for testing. I assume that they keep the blood cool. But your right there is always a risk especially in Thailand that rules are not followed. But as this is one lab that services loads of clinics I assume (could be wrong) that they have set up a special service for that too.

Well, I might have no idea about blood test in Pattaya clinics but certainly you are not very informed about managing blood and blood product transfer.

Any blood sample that is exposed to temperatures outside refrigeration specifications (7-8 degrees) for longer than 30 minutes will alter the parameters.That's the reason why I was suggestion the gentlemen here to do their hormonal samples in hospytals having qualified lab test or at least a trusted transport service with special vehicles equipped with very expensive cold storage compartments (wich I doubt Pattaya clinics have), able to transfer blood without altering hormonal parameters.

The water ritention I'm talking about is not related to high estrogen...It could be a cause but not the only one. Testosterone, like all the anabolic steroids, increases the amount of nitrogen , sodium and water stored in body tissues . This is one of the main cause of Hypertension and eventually stroke.

....And finally.....Testosterone enanthate has half life of 7 days ? I thought it was 2 weeks.....

Now I understand why arimidex and other smilar stuff are involved in this topic.

The water retention I was talking about was based on the estrogen and yes that is the reason why people talk about arimidex so you don't hold extra water. But as you also pointed out too low estrogen is bad too, that is why tests are needed as you correctly pointed out we don't all respond the same to medicine. Though most people who are on a dose lower as 250 mg of test a week do ok on 1/4 a tablet of arimidex every day.

I read the half-life was 7-9 days still long, there are other versions like propionate that has a half life of 2-3 days.. but that is too short if you only want to inject once a week.

Anyway anyone on HRT should really read up about it and know what they are getting into and they should do blood tests.

Thank you for telling me about the nitrogen, I did not know that. I thought all water retention from steroids was estrogen based.

I do know that I test my blood pressure too especially when I am taking creatine too because too much water retention is bad for you for the reasons you mentioned before.

I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about Pattaya Clinics....Since you are in Bangkok situation is different of course.

I did testosterone test in Bumrungrand several times....Never been disappointed...All the time I was on testo, blood test shows low FSH and LH ( temporary testicle shut down) and medium/high free testosterone levels. So my conclusion is that Bumrungrand lab is quite accurate and true.

The enanthate (testoviron 250) seems to be more popular in Europe , prescription dosage is 250 mg. every 3 or 4 weeks. In America testosterone cypionate is mostly used instead with a prescription dosage of 200 mg. a week or 10 days . It seems that cypionate has a shorter half-life than enanthate (not like propionate anyway).

In Thailand the Bayer-Shering group has factories so it's easy to find real enanthate in any pharmacy here while propionate and cypionate are both made by T P Drug (Cypionax - Testolic) wich is a legit company from Bangkok .

About high blood pressure I had the same problem and I strongly suggest you to control your b.p. daily. Try to avoid salt as much as you can, drink a lot of water and increase your cardio wich I believe still remains the best way to decrease HBP. (together with a ACE inihibitor therapy).

Another important blood test that anyone on HRT should do is hematocrit (HCT) and Hemoglobin.

One of the side effect of any hormone (Testo included) is the increase in red blood cells leading to thicken the blood.. The more viscous the blood, the harder the heart must work to move it around...This is a very dangerous issue....HRT and Hemoglobin are part of CBC Complete blood count , very cheap test that any good clinic can do .

Cheers.

[inbangkok]

Quick Q for those who inject: Once an an ampoule is opened you can't use half and keep half - even in the fridge? i.e not sterile. I think I know the answer to this. it seems there are bottles (10ml?) that are designed for multiple shots taken from it but don't know if have here.

Was thinking of 2x SubQ/week using Testoviron Depot injectable steroid: amp per unit (250 mg/ml). BUT each dose is half ampoule.

Reason for wanting 2x SubQ of 1/2 250mg is to avoid overshoot as It seems it is overshoot above normal range that causes high estradiol conversion (also want stable levels). My concern here is prostate enlargement, which it seems estradiol plays a part in far more than DHT as is the classic theory. Also if can reduce estradiol conversion less of other sides maybe. Aramidex, SERM such as clomiphene and also Mesterolone are options to control I know.

You cannot keep the open vial in the fridge. That will become contaminated very quickly. What you can do is draw the remaining amount into another syringe and cap it with a new needle and use it later. In other words, just fill both of your syringes at once and use ones at a later time. Many people do this. It should be fine, as many medications even come pre-loaded in syringes.

[inbangkok]

I was talking about Bangkok clinics, here all the samples go to the lab i mentioned. I did not know this at first and I went all the way to that lab to do tests. They told me that they collect all the samples from all the labs around BKK and test them in the lab. So later I just went to a clinic near my home for testing. I assume that they keep the blood cool. But your right there is always a risk especially in Thailand that rules are not followed. But as this is one lab that services loads of clinics I assume (could be wrong) that they have set up a special service for that too.

Well, I might have no idea about blood test in Pattaya clinics but certainly you are not very informed about managing blood and blood product transfer.

Any blood sample that is exposed to temperatures outside refrigeration specifications (7-8 degrees) for longer than 30 minutes will alter the parameters.That's the reason why I was suggestion the gentlemen here to do their hormonal samples in hospytals having qualified lab test or at least a trusted transport service with special vehicles equipped with very expensive cold storage compartments (wich I doubt Pattaya clinics have), able to transfer blood without altering hormonal parameters.

The water ritention I'm talking about is not related to high estrogen...It could be a cause but not the only one. Testosterone, like all the anabolic steroids, increases the amount of nitrogen , sodium and water stored in body tissues . This is one of the main cause of Hypertension and eventually stroke.

....And finally.....Testosterone enanthate has half life of 7 days ? I thought it was 2 weeks.....

Now I understand why arimidex and other smilar stuff are involved in this topic.

The water retention I was talking about was based on the estrogen and yes that is the reason why people talk about arimidex so you don't hold extra water. But as you also pointed out too low estrogen is bad too, that is why tests are needed as you correctly pointed out we don't all respond the same to medicine. Though most people who are on a dose lower as 250 mg of test a week do ok on 1/4 a tablet of arimidex every day.

I read the half-life was 7-9 days still long, there are other versions like propionate that has a half life of 2-3 days.. but that is too short if you only want to inject once a week.

Anyway anyone on HRT should really read up about it and know what they are getting into and they should do blood tests.

Thank you for telling me about the nitrogen, I did not know that. I thought all water retention from steroids was estrogen based.

I do know that I test my blood pressure too especially when I am taking creatine too because too much water retention is bad for you for the reasons you mentioned before.

I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about Pattaya Clinics....Since you are in Bangkok situation is different of course.

I did testosterone test in Bumrungrand several times....Never been disappointed...All the time I was on testo, blood test shows low FSH and LH ( temporary testicle shut down) and medium/high free testosterone levels. So my conclusion is that Bumrungrand lab is quite accurate and true.

The enanthate (testoviron 250) seems to be more popular in Europe , prescription dosage is 250 mg. every 3 or 4 weeks. In America testosterone cypionate is mostly used instead with a prescription dosage of 200 mg. a week or 10 days . It seems that cypionate has a shorter half-life than enanthate (not like propionate anyway).

In Thailand the Bayer-Shering group has factories so it's easy to find real enanthate in any pharmacy here while propionate and cypionate are both made by T P Drug (Cypionax - Testolic) wich is a legit company from Bangkok .

About high blood pressure I had the same problem and I strongly suggest you to control your b.p. daily. Try to avoid salt as much as you can, drink a lot of water and increase your cardio wich I believe still remains the best way to decrease HBP. (together with a ACE inihibitor therapy).

Another important blood test that anyone on HRT should do is hematocrit (HCT) and Hemoglobin.

One of the side effect of any hormone (Testo included) is the increase in red blood cells leading to thicken the blood.. The more viscous the blood, the harder the heart must work to move it around...This is a very dangerous issue....HRT and Hemoglobin are part of CBC Complete blood count , very cheap test that any good clinic can do .

Cheers.

We don't really use Test Enanthate in the US. However, that has nothing to do with the weekly injection protocol. When knowledgeable Drs in the US do prescribe Test Enanthate, it is still on a weekly basis.

[jonnyramone]

We don't really use Test Enanthate in the US. However, that has nothing to do with the weekly injection protocol. When knowledgeable Drs in the US do prescribe Test Enanthate, it is still on a weekly basis.

The reason why in US dosages are quite higher than Europe/UK and antiaging therapy is more popular, is because american society is more competitve than european. In Europe the socialist governments want everybody weak and submissive hoping for a government job...(of course this my very arguable opinion).

Antiaging therapy was born in US , recently it has spread in Europe. In US endos begin to prescribe testo to 30 years old men looking to be stronger, bigger and sexually active . No way you will find and endochrinologist in Europe/UK willing to prescribe Testosterone to a 30 years old guy unless he has some serious hormonal disease (hypogonadism, etc.etc.).

[jonnyramone]

Quick Q for those who inject: Once an an ampoule is opened you can't use half and keep half - even in the fridge? i.e not sterile. I think I know the answer to this. it seems there are bottles (10ml?) that are designed for multiple shots taken from it but don't know if have here.

Was thinking of 2x SubQ/week using Testoviron Depot injectable steroid: amp per unit (250 mg/ml). BUT each dose is half ampoule.

Reason for wanting 2x SubQ of 1/2 250mg is to avoid overshoot as It seems it is overshoot above normal range that causes high estradiol conversion (also want stable levels). My concern here is prostate enlargement, which it seems estradiol plays a part in far more than DHT as is the classic theory. Also if can reduce estradiol conversion less of other sides maybe. Aramidex, SERM such as clomiphene and also Mesterolone are options to control I know.

Problem of Proviron is that it's a DHT derivates...That's the reason why prov. is good to lower estrogen in the body. DHT derivates cannot be converted in estrogen , this is the reason why bodybuilders love them before competitions. So if you mind about prostate issue, stay away from Proviron and/or any DHT derivates.

Edited May 10, 2016 by jonnyramone

[mokwit]

another quick Q:

Needle sizes - 24-maybe even 30 gauge 1" for subQ or 1 1/2" 24 gauge for Intramuscular? (also - maybe 18 Gauge for drawing from vial,)

Syringe sizes for 1/2 ml and 1 ml of T - I would have thought use larger by a factor of at least 4 i.e. 2ml and 4ml respectively? ( as the dose would be 1/4 of the barrel therfore easier to press the plunger a shorter distance.?)

Also location/contact details at Bumrungrad for full blood panel would be helpful.

TIA

Edited May 10, 2016 by mokwit

[oxo1947]

LONG TERM Testosterone Therapy Safety Reaffirmed---PUBLIC RELEASE DATE: 25-Nov-2014

New study in The Journal of Urology analyzed results from three independent registries, 17 years with a median follow-up of approximately 5 years

Although there is no evidence that T therapy increases the risk of prostate cancer (PCa), there were still concerns and a paucity of long-term data. In a new study in The Journal of Urology®, investigators examined three parallel, prospective, ongoing, cumulative registry studies of over 1,000 men. Their analysis showed that long-term T therapy in hypogonadal men is safe and does not increase the risk of PCa.

This report will be released next week, but link to the full report below.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-11/ehs-ltt112514.php

The above that was posted here some time ago-is well worth the read, done in Germany it is the first/only long term Testosterone study-17 years, and as printed there .----quote

Their analysis showed that long-term T therapy in hypogonadal men is safe and does not increase the risk of PCa.

I am nearly 70 & have been taking it on & off for over 16 years-----below is an American Doctor who works for the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine (A4M)--and who obviously recommends what he takes ---Testo

It not photo shopped I have met him at an anti ageing seminar in Oz---but it should be pointed out, you wont get a physique like that just by injecting oneself---it takes a lot of hard work also, but at least you will have more energy .

PS they wont let me post Photo....shows him from the age of 57------ fat ....to age of 74-----fit

Edited May 10, 2016 by oxo1947

[jonnyramone]

another quick Q:

Needle sizes - 24-maybe even 30 gauge 1" for subQ or 1 1/2" 24 gauge for Intramuscular? (also - maybe 18 Gauge for drawing from vial,)

Syringe sizes for 1/2 ml and 1 ml of T - I would have thought use larger by a factor of at least 4 i.e. 2ml and 4ml respectively? ( as the dose would be 1/4 of the barrel therfore easier to press the plunger a shorter distance.?)

Also location/contact details at Bumrungrad for full blood panel would be helpful.

TIA

Bumrungrand location is very easy. It's near Nana area. Going from Nana Hotel you cross the road at the Traffic light near the Police Box and keep going straight for the opposite road where Grace Hotel is located. Bumrungrand is near Pakistan Embassy and almost in front of Grace Hotel. Once in Nana it's very easy to find it anyway, there are signals.

[inbangkok]

We don't really use Test Enanthate in the US. However, that has nothing to do with the weekly injection protocol. When knowledgeable Drs in the US do prescribe Test Enanthate, it is still on a weekly basis.

The reason why in US dosages are quite higher than Europe/UK and antiaging therapy is more popular, is because american society is more competitve than european. In Europe the socialist governments want everybody weak and submissive hoping for a government job...(of course this my very arguable opinion).

Antiaging therapy was born in US , recently it has spread in Europe. In US endos begin to prescribe testo to 30 years old men looking to be stronger, bigger and sexually active . No way you will find and endochrinologist in Europe/UK willing to prescribe Testosterone to a 30 years old guy unless he has some serious hormonal disease (hypogonadism, etc.etc.).

While we do have anti aging clinics, they are insanely expensive and therefore quite exclusive. There is absolutely no standard Dr. in the USA prescribing Testosterone to a 30 year old because he want to be bigger, stronger, etc. The DEA keeps a very close eye on these prescriptions and many Dr.s don't want to deal with it. Remember, Testosterone and other steroids are completely illegal in the USA without a prescription. Even in the UK, there is no law against possession of steroids for personal use. Testosterone and other steroids have a very negative stigma attached to them in the USA. Not nearly as many men are utilizing TRT as you may think.

[inbangkok]

another quick Q:

Needle sizes - 24-maybe even 30 gauge 1" for subQ or 1 1/2" 24 gauge for Intramuscular? (also - maybe 18 Gauge for drawing from vial,)

Syringe sizes for 1/2 ml and 1 ml of T - I would have thought use larger by a factor of at least 4 i.e. 2ml and 4ml respectively? ( as the dose would be 1/4 of the barrel therfore easier to press the plunger a shorter distance.?)

Also location/contact details at Bumrungrad for full blood panel would be helpful.

TIA

22 or 23 gauge needles, 1 inch in length are fine for glute injections if you are not overweight or carrying too much fat in that area. 3ml syringes are fine. I only inject in my glutes so I cannot comment on other areas.

Be prepared to pay an obscene price at Bumrungrad. I use the hospital frequently, but never for simple blood tests like this.

Edited May 10, 2016 by inbangkok

[inbangkok]

LONG TERM Testosterone Therapy Safety Reaffirmed---PUBLIC RELEASE DATE: 25-Nov-2014

New study in The Journal of Urology analyzed results from three independent registries, 17 years with a median follow-up of approximately 5 years

Although there is no evidence that T therapy increases the risk of prostate cancer (PCa), there were still concerns and a paucity of long-term data. In a new study in The Journal of Urology®, investigators examined three parallel, prospective, ongoing, cumulative registry studies of over 1,000 men. Their analysis showed that long-term T therapy in hypogonadal men is safe and does not increase the risk of PCa.

This report will be released next week, but link to the full report below.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-11/ehs-ltt112514.php

The above that was posted here some time ago-is well worth the read, done in Germany it is the first/only long term Testosterone study-17 years, and as printed there .----quote

Their analysis showed that long-term T therapy in hypogonadal men is safe and does not increase the risk of PCa.

I am nearly 70 & have been taking it on & off for over 16 years-----below is an American Doctor who works for the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine (A4M)--and who obviously recommends what he takes ---Testo

It not photo shopped I have met him at an anti ageing seminar in Oz---but it should be pointed out, you wont get a physique like that just by injecting oneself---it takes a lot of hard work also, but at least you will have more energy .

PS they wont let me post Photo....shows him from the age of 57------ fat ....to age of 74-----fit

Dr. Jeffry Life ?

If so, the cost of the hormones at a clinic like his are far out of reach for the vast majority of people. We are talking 6-7 thousand dollars a year. Also, genetics plays a huge role in looking like that at 74. Not everyone can do it.

[jonnyramone]

While we do have anti aging clinics, they are insanely expensive and therefore quite exclusive. There is absolutely no standard Dr. in the USA prescribing Testosterone to a 30 year old because he want to be bigger, stronger, etc. The DEA keeps a very close eye on these prescriptions and many Dr.s don't want to deal with it. Remember, Testosterone and other steroids are completely illegal in the USA without a prescription. Even in the UK, there is no law against possession of steroids for personal use. Testosterone and other steroids have a very negative stigma attached to them in the USA. Not nearly as many men are utilizing TRT as you may think.

In Europe we don't have antiaging clinics and endos are very reluctant to prescribe Testo.

About laws in US I guess any State got different rules. In California is very easy to find Endos willing to prescribe both Testo and Growth. I was in LA last year, and I saw it with my own eyes.

You just need a blood sample proving your test level is under the norm and no problem at all.

You go to any doctor in Europe with your "less than zero" testo level and he will start talking about zinc , tribulus , and stop exercise.

[inbangkok]

While we do have anti aging clinics, they are insanely expensive and therefore quite exclusive. There is absolutely no standard Dr. in the USA prescribing Testosterone to a 30 year old because he want to be bigger, stronger, etc. The DEA keeps a very close eye on these prescriptions and many Dr.s don't want to deal with it. Remember, Testosterone and other steroids are completely illegal in the USA without a prescription. Even in the UK, there is no law against possession of steroids for personal use. Testosterone and other steroids have a very negative stigma attached to them in the USA. Not nearly as many men are utilizing TRT as you may think.

In Europe we don't have antiaging clinics and endos are very reluctant to prescribe Testo.

About laws in US I guess any State got different rules. In California is very easy to find Endos willing to prescribe both Testo and Growth. I was in LA last year, and I saw it with my own eyes.

You just need a blood sample proving your test level is under the norm and no problem at all.

You go to any doctor in Europe with your "less than zero" testo level and he will start talking about zinc , tribulus , and stop exercise.

No, medication is not regulated by state. Testosterone is a Schedule 3 drug. The feds schedule medication, not states. If your blood levels show you have low T, you don't need an anti aging clinic as a general Dr. will generally prescribe it for you. What we were talking about was the idea of Dr.s prescribing it to young and healthy guys because they want to have bigger muscles and better sex......most Dr.s will not do this despite what you have heard. Obviously some at anti aging clinics might if you pay for it.

Growth hormone is roughly $500 a month in the US. Not many people can afford this.

[jonnyramone]

No, medication is not regulated by state. Testosterone is a Schedule 3 drug. The feds schedule medication, not states. If your blood levels show you have low T, you don't need an anti aging clinic as a general Dr. will generally prescribe it for you. What we were talking about was the idea of Dr.s prescribing it to young and healthy guys because they want to have bigger muscles and better sex......most Dr.s will not do this despite what you have heard. Obviously some at anti aging clinics might if you pay for it.

Growth hormone is roughly $500 a month in the US. Not many people can afford this.

Healthy guys can get steroids on black market just like in Europe, but what I'm trying to say is that in your country is much easier find a doctor prescribing a testo / GH therapy than Europe/UK.

In Europe the antiaging therapy is mostly related to herbal supplements, vitamins and lifestyle changing. Testosterone is considered last option and just in some very few cases.

In US , you don't need to be over 60 to get Testo shot from your doctor..., if you 30 proving your testo level is under the norm, you get prescription....There are many legit antiaging clinics in South California where anyone over 30 can go and get his prescription easily. You just need blood work and some cash.

[mokwit]

another quick Q:

Needle sizes - 24-maybe even 30 gauge 1" for subQ or 1 1/2" 24 gauge for Intramuscular? (also - maybe 18 Gauge for drawing from vial,)

Syringe sizes for 1/2 ml and 1 ml of T - I would have thought use larger by a factor of at least 4 i.e. 2ml and 4ml respectively? ( as the dose would be 1/4 of the barrel therfore easier to press the plunger a shorter distance.?)

Also location/contact details at Bumrungrad for full blood panel would be helpful.

TIA

Bumrungrand location is very easy. It's near Nana area. Going from Nana Hotel you cross the road at the Traffic light near the Police Box and keep going straight for the opposite road where Grace Hotel is located. Bumrungrand is near Pakistan Embassy and almost in front of Grace Hotel. Once in Nana it's very easy to find it anyway, there are signals.

jonnyramone Many thanks for your detailed directions - much appreciated, but I can actually see Bumrungrad from my window* - I was thinking more in terms of department, Dr, clinic location for blood tests - don't fancy explaining what I want to receptionist at main entrance.

* looks like a large cash register or is that my imagination.

Edited May 11, 2016 by mokwit

[robblok]

another quick Q:

Needle sizes - 24-maybe even 30 gauge 1" for subQ or 1 1/2" 24 gauge for Intramuscular? (also - maybe 18 Gauge for drawing from vial,)

Syringe sizes for 1/2 ml and 1 ml of T - I would have thought use larger by a factor of at least 4 i.e. 2ml and 4ml respectively? ( as the dose would be 1/4 of the barrel therfore easier to press the plunger a shorter distance.?)

Also location/contact details at Bumrungrad for full blood panel would be helpful.

TIA

22 or 23 gauge needles, 1 inch in length are fine for glute injections if you are not overweight or carrying too much fat in that area. 3ml syringes are fine. I only inject in my glutes so I cannot comment on other areas.

Be prepared to pay an obscene price at Bumrungrad. I use the hospital frequently, but never for simple blood tests like this.

18 gauge for sucking up.. then change to 23 gauge for injecting (the sucking can dull the needle and a dull needle is not a good thing once you inject). That is what I did with vials anyway. I have never noticed difference between the syringe size.. but when you inject do it slow. Many video's about injecting but I would do it first with someone who knows what he / she is doing.

[bkk6060]

No, medication is not regulated by state. Testosterone is a Schedule 3 drug. The feds schedule medication, not states. If your blood levels show you have low T, you don't need an anti aging clinic as a general Dr. will generally prescribe it for you. What we were talking about was the idea of Dr.s prescribing it to young and healthy guys because they want to have bigger muscles and better sex......most Dr.s will not do this despite what you have heard. Obviously some at anti aging clinics might if you pay for it.

Growth hormone is roughly $500 a month in the US. Not many people can afford this.

Healthy guys can get steroids on black market just like in Europe, but what I'm trying to say is that in your country is much easier find a doctor prescribing a testo / GH therapy than Europe/UK.

In Europe the antiaging therapy is mostly related to herbal supplements, vitamins and lifestyle changing. Testosterone is considered last option and just in some very few cases.

In US , you don't need to be over 60 to get Testo shot from your doctor..., if you 30 proving your testo level is under the norm, you get prescription....There are many legit antiaging clinics in South California where anyone over 30 can go and get his prescription easily. You just need blood work and some cash.

You are right abou the USA on this. There are numerous clinics and Ads about anti-aging and T. Insurance tradtionally convered it if you had low T. I was on the Gel and the list price was about $500 a bottle (one month) . My insurance was paying for it and my co pay was only $20!

But there are a bunch of lawsuits now from people that have had strokes, heart attacks, gotten cancer, etc. Insurance companies are asking for much more information/broader blood testing if one deems to go through them.

Which is stupid I think since many of these men were probably old anyway, so who knows if the T causes it.

But, anyone will sue for anything in the USA.

I am glad I am in Thailand and can just buy it very inexpensive over the counter and inject myself. Also, like others have said the Gel is available here ( I have seen it in packets and also the squirt bottle), but runs about $100 for a month supplies last I checked. Still better if you are out of pocket in the USA.

[oxo1947]

Dr. Jeffry Life ? If so, the cost of the hormones at a clinic like his are far out of reach for the vast majority of people. We are talking 6-7 thousand dollars a year. Also, genetics plays a huge role in looking like that at 74. Not everyone can do it.----inbangkok

Yes inbankok & I am not in anyway suggesting that anyone (I certainly don't) join up or pay the over the top prices that they charge---- but the info is good, the E-mag is free (although they are pushing their product in it) ----anything they have can be purchased somewhere else cheaper.

Sure genetics play a role---"Not everyone can do it." -----no not everyone has the time comitment etc to do it----however I think that every one can improve on what they have at the moment----but if you want to have a look at what he looked like when he was 10 years younger........

http://www.motleyhealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Jeffry-Life.jpg

Once again as inbangkok has stated....his products are way over priced---dont buy from them----however its good to see what is being taken, then source it.

[inbangkok]

Dr. Jeffry Life ? If so, the cost of the hormones at a clinic like his are far out of reach for the vast majority of people. We are talking 6-7 thousand dollars a year. Also, genetics plays a huge role in looking like that at 74. Not everyone can do it.----inbangkok

Yes inbankok & I am not in anyway suggesting that anyone (I certainly don't) join up or pay the over the top prices that they charge---- but the info is good, the E-mag is free (although they are pushing their product in it) ----anything they have can be purchased somewhere else cheaper.

Sure genetics play a role---"Not everyone can do it." -----no not everyone has the time comitment etc to do it----however I think that every one can improve on what they have at the moment----but if you want to have a look at what he looked like when he was 10 years younger........

http://www.motleyhealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Jeffry-Life.jpg

Once again as inbangkok has stated....his products are way over priced---dont buy from them----however its good to see what is being taken, then source it.

Its not just his clinic. From my understanding, $500 a month for HGH is pretty standard in the USA and it is not possible to get it covered by insurance unless you have an actual deficiency.

I agree, everyone can look better, but genetics play a huge role. I could go on the exact same diet, training, sleep, and drug regimen a professional body builder uses, but I will never end up looking like they do. Its not just about commitment. Obviously it takes a lot of time and effort, but different people have different genetic maximums they can achieve (even with drugs).